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Vanity: Let Cool Heads Prevail

Posted on 11/07/2009 7:07:40 PM PST by Patriot2A

My dear Conservatives:

Tonight, as I sit at home sipping some vodka, trying to kill the pain caused by 20 years of wear and tear on my body courtesy of the U.S. Navy, I am watching the debate leading to the vote on Pelosi-care health reform bill. As many of you, I am livid, pissed off, mad and frustrated at the arrogance of our elected officials and their attempts to -once more- subvert the Constitution, impose yet another Federal mandate on the States, and ignore the People's will. I have read some calls to action from people on this forum that, taken out of context, can be used against us, true Conservatives, at a later time. Remember that what you post online today, will remain online forever.

I urge all of us to be patient, let the system work and let your representatives vote according to their conscience(s). If this bill passes, and once it gets signed by the President, we will most likely see that legal challenges to the bill will make it all the way to the SCOTUS. IF and WHEN SCOTUS decides on the constitutionality of this government takeover of 1/6th of the US economy -and we are forced to heed by newly created law by Congress- THEN we can take action AS PROVIDED by the CONSTITUTION in the form of redress, civil disobedience and other tactics.

I am as (or more) passionate about this matter than any of you. I am impatient by nature, and I am pissed off. But we need to measure our words, control our impulses and focus our efforts. WE are BETTER than that! Let the liberals and the fringe left fight it out and make fools of themselves.

Let's be wise, wait for the right moment, choose the time, the place and the method of action...

America is already engaged in an uncivil war of ideas, thanks to class warfare, identity politics, race-baiting and a failing public-education system, courtesy of progressive policies of the last 100 years. So far, the battle has been fought on the lamestream media and the internet. We have taken to the streets by the hundreds of thousands in the form of Tea Parties, townhall meetings, etc.

May God help our Republic if this war ever goes kinetic. The repercussions would be unthinkable and the cost in lives and treasure would be disastrous. Let's not give the libs a reason to pigeonhole us into a category of extremists because of one of our fine-members' visceral (albeit well intended) comments.

But then again, maybe it is time to thin the herd...and renew the tree of liberty.

God bless America and may God bless all of you.


TOPICS: Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS: constitution; health; obama; pelosi
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To: Patriot2A

You’re right of course. Just spewing emotion isn’t going to help do what needs to be done. I used to react to liberals writing letters to the editor and such, but lately I’ve started to welcome them, since they are so vitriolic and obviously biased I know they are not convincing anyone of anything. In fact, I’m happy to see barking moonbats become the public face of the left. We need to learn from their (bad) example and as you say, hold our fire until the time and place is right. The sleeping giant has been wakened, and never again will we allow the RINOs and appeasers to accept the reigns of leadership without being held accountable.


51 posted on 11/07/2009 7:52:52 PM PST by bigbob
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To: Patriot2A

No. Following that playbook is HOW WE GOT IN THE SORRY ASS SHAPE WE ARE IN...


52 posted on 11/07/2009 7:57:20 PM PST by Dead Corpse (III)
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To: Walvoord; All

Exactly, the battle is not over until the final vote.. I don’t know if they have the final votes in the Senate cause I think there are a few Rats up for reelection and Joe Liberman said he won’t support it. Plus it has to go through conference.. So hang in there folks don’t give up..


53 posted on 11/07/2009 8:03:00 PM PST by KevinDavis (Can't Stop the Signal!)
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To: Dead Corpse

understand and respect your position..but we all have a responsibility to act lawfully...and the situation right not does not warrant act of subversion or sedition...not yet anyway...


54 posted on 11/07/2009 8:07:27 PM PST by Patriot2A (jihad)
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To: Patriot2A

Wise words Patriot. I’m with you. Let’s just hope THEY don’t act to cut off or short circuit our “Constitutional” rights to redress of grievances, etc... That would be — precipitous...


55 posted on 11/07/2009 8:08:24 PM PST by patriot preacher (To be a good American Citizen and a Christian IS NOT a contradiction. (www.mygration.blogspot.com))
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To: Patriot2A

HOUSE PASSED THE BILL!!!!


56 posted on 11/07/2009 8:09:50 PM PST by Patriot2A (jihad)
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To: Patriot2A

Those that ignore the Constitution have been working their will for at least 2 full generations.

The time for patience to have ended was long ago. The system is broken and has been for far too long.

And, regardless of this particular issue plaguing us now, or not, the Long Marchers still infest our education industry, our politics, our media and “cultural icons”.

Even if this bill gets beaten, it and others like it or worse, will be back, again, and again, and again, and again, as sure as the tides.

And the patient will slowly transit over to the owned.


57 posted on 11/07/2009 8:14:44 PM PST by Grimmy (equivocation is but the first step along the road to capitulation)
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To: Dead Corpse
It's human nature to wait...and hope one’s fellow Americans will wake up and save us. Or a white knight to save us, or even a court. When was the last time the courts saved us???? And who is going to spend decades in court over healthcare legislation? Would Republicans repeal this mess? Hell no, or they will be taking away someones healthcare.

Utter nonsense of course, it will only get worse, and we will lose more patriots everyday.

Hell, what is the % of the population not living off government, or employed by government now?

And how many of those just want their football and American Idol?

No, it is now or never.

58 posted on 11/07/2009 8:15:17 PM PST by roses of sharon (Call the NFL and welcome their new Commissioner, Al Sharpton.)
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To: roses of sharon

so what are you prepared to do><?


59 posted on 11/07/2009 8:26:11 PM PST by Patriot2A (jihad)
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To: KevinDavis

Those of you who think that this will die in Senate don’t understand what has been sacrificed tonight. The Dems have insured that America will be socialist. It was a huge leftest victory.

There is no promise or law they won’t break to finish the deal.

If they have to use the “nuclear option”, they will. There is nothing they won’t sacrifice to finish this.


60 posted on 11/07/2009 8:26:35 PM PST by roses of sharon (Call the NFL and welcome their new Commissioner, Al Sharpton.)
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To: Patriot2A

Sitting back and waiting for someone else to do something is exactly why we are facing this blatant act of war!


61 posted on 11/07/2009 8:27:58 PM PST by CodeToad (If it weren't for physics and law enforcement I'd be unstoppable!)
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To: roses of sharon

“Did you really think that we want those laws to be observed?” said Dr. Ferris. “We want them broken.... We’re after power and we mean it.... There’s no way to rule innocent men. The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren’t enough criminals, one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws. Who wants a nation of law-abiding citizens? What’s there in that for anyone? But just pass the kind of laws that can neither be observed nor enforced nor objectively interpreted - and you create a nation of law-breakers - and then you cash in on guilt. Now, that’s the system, Mr. Rearden, that’s the game, and once you understand it, you’ll be much easier to deal with.”

Dr. Ferris talking to Hank Rearden
Beginning on page 411 of the 35th Anniversary Edition of Atlas Shrugged:


62 posted on 11/07/2009 8:28:54 PM PST by Patriot2A (jihad)
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To: Sir Beowolf

LOL...........

the 2nd and 10th amendments are our last hope.


63 posted on 11/07/2009 8:29:04 PM PST by teg_76
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To: CodeToad

I am not waiting on someone else...just the right time...and this process will carry out weeks and months before becoming law...


64 posted on 11/07/2009 8:30:56 PM PST by Patriot2A (jihad)
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To: roses of sharon

I’m just depressed. Horribly depressed.

We have a large majority of Americans on entitlements, not working.
Blacks overwhelmingly and Hispanics will ALWAYS vote left NO MATTER WHAT.
the young are so ignorant it is pathetic.
Yes, the rest are into American Idol.
Our votes just get frauded into oblivion.

I despair and have no energy for more of this. If August didn’t get it, well, that says a whole lot. That those in Washington marching were a very very small minority.

Without an honest media, even a terrorist can take out 12 soldiers on our soil and AMERICA IS NOT UPSET.

And YOU want me to regroup and TRY again. Not likely.


65 posted on 11/07/2009 8:32:58 PM PST by Recovering Ex-hippie (Pray for Israel! And Georgia ! And the Iranian people! and Honduras!)
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To: Recovering Ex-hippie

I’m sitting here watching my career go down the toilet. I will retire if this monstrosity becomes law. Will be interesting to see how I get my kids through college, as I don’t have many other skills. I guess I’ll find out, but I will not be a government shill.....


66 posted on 11/07/2009 8:37:21 PM PST by Mom MD (Jesus is the Light of the world!)
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To: Patriot2A

“I am not waiting on someone else...just the right time...and this process will carry out weeks and months before becoming law...

I hear ya brother, but I don’t think we’ve got months, weeks, maybe, but they want to ram this down our throats now.

Rule 308!


67 posted on 11/07/2009 8:39:22 PM PST by CodeToad (If it weren't for physics and law enforcement I'd be unstoppable!)
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To: Patriot2A

A wise post. In fact the extreme closeness of the vote is good news: the House was always the more eager of the two bodies of pass a socialized medicine bill; that it gained only 3 votes more than were absolutely necessary to pass is a good sign for the upcoming vote in the Senate.


68 posted on 11/07/2009 8:43:14 PM PST by Heatseeker (Elizabeth Cheney for President)
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To: Patriot2A
I'm not one who swears, but I've been nagged all evening by the word, "BA$TARDS".

Just won't stop ringing in my head...

69 posted on 11/07/2009 8:45:18 PM PST by thecraw (God allows evil...God allowed Hussein...Lord willing he'll give us Sarah to clean up the huge mess.)
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To: Patriot2A

I have been thinking about what the Democrats did tonight. I have never been so mad in all my life for them passing this but I am actually glad they did pass this HC legislation. Let me explain. The American electorate has been in a drunken stupor for so long. We have what we have in office because nobody is feeling any discomfort.

After the American people see what was passed and what it will do for their quality of life, it will finally get people to act because they will see their quality of life plummet. The Democrats have no idea what hit them last Tuesday and they will have no idea what will hit them in November of 2010. This is their attack on Pearl Harbor and you know what happened to Japan after this act.

They are so arrogant and blind that they think this is a victory for the left and their power. This vote was the beginning of the end for the left and the Democrats. We need to continue to pray, fight and act. We will prevail. We will takeover again this gov’t “for and by the people.”


70 posted on 11/07/2009 8:46:30 PM PST by truthandlife ("Some trust in chariots and some in horses, but we trust in the name of the LORD our God." (Ps 20:7))
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To: Recovering Ex-hippie

I am Hispanic, but white and I vote republican, because I am a conservative...never loose hope...


71 posted on 11/07/2009 8:50:22 PM PST by Patriot2A (jihad)
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To: Patriot2A
We do have a responsibility to act within the law... Starting with those who MAKE the laws.

They violate the Constitution this badly? All bets are off.

72 posted on 11/07/2009 8:54:36 PM PST by Dead Corpse (III)
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To: truthandlife

The American people saw tonight that their voices and concerns did not matter to the democrat party. IMHO- those that voted for the dems and the DIC, (dummy in chief) have learned the hard way and will not make the same mistake twice.


73 posted on 11/07/2009 9:07:27 PM PST by VairyAngel (FORT HOOD WAS ATTACKED BY A JIHADI TERRORIST. STOP EXCUSING SUICIDAL KILLERS.)
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To: Dead Corpse
We have no Constitution, they don't follow it, why should we?

They use it to keep us placid, they give us gov cks to make us slaves.

74 posted on 11/07/2009 9:07:47 PM PST by roses of sharon (Call the NFL and welcome their new Commissioner, Al Sharpton.)
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To: bigbob

(from another forum)

I’m from Canada, and I wish more people in America realized that this is a 1776 moment in American history. Once you get socialized medicine, you are a socialist country, period, end of story, full stop, because the government will use their control over your very life and health to jam through other socialist programs. And you can never, ever, ever roll socialized medicine back, just as with any other large entitlement backed by angry voters. SSI, anyone?
This is it, the end game. Talk all you want about 2010, renewing the Republican party with real conservatives, whatever you want. Once socialized medicine is in place, Thomas Jefferson as President with the Senate filled with the Founding Fathers couldn’t do a damned thing.
If they go nuclear in the Senate with this, the best we can ever hope for in the future is having some minor conservative influence over the new America of Socialist Republics, run by unions and government workers.
The only remote hope I see is secession, but these days with all the economic interconnections, that is probably impossible.
At least I got to enjoy 17 years of freedom from socialism before it caught up with me again. My thanks to the America that was.

Posted by: Flubber at November 07, 2009 11:34 PM (VL5if)


75 posted on 11/07/2009 9:08:44 PM PST by roses of sharon (Call the NFL and welcome their new Commissioner, Al Sharpton.)
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To: Patriot2A

I enjoyed reading your post. Yes, I agree, but the time and place is next year, 2010, on election day. I do not know everything that is in this health care bill. I do not think anyone knows. From what I have read, this bill will hurt senior citizens, harm the economy (what little we have left), and leave many no choice but to accept the public option. I guess Pelosi and her co-horts feel the passage of this bill will shut us up. I pray no one will shut up. If ever there was a time for all of us to come together as a more organized group, it is now. We can work together on the internet, but it is now time to start more organized chapters of Freepers and meet and plan. What say you?


76 posted on 11/07/2009 9:15:23 PM PST by southernmomma
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To: southernmomma

oday, Ranking Member of the House Ways and Means Committee Dave Camp (R-MI) released a letter from the non-partisan Joint Committee on Taxation (JCT) confirming that the failure to comply with the individual mandate to buy health insurance contained in the Pelosi health care bill (H.R. 3962, as amended) could land people in jail. The JCT letter [2] makes clear that Americans who do not maintain “acceptable health insurance coverage” and who choose not to pay the bill’s new individual mandate tax (generally 2.5% of income), are subject to numerous civil and criminal penalties, including criminal fines of up to $250,000 and imprisonment of up to five years.

n response to the JCT letter, Camp said: “This is the ultimate example of the Democrats’ command-and-control style of governing – buy what we tell you or go to jail. It is outrageous and it should be stopped immediately.”

Key excerpts from the JCT letter appear below:

“H.R. 3962 provides that an individual (or a husband and wife in the case of a joint return) who does not, at any time during the taxable year, maintain acceptable health insurance coverage for himself or herself and each of his or her qualifying children is subject to an additional tax.” [page 1]
- – - – - – - – - –

“If the government determines that the taxpayer’s unpaid tax liability results from willful behavior, the following penalties could apply…” [page 2]
- – - – - – - – - -

“Criminal penalties

Prosecution is authorized under the Code for a variety of offenses. Depending on the level of the noncompliance, the following penalties could apply to an individual:

• Section 7203 – misdemeanor willful failure to pay is punishable by a fine of up to $25,000 and/or imprisonment of up to one year.

• Section 7201 – felony willful evasion is punishable by a fine of up to $250,000 and/or imprisonment of up to five years.” [page 3]

When confronted with this same issue during its consideration of a similar individual mandate tax, the Senate Finance Committee worked on a bipartisan basis to include language in its bill that shielded Americans from civil and criminal penalties. The Pelosi bill, however, contains no similar language protecting American citizens from civil and criminal tax penalties that could include a $250,000 fine and five years in jail.

“The Senate Finance Committee had the good sense to eliminate the extreme penalty of incarceration. Speaker Pelosi’s decision to leave in the jail time provision is a threat to every family who cannot afford the $15,000 premium her plan creates. Fortunately, Republicans have an alternative that will lower health insurance costs without raising taxes or cutting Medicare,” said Camp.


77 posted on 11/07/2009 9:17:49 PM PST by Patriot2A (jihad)
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To: Patriot2A
yeap, after the courts don't take the case.
I think the conservative states like Texas need to say no we are not doing this using the 10th amendment and the 10th amendment resolution as there means to say screw this....
78 posted on 11/07/2009 9:29:22 PM PST by Steve Van Doorn (*in my best Eric cartman voice* 'I love you guys')
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To: southernmomma

Once something like this passes it is damb well near imposable to go back.


79 posted on 11/07/2009 9:36:03 PM PST by Steve Van Doorn (*in my best Eric cartman voice* 'I love you guys')
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To: Patriot2A

Thank you for the reply. I appreciate the info. I still say we have to come together as a more organized group and work together with other like-minded groups.


80 posted on 11/07/2009 9:36:06 PM PST by southernmomma
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To: roses of sharon
Worse. They give us the illusion that we can change things. That we can still rectify things by using THEIR system and THEIR rules.

Anyone else notice how well that's working these days?

81 posted on 11/07/2009 9:51:21 PM PST by Dead Corpse (III)
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To: Patriot2A
These sorts of seditionist activities have been attempted before, here is ample historical perspective.

"A nation can survive its fools and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and he carries his banners openly against the city. But the traitor moves among those within the gates freely, his sly whispers rustling through all alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears no traitor; he speaks in the accents familiar to his victim, and he wears their face and their garments and he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation; he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of a city; he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murderer is less to be feared. The traitor is the plague." - Marcus Tullius Cicero, Roman Orator --- 106-43 B.C.

"Moderation in principle is always a vice." "Society in every state is a blessing, but government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil." --Tom Paine.

"Government is not the solution, it's the problem." --Ronald Reagan.

"Congress has not unlimited powers to provide for the general welfare but only those specifically enumerated." --Thomas Jefferson.

"Charity is no part of the legislative duty of the government." --James Madison.

"Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves."
-- William Pitt

"I find no warrant for such an appropriation in the Constitution, and I do not believe that the power and the duty of the General Government ought to be extended to the relief of individual suffering which is in no manner properly related to the public service or benefit... The friendliness and charity of our countrymen can always be relied upon to relieve their fellow citizens in misfortune. This has been repeatedly and quite lately demonstrated. Federal aid in such cases encourages the expectation of paternal care on the part of the Government and weakens the sturdiness of our national character, while it prevents the indulgence among our people of that kindly sentiment and conduct which strengthens the bonds of a common brotherhood." —President Grover Cleveland

"The strength of the Constitution lies entirely in the determination of each citizen to defend it. Only if every single citizen feels duty bound to do his share in this defense are the constitutional rights secure." -- Albert Einstein

"The only purpose for which power can be rightfully exercised over any member of a civilized community, against his will, is to prevent harm to others. His own good, either physical or moral, is not a sufficient warrant." -- John Stuart Mill, "On Liberty" 1859

"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their consciences." C.S. Lewis

"The powers delegated by the proposed Constitution to the federal government are few and defined [and] will be exercised principally on external objects, as war, peace, negotiation and foreign commerce."
--James Madison, Federalist Paper No. 45

"The powers delegated by the proposed Constitution to the federal government are few and defined [and] will be exercised principally on external objects, as war, peace, negotiation and foreign commerce."
--James Madison, Federalist Paper No. 45 "No one can read our Constitution without concluding that the people who wrote it wanted their government severely limited; the words 'no' and 'not' employed in restraint of government power occur 24 times in the first seven articles of the Constitution and 22 more times in the Bill of Rights."
--Edmund A. Opitz

"Society in every state is a blessing, but government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one; for when we suffer or are exposed to the same miseries by a government, which we might expect in a country without government, our calamity is heightened by reflecting that we furnish the means by which we suffer."
--Thomas Paine, Common Sense, 1776

The two enemies of the people are criminals and government, so let us tie the second down with the chains of the constitution so the second will not become the legalized version of the first.
--Thomas Jefferson Experience hath shewn, that even under the best forms [of government] those entrusted with power have, in time, and by slow operations, perverted it into tyranny.
--Thomas Jefferson

"We, the People are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts -- not to overthrow the Constitution, but to overthrow men who pervert the Constitution." -- Abraham Lincoln

"Experience should teach us to be most on our guard to protect liberty when the government's purposes are beneficient. The greatest dangers to liberty lurk in insidious encroachment by men of zeal, well-meaning but without understanding." -- Supreme Court Justice Louis Brandeis

And finally, Claire Wolf that said, "America is at an akward stage. Its too late to work within the system and too early to start shooting the bastards."!

82 posted on 11/07/2009 11:04:56 PM PST by Loyal Sedition
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To: roses of sharon

1776 was impossible too. Never lose hope. Never.


83 posted on 11/07/2009 11:38:29 PM PST by Springfield Reformer
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To: bigbob

Please. It’s game over man. The Senate will pass it and it will become law. 2010 will be too late. Nobody’s going to do a damn thing to stop it either. There will be no civil unrest or revolution or civil war. We’re screwed.


84 posted on 11/07/2009 11:44:18 PM PST by 38special (I mean come on.)
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To: roses of sharon
We have no Constitution, they don't follow it, why should we?

And they were so "in your face!" about it today on CSPAN. They were signalling very openly to us that they don't give a damn about the Constitution.

85 posted on 11/07/2009 11:47:13 PM PST by uncitizen (I'm mad as hell and i'm not gonna take it anymore!!)
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To: 38special

I take umbrance to that remark. No it is not game over. Health Care can be made more accessible via state to state offerings and tort reform. The shit that the liberals are pushing will be the end of their career.


86 posted on 11/07/2009 11:49:15 PM PST by eyedigress
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To: Patriot2A

Sorry if I lumped everybody together. I was just in such a state of shock last night.

Most Hispanics are perfect for conservatives because of their values. We have failed the illegals by not dealing with immigration reform 20 years ago.


87 posted on 11/08/2009 4:12:22 AM PST by Recovering Ex-hippie (Pray for Israel! And Georgia ! And the Iranian people! and Honduras!)
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To: uncitizen
We have no Constitution, they don't follow it, why should we?

And they were so “in your face!” about it today on CSPAN. They were signalling very openly to us that they don't give a damn about the Constitution.


It will not be much longer before they will put the internet under their control.

Comments like those on this thread will not be tolerated.

I have no idea how it is done, but we hear that Chinese and other people who live in countries that censor the news have devised ways to get news and communicate over the internet in spite of their government's attempt to censor.

We need to learn all we can about how that is done, for the day is coming when information will be controlled.

You have already seen the writings and videos of Mark Lloyd, and he is only one of many.

Without the internet, very few of us would be as informed as we are about what is happening. They know that and they will make changes.

As for the suggestions that it is time for a rebellion, remember that as has happened in so many countries, the government that replaced a bad government was frequently worse than the original.

The result of chaos is not predictable.

Also, one must think about it with cold logic. If you get mad and shoot someone, withing 24 hours you will be in prison. So what have you accomplished? One dimrat shot, one person in prison. End of story.

Can you get 10 million or even one million to step up on the same day and march, whether armed or unarmed, against the dimrats?

Not likely and it will take numbers like that for the participants to survive force and imprisonment.

Therefore, it is my belief that freedom of information is the most valuable of all tools available to us. Note that I don't say freedom of the press, as the press is no longer free. It is owned by dimrats and their fellow travelers.

It is by the internet that we will remain able to learn and communicate our beliefs and it must either remain totally uninfluenced by government or we must learn how to communicate in spite to the government.

Because it is also by the internet that we will teach others what we know.

Protect your privacy. Replace Google with IXQUICK at www.ixquick.com.

If we do not wish to lose our freedom, we must learn to tolerate our
neighbor's right to freedom even though he might express that freedom
in a manner we consider to be eccentric.

88 posted on 11/08/2009 6:13:41 AM PST by old curmudgeon
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To: Patriot2A

Dredd Scott waited for SCOTUS. And then they found he was even a full human.

It is WE THE PEOPLE who have final say over what is Constitutional and what is not.


89 posted on 11/08/2009 6:18:16 AM PST by bvw
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To: old curmudgeon

Agree with all you said. I’ve not personally committed to an armed rebellion. If i have posted anything close to that, which i don’t think i have, i must’ve been very angry at the time.

In fact, a few weeks back, i posted that our guns are not gonna do us much good when the time comes. I got called on it by one guy that i can think of, possibly two. But those people just have their heads in the sand.


90 posted on 11/08/2009 6:33:48 AM PST by uncitizen (I'm mad as hell and i'm not gonna take it anymore!!)
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