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Fort Hood Soldiers Guard the Base Entrances Without Magazines in their Weapons...
Yahoo News Photos ^ | 20091110 | Unknown

Posted on 11/10/2009 11:51:56 AM PST by nckerr

Click on the photos...This is craziness. The political correctness of the military. The Army and Marines are more trained with weapons and safety than the police. Why would they embarrass our Soldiers by making them pull guard with empty weapons...

(Excerpt) Read more at news.search.yahoo.com ...


TOPICS: News/Current Events; US: Texas
KEYWORDS: banglist; forthood; militarybase
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To: derekr44; ctdonath2
"I see foregrips on M4A1’s, but no mags."

I saved it on my HD and zoomed in. I think you're both right. It also doesn't encourage confidence in me that neither are wearing tactical vests or ammo pouches. I suppose both could have magazines in their cargo pockets.

If you're holding a weapon, you become a primary target in an attack - a threat to the attacker. If you're a primary target in an attack, it's seems foolish not to be able to return fire if fired upon. It's common sense to me.

51 posted on 11/10/2009 1:18:01 PM PST by OldDeckHand (Obamacare - So bad, even Joe Lieberman isn't going to vote for it.)
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To: Blood of Tyrants
While serving in Germany in the early seventies Mech Inf.,there was a lot of subversive acts being perpetrated by the Baider/Meinhoff gang.
Going to and from field maneuvers,a lot of firearms were transported with a squad in the back of a deuce and a half..Being in charge allowed me three live rounds for my M-16 and same for my 45.
Fortunately,I also had the opportunity to run the qualification ranges which allowed me access to ammo.
I made it a point to carry as much as I felt i could get away with.Hijacking one truck was just to easy it seemed to me.
Yes,I could have been in big trouble if caught,but I decided it was also my obligation to defend and protect the men who counted on me.
I kept it a very guarded secret lest i be court marshaled.
At the time,I was concerned about my future as a soldier,but it seemed more than worth the risk.
One squad has a lot of weapons.I though the minimal rounds were a joke.
52 posted on 11/10/2009 1:33:26 PM PST by xarmydog
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To: xarmydog

Oh,and the guard at the Company Armory only had three live rounds in his magazine.
Never could figure that out.


53 posted on 11/10/2009 1:36:33 PM PST by xarmydog
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To: xarmydog

Oh,and the guard at the Company Armory only had three live rounds in his magazine.
Never could figure that out.


54 posted on 11/10/2009 1:36:46 PM PST by xarmydog
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To: xarmydog

I heard some dingbat say that the reason that they didn’t allow soldiers to carry their firearms on base was because they didn’t want someone to start shooting up the place and then other people shooting at him and yet others shooting at them. That is EXACTLY the stupid argument that the anti-gunners use to try to disarm citizens.

Truthfully, you and I know that allowing all soldiers on base full access to guns is not a good idea. They are too young and tend to drink too much when not on duty. However, why can’t there be a few armed individuals in every work place? They don’t have to carry the gun openly, which actually would be a bad idea as a nutcase like Hassan would know who to sneak up on and take out first. Keep the number and identity of those charged with security confidential and keep any shooter guessing.


55 posted on 11/10/2009 1:46:46 PM PST by Blood of Tyrants (The Second Amendment. Don't MAKE me use it.)
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To: OldDeckHand

I’m at one of the biggest Navy base on the West coast and the entrance security is guarded by the civilian police. We also have the service guards armed to the teeth with armored vehicles patrolling the periphery because they are responsible for “other” sensitive materials :)


56 posted on 11/10/2009 1:49:43 PM PST by Toidylop
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To: frankenMonkey; cld51860

What if just a few personnel, in each workplace were armed? The list would be kept confidential and the soldiers would carry their weapons concealed.


57 posted on 11/10/2009 1:52:24 PM PST by Blood of Tyrants (The Second Amendment. Don't MAKE me use it.)
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To: derekr44
These guys are trained to load a gun and shoot in a matter of seconds.

An attack on the checkpoint would be over in a matter of seconds. I don't think you understand how long a second is under such circumstances.

...you will see that safety is the number one priority.

That's like not wearing a seat belt until you're sure the car is about to crash.

Not at the best schools. Having learned assorted lessons, many/most serious ranges have gone "hot". Training people to go "cold" gets people killed. Yes, there is risk at "hot" ranges - but military training MUST accept those risks, lest they lose more in the field. The situation in question isn't about training, it's about actual protection of a high-risk high-value target. You fight as you train - you practice "cold", you'll fight "cold". We've seen this many times, and many died thanks to such bureaucratic sentiments.

Rule #1 is "all guns are always loaded" - not just so you'll treat it like it's dangerous, but so it will be when you need it to be.

58 posted on 11/10/2009 1:53:27 PM PST by ctdonath2 (End the coup!)
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To: Blood of Tyrants
you and I know

Do we? They're SOLDIERS! On a MILITARY BASE! that they would ALL be disarmed - even the guards at the gate - is INSANE. Make sure so many are so clearly armed that any nutcase would KNOW it was pointless to even try.

If they're too young and too drunk to carry then they're too inept to be trusted with being there at all.

I couldn't disagree with you more, and find your contempt for our best revolting.

59 posted on 11/10/2009 2:01:15 PM PST by ctdonath2 (End the coup!)
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To: derekr44
I think a lot of people tend to be under the assumption that the military has enough training to carry loaded weaponry around safely all the time. This is not the case. Go to any place there are guns (shooting range, firing line, gun show, gun shop) and you will see that safety is the number one priority. Not necessarily safety from other people and/or shootings like this, but safety from accidental discharge. When you are away from the firing line, mags are out, chambers are cleared and safeties are on. It’s no different here, really. I don’t believe that it’s 100% of a PC decision... even though that may be a part of it. It’s more for a stop-gap against accidents than anything else. We may not see mags loaded in the guns, but that doesn’t mean they are defenseless. These guys are trained to load a gun and shoot in a matter of seconds.

Old deck hand...maybe in the Navy that is how you do business. But here in the Army that is not how we are trained. All of these Soldiers are trained weekly on proper weapon use. Remember our mission is not to sit on a Navy ship or on an airbase...Our is being in urban training in tihgt conditions where accidental discharge is a big no no. If you read my profile, you will see that I am active duty senior NCO in the Army. This is a political correctness decision and it is demeaning to all the Soldiers.
60 posted on 11/10/2009 2:16:51 PM PST by nckerr (www.myspace.com/ArmyKerrFamily)
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To: nckerr

The leadership may well fear that with Zero coming, some patriotic and suicidal guard might see a target of opportunity...


61 posted on 11/10/2009 2:22:47 PM PST by JimRed ("Hey, hey, Teddy K., hot enough down there today?" TERM LIMITS, NOW AND FOREVER!)
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To: ctdonath2

First of all, I never said that ALL should be disarmed.

Second, being required to carry a long gun around to your dental appointment and to classes and to the bathroom is a major PITA.

Third. All soldiers are not combat soldiers. Soldiers on the battlefield are far different from REMF (rear echelon m-fers) soldiers or even combat soldiers in training. Have you ever been on base on the Friday after payday? I have. Even good soldiers get drunk and do stupid things and bad soldiers do even more stupid things.

Fourth, there are probably jihadists in all the branches of military. Most sailors and airmen receive only the most basic training on firearms, certainly not enough to be a skilled armed guard.

All I am saying is to train enough people so that there are always a few who have CONCEALED firearms immediately available.


62 posted on 11/10/2009 2:41:18 PM PST by Blood of Tyrants (The Second Amendment. Don't MAKE me use it.)
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To: armymarinemom

Why on earth, as an army and marine mom, would you wish that your sons’ lives were at stake because the Pentagon refused to issue them ammo?

That makes absolutley no sense to me! If they are on guard duty, they should be armed with real guns and real bullets.


63 posted on 11/10/2009 2:50:22 PM PST by Monkey Face (I wear a yellow ribbon for ForgotenKnight, my army hero grandson.)
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To: Blood of Tyrants

And I never said ALL should be required to be armed.
And I never said all should be trained enough to be skilled armed guards.

That said, they’re soldiers. They should at least be _minimally_ armed, as opposed to completely disarmed (maybe not all always, but should be the norm for most). The notion that one could be a career soldier and virtually (or actually) never be armed is preposterous. Sure, carrying longguns about is a PITA, but that’s what sidearms are for: have SOMETHING available ALWAYS.

This idea that REMFs are somehow immune to enemy attack was just proven absurd in Ft. Hood. Really, in TEXAS of all places!

All I am saying is that soldiers are trained and, allowed to carry, there would always be a few (at minimum) who have firearms immediately available.

I’m not sure what your paranoia about open carry is. The notion that “the jihadist will know who to hit first” is silly as he’d at best get in only about one hit.


64 posted on 11/10/2009 2:56:09 PM PST by ctdonath2 (End the coup!)
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To: Monkey Face
Why on earth, as an army and marine mom, would you wish that your sons’ lives were at stake because the Pentagon refused to issue them ammo?

Why on Earth would you think I agreed with the idea? I just didn't want it broadcasted to on Free Republic for anyone to read. Where in my statement did I say I agreed with this? Holy cow! You owe me an apology.

65 posted on 11/10/2009 3:18:27 PM PST by armymarinemom (My sons freed Iraqi and Afghan Honor Roll students.)
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To: ctdonath2

The “paranoia” about open carry is that if only SOME are allowed to carry openly, then EVERYONE will know who they are. Terrorists can then make plans to take them out first. But I stand my ground. Having ALL personnel carry openly ALL the time is a bad idea from the standpoint of proper training, logistics, and maintenance.


66 posted on 11/10/2009 3:19:04 PM PST by Blood of Tyrants (The Second Amendment. Don't MAKE me use it.)
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To: armymarinemom

No, I don’t owe you an apology. YOU owe an apology to my marine grandson who served in Iraq and my army grandson who is currently in Afghanistan.

Why would you NOT want the lack of ammo to be known? Are you ashamed that your kids are serving? Had it been me, I would have called all the local newpapers, the TV and radio stations, and would have posted the emasculation on FR.

Shame on you.


67 posted on 11/10/2009 3:25:05 PM PST by Monkey Face (I wear a yellow ribbon for ForgotenKnight, my army hero grandson.)
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To: Monkey Face

Some of us believe it’s better NOT to broadcast our flaws and weaknesses to potential enemies.

What purpose do you think it serves to tell the world that the ‘armed guards’ aren’t really armed?

Seems like that could go unannounced, and resolved quietly.


68 posted on 11/10/2009 3:30:43 PM PST by 1Swashbuckler
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To: Monkey Face
Why would you NOT want the lack of ammo to be known?MOndkey face I have two sons on that post. We knew and didn't want that broadcasted because now the flaw is out there for anyone to see. We have complained prior to this being put out in public. I owe you nothing at all.
69 posted on 11/10/2009 3:38:35 PM PST by armymarinemom (My sons freed Iraqi and Afghan Honor Roll students.)
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To: Monkey Face
Why would you NOT want the lack of ammo to be known?MOndkey face I have two sons on that post. We knew and didn't want that broadcasted because now the flaw is out there for anyone to see. We have complained prior to this being put out in public. I owe you nothing at all.
70 posted on 11/10/2009 3:38:42 PM PST by armymarinemom (My sons freed Iraqi and Afghan Honor Roll students.)
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To: 1Swashbuckler

If it’s not made known, it can’t be changed.
Think about it.

If your son were in a security job, and told to shoot anyone who crossed the line, but not given ammo, what would you do? How would you feel? Especially if he were killed in the line of duty?

Why be quiet about the security of this country? If terrorists know we are ARMED they will be less likely to shoot us. If you have a better idea, I suggest you research Ronald Reagan’s stance on Peace. And Socialism.

In the meantime, you’d better pray that Obama doesn’t go belly up when Push comes to Shove.


71 posted on 11/10/2009 3:47:09 PM PST by Monkey Face (I wear a yellow ribbon for ForgotenKnight, my army hero grandson.)
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To: armymarinemom

I didn’t say you owed ME. I said you owed my grandsons. Is Ft. Hood a wimpy post, that will cave to whoever has a vendetta?

You make me sick. I’m a military wife, mother, widow and grandmom and I cannot ACCEPT that you would allow your sons to fall victim to terrorists.

As I said: Shame on you.


72 posted on 11/10/2009 3:50:32 PM PST by Monkey Face (I wear a yellow ribbon for ForgotenKnight, my army hero grandson.)
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To: Monkey Face
Your rash temper and lack of judgment are glaring. I do not owe you anything but you now owe everyone an apology of jumping to conclusions and making...well like the saying goes.
73 posted on 11/10/2009 3:56:37 PM PST by armymarinemom (My sons freed Iraqi and Afghan Honor Roll students.)
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To: armymarinemom

Typo on my part. Sorry. not of jumping to conclusions but for jumping to conclusions. Monkey face you have make a jack donkey of yourself. You make yourself sick.


74 posted on 11/10/2009 4:01:57 PM PST by armymarinemom (My sons freed Iraqi and Afghan Honor Roll students.)
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To: armymarinemom

I’m not jumping to conclusions. I know the military, I know the government, and since you don’t know ME you have no right to assume that I owe apologies.

As I said: It is my grandsons that you need to apoligize to. They are fighting for your right to act the fool. When you have been intimately involved with the military and the defence of this country for the last 36 years, look me up and try your arguments.

Otherwise, keep your opinions to yourself and allow the military to do its job. Had the service members been allowed to carry live ammo, you can bet there would have been less damage.

Again: Shame on you.


75 posted on 11/10/2009 4:06:37 PM PST by Monkey Face (I wear a yellow ribbon for ForgotenKnight, my army hero grandson.)
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To: Monkey Face
I’m not jumping to conclusions. I know the military, I know the government, and since you don’t know ME you have no right to assume that I owe apologies.

I don't know you either and we should have got along just fine. No you jumped the conclusion that I agreed that magazines should be empty. Go back read what you said. You lost your temper and made a glaring fool of yourself. You brought your grandson in the fray for no reason what so ever unless it was for your bad temper and lack of thought.

76 posted on 11/10/2009 4:09:44 PM PST by armymarinemom (My sons freed Iraqi and Afghan Honor Roll students.)
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To: armymarinemom
...Monkey face you have make a jack donkey of yourself. You make yourself sick.

I consider that as a personal attack. Again, shame on you.

77 posted on 11/10/2009 4:11:10 PM PST by Monkey Face (I wear a yellow ribbon for ForgotenKnight, my army hero grandson.)
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To: Monkey Face

It wasn’t a personal attack just a gentle observation.


78 posted on 11/10/2009 4:12:06 PM PST by armymarinemom (My sons freed Iraqi and Afghan Honor Roll students.)
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To: armymarinemom

Not gentle at all.


79 posted on 11/10/2009 4:13:45 PM PST by Monkey Face (I wear a yellow ribbon for ForgotenKnight, my army hero grandson.)
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To: Monkey Face

You attacked first. Go back and read.


80 posted on 11/10/2009 4:15:26 PM PST by armymarinemom (My sons freed Iraqi and Afghan Honor Roll students.)
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To: armymarinemom

Do not post to me again. Your argument is twisted and obscure. Your basis is beyond reality. The military has been my life since I was 17. Don’t assume that everyone who has a son or daughter in the service is wimpy. We are all strongly patriotic and do not tolerate liberals when our children are fighting for your right to be asinine.


81 posted on 11/10/2009 4:24:44 PM PST by Monkey Face (I wear a yellow ribbon for ForgotenKnight, my army hero grandson.)
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To: Monkey Face

I can post to you as long as I please. I have a very good argument and sure didn’t deserve your rash assumption that I agreed with the what was being done for security. I have also never said that anyone who has family serving is wimpy. You mentioned wimpy. Good grief stop making I sure do not assume much. Can;t say the same.Listen to yourself.


82 posted on 11/10/2009 4:28:46 PM PST by armymarinemom (My sons freed Iraqi and Afghan Honor Roll students.)
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To: nckerr

Anyone know who banned loaded weapons on bases?

Hint: JIMMY CARTER


83 posted on 11/10/2009 4:29:08 PM PST by Humidston (Government health care will be as efficient as H1N1 vaccinations are.)
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To: Angry_White_Man_Syndrome
I sereved in Special Warefare at NAB Coronado from 91 to 96, we always had loaded 45's on watch.

Well you were mostly alone at that time. The rest of the Navy was issued magazines for watch but never carried loaded weapons. It wasn't until after the Cole in 2000 that the Navy finally decided that they could trust average sailors to carry condition one weapons and not shoot themselves.

84 posted on 11/10/2009 4:47:03 PM PST by GATOR NAVY
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To: nckerr
And if the Navy or USAF has loaded weapons and they are barely trained on weapons, how much more should the Soldiers and Marines be allowed to have amuunition in their weapons? The actual boots on the ground highly trained warfighters?

I do not know that we would be considered barely trained. Every member of the unit had to go to the range at least once a month.
85 posted on 11/11/2009 8:31:06 AM PST by Angry_White_Man_Syndrome
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To: Blood of Tyrants
Many times while stationed in Germany,I was delegated,[ordered]to pull Courtesy Patrol.
I had to sign for a jeep,acquire a driver,radio,M-16,45,et al.
Oh,and a sleeve patch indicating CP.
Our job was to answer calls for over imbibed GI’s causing a ruckus,and to escort them home.We had more ammo on those type of patrols than when we were in a tactical movement.
We patrolled the streets of our location in civilian territory fully armed.No problem.
Even on base we were never given a second glance.
But,I agree open access for all is not a good idea.I have seen many situations that could go bad in quick time over,basically ,trivial crap.
A lot of responsibility goes into that type of patrol duty.
Some of the stories I could tell.Thankfully ,all ended well.Some barely!!
86 posted on 11/13/2009 12:26:41 PM PST by xarmydog
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To: Blood of Tyrants
When I was in the Infantry,it was not uncommon to carry your weapons everywhere,including the bank.It just was no big deal.Even in Germany!
Standing in line in a bank in Germany after a Reforger exercise having had no shower for 30 plus days with no heat in Feb.,you became ripe quickly to the point of stinking so bad,self esteem was out the window!
I wore a 45,with M-16,plus, and there was never a second thought about it.The families in the unit considered it part of the job.We slept,ate,crapped and did all of the normal activities and never gave it a second thought.It was part of our job and to think of all the ruckus now is comical.
Sub humans that are inclined to do bad will.To the guys I trained with,when it was time off,It was TIME OFF!The last thing on their minds was a weapon of any kind unless it had something to do with a private part!!!
87 posted on 04/02/2010 3:37:33 PM PDT by xarmydog
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