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Gld ETF Warning, Tungsten Filled Fake Gold Bars
The Market Oracle ^ | 11/12/09

Posted on 11/12/2009 4:33:27 PM PST by FromLori

“Gold Finger - A New Take On Operation Grand Slam With A Tungsten Twist”

I’ve already reported on irregular physical gold settlements which occurred in London, England back in the first week of October, 2009. Specifically, these settlements involved the intermediation of at least one Central Bank [The Bank of England] to resolve allocated settlements on behalf of J.P. Morgan and Deutsche Bank – who DID NOT have the gold bullion that they had sold short and were contracted to deliver. At the same time I reported on two other unusual occurrences:

1] - irregularities in the publication of the gold ETF - GLD’s bar list from Sept. 25 – Oct.14 where the length of the bar list went from 1,381 pages to under 200 pages and then back up to 800 or so pages.

2] - reports of 400 oz. “good delivery” bricks of gold found gutted and filled with tungsten within the confines of LBMA approved vaults in Hong Kong.

Why Tungsten?

If anyone were contemplating creating “fake” gold bars, tungsten [at roughly $10 per pound] would be the metal of choice since it has the exact same density as gold making a fake bar salted with tungsten indistinguishable from a solid gold bar by simply weighing it.

Unfortunately, there are now more sordid details to report.

When the news of tungsten “salted” gold bars in Hong Kong first surfaced, many people

who I am acquainted with automatically assumed that these bars were manufactured in

China – because China is generally viewed as “the knock-off capital of the world”.

Here’s what I now understand really happened:

The amount of “salted tungsten” gold bars in question was allegedly between 5,600 and 5,700 – 400 oz – good delivery bars [roughly 60 metric tonnes].

This was apparently all highly orchestrated by an extremely well financed criminal operation.

Within mere hours of this scam being identified – Chinese officials had many of the perpetrators in custody.

And here’s what the Chinese allegedly uncovered:

Roughly 15 years ago – during the Clinton Administration [think Robert Rubin, Sir Alan Greenspan and Lawrence Summers] – between 1.3 and 1.5 million 400 oz tungsten blanks were allegedly manufactured by a very high-end, sophisticated refiner in the USA [more than 16 Thousand metric tonnes]. Subsequently, 640,000 of these tungsten blanks received their gold plating and WERE shipped to Ft. Knox and remain there to this day. I know folks who have copies of the original shipping docs with dates and exact weights of “tungsten” bars shipped to Ft. Knox.

The balance of this 1.3 million – 1.5 million 400 oz tungsten cache was also plated and then allegedly “sold” into the international market.

Apparently, the global market is literally “stuffed full of 400 oz salted bars”.

Makes one wonder if the Indians were smart enough to assay their 200 tonne haul from the IMF?

A Slow Motion Train Wreck, Years in the Making

An obscure news item originally published in the N.Y. Post [written by Jennifer Anderson] in late Jan. 04 has always ‘stuck in my craw’:

DA investigating NYMEX executive - Manhattan, New York, district attorney's office, Stuart Smith - Melting Pot - Brief Article – Feb. 2, 2004 A top executive at the New York Mercantile Exchange is being investigated by the Manhattan district attorney. Sources close to the exchange said that Stuart Smith, senior vice president of operations at the exchange, was served with a search warrant by the district attorney's office last week. Details of the investigation have not been disclosed, but a NYMEX spokeswoman said it was unrelated to any of the exchange's markets. She declined to comment further other than to say that charges had not been brought. A spokeswoman for the Manhattan district attorney's office also declined comment.

The offices of the Senior Vice President of Operations - NYMEX – is exactly where you would go to find the records [serial number and smelter of origin] for EVERY GOLD BAR ever PHYSICALLY settled on the exchange. They are required to keep these records. These precise records would show the lineage of all the physical gold settled on the exchange and hence "prove" that the amount of gold in question could not have possibly come from the U.S. mining operations – because the amounts in question coming from U.S. smelters would undoubtedly be vastly bigger than domestic mine production.

We never have found out what happened to poor ole Stuart Smith – after his offices were "raided" – he took administrative leave from the NYMEX and he has never been heard from since. Amazingly [or perhaps not], there never was any follow up on in the media on the original story as well as ZERO developments ever stemming from D.A. Morgenthau’s office who executed the search warrant.

Are we to believe that NYMEX offices were raided, the Sr. V.P. of operations then takes leave - all for nothing?

These revelations should provide a “new filter” through which Rothschild exiting the gold market back in 2004 begins to make a little more sense:

“LONDON, April 14, 2004 (Reuters) - NM Rothschild & Sons Ltd., the London-based unit of investment bank Rothschild [ROT.UL], will withdraw from trading commodities, including gold, in London as it reviews its operations, it said on Wednesday.”

Interestingly, GATA’s Bill Murphy speculated about this back in 2004;

“Why is Rothschild leaving the gold business at this time my colleagues and I conjectured today? Just a guess on my part, but suspect:”

*SOMETHING IS AMISS. THEY KNOW A BIG GOLD SCANDAL IS COMING AND THEY WANT NO PART OF IT. …”

“ROTHSCHILD WANTS OUT BEFORE THE PROVERBIAL "S" HITS THE FAN.” BILL MURPHY, LEMETROPOLE, 4-18-2004

Coincidentally [or perhaps, not?], GLD Began Trading 11/12/2004

In light of what has occurred – regarding the Gold ETF, GLD – after reviewing their prospectus yet again, it becomes pretty clear that GLD was established to purposefully deflect investment dollars away from legitimate gold pursuits and to create a stealth, cesspool / catch-all, slush-fund and a likely destination for many of these “salted tungsten bars” where they would never see the light of day – hidden behind the following legalese “shield” from the law:

Excerpt from the GLD prospectus on page 11:

http://www.spdrgoldshares.com/media/GLD/file/SPDRGoldTrustProspectus.pdf

Gold bars allocated to the Trust in connection with the creation of a Basket may not meet the London Good Delivery Standards and, if a Basket is issued against such gold, the Trust may suffer a loss. Neither the Trustee nor the Custodian independently confirms the fineness of the gold bars allocated to the Trust in connection with the creation of a Basket. The gold bars allocated to the Trust by the Custodian may be different from the reported fineness or weight required by the LBMA’s standards for gold bars delivered in settlement of a gold trade, or the London Good Delivery Standards, the standards required by the Trust. If the Trustee nevertheless issues a Basket against such gold, and if the Custodian fails to satisfy its obligation to credit the Trust the amount of any deficiency, the Trust may suffer a loss.

The Fed Has Already Been Caught Lying

Liberty Coin’s Patrick Heller recently wrote,

Earlier this year, the Gold Anti-Trust Action Committee (GATA), filed a second Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) request with the Federal Reserve System for documents from 1990 to date having to do with gold swaps, gold swapped, or proposed gold swaps.

On Aug. 5, The Federal Reserve responded to this FOIA request by adding two more documents to those disclosed to GATA in April 2008 from the earlier FOIA request. These documents totaled 173 pages, many parts of which were redacted (covered up to omit sections of text). The Fed's response also noted that there were 137 pages of documents not disclosed that were alleged to be exempt from disclosure.

GATA appealed this determination on Aug. 20. The appeal asked for more information to substantiate the legitimacy of the claimed exemptions from disclosure and an explanation on why some documents, such as one posted on the Federal Reserve Web site that discusses gold swaps, were not included in the Aug. 5 document release.

In a Sept. 17, 2009, letter on Federal Reserve System letterhead, Federal Reserve governor Kevin M. Warsh completely denied GATA's appeal. The entire text of this letter can be examined at http://www.gata.org/files/GATAFedResponse-09-17-2009.pdf.

The first paragraph on the third page is the most revealing. Warsh wrote, "In connection with your appeal, I have confirmed that the information withheld under exemption 4 consists of confidential commercial or financial information relating to the operations of the Federal Reserve Banks that was obtained within the meaning of exemption 4. This includes information relating to swap arrangements with foreign banks on behalf of the Federal Reserve System and is not the type of information that is customarily disclosed to the public. This information was properly withheld from you."

This paragraph will likely be one of the most important news stories of the year.

Though not stated in plain English, this paragraph is an admission that the Fed has in the past and may now be engaged in trading gold swaps. Warsh's letter contradicts previous Fed statements to GATA denying that it ever engaged in gold swaps during the time period between Jan. 1, 1990 and the present.

[Perhaps most importantly], this was GATA's second FOIA request to the Federal Reserve on the issue of gold swaps. The 173 pages of documents received for the 2009 FOIA request all pre-dated the 2007 FOIA request, which means they should have been released in the response to the earlier FOIA request. This establishes a likelihood that the Federal Reserve has failed to adequately search or disclose relevant documents. Further, the Fed response admitted that it had copies of relevant records that originally appeared on the Treasury Department Web site, but failed to include them in its response.

Now that Federal Reserve governor Warsh has admitted that the Fed has lied in the past about the Fed’s involvement with gold. It should now be very clear to everyone why the Fed is lying and the true nature of what they are hiding / withholding.

On Doing God’s Work

An important footnote to consider is the inter-twined-ness of the U.S. Federal Reserve and the U.S. Treasury [can anyone really tell them apart?] as well as this duopoly’s two principal agents – J.P. Morgan-Chase and Goldman Sachs. When one truly grasps the nature of these highly conflicted relationships it gives a fuller meaning to words recently uttered by Goldman head, Lloyd Blankfein, who claimed,

“I’m doing god’s work”

Does this really mean that Mr. Blankfein believes that the Federal Reserve is god? You can judge for yourself. While the Fed prints money like no one else could - except god almighty himself [or Gideon Gono, perhaps?] – I really doubt that was the intent back in 1864, when the U.S. adopted “In God We Trust” as their official motto.

And that’s my two cents worth for today.

Got [real] physical gold yet?


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Front Page News; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: 4a1000tungsten; bob152; fake; gold; goldbug; greeniguanaiscorrect; hardmoneymyths; sunkenciv; tungsten; yeahthatsfunny
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1 posted on 11/12/2009 4:33:28 PM PST by FromLori
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To: FromLori; perchprism; LomanBill; JDoutrider; blam

ping


2 posted on 11/12/2009 4:34:23 PM PST by FromLori (FromLori)
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To: FromLori
This was posted earlier today on a proprietary website that costs quite a bit, so I didn't dare post it to FR. Fortunately, you found a free Market Oracle version of the article.

This is what I was talking about several days ago.

The gold rig is starting to unravel.

3 posted on 11/12/2009 4:37:39 PM PST by Publius (Do you want the people who run Amtrak to take out your appendix?)
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To: FromLori

So I guess gold will shoot up another 3% overnight from this


4 posted on 11/12/2009 4:37:47 PM PST by montag813 (During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act. -George Orwell)
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To: rabscuttle385

WOW.......JUST WOW


5 posted on 11/12/2009 4:39:50 PM PST by stockpirate ("if the American people decide it's time for a revolution, we'll fight with you." Rhodes Othkprs)
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To: FromLori; Grampa Dave

Hell... Tungsten could be worth more then Gold. Last I heard there were no significant Tungsten deposits in the U.S of A


6 posted on 11/12/2009 4:40:03 PM PST by tubebender (Santa Claus is always jolly cause he knows where all the bad girls live...)
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To: FromLori

Tungsten and gold are phenomenally close...19.25 vs. 19.32...the real thing to compare is specific gravity.

Pewter and silver are also exceptionally close. *ALL* chinese silver, with the exception of very old pieces, is silver-plated pewter.


7 posted on 11/12/2009 4:40:38 PM PST by Attention Surplus Disorder (It's better to give a Ford to the Kidney Foundation than a kidney to the Ford Foundation.)
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To: FromLori
Stories like this could cause a panic among gold bugs.

When it gets bad the store of value will be in what you can eat or shoot.

8 posted on 11/12/2009 4:41:08 PM PST by Anti-Bubba182
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To: FromLori

“Roughly 15 years ago – during the Clinton Administration [think Robert Rubin, Sir Alan Greenspan and Lawrence Summers] – between 1.3 and 1.5 million 400 oz tungsten blanks were allegedly manufactured by a very high-end, sophisticated refiner in the USA [more than 16 Thousand metric tonnes]. Subsequently, 640,000 of these tungsten blanks received their gold plating and WERE shipped to Ft. Knox and remain there to this day. I know folks who have copies of the original shipping docs with dates and exact weights of “tungsten” bars shipped to Ft. Knox. “

Is this suggesting that the Clintons had something to do with this fake gold going in to Ft. Knox?


9 posted on 11/12/2009 4:41:18 PM PST by stockpirate ("if the American people decide it's time for a revolution, we'll fight with you." Rhodes Othkprs)
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To: FromLori

Are buyers that stupid?

I doubt it.


10 posted on 11/12/2009 4:41:56 PM PST by Uncle Miltie (America, 1776 - 2009. R.I.P.)
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To: Publius

I wonder if this is done with gold coins?


11 posted on 11/12/2009 4:42:04 PM PST by Anti-Bubba182
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To: stockpirate

It appears that way.


12 posted on 11/12/2009 4:43:16 PM PST by FromLori (FromLori)
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To: Anti-Bubba182
That's a scary thought, but I doubt it. For American and Canadian coins, their national mints are responsible for gold bullion coins, so I doubt there was any skullduggery.

But those Chinese pandas...

13 posted on 11/12/2009 4:43:54 PM PST by Publius (Do you want the people who run Amtrak to take out your appendix?)
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To: FromLori
The FIX is in.

Clinton got his

BOO-YAH!

14 posted on 11/12/2009 4:44:14 PM PST by jaz.357 ("If the present tries to sit in judgment on the past, it will lose the future." W.Churchill)
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To: Uncle Miltie
It has nothing to do with stupidity. The density of tungsten and gold are virtally identical. The only way you could tell the difference is to drill into the bar and analyze what comes out of the drill bit, or pass an electric current through the bar and measure resistance, and even there you would need more than your typical Radio Shack instrument.
15 posted on 11/12/2009 4:46:35 PM PST by Publius (Do you want the people who run Amtrak to take out your appendix?)
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To: Publius
I doubt tungsten would be something a die could press as easily too.

The Fort Knox angle is alarming.

16 posted on 11/12/2009 4:46:54 PM PST by Anti-Bubba182
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To: stockpirate

I would put nothing past the hillbilly criminals Clinton.


17 posted on 11/12/2009 4:48:11 PM PST by wally_bert (It's sheer elegance in its simplicity! - The Middleman)
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To: Anti-Bubba182
There was another article at that proprietary website this morning about the gold leases and swaps.

US law prihibits the Fed or Treasury to sell America's sovereign gold without congressional approval, so we swapped our gold with the Germans, and they sold it for us. We then took the German gold -- which is also subject to (German) legislative permission -- and sold it for them. This way, both the Fed and German central banks could tell the world they hadn't sold their own nations' sovereign gold and still be telling the truth.

But that raises the question of where the real gold went. Who has it? It sounds like we may have uncovered a piece of a larger plot that was aimed at cornering the world's gold. But who was doing it, and where is the real gold being stored?

18 posted on 11/12/2009 4:52:13 PM PST by Publius (Do you want the people who run Amtrak to take out your appendix?)
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To: Uncle Miltie

Do they still sell those bathtubs like they had in Archimedes’ time?


19 posted on 11/12/2009 4:53:08 PM PST by Old Professer (The critic writes with rapier pen, dips it twice, then writes again.)
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To: Old Professer

Ah the old Goldbrick scam!


20 posted on 11/12/2009 4:56:21 PM PST by JMS
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To: Anti-Bubba182

Unless it had a core of tungsten,like all American coins which now have alloys other than silver in their cores.In the case of gold, just make certain that the edges are covered.


21 posted on 11/12/2009 4:57:11 PM PST by nomad
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To: FromLori

Fits in with the rumors of no gold in Ft. Knox, so where did the gold go?


22 posted on 11/12/2009 4:57:23 PM PST by razorback-bert (We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers.)
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To: Publius
"....where is the real gold being stored?"

I doubt we will know. If anything the Government would want to suppress a story like this now.

23 posted on 11/12/2009 4:57:41 PM PST by Anti-Bubba182
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To: FromLori

So... let’s see: if true, gold holders will sell off to rid themselves of fake gold;

but — wait: when all that fake gold is sorted out of the market, guess what happens to the actual supply of gold — and its price?

People are truly freakin’ out.


24 posted on 11/12/2009 5:00:43 PM PST by nicollo (you're freakin' out!)
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To: FromLori

Sent the info to Drudge!


25 posted on 11/12/2009 5:00:47 PM PST by stockpirate ("if the American people decide it's time for a revolution, we'll fight with you." Rhodes Othkprs)
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To: JMS

More like the electronics box which has a couple of bricks duct taped to the inside the sealed foam stuffed box.


26 posted on 11/12/2009 5:00:59 PM PST by nomad
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To: Publius
For American and Canadian coins, their national mints are responsible for gold bullion coins, so I doubt there was any skullduggery.

This assumes we KNOW an "American" coin came from the US Mint, rather than being a Chinese counterfeit.

27 posted on 11/12/2009 5:01:46 PM PST by PapaBear3625 (Public healthcare looks like it will work as well as public housing did.)
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To: Anti-Bubba182
If anything the Government would want to suppress a story like this now.

It's a bit late for that. This horse has galloped out of the barn.

28 posted on 11/12/2009 5:03:39 PM PST by Publius (Do you want the people who run Amtrak to take out your appendix?)
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To: PapaBear3625
This assumes we KNOW an "American" coin came from the US Mint, rather than being a Chinese counterfeit.

Uh-oh. My pucker factor has just gone off the charts.

29 posted on 11/12/2009 5:05:27 PM PST by Publius (Do you want the people who run Amtrak to take out your appendix?)
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To: Publius

Speaking of the Canadian Mint, 6 months or so ago the Royal Canadian Mint discovered that they were missing a whole bunch of gold. They suspected accounting errors at first, as I guess their storage facility is highly secure (or so they thought. Anyway accounting errors did not explain, so they did a full blown audit of the RCM and sure as heck, the gold is gone, the mystery is to where. I believe this was in May 2009, there’s any number of media stories on it.

Now this tungsten story Rob Kirby is putting forth first came around six weeks ago or so. There is zero in the media about it, lots of references at gold websites and blogs. Now, I’m a goldbug, no doubt about that, and it seems obvious that there is a huge amount of hijinks in the gold market in many different ways. But something about this Kirby story does not sit right with me. He says he has documents or someone he knows has seen documents. I say, if that’s the case, make them public and lets stir it up.

The only thing that rings true about it, is this old article from 1983, about tungsten filled bars getting busted in Austria. Here you go......

REUTERS
Published: December 22, 1983

The Austrian police announced the arrest today of 5 men and the discovery of 10 counterfeit gold bars stamped with numbers and refiner’s name to match 6,000 real bars stolen in Britain last month.

The police said the five arrested in Vienna on Tuesday night apparently planned to sell the counterfeit gold, passing it off as part of the haul of three tons of bullion stolen by masked gunmen from a warehouse near London’s Heathrow Airport on Nov. 26.

A police spokesman said the police did not know how the men had discovered the numbers stamped on the stolen bars.

The police at first suspected the counterfeit bars were part of the Heathrow booty, but the spokesman said tests showed the bars were made of tungsten and only coated with gold.

The fake bars were seized in a police raid on a hotel where the five men - four Italians and an Austrian - were meeting.


30 posted on 11/12/2009 5:13:41 PM PST by jsh3180
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To: stockpirate

Related

http://www.zerohedge.com/article/smoking-gun-fed-controlling-gold

http://www.zerohedge.com/article/declassified-state-dept-data-highlights-global-high-level-arrangement-remain-masters-gold

http://news.goldseek.com/GATA/1257721500.php

http://www.commodityonline.com/futures-trading/technical/Gold-price-suppression-is-public-policy-in-America-12672.html

http://www.canadianbusiness.com/markets/market_news/article.jsp?content=b291772219&utm_source=markets

http://www.economicpolicyjournal.com/2009/09/duh-barrick-is-bullish-on-gold.html

http://www.coinresource.com/news/gold_market_manipulation.htm

http://www.marketskeptics.com/2009/10/gold-market-reaching-breaking-point.html

http://www.economicpolicyjournal.com/2009/11/whats-fed-hiding.html


31 posted on 11/12/2009 5:17:09 PM PST by FromLori (FromLori)
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To: SeekAndFind

ping to you


32 posted on 11/12/2009 5:18:16 PM PST by Vince Ferrer
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To: FromLori
Wonder when the name Soros will show up in this mess?
33 posted on 11/12/2009 5:21:18 PM PST by The Cajun (Mind numbed robot , ditto-head, Hannitized, Levinite)
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To: FromLori

I better check my 400 oz gold bricks right away.


34 posted on 11/12/2009 5:22:50 PM PST by smokingfrog (Well, are you gonna draw those pistols or whistle Dixie? Spit!)
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To: Publius

This sort of sounds like the story about the fake treasury bonds with space shuttles on them.

None of it is sourced, and “I know guys who have the original shipping docs to Fort Knox” just doesn’t cut it from a journalistic perspective. You can bet anyone with enough wealth to buy 400ozt gold bars by the tons knows enough to assay their stash. I’m not buying it, smacks of propaganda, someone talking their book so to speak?


35 posted on 11/12/2009 5:24:37 PM PST by Freedom4US
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To: Publius

Think about it. If you buy a fake Maple leaf, Canada can’t do anything for you. Same as if you get a counterfeit note.
The bank doesn’t replace it with a real one, the last holder gets stuck.


36 posted on 11/12/2009 5:27:04 PM PST by Freedom4US
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To: TigerLikesRooster

Headsup


37 posted on 11/12/2009 5:27:35 PM PST by Jet Jaguar (A mob of one.)
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To: FromLori
So I guess that means the price of tungsten is going up then?

What is finally breaking out in the open is that instead of being "real money", or "hard money," gold has been turned into fiat gold, a fractional reserve gold where many owners will have claims to the same physical gold.

38 posted on 11/12/2009 5:29:05 PM PST by Vince Ferrer
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To: FromLori

Can you say Barbara Streisand?

Whoever thought this up doesn’t understand how gold bullion is accounted for.


39 posted on 11/12/2009 5:29:32 PM PST by editor-surveyor (The beginning of the O'Bomb-a administration looks a lot like the end of the Nixon administration)
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To: Vince Ferrer

Krugerands, Maples, not stuff in a vault far away!

If it’s not in your safe, its not really yours.


40 posted on 11/12/2009 5:31:55 PM PST by editor-surveyor (The beginning of the O'Bomb-a administration looks a lot like the end of the Nixon administration)
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To: Anti-Bubba182

A loaf of bread costing a days wages...


41 posted on 11/12/2009 5:33:11 PM PST by 2Jedismom
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To: Anti-Bubba182
I wonder if this is done with gold coins?

Of course, gold coins are a "store of value," they would never be melted down to make electronics out of, so most likely it would never be detected. Just look on this Chinese website: Tungsten Alloy for Gold Substitution

42 posted on 11/12/2009 5:37:25 PM PST by Vince Ferrer
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To: editor-surveyor

Please see my link in post 42. Coins are no safer.


43 posted on 11/12/2009 5:44:46 PM PST by Vince Ferrer
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To: Vince Ferrer
Wow! You can't trust coins either. How would most honest vendors know the coins were good without a destructive assay? They could look at the impression, but the weight would be the same.

How reliable are the national mints? If there is screwing around with the gold in Fort Knox, what is safe?

44 posted on 11/12/2009 6:02:24 PM PST by Anti-Bubba182
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To: FromLori; All

You guys are a bunch of crazy nuts!

Good for you.


45 posted on 11/12/2009 6:13:49 PM PST by green iguana
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To: Publius

I bet China has it!


46 posted on 11/12/2009 6:18:16 PM PST by jcsjcm (American Patriot - follow the Constitution and in God we Trust - Laus Deo)
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To: FromLori

I’ve been thinking about gold for a long time. I haven’t invested in gold because I don’t see the intrinsic value in life.

I can understand energy, food commodities, water, lead, gun powder, seeds, tobacco, land, and precious metals (that are required for modern living).

I don’t get gold. It seems like a tribalistic currency to me. If the world turned to crap like in One Second After, what good does gold do for me? Is the local tribal chiefton trying to impress the shirtless virgins. Would you really trade a month’s worth of food for 10 lbs of gold in the One Second After scenario?

Hell in a tribal society, you are better off with a stable of daughters than a barn full of gold.

Someone please enlighten me. On a side note, the GLD ETF makes even less sense (other than for day traders). If you think gold is a physical currency to protect your assets GET THE PHYSICAL CURRENCY.


47 posted on 11/12/2009 6:40:39 PM PST by laxcoach (Government is greedy. Taxpayers who want their own money are not greedy.)
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To: nicollo

Gold future is down .23% thats hardly “freaking out”


48 posted on 11/12/2009 6:46:22 PM PST by omega4179 (14: real death toll from islamist terror attack R.I.P 11/5/09)
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To: Anti-Bubba182
Wow! You can't trust coins either. How would most honest vendors know the coins were good without a destructive assay?

There are two ways I can think of with a coin. The first, which is admittedly crude, is to "ring" the coin by tapping it. Gold is quite different from tungsten mechanically and will give a different sound--rather bell-like in a one ounce coin, AFAIK. The second way is to measure thermal conductivity--heating one end of the coin and measuring the time profile for the far end to warm up. Gold is a much better thermal conductor than tungsten.

I doubt that either of these methods would easily pick up mild alloying (say 10 to 20%), but they should be able to pick up a tungsten coin with a thin gold plating.

49 posted on 11/12/2009 6:47:13 PM PST by Pearls Before Swine (Is /sarc really necessary?)
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To: jcsjcm
Klintoon only acts like a stupid hick, is it coincidence Slick was having such a connection with China AND this fake gold bar thing was occurring? THEN the link on Post 42 makes it even scarier (this Chinese "company" actually bragging about making fake tungstan alloy gold coins)!

Makes me think Slick learned just enough from Tea Pot Dome to try and pull something like this.

If this is a real story and it breaks, it will be very telling if Klintoon becomes hard to find!

Sure makes me proud to have hesitated about physical gold and stayed with gold mining mutual funds.

This may have stayed hidden just like how crooked Lousiana political graft prevailed so long, the big shots shared it all around just enough to keep most quiet. Who you gonna tell if your in on it too? Turns out holding the real thing ain't any safer.

50 posted on 11/12/2009 6:56:49 PM PST by dusttoyou (libs are all wee wee'd up and no place to go)
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