Posted on 12/28/2009 3:51:18 AM PST by marktwain
The sight of a man openly carrying a firearm in a Nashville-area park has scared some people, resulting in a law enforcement response. From the Associated Press:
A man carrying an AK-47-style semiautomatic pistol was detained at Radnor Lake State Park on Sunday after startled hikers complained to park rangers.
Some would consider that a scary-looking gun. Some would consider coloring the muzzle tip orange so it looks like an Airsoft gun scary. And some would consider gun owner Leonard Embody's choice of apparel, "a camouflage jacket, military boots and a black skull cap" scary.
That's how hiker Ellen Thomas described her encounter with Embody. And even Minneapolis Gun Rights Examiner and Open Carry.org co-founder John Pierce, who is quoted in this story, concedes appearances can be problematic.
(Excerpt) Read more at examiner.com ...
“I’m opposed as well, but wouldn’t people be less scared if it looked like a toy?”
He’s trying to make it look like a toy but that attempt fails. People are scared because they see an armed man acting irrationally. And rightly so.
While I agree in principle, I also think that as long as he didn’t threaten or harm anyone specifically it’s not a problem how he painted his gun.
I’ve heard stories of people flipping over open carry in places where it’s legal enough.
If he was carrying in a holster he would get a lot more support from the pro gun rights crowd.
If he didn’t paint the tip orange he would get more support.
If he didn’t intentionally choose a firearm like this he would get more support.
As it is he’s a dangerous clown.
Please read my post 53.
Having to get a concealed weapon perment is an infringement.
Yes! If we are all to be equal under the law then no one should have a gun or we should all have guns. I vote the latter
:-)
That I agree with, but people like this hurt that cause.
“As it is he’s a dangerous clown.”
Dangerous? To whom? Just because you don’t like what someone does, it does not constitute a danger.
American’s do not deserve freedom. They are terrified of it.
Hank
‘Dangerous? To whom? Just because you don’t like what someone does, it does not constitute a danger.”
To himself and those around him. To use the previous posters example someone sitting in a room breaking wind is rude but not necessarily dangerous. Someone armed and acting irrationally is dangerous. There are plenty of ways to support open carry without doing stuff like this.
‘American’s do not deserve freedom. They are terrified of it.”
You seem to have great disdain for America. I love America and won’t give up on it.
This has gotten to be the case though cops are still bound by laws that only allow use of deadly physical force to protect the officer's life and/or the public safety. Is the officer or the in danger when the officer issues an unlawful command which is not obeyed? State laws differ on self defens against rogue cops but private citizens have been found innocent through a self defense claim. When an officer makes a public threat to blow someone away, his subsequent actions are surely open to question. Depending upon the circumstances, I personally might choose to make my own case for self defense.
Attitudes like yours and others on this thread are the very reason our second amendment rights are in danger and have been gradually eroded away in some states.
The painting the gun tip orange is stupid, and I am talking about toy guns, and not for the safety of children but for the appeasement of anti-gun types. When I was a kid we all played with toy guns, constantly, no orange tips and no dead children by cops.
Cops who shoot children with toy guns are idiots and should be prosecuted.
People who panic merely at the sight of a firearm are first class cowards. 60 years ago someone walking around with a firearm would not have even stirred a comment other than some of the hikers would have wanted to look at the unusual piece.
Our country has come a long way and the appeasers on FR, on this thread and similar threads, show why PC is so effective: "OH", says the idiot that wants to keep all weapons out of site, "we can't show our weapons this will make people not like us!". This is appeasement at its highest order and totally stupid. If it is legal, then there is nothing wrong with him doing it. The orange tip doesn't make the gun any more lethal, and the fact that people went bat sh** over it shows how ineffective painting the tip of a toy gun really is.
This kind of BS makes one almost ashamed of some FReepers.
I’m a bit stunned by it. And it’s not just FR, it’s other ‘pro-gun’ sites like glocktalk and ar15.com that are rampaging against this. It’s a joke.
I am not sure how i would rather be killed, by a policeman trying to shoot some one who had a gun that looked like a toy or by the man carring the gun that looked like a toy.
Its for sure if you carry a gun like that no one is going to try to rob you, but if some one is threatened by it they could end up killing you just out of panic, ( police or private person ).
If some one wants to kill you for any reason, a gun no matter how big will not save you except if you are aware of it. so i think a small hand gun is the only thing that makes any sense, because common sense tells me its just telling those would be muggers to leave you alone.
But if you are going to start a war then you would need a big weapon.
As you can probably tell, i am not a gun expert but i believe in the bill of rights and i believe any laws concerning the right to keep and bare arms is an infringement.
“You seem to have great disdain for America.”
Read it again. America was great for the first 35 years of my life. Her people loved freedom and were not afraid of it. Now America is filled with people like you, which has spoiled the last 35 years of my life.
I love America. If you think what we have today is America, you never knew her.
Hank
‘Now America is filled with people like you, which has spoiled the last 35 years of my life.”
Judging from your attitude I am glad I can ruin your day even though it doesn’t appear to take much. However I love freedom and have fought for it.
Acting irresponsibly is not ‘freedom’ it is irresponsible. A basis for freedom requires honor, integrity and a duty to those around you. Freedom does not mean you can do anything and everything you want whenever you want. That is anarchy.
BTW, letting others dictate your level of happiness and “ruin” 35 years of your life indicates you have made some very poor decisions.
With that I agree. I suspect he is really a nutso liberal pretending to be a gun advocate so as to hurt the cause.
I have many friends and neighbors in law enforcement and what I said (about their being against individual gun ownership) is true of about half of them. The other half agrees with me and you.
I know. God save me from idiot reporters.
He likely saw a picture of a gun, once, and that made him the most qualified to comment.
“Cops who shoot children with toy guns are idiots and should be prosecuted.”
Thats a rather broad statement. There were many cases where cops shot children in justifiable situations.
“People who panic merely at the sight of a firearm are first class cowards.”
And people who ignore an irrational person carrying a firearm are just plain stupid.
Did you see the picture of the firearm?
I smell a setup. Do something legal, have someone else cry to the Law about it, get a Legislator to ramp up the laws to crack down our Rights further.
Protections for our Rights are important specifically to protect some of those individual behaviors that might "scare the sheep" a bit.
Also, I've seen at least one person bring up the "fire in a theater" canard. People need to stop using that one. You cannot FRAUDULENTLY yell fire in a theater, but you damn well can if the theater is on fire. This isn't an infringement on speech, but an injunction against fraud and causing willful bodily harm.
Who is harmed by some idjit carrying a pistol like this? He walked past several people, without doing anything overt to scare them apparently, and is a known quantity in the community. A bit of a tard, but harmless.
Let's not fight our enemies battles for them.
bfl
The left has been very very successful changing American culture by pushing for gradual changes.
The conservatives give in time after time. IMO its partly their conservative nature and partly because they aren’t organized.
A few people insist we go back to the cultural norms of 100 years ago in one fell swoop. There is no way to do that without an extremely violent civil war.
People like this make it easy for the left to discredit more rational gun owners. Arguing this guys behavior is about freedom only advances the causes of the left.
lfb
So where have you been for 35 years?
Your generation allowed the leftists to take control of the education system and many of the changes that have happened since.
lol
Calling me a liar without explaining yourself only deserves ridicule.
You are correct!
The conservatives give in time after time. IMO its partly their conservative nature and partly because they aren’t organized.
I have been preaching the same here on FR for quite some time but usually not as succinctly. I get verbose at times.
When did I do that? "bfl" is an acronym for "Bump For Later", nothing more.
L
That being said, a weapon like the one in the article doesn't strike me as being much good, unless it has an attachable stock. Too heavy for a pistol, and not accurate enough for a rifle, I'd think. I've never fired one though, wonder if any Freepers could comment?
Scrolling though the comments, I think that this guy's actions .... while legal .... were completely irresponsible. I've heard of painting the end of a shotgun (helps for a quick aim), but I can't imagine why you'd make up a pistol/rifle to look like a toy.
If you knew what my attitude is, you could judge from it. You don’t, so you can’t.
“Acting irresponsibly is not ‘freedom’ it is irresponsible.”
Freedom means, so long as you do not physically harm or threaten to harm anyone else or their property, you can be as irresponsible as you like. Sorry so many people think freedom means everybody has to live the way they would like them to.
“Duty to those around you,” is socialism. Sorry, there is no such duty in a free country.
When I was young, no decent person would ever have used a disgusting expression like that. But then, people weren’t afraid of freedom, or of being totally responsible for themselves and their own lives. The idea in those days was, nobody owed you anything and you made it on your own, or didn’t make it.
I really do not think you know what freedom is, and I really think you would be afraid to live in a country that is truly free. I don’t blame you for that, but it is sad. By the way, my “happiness” is not determined by circumstances, and I wish you the happiness I enjoy, in my freedom, because my freedom does not depend on circumstances either. Circumstances and today’s oppressive government just make it more difficult.
Hank
His actions point out a glaring disconnect in law enforcement and the gun community both.
The cops had no idea what was "legal" and gun forums are so terrified of their liberal enemies that they'd toss one of their own to the wolves faster than you can spit.
Ain't nothing like preemptive surrender to embolden ones enemies.
“Yeah, I commented before I saw the pic.”
I had the same thought before I saw the picture and read enough to realize it was a real firearm.
Collecting firearms is a worthy cause but these look like junk and of no use for anything.
My apologies, I thought you meant I was lying.
Good post...
‘Freedom means, so long as you do not physically harm or threaten to harm anyone else or their property, you can be as irresponsible as you like’
But he was around other people and he was having an effect on them. Under your definition you can run around carrying a gun and threaten to kill someone. Until you actually shoot them you are just exercising your ‘freedom’.
“When I was young, no decent person would ever have used a disgusting expression like that”
Duty, honor, country ring a bell? Old and stupid eh.
“I really do not think you know what freedom is, and I really think you would be afraid to live in a country that is truly free. “
Living in anarchy with idiots like this running around is kinda scary. Even in the old days people behaving irresponsibly would be arrested and thrown in jail. In the old days that is just what would have happened to a guy running around scaring people.
No harm, no foul.
Happy New Year.
Best,
L
Doesn't mean I think you are an idiot for wanting to own one.
Happy New Year to you as well. Haven’t seen you around lately.
“Doesn’t mean I think you are an idiot for wanting to own one..”
I didn’t say he was an idiot for wanting to own one. Although I can think of many better uses for the money.
He’s an idiot for his behavior. IMHO his actions are not about gun rights or freedom. Its about him getting attention and feeding his ego.
LOL.
Hang on my friend. I have a feeling the right is going to get a lot rougher soon and there is no off switch.
IMO, they are. His actions point out a glaring failure on the part of Law Enforcement to know where their authority ends. It also points out that those who are supposedly on the side of RKBA that are only for THEIR brand of RKBA. Anything falling outside of their narrow little world view is automatically "bad" and gives the Left an open invitation to restrict our Rights further.
This is no different than Rosa Parks sitting at the front of the bus. And yes, the corollary fits.
Exactly, however, I think that as a gun owner/hunter/whatever this guy is .... he has the duty to act responsibly within his rights. For instance, it's completely legal for me to clip past the playground in my neighborhood at 45 mph. However, when there's a bunch of kids running around, and dogs, and teens on bikes, and moms out with strollers....I slow down and keep a close eye out. It's just the right thing to do.
It's a question of responsibility versus legality. I'm not sure how it would be, or even if it should be, enforceable. From the comments on this thread, it sounds like this guy has been made into a pariah, and that's likely the best that can be done.
It only takes one fool to make everyone look bad, IMHO.
From what I've read, he was. He didn't brandish it at anyone, didn't act menacing towards anyone, and was well within his Rights.
When confronted by Rangers and Law Enforcement, it doesn't sound like he acted belligerently, complied with all legal requests, and knew his Rights.
A legal gun owner acting within the letter of the Law and within his Rights and you think "making him into a pariah" is "the best that can be done".
Are you SURE you've thought this all the way through? Really?
THe issue of painting your gun to look like a toy is separate from the issue of open carry, at least for me. I don’t see how criticizing a person for trying to make their gun look like a toy threatens to erode our 2nd amendment gun rights.
I support open carry of weapons, and think that if people did it more often, it would become less of an issue.
Gun rights are under attack, and taking actions that needlessly stir up opposition to gun rights seems quite counterproductive to me. Our rights ARE threatened, and encouraging those who threaten our rights is not a wise thing.
Yes, we all played with guns as kids, and none of us got shot, but then we didn’t live in a crime-infested housing unit where gangs used children to run drugs and commit armed robbery and other felonious acts.
I don’t believe my children were ever in any danger of being shot by police for having realistic-looking weapons either.
But apparently there are places in our country, mostly liberal bastions where guns were banned, in which children WERE shot by police. Did making the guns less realistic help matters? I don’t know, I guess not, and I also guess that smart criminals would have given the gun-running children weapons painted to look like toys, if it mattered in the least bit.
But the fight over 2nd amendment rights has nothing to do with the fight over whether kids should be allowed to play with realistic toy guns. The 2nd amendment does not protect the rights of a 5-year-old to have an authentic-looking ak-47 to play with. Government shouldn’t interfere in such things, but it’s not a 2nd-amendment issue, and those fighting for 2nd-amendment rights should not allow themselves to be distracted into tangential and unproductive fights over unrelated matters.
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A self loading pistol that looks like the old Thompson sub-machine gun.
It’s cute, but I’m still not trading in my 10mm for a carry piece. ;-)
Exactly.
Can’t tell if it’s a “pistol” or an AK with no shoulder stock as there is no scale. The foregrip looks short, though. I know there are AR “pistols”, why not AK?
Learn something new everyday.
>If this guy wasn’t breaking any laws, what really is the problem? <
When some kid is shot and killed by a paranoid cop because of his toy gun, get back to us.
Toy guns have orange painted tips to make them easy to identify. I think this idiot needs to be the guest of honor at an all-out blanket party.
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