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Tennessee gun in park incident reveals a scarier danger
Gun Rights Examiner ^ | 26 December, 2009 | David Codrea

Posted on 12/28/2009 3:51:18 AM PST by marktwain

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To: Mind-numbed Robot

Are the majority of anti gun cops you know a younger bunch? Just curious. When I was on the job, cops my age weren’t anti gun. It also depended on where they were from.


101 posted on 12/28/2009 8:36:29 AM PST by Scotsman will be Free (11C - Indirect fire, infantry - High angle hell - We will bring you, FIRE)
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To: Scotsman will be Free
Can’t tell if it’s a “pistol” or an AK with no shoulder stock as there is no scale. The foregrip looks short, though. I know there are AR “pistols”, why not AK? Learn something new everyday.

The Romanian "Draco" AK variant is indeed considered a pistol, under the law. It does have a shorter handguard and gas tube. One advantage to its legal classification is that it doesn't have to be imported as a parts kit and assembled on a US-made receiver. It arrives as a complete firearm.

I have one, but haven't been able to take it out and fire it, yet. It's pretty small, but will hold standard AK mags. I plan to get a drum magazine for mine because I like the look.

102 posted on 12/28/2009 8:44:34 AM PST by SIDENET ("If that's your best, your best won't do." -Dee Snider)
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To: SIDENET

Thanks for the info.


103 posted on 12/28/2009 8:49:07 AM PST by Scotsman will be Free (11C - Indirect fire, infantry - High angle hell - We will bring you, FIRE)
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To: calex59

Well said!


104 posted on 12/28/2009 10:07:59 AM PST by beltfed308 (Heller: The defining moment of our Republic)
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To: Dead Corpse

Has there ever been a time where some strange guy wandering through a park scaring women and children WOULDN’T be hassled by the police?


105 posted on 12/28/2009 10:18:46 AM PST by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: CharlesWayneCT

At the end of the day the people he encountered did not go home thinking of the fun they had. That they happened to encounter a responsible person openly and legally carrying a firearm.

They went home thinking all gun owners must be whacko. He only reinforced their liberal views.


106 posted on 12/28/2009 10:23:35 AM PST by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: driftdiver
From the guys account on the linked to AR15.com thread, he passed maybe 30 some odd people. None of which freaked out.

It wasn't until a park Ranger stopped him to talk about his carry piece that things got interesting. Even then, the original Park Ranger only asked to see his permit than let him go.

You are making assumptions not in evidence.

Find us one example of this supposed multitude of people who feared for their lives from this guy.

Just one. Shouldn't be too hard for you... We'll wait.

107 posted on 12/28/2009 10:29:54 AM PST by Dead Corpse (III)
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To: Dead Corpse

“You are making assumptions not in evidence.”

You’re making decisions based on his account. Other accounts point out that he was causing a ruckus.

“Find us one example of this supposed multitude of people who feared for their lives from this guy.”

No.

“Just one. Shouldn’t be too hard for you... We’ll wait.”

Go for it skippy


108 posted on 12/28/2009 10:32:36 AM PST by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: driftdiver
No.

Your entire argument is based on the premise that this guy was scaring the sheep. But you can't name one and refuse to even try.

IOW... You can't prove your assertion and refuse to even try.

Face it, the other posters on this thread have you nailed dead to rights. The thought of real, messy, sometimes scary freedom makes you mess your lacy unmentionables doesn't it...

109 posted on 12/28/2009 10:39:07 AM PST by Dead Corpse (III)
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To: Dead Corpse

“Your entire argument is based on the premise that this guy was scaring the sheep.”

Just because someone finds an irrational man who is armed to be scary does not make them a sheep.

“But you can’t name one and refuse to even try.”

No I refused to do your bidding.

“The thought of real, messy, sometimes scary freedom makes you mess your lacy unmentionables doesn’t it...”

Go ahead and do it your way, we can see how successful your crowd has been. Law after law has been passed further infringing on our 2nd amendment rights. The only progress to be made has been by people using the incremental change process.

unlike your crowd I don’t wear ladies underwear and bluster and bluff to look strong.


110 posted on 12/28/2009 10:44:41 AM PST by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: driftdiver

“Duty, honor, country ring a bell?”

Nowadays, “the good of the country” means “the good of the government.” Neither I or anyone else owes anything to the government. The government exists for the people, not the people for the government. You can server and honor Obama and the leftist thugs running the country if you like, but please don’t tell those of us who love freedom and what this country was meant to be that it is honorable to defend that pack of vultures.

“Living in anarchy with idiots like this running around is kinda scary.”

Yes, I know. There are all kinds of “scary” things in the world, and we need big daddy government to take care of us or we’ll all be frightened out of our wits.

This really is the age of gullibility and paranoia. And they didn’t put people in jail, when I was young for carrying a scary gun around and minding their own business. On the fourth of July a lot of people even shot their guns. No one was afraid, and no one was put in jail. You really do not know what freedom is.

I have no idea what that character’s motives were, but it doesn’t matter. So long as he was minding his own business, everybody else should have minded their own business. If anyone is afraid of what someone else is doing, when they are minding their own business, it’s their own paranoia that is the cause of their fear, not the other’s actions. Have we really come to the place that none of us can do anything that might frighten some neurotic? They really did used to lock people like that up—the were called crazy people, because they were afraid of every strange or different thing.

Hank


111 posted on 12/28/2009 12:18:39 PM PST by Hank Kerchief
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To: Hank Kerchief

dementia is a terrible thing


112 posted on 12/28/2009 12:23:16 PM PST by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: driftdiver
Just because someone finds an irrational man who is armed to be scary does not make them a sheep.

We have only your opinion that he is irrational. Do you know him? Are you his doctor? Have you sat on the bench that adjudicated him mentally deficient? Over 80 million of us are armed. An ever increasing number of us carry. Does this fact scare you? Going from your writings... one would be led to believe so.

No I refused to do your bidding.

You made the assertion, it is up to you to prove it. I'm calling you a liar. Back up your claim or STFU.

Go ahead and do it your way, we can see how successful your crowd has been.

"My crowd" is the Alan Gura crowd. The SAF crowd. The Lifetime NRA Member crowd. Those working to make it easier for "scary" folks to carry personal arms as it is their Constitutionally protected Right to do so.

Pusillanimous little whiners like you are the ones that "compromise" our Rights away while decrying your betters.

113 posted on 12/28/2009 1:09:15 PM PST by Dead Corpse (III)
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To: Dead Corpse

‘Going from your writings... one would be led to believe so.”

What is it with you twits. You can’t come up with a rational argument so you start accusing people of being afraid. Can’t you come up with an adult argument.

Of course I’m afraid of a irrational person with a firearm. Any person that doesn’t have some level of fear of being shot by some crazy armed twit they are facing is nuts themselves.

Your crowd is the bunch that has nearly lost our 2nd amendment rights by placating the gun banners. Your crowd has allowed the communists to take control of our schools, our govt and many of our businesses. Good job there sport.


114 posted on 12/28/2009 1:34:36 PM PST by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: Dead Corpse
Find us one example of this supposed multitude of people who feared for their lives from this guy.

I don't understand why you ask this question.

The article we are commenting on here is based on the reports of people being afraid when they saw the guy. So if you read the article, you HAVE the examples.

Or, if you went one step beyond just reading the article we were commenting on, you would have read the AP story it was based on, and seen things such as this:

Ellen Thomas told WSMV-TV she was hiking an upper trail when she encountered 37-year-old Leonard Embody wearing a camouflage jacket, military boots and a black skull cap. She called the encounter "scary."
OK, so that's one, named and publicly reported.

You'd also know that the REASON the Park Ranger stopped him was because people had complained to the Park Rangers:

NASHVILLE — A man carrying an AK-47-style semiautomatic pistol was detained at Radnor Lake State Park on Sunday after startled hikers complained to park rangers.

115 posted on 12/28/2009 1:49:54 PM PST by CharlesWayneCT
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To: CharlesWayneCT

Check out some of the gun boards he posted on. Get both sides of the story instead of just the AP’s.


116 posted on 12/28/2009 4:07:16 PM PST by Dead Corpse (III)
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To: driftdiver

Yeah, it’s all my fault. You got me good there sport. I’m the one that thinks gun classes need to be taught in grade school, but in your world “scary” people don’t get to carry guns.

Moron...


117 posted on 12/28/2009 4:09:59 PM PST by Dead Corpse (III)
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To: driftdiver; Tolsti2; babygene
admittedly i didnt bother to read the article, but the whole argument by everyone is purely circular...

if everything the guy did was legal, and the open carry of a gun painted to resemble a toy is 'scary' to the panty wetters [including the cops] and should be banned 'for the children', then weve all been duped by a guy who just seeks attention and the thugs who responded...

prolly confused me more than you guys with this obtuse rant...

118 posted on 12/28/2009 6:59:47 PM PST by Gilbo_3 (Gov is not reason; not eloquent; its force.Like fire,a dangerous servant & master. George Washington)
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To: driftdiver; Dead Corpse
Has there ever been a time where some strange guy wandering through a park scaring women and children WOULDN’T be hassled by the police

the whole point is the whole 'scaring' part is a problem of the wimmen and chilrun not knowing the 'law'...he did nothin to scare them...

is it stooopid and over the top ??? well hellyeah, but so is painting the ends of toys orange, cause we all know that a criminal would never use the law to his advantage...

119 posted on 12/28/2009 7:18:37 PM PST by Gilbo_3 (Gov is not reason; not eloquent; its force.Like fire,a dangerous servant & master. George Washington)
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To: All

http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum50/35641-2.html


120 posted on 12/28/2009 7:27:58 PM PST by freedomwarrior998
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To: Gilbo_3

“the whole point is the whole ‘scaring’ part is a problem of the wimmen and chilrun not knowing the ‘law’...he did nothin to scare them...”

So your position is that we need a law for everything? He certainly did do something to scare them. He was openly carrying a firearm in a manner that is very unusual. This was a glock in a holster after all. Further he doctored the firearm so that it would resemble a toy.

“but so is painting the ends of toys orange”

The issue here isn’t the law regarding toy guns. That is currently the norm for toys.

Or are you suggesting he did this because he thinks toys shouldn’t have orange tips on them?


121 posted on 12/28/2009 7:30:20 PM PST by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: Gilbo_3

Again, are you suggesting we should have a law for everything a person might do?

At the end of the day people went home thinking how crazy gun owners are and not that gun owners are responsible. In the end that hurts all gunowners.


122 posted on 12/28/2009 7:32:38 PM PST by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: Dead Corpse

That would actually be work. I’m commenting on the article posted. Do you have reason to doubt that the Park Ranger came because people in the park reported the gunman?


123 posted on 12/28/2009 7:40:16 PM PST by CharlesWayneCT
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To: Scotsman will be Free

Yes, they are a younger bunch. In addition to that I have a problem with the whole law enforcement philosophy seemingly changing. It starts with the training of new recruits. It seems all predicated on protecting themselves and their colleagues rather than serving the public. Much of it is exercises concerning fire or don’t fire with realistic simulations. That seems innocent enough in itself but when you see traffic stops with a passive perp laying on the ground and six cops around him with guns drawn and pointed directly at the passive perp you wonder why the shrill attitude and why they consider the perp a threat. It is a wonder more innocent people don
t get killed by guns being accidentally discharged..

That breeds an attitude of “me above you”.

That is the main point so no need to bring up exceptions to dispute what I say. I am talking specifically about an attitude of us above the public which is being instilled through training.


124 posted on 12/28/2009 7:41:26 PM PST by Mind-numbed Robot (Not all that needs to be done needs to be done by the government)
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To: driftdiver
At the end of the day people went home thinking how crazy gun owners are and not that gun owners are responsible. In the end that hurts all gunowners.

sorry but i cant agree that this is the problem...for me the greater problem is that this guy, although a possible tool/loose screw, was no real threat to them, yet they were instinctively compelled to call upon their saviours for protection...

that mindset, fomented by commie indoctrination from decades passed, has instilled a fear that is basically holding these people captive to their own minds and imaginations...

me and my family in that park have choices, but runnin for the nearest ranger is waaaaaaaaaaay down the list...

for those people who think its the first response, may they please bubble wrap themselves and stay inside behind locked doors where the world is marginally safer in reality, but MUCH safer in their own minds...

beyond that, Im sure the 'anarchist' label will shortly be thrown about, but the reality is that we have lost all manner of freedom with the encyclopedias of laws to wade thru as citizens...

it was never meant to be this way, original intent was that every layman 'knew' the law...

used to be 'ignorance of the law was no excuse', because the laws were few and simple and common sense...ie 'do unto others...'

its been bastardized into 'knowledge of the law' is disturbed and aggressive behaviour...

no wonder we have a muslim commie in the whitehut...

125 posted on 12/28/2009 8:37:34 PM PST by Gilbo_3 (Gov is not reason; not eloquent; its force.Like fire,a dangerous servant & master. George Washington)
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To: Mind-numbed Robot
It is a wonder more innocent people don t get killed by guns being accidentally discharged..

give it a couple more generations...once the current classes get to be the mentors, those new youngins will be very scary indeed...

126 posted on 12/28/2009 8:41:01 PM PST by Gilbo_3 (Gov is not reason; not eloquent; its force.Like fire,a dangerous servant & master. George Washington)
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To: Gilbo_3

“yet they were instinctively compelled to call upon their saviours for protection...”

And thats why the left continues to make progress. You continue to ignore reality and insult these people when it is their cultural norm. Everything they have been taught is that this kind of behavior is abnormal and dangerous. He did everything he could to reinforce that except shoot someone.


127 posted on 12/28/2009 8:41:03 PM PST by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: driftdiver
You continue to ignore reality and insult these people when it is their cultural norm.

reality is that the man didnt do anything illegal, or threatening towards these poor cultural retards...

im no social worker, and I dont think that a calm lecture about the current laws in their neighborhood will penetrate their vulnerable simple minds, unless its to make them realize that they need to outlaw simple open carry, or outlaw evil 'assault weapons'...or outlaw wearing camo outside of woods...or outlaw camo inside woods... or outlaw orange paint...or outlaw gun possession in parks...or outlaw gun possession in general...

to talk down to me about offending their assbackwards sensitivities in the name of s-l-o-w change is the insult...

what about the possibility of a bunch of those peolpe present actually learning that the 'pistol' he was carrying was completely legal and obtainable, as well as the Right to carry ???

Id rather that a few people realize they have Rights, and become active in the exercise thereof...

in the realm of black guns, this is basically what happened to me, I merely needed to meet someone who owned em and they said I could have it if I wanted it...the lightbulb came on and i educated myself...

novel concept, but it works overnight, rather than playin pattycake and being pc in an attempt not to shock their system...

I dont think we have decades to reverse the damage at this point...

my .02

128 posted on 12/28/2009 8:55:05 PM PST by Gilbo_3 (Gov is not reason; not eloquent; its force.Like fire,a dangerous servant & master. George Washington)
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To: Mind-numbed Robot

“...predicated on protecting themselves and their colleagues rather than serving the public.”
YES!!! Exactly so. Columbine was a prime example of this. I used to bitch at the training staff about their incessant chant about how going home at the end of the day was the ultimate goal. Perhaps I had an effect as they began training all officers in “active shooter” responses. More likely the embarrassment of Columbine spurred them. When I was a sergeant I taught my men that they were paid to take calculated risks. They seemed eager to grasp that concept and apply it.


129 posted on 12/29/2009 3:11:08 AM PST by Scotsman will be Free (11C - Indirect fire, infantry - High angle hell - We will bring you, FIRE)
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To: CharlesWayneCT
Now see? Here is something we can talk about... Was that so hard?

OK, so that's one, named and publicly reported.

She called the encounter "scary". Why? Because he was openly carrying a gun? I've seen people I thought were "scary" even though they did not appear to be armed. BFD.

Here's Embody's take on events from the ARFCOM thread:

I went to the Tennessee State Radnor Lake State Park this afternoon to take in some nature and get some exercise. I dressed in boots, blue jeans, t-shirt, vest, and an old military issue gore-tex woodland camo jacket. I carried my new Romanian Draco AK pistol loaded with 31 123 grain FMJ ammunition from Walmart. I arrived at approximately 3:30 pm and with the pistol slung on my back I started my walk. It was mostly uneventful. I saw no deer and passed maybe 30 hikers. As I reached the end of the trail I made sure no one was close by and shifted the ak-47 pistol to the front of my body. I reached the end of the trail and turned onto the roadway where I saw the first ranger of the day. He asked me if it was an airsoft and I said no it was an AK-47 type pistol. He looked at me strangely and asked to see my permit. I showed my Tennessee handgun carry permit. He asked where I parked and I told him. He said I could keep walking I kept walking as he called someone. By the time I reached my car the ranger was no where in sight as I walk quickly. However, another ranger vehicle pulled in the parking lot and a ranger jumped out with a shotgun pointed at me and yelled at me to stay still and put the weapon on the ground. After I put the weapon down he told me to move away which I did. He then told me to put my face on the ground and my arms on my head. I complied. I think he had a gun trained on me the whole time, but I couldn’t see. He searched me quickly and put my AK into the truck. This particular ranger has seen me before and has asked to see my TN handgun carry permit. He asked to see the permit again and asked for my driver license. I told him I would not give him my license, but he could see the permit.

Three Nashville metro cop cars showed up pretty quickly. They talked among themselves for about an hour and then a cop pulled out a citation for arrest. It said I was being arrested for 39-17-1311 unlawful possession of a weapon. He asked me to sign and I told him I wanted to speak with his supervisor. He said okay, but that it would take a long time and he just wanted to cite and release me for my convenience (yeah right). I asked what part of 39-17-1311 I violated he said I couldn’t carry a rifle. I told him my firearm was classified as a pistol. It has no stock and never had a stock. I also pointed out that it has an 11.5” barrel with complies with the length of a handgun definition in Tennessee. He said it looks like I had cut the stock off and another said they had never heard of a 7.62x39 handgun. It took about another ½ hour for the sergeant to show up. In the meantime one of the original cops left, another park ranger came and left and two more cops showed up. The sergeant showed and I tried to explain that the firearm was a handgun. I also told him if they were going to arrest me to just take me in front of the magistrate right away. They spent another ½ hour asking me if I had a form 1, that the ATF classifies my pistol as a rifle, and they had never seen an AK pistol before. Finally they told me they had gotten in touch with the manufacturer and the manufacturer said it indeed was a pistol. I highly doubt that, but that is what they told me. They released the handcuffs, and gave me back my magazine, ammo, and pistol.

I think they handled it as well as could be expected. I felt the cop who was trying to charge me with a violation of 39-17-1311 had no basis for the charge.

Does he sound like a dangerous criminal? Does it sound like he knew exactly what his Rights are and what the Law is?

I don't give a flying fig what some Sheeple have been conditioned to believe. People who go that far to know the law and what their Rights are do not commit crimes and are no danger.

Is Embody a poster child for RKBA. Probably not. Does he deserve a smack upside the head to set him straight on his carry choice? Probably.

BUT HE DID NOTHING WRONG. Period. End of story. Everyone just needs to get over it.

130 posted on 12/29/2009 5:52:00 AM PST by Dead Corpse (III)
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To: Dead Corpse

He is retarded. He must have been to flagrantly induce being arrested.


131 posted on 12/29/2009 5:55:50 AM PST by bert (K.E. N.P. +12 . Lukenbach Texas is barely there)
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To: bert
He wasn't arrested.

From another poster on the TN gun board:

A lot of you guys were screaming for park carry or for a "clean" carry law for restaurants with no restrictions, but the first time someone carries in an unorthodox manner, breaking no laws, you join forces with the anti's, screaming something has to be done. I have to admit, I'm amused by the irony.

Sometimes we are our own worst enemies, and I'm not just talking about Leonard. The media reports are loudly claiming that even the pro-gun websites are condemning his actions. They quote the guy from opencarry.com distancing them from him. The last thing we need is liberals thinking that surely we need more restrictions if even the pro-gun crowd agrees with us.

Let's stop shooting ourselves in the foot. Either we are for real RKBA, including stuff like this, or we aren't.

Which is it?

132 posted on 12/29/2009 6:05:00 AM PST by Dead Corpse (III)
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To: Dead Corpse

He doesn’t mention the tip of the gun being painted orange. That was what I have criticized him for. If he has a good explanation as to why he made his gun look like a toy (I wonder if that’s why the ranger thought it was an airsoft?).

Another freeper said that people found him scary, you asked for proof, I gave you proof. I did not agree that he was scary, just that people he encountered WERE scared, which is what you were arguing with the other freeper.

It makes no difference whether you or I find him scary. It makes no difference if he can WRITE in a way that makes him sound reasonable, the question was whether people who saw him that day found him scary.

I have no idea why the woman found him scary, or why several people who saw him contacted the rangers (as reported in the story).

It was interesting that the police didn’t think there was an AK pistol (I note that some freepers also didn’t believe that was true). It seemed clear from his write-up that he knew the pistol was unique, and he doesn’t seem to blame them for making sure he hadn’t sawed-off a gun (which I would guess is illegal).

If I were him, I might well carry some identifying papers showing the gun is a pistol, so that in the future he doesn’t have to go through this process again. And I would stop painting my guns to look like toys.

And if he actually did dress up like this specifically to get a reaction, he should consider whether he is really being helpful to whatever cause he feels strongly about.


133 posted on 12/29/2009 6:13:33 AM PST by CharlesWayneCT
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To: CharlesWayneCT
Another freeper said that people found him scary, you asked for proof, I gave you proof.

I did. The OP didn't appear to be reading any of the links provided. I just wanted him to do his own damn leg work to back up his excoriation of Embody.

It makes no difference whether you or I find him scary. It makes no difference if he can WRITE in a way that makes him sound reasonable, the question was whether people who saw him that day found him scary.

Being "scary" isn't an offense. I'm kinda scary looking if you squint a bit. BFD.

Liberal bedwetters don't want people armed. The guy could have been wearing a 3-piece Armani suit and had a platinum plated Kimber in a Natuzzi leather hostler. It wouldn't have mattered. "Man with gun=BAD" in their minds. Plenty of people in the park that day and the AP reporter could only find one? Further, if there was a real complaint made, the Rangers could have held either him or his firearm pending investigation. There wasn't. Just moron Po-bucker and his idiot choice of a carry arm. Fashion faux pas maybe. A crime? Not even close.

And if he actually did dress up like this specifically to get a reaction, he should consider whether he is really being helpful to whatever cause he feels strongly about.

What better way to point out the idiocy of some of the arbitrary and capricious laws like "toy gun orange", "assault weapon" misnomer, and the general cluelessness of LEO and general public alike?

Not the way most people would have done it, but then again... This incident does create a "teachable moment" if we choose to use it as such. If we just pile on Embody as the douche nozzle he redoubtably is, then we do the Anti-s work for them.

134 posted on 12/29/2009 7:34:32 AM PST by Dead Corpse (III)
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To: Scotsman will be Free
When I was a sergeant I taught my men that they were paid to take calculated risks.

God bless you. Many who choose law enforcement as a career do it for that purpose. Others do it just to get a job and some few do it for the authority and power they crave. Those are the ones who need the training you provided. Too bad some of the power-seekers eventually become the commanders and trainers.

They seemed eager to grasp that concept and apply it.

I suspect that all but a few will embrace the idea.

135 posted on 12/29/2009 7:45:07 AM PST by Mind-numbed Robot (Not all that needs to be done needs to be done by the government)
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To: Dead Corpse

“”Man with gun=BAD” in their minds...”
That’s why everyone ought to carry. Then if he was “bad” they could deal with it.


136 posted on 12/29/2009 8:15:58 AM PST by Scotsman will be Free (11C - Indirect fire, infantry - High angle hell - We will bring you, FIRE)
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To: Scotsman will be Free
I agree. You'd think it would fall under some kind of sense we all had in common. ;-)

I wonder if the folks in that park would have been equally alarmed had Embody been carrying a pistol variant of this:

People do all kinds of things with their firearms.

Not my bag of tea, but whatever trips your trigger. It is your RIGHT. We either support that Right, or we will most assuredly LOSE that Right.

Yes. Even for the Embody's of the world.

137 posted on 12/29/2009 8:23:29 AM PST by Dead Corpse (III)
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To: Dead Corpse

“It is your RIGHT.”
Yup, exactly so. Before a huge percentage of americans became pussies you pretty much did what you wanted as long as you didn’t infringe on others. If you infringed too much they hung your a$$.
Works for me.


138 posted on 12/29/2009 8:27:30 AM PST by Scotsman will be Free (11C - Indirect fire, infantry - High angle hell - We will bring you, FIRE)
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To: Scotsman will be Free
That was back before we started charging people with crimes they "might" do instead of what they were either provably planning on doing or actually done.

Things have pretty much been downhill since then.

No victim? No crime. When we started letting the Law itself stand as accuser/victim, we lost that whole "justice" thing we were once so proud of.

Rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others. I do not add 'within the limits of the law' because law is often but the tyrant's will, and always so when it violates the rights of the individual. - Thomas Jefferson

139 posted on 12/29/2009 9:46:28 AM PST by Dead Corpse (III)
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To: Dead Corpse; Scotsman will be Free
Rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others. I do not add 'within the limits of the law' because law is often but the tyrant's will, and always so when it violates the rights of the individual. - Thomas Jefferson

thanks DC for this quote, and to you both for realizing that our Rights must be defended every time, not just when its convenient...

140 posted on 12/29/2009 1:36:24 PM PST by Gilbo_3 (Gov is not reason; not eloquent; its force.Like fire,a dangerous servant & master. George Washington)
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To: Gilbo_3
Everybody is someone else's "undesirable" person. If we don't protect the Rights of people, even like this guy, then none of our Rights are inviolate.

This plays out time and again. The same attitudes be it drugs, religion, political speech, alcohol, clothing fashions, property Rights, or damn near anything else.

Is it ridiculous to carry an AK pistol? Yes. Is it his Right? Yes!

If not then we draw an arbitrary line that those in political power can use to take even more from us.

The NFA started out as a simple tax on certain classes of firearms. It has since been expanded to be an outright ban on many classes of firearms and has spawned one of the most unConstitutional enforcement agencies in our Nations history: The BATFE.

At each stage of encroachment there are those who refuse to hold the line. To compromise. It's an attitude that is part of a greater malaise. A willingness to be nibbled to death as fighting the good fight on "fringe" topics like those raised by Embody is just too much effort.

141 posted on 12/29/2009 1:57:23 PM PST by Dead Corpse (III)
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To: Mind-numbed Robot

Know what the sad thing was? Most of my men said that there were no more sergeants like me. I was the last of the Mohicans, as it were. This was a fairly large agency. They used to kid me about where I kept my saber, muzzle loader and horse. When I started in LE there were lots of policemen who taught me the same things that I later taught my men. As the years passed, there were less and less of them and more of the risk aversion types. It’s too bad.


142 posted on 12/30/2009 3:21:38 AM PST by Scotsman will be Free (11C - Indirect fire, infantry - High angle hell - We will bring you, FIRE)
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To: All

Tennessee laws are strict regarding handgun carry. Most all carry is illegal, tca 39-17-1307. Police in TN have harrassed me for open carring. I carry legally and will defend my rights. Many who have wrote on this thread don’t seem to understand freedom and the Second Amendment. It’s unfortunate.


143 posted on 08/08/2010 6:33:07 PM PDT by kwikrnu
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