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1.7 Billion Reasons to Defend Pat Robertson
Christian Newswire ^ | 1/13/10 | Gary L. Cass, Christian Anti-Defamation Commission

Posted on 01/14/2010 1:17:00 PM PST by ZGuy

It is excruciating to see the images of human suffering emanating from Haiti in the aftermath of the devastating earthquake. Prayers and practical compassionate care is truly needed.

But sometimes things are said in the midst of crises that exacerbate the already raw feelings of grieving people. So then what's all the fuss about Pat Robertson's remarks?

I first knew something was up while driving yesterday. I heard two national conservative talk radio personalities make some disparaging remarks about Pat Robertson, who, by the way, is one of the reasons they even have jobs. Pat was one of the most important leaders of a resurgent conservative movement.

When I got home I immediately looked up what Pat said and I was overwhelmed. But not by what Robertson had said, rather by the hype and hysteria of those who took an expression of genuine concern and hope for Haiti's future and used it to bash Pat.

Last week it was Fox News analyst Brett Hume's turn to be attacked because he dared to compassionately urge Tiger Woods to turn to Christianity and find forgiveness and redemption. Now it's Pat Robertson's turn.

Perhaps what we have here is a simple failure to communicate, but then again, what Pat said was not complicated. Or is it that there is so much contempt against Pat Robertson and /or what he represents, that no benefit of the doubt is to be afforded him? Or is there something else in play.

What exactly did Pat say that was so terribly egregious?

First he retold a very familiar story about the history of Haiti about a pact that was made by its revolutionary leaders. In exchange for help in throwing out the French Haiti would serve satan. Some have disputed this ever happened. But what is indisputable is Haiti's history ever since then has been one of incredible suffering.

To use Pat's words, Haiti's history was, "cursed, desperately poor." Then Pat went on to describe the incredible economic disparity between Haiti, which sits on one side of the Island of Hispaniola, and the Dominican Republic on the other side. So was Pat using "cursed" literally or metaphorically?

The modern cynic chaffs at any suggestion that there may be a connection between historical realities and unseen spiritual influences, or as the Bible calls it God's "blessing or cursing." Although most people are very comfortable with the notion that God blesses people, we are not at all comforted with the terrifying prospect that Almighty God might also curse.

The overwhelming majority of Americans believe in God and /or moral causality. Eastern religions call it Karma, but Christians call it God's Providence. I wonder if the reason that so many hate Pat is because he expressed what many Americans don't want to face- the moral and spiritual dimension of our lives.

As long as everything is going well we live as if we are never going to die. Then crisis hits and death slaps us in the face. Rather than humbling ourselves and searching our hearts like the Pilgrims did, we lash out at God and anyone who dares insinuate Him into our lives.

What the Robertson bashers left out is that finally, and with great compassion and concern in his voice, Pat said, "They need to have, and we need to pray for them, a great turning to God and out of this tragedy I am optimistic that some good thing may come, but right now we are helping the suffering people and the suffering is unimaginable."

Agree or disagree with what Pat said, it was well within the bounds of historic Christian theology. Maybe that's the real problem after all.

Man is offended by the fact that he is not God. They resent God's Providence. A simple reading of the Bible shows how God uses natural disasters to further his purposes. Earthquakes, floods, famine, locusts, etc. they're all there, but man hates it. Rather than humbly acknowledging that God's ways are not our ways, man rails against and accuses God. The last thing they will do is cry out for his mercy in Jesus Christ.

So Pat is an easy target. But before you judge him perhaps you ought to know that the whole time he was making these comments they had the number on their screen for their viewers to give to their humanitarian relief organization Operation Blessing. OB has already been at work in Haiti long before the earthquake.

Operation Blessing has touched the lives of more than 209.3 million people in 105 countries and all 50 states, providing goods and services valued at more than $1.7 billion. So, once you have surpassed that, then you will be in a better place to judge Pat Robertson. In the meantime, let's do what Pat is doing and bless the poor people of Haiti.


TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: 700club; beauvoir; devilpact; earthquake; haiti; haitianearthquake; haitiearthquake; haitiquake; haitiquake2010; maxbeauvoir; operationblessing; pactwithdevil; patrobertson; robertson; voodoo; voodoosuprememaster; voudon
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To: Theo
I've seen it already, and his comment after 9/11 blaming it on gays and abortion. Televangelist charalatans, whatever good they might do for some people, also do a lot of bad by giving Christians and Christianity a bad name. IMHO

If you think Pat's a great guy, that's your HO.

51 posted on 01/14/2010 1:48:31 PM PST by DTogo (High time to bring back the Sons of Liberty !!)
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To: ZGuy

Pat said, “They need to have, and we need to pray for them, a great turning to God and out of this tragedy I am optimistic that some good thing may come, but right now we are helping the suffering people and the suffering is unimaginable.”

Thank you for posting that. In all the coverage I have seen, this comment and conclusion have not been mentioned. It is significant.

If any one of us gets a sentence or statement pulled from a paragraph or greater opinion we give, it can be twisted to mean almost anything. This may indeed have happened to Pat.


52 posted on 01/14/2010 1:48:38 PM PST by Marie2 (The second mouse gets the cheese.)
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To: Westbrook
who don’t have Rolexes, who don’t wear Armani merino and silk, who don’t have chauffer driven limos to take them to their gated

Stereotype much?

53 posted on 01/14/2010 1:48:51 PM PST by Siena Dreaming
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To: Westbrook
Did they also make a pact with the devil?

Where have I heard this tactic before.

Tell me, is this how you share your faith?

54 posted on 01/14/2010 1:49:08 PM PST by skeeter
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To: Theo

Im going to go out on a limb and bet the Jesus Christ in heaven is cringing and wincing at Robertson’s statement and some of the comments on FR justifying what this elf like toad said.


55 posted on 01/14/2010 1:50:50 PM PST by DogBarkTree
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To: ZGuy
Anything one sees about Haiti usually refers to zombies, murder and drug trafficking. Maybe Pat is on track with what he says here?
56 posted on 01/14/2010 1:51:36 PM PST by zbogwan2
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To: ZGuy

It’s time to lay the blame for this tragedy where it truly belongs . . .

John 10:10 “The thief does not come except to steal, and to kill, and to destroy. I have come that they may have life, and that they may have it more abundantly.”

I believe the enemy of mankind (Satan) and the demonic realm are ultimately behind this terrible destruction in Haiti - not God.

When we (as individuals or a nation) turn away from Almighty God and the Lord Jesus Christ, the Bible does list various negative consequences (Deuteronomy 28:15-68 for example). When God’s hand of protection is removed from a person’s life because of continued disobedience or rebellion, the enemy can come in like a flood and cause a host of problems. God does not cause these tragedies, but He will use them in this broken world to bring people back to Him - because He loves us and wants us back.

Is it fair that in this process innocent people are hurt? Of course not, but realize that this world is a fallen world, polluted by sin, and Satan and his demons don’t play fair. They are wicked, fallen spiritual beings that are bent on the destruction of the human race - in any way possible.

However, born-again Christians have nothing to fear from the demonic realm, as the Lord Jesus has given us power and authority over all the power of the enemy (Luke 10:19). As a minister of the Gospel, I’ve prayed with and led hundreds of people in deliverance sessions (exorcisms) over the last 14 years - and demons ALWAYS flee in the name of Jesus.

So is God to blame for this Hatian tragedy? Of course not. God loves everyone and is very patient towards us, working to bring us to a place of repentance and faith in Him. Is the devil and the demonic realm to blame? Ultimately yes, to a certain degree.

What needs to be done? The people in Haiti need help now with physical needs - food, clothing, and shelter - love of God in action. Many also need help with spiritual needs - the life and freedom only experienced through a personal relationship with Jesus Christ (John 3:16, Romans 10:9-10).


57 posted on 01/14/2010 1:51:56 PM PST by Lions Gate
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To: Siena Dreaming

> Stereotype much?

Do you deny that ole Pat lives large from the donations wrung out of mostly poor folks?

Do you deny that the missionaries and pastors in Haiti who lived in poverty and died with their CHRISTIAN flocks are condemned along with the witch doctors according to Pat’s assessment of God’s judgement?


58 posted on 01/14/2010 1:54:22 PM PST by Westbrook (Having more children does not divide your love, it multiplies it.)
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To: muawiyah
Being a nominal Catholic in one of the world's poorest countries doesn't make you immune from the attraction of the ancient religion of your ancestors.

Nor does being a nominal Christian in one of the world's richest countries.

59 posted on 01/14/2010 1:55:02 PM PST by Romulus (The Traditional Latin Mass is the real Youth Mass)
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To: skeeter

> Did they also make a pact with the devil?
> Where have I heard this tactic before.
>
> Tell me, is this how you share your faith?

I don’t understand.

Let me re-phrase.

If Pat says that Haiti is cursed because their ancestors made a pact with the Devil, then what about the Christian missionaries who died there along with their Christian congregations? Are they also considered by Pat as under the same curse as the signers of this hearsay pact?


60 posted on 01/14/2010 1:59:19 PM PST by Westbrook (Having more children does not divide your love, it multiplies it.)
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To: ZGuy

Robertson is another Cato, warning the rest of the Romans...futile, after so many of them have moved in from Europe over the past 150 years.


61 posted on 01/14/2010 1:59:43 PM PST by familyop (cbt. engr. (cbt), NG, '89-' 96, Duncan Hunter or no-vote.)
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To: Theo; ZGuy

http://www.cbn.com/media/player/index.aspx?s=/Archive/Club/700Club011310_WS&search=700ClubEpisodes&p=1&parent=0&subnav=false

Thanks, Theo, for posting this link.

Most of the broadcast is about the help that is rolling into Haiti, about the help that was already there before the quake, and the people organizing to get more help on the ground and now.

The remark about Haiti’s founding fathers was one line of a long report on disaster relief. If you know Haiti’s history you’ll know that their history is horrifying. Its easy to imagine what happens to a country when the ruling class is addicted to a murderous form of Marxism; imagine a country in which until recent years the ruling class was addicted to a murderous religion. Read the history. Read about Duvalier Senior, and his predecessors. It is no surprise that Haiti is a non-stop horrorshow.

Obviously the press is going to focus on Robertson’s remark about Haiti’s founding, but they aren’t going to repeat anything he said about the aid that is on the way. And they aren’t going to talk about how Haiti came to be the way it is. Not just its founding, but two hundred years of a circular nightmare.

If you understand the relationship between prosperity and rule of law, none of this should be surprising. And the way out for Haiti should be clear.


62 posted on 01/14/2010 2:00:51 PM PST by marron
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To: ZGuy

As I’ve said on other threads...people seem not to change...in the days of old Israelites stoned the prophets ‘cuz they didn’t like what they heard or agreed with...this is no different...so let’s stone him...


63 posted on 01/14/2010 2:01:09 PM PST by shield (A wise man's heart is at his RIGHT hand;but a fool's heart at his LEFT. Ecc 10:2)
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To: ZGuy

Pat’s an idiot and the person that wrote this is coming off as the Christian version of CAIR.
We have enough crap flying from leftists toward Christians, we don’t need either of these people shoveling more crap to be thrown back.


64 posted on 01/14/2010 2:03:27 PM PST by arealconservativeforachange (Tell JD Hayworth to run for McCain's seat! http://www.jdhayworth.com/contact.php)
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To: Westbrook
My last sentence wasn't appropriate & I apologize.

If you had read my previous posts, you'd know I wasn't defending Robertson's comments, neither was I condemning them. Youre asking me to explain the unexplainable - I don't know and neither do you - and I won't even try.

I was saying that by allowing the other side to shame & embarrass you with the words of another you are playing into their hands.

Why allow them that power? Robertson didn't bind your hands, you did.

65 posted on 01/14/2010 2:05:22 PM PST by skeeter
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To: ZGuy

Not only was the “historical” information WRONG but what Robertson missed was an opportunity to compare a free nation ( relatively speaking anyway) to one run by dictators ( Dominican Republic vs the Duvalier ridden Haiti)


66 posted on 01/14/2010 2:15:41 PM PST by the long march
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To: skeeter

> Why allow them that power? Robertson didn’t bind your
> hands, you did.

The only defense I had was to un-bind myself from Robertson.

I reminded them that the Mennonites and the Roman Catholics were the FIRST rescue efforts on the ground, before even the Haitian National Guard, and that they never seek publicity and NEVER buy air time on TV or radio to ask for money.

These organizations are almost always the first on the ground anywhere in the world with medicine, food, temporary shelter and sanitation, and clothing.

I am NOT a Mennonite, neither am I a Roman Catholic, by the way.


67 posted on 01/14/2010 2:15:47 PM PST by Westbrook (Having more children does not divide your love, it multiplies it.)
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To: Westbrook
I refuse to accept that there's a need to defend myself.

I'm tired of being on the defensive.

68 posted on 01/14/2010 2:19:30 PM PST by skeeter
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To: Paperdoll
Few people have done more to help their fellow man, or served God more than this fine man.

One lowly pastor toiling in relative obscurity in some no-name church in some small podunk town somewhere is worth a hundred times what a publicity-seeking self-important shyster like Robertson is.

Intellectually he is way up the scale from you

Quite possible. Then again, Hitler was probably smarter than I am, too.

Oh, and I wrote that he was an idiot, not an IDOT. Just what is an IDOT anyway?


69 posted on 01/14/2010 2:21:59 PM PST by reagan_fanatic (Bush at his worst was still better than Obama at his best.)
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To: dfwgator

It’s more like they brought things on themselves as opposed to God’s Wrath. With their voo-doo they have and were actively calling in evil. You reap what you sow - more than you sow, later than you sow.


70 posted on 01/14/2010 2:27:42 PM PST by presently no screen name
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To: Westbrook

You mean he is like the Pope and the Catholic church?


71 posted on 01/14/2010 2:29:46 PM PST by Wahoo82
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To: Lions Gate

Right on!


72 posted on 01/14/2010 2:31:23 PM PST by presently no screen name
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To: Westbrook
I see you dropped your "Rolex-Armani suits-Limo driver language." Pat does NOT live this way. Other televangelists may...Pat does not and has not, so don't falsely accuse.

However, he does deliver millions and millions of dollars raised to poverty stricken people and has for years. Yes, people donate to these causes? So what? Good for them. Operation Blessing does tremendous good.

73 posted on 01/14/2010 2:34:04 PM PST by Siena Dreaming
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To: Theo

The Catholic Church sucks up way more money than Pat Robinson.


74 posted on 01/14/2010 2:35:20 PM PST by Wahoo82
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To: ZGuy

There are many, including a lot of freepers, who would bash Pat Robertson no matter what he says.


75 posted on 01/14/2010 2:35:23 PM PST by upsdriver
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To: Lions Gate

Hmmmm.

A couple of questions.

1) What was it about the faith of the centurion that OLJC found so amazing?

2) If being a believer in Jesus makes you Satan-proof, what happened to Judas?

3) Same premise as #2, why did Jesus pray for Peter when He handed him over?

I guess you would say that Judas and Peter weren’t born again. Same for Annanias and Saphirra. Same for Stephen. Same for the Galileans crushed in that earthquake.

My take - sucks to be Job. Or Pharoah. Or anyone since Eve. Man is to trouble born as the sparks fly upward, and the mountains fall on the just and the unjust alike.

Praise be to God in the hope we have in Jesus, and in His kingdom at hand. Praise for all those broken people, including Robertson, who are helping Haitians (and other thirsty people) in His name.

And praise to the One who is good, and whose love endures forever.


76 posted on 01/14/2010 2:35:44 PM PST by naturalized
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To: reagan_fanatic
One lowly pastor toiling in relative obscurity...

Everyone has different callings, a different destiny. You shouldn't compare one with another.
77 posted on 01/14/2010 2:37:19 PM PST by presently no screen name
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To: DTogo
Sure the Catholic Church never ever did anythig to give Christianity a bad name.
78 posted on 01/14/2010 2:37:26 PM PST by Wahoo82
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To: ZGuy

Good for you, Gary. You said what needed to be said. Too many Christians just haven’t been taught about the goodness AND the severity of God.


79 posted on 01/14/2010 2:39:02 PM PST by RoadTest (Karl Marx renamed Free Enterprise (the source of a nation's wealth) "Capitalism".)
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To: Westbrook
Do you deny that the missionaries and pastors in Haiti who lived in poverty and died with their CHRISTIAN flocks are condemned along with the witch doctors according to Pat’s assessment of God’s judgement?

Yes, because Pat has his OWN missionaries down there. Obviously, he wasn't condemning them. He was condemning the beliefs of the large numbers of the people practicing voodoo and accepting socialist Gov't which have kept them in poverty as well as in the dark on religious matters.

Could other words have been used? Yes, but what other TV persona DOESN'T make mistakes. Obermann makes them unfailingly 24/7. Did you ever see vitriol directed at him like is directed at Robertson. Of course not. EXTREME prejudice.

80 posted on 01/14/2010 2:40:19 PM PST by Siena Dreaming
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To: DogBarkTree

That statement is far from the truth. The Pope has provided “holy water” to Africa. And Haiti has been full of occult religion for a long time.


81 posted on 01/14/2010 2:41:13 PM PST by RoadTest (Karl Marx renamed Free Enterprise (the source of a nation's wealth) "Capitalism".)
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To: Westbrook

I keep hearing the word “idiot”. I just want to say to all you Pat Robertson bashers that every idle word will be judged of you when you stand before God. He hears every word and remembers them. (Matthew 12:36)

Not my idea. Jesus Christ said it.


82 posted on 01/14/2010 2:46:05 PM PST by RoadTest (Karl Marx renamed Free Enterprise (the source of a nation's wealth) "Capitalism".)
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To: Westbrook
Do you deny that the missionaries and pastors in Haiti who lived in poverty and died with their CHRISTIAN flocks are condemned along with the witch doctors according to Pat’s assessment of God’s judgement?

Yes, because that isn't what he said.

In a long report about aid being deployed to Haiti, and in the midst of asking about the aidworkers who were already there before the earthquake, he made his remark about Haiti's founding.

Any missionaries who died there with their flock died due to the earthquake. There are a million ways to die, and all of us will find one of them when our time comes.

But Haiti was a tragic place before the earthquake, and once the damage is cleaned up if nothing changes it will continue to be. He compared it to Dominican Republic which is far from perfect but it is the country Haitians escape to. He commented on that.

The evangelists and teachers and aid workers who have dedicated themselves to Haiti are doing God's work, and Robertson was talking about them too. Take what he says in context. And, like I keep saying, if you want to know why Haiti is uniquely tragic, read their history. They were ruled by a murderous cult for 200 years. Robertson only touched the tip of the iceberg. If you know the connection between freedom and rule of law, and between prosperity and rule of law, then you know those things apply to Haiti as well as they do us.

83 posted on 01/14/2010 2:46:42 PM PST by marron
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To: DogBarkTree

That’s a very sturdy limb you’re on.


84 posted on 01/14/2010 2:47:17 PM PST by GovernmentShrinker
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To: ZGuy

I think what many people are missing here: Pat Robertson doesn’t care what forum posters here think :) He has his ministry, and he has never been shy about connecting the dots he sees of America’s or anyone else’s sins and the resulting disasters.

There is no precedent for it, you may say? The old testament prophets did it ALL THE TIME. We can “say” anything we want about it, only Pat Robertson “knows” if what he is saying is a result of his own prejudices or if they were divinely inspired.

I think that is why I have never seen any benefit to agreeing or disagreeing in public w/Pat Robertson. He is what he is. He sure doesn’t appear to care what people think about his pronouncements.


85 posted on 01/14/2010 2:47:40 PM PST by Aqua225
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To: Sherman Logan

“If the suffering of the Haitians is evidence of God’s curse on them, he must have really hated the Jews over the last thousand years or so. “

He loves the Jews, but they didn’t know the time of their visitation and they rejected their Messiah. That has consequences.


86 posted on 01/14/2010 2:47:58 PM PST by RoadTest (Karl Marx renamed Free Enterprise (the source of a nation's wealth) "Capitalism".)
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To: Sherman Logan

“If the suffering of the Haitians is evidence of God’s curse on them, he must have really hated the Jews over the last thousand years or so. “

He loves the Jews, but they didn’t know the time of their visitation and they rejected their Messiah. That has consequences.


87 posted on 01/14/2010 2:47:58 PM PST by RoadTest (Karl Marx renamed Free Enterprise (the source of a nation's wealth) "Capitalism".)
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To: ZGuy

I’m encouraged to see something other than vilification of Mr. Robertson. Fellow Christians, this is for you. We would do well to study our Bibles before speaking. Some food for thought:

a) It makes no sense to “believe” in something false. The Bible many times exhorts us to not believe in anything false.

b) If we believe in the God of the Bible or are curious, we should strive to read and understand all of the Bible; we should read up on “professing” versus “true belief”.

c) There are many references to God acting directly in the world in the Bible.

d) If we believe that God is the creator of the universe, common sense then dictates that He could control every aspect of it. The Bible affirms this many times.

e) We should study the Bible so that we can respond to people who either 1) speak disparagingly of the Christian faith inferring that God’s purpose is less than righteous or 2) use events such as this to deny or reject God. The response to 1) is that the Bible (the Word of God) makes no promise that our lives will be a bed of roses; it makes no promise that our belief will automatically make our lives free from earthly problems. God _permits_ evil in the world; to understand why is a good reason to actually study the Bible and of course I can’t distill all of Christian theology here. To acknowledge the existence of God but then to simultaneously reject or disparage Him makes no sense. As far as 2), again since the basis of Christian theology, the Bible, does not posit that God will prevent all natural disasters, there is no logical reason to refute God and His Word based on a natural disaster happening.

f) As far as Mr. Robertson’s comments go, we should again go to the Bible. We certainly can conclude that God permitted this disaster to happen. The Bible teaches us that we will not always understand God’s purpose. We can see the history of Haiti for hundreds of years has been one of very widespread unscriptural behavior. Which is why the real aid Haiti needs is the Gospel, as true faith comes from hearing the Word. The Bible says that we are saved by Grace through faith. Once saved, we realize that we are bought with a price and that we need to live as Christ would have us live. If we live according to the Word, blessings will surely follow, even if we don’t always completely understand them. This makes sense on a simple, common-sense level, when one considers the Biblical exhortations to truth, wisdom, diligence, education, families, political leaders, etc. I find that sometimes I agree with Mr. Robertson and sometimes I don’t; I do not know the answer as to whether this disaster is judgment. But in this case, his comment was so startling to so many who spend a great deal of mental energy vilifying the God they say does not exist, that it created a big stir. Hopefully Christians can use this to have some common-sense conversations which might spread the Gospel and glorify God.

All:

I pray that you would take some time to study the Bible for yourself; and, if something doesn’t make sense, search out good Bible-believing pastors to ask questions of. Also, there are many interesting (though not infallible) books as well as the Reformed Confessions which can help in your study.


88 posted on 01/14/2010 2:49:17 PM PST by PieterCasparzen (Huguenot)
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To: truthguy
I've never been to either country but I have friends who have been to DR and according to them it is better off than Haiti. But that doesn't mean DR is anything close to being a prosperous first world country. It's also a very poor third world country. Yes it's marginally better off than Haiti but what country isn't.

Marginally?

Dominican Republic per-capita GDP: $8,200 (2008 est.)

Haiti per-capita GDP: $1,300 (2008 est.)

That's over 6 times the per-capita GDP. It's not "marginal".

89 posted on 01/14/2010 2:54:02 PM PST by PapaBear3625 (Public healthcare looks like it will work as well as public housing did.)
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To: Sherman Logan
If the suffering of the Haitians is evidence of God's curse on them, he must have really hated the Jews over the last thousand years or so.

Well of *course* he hates them -- they haven't signed on to the Christian religion -- they got what they had coming to them! Of course, God must have hated his only son too -- look what happened to him! < /s>

90 posted on 01/14/2010 2:54:49 PM PST by GovernmentShrinker
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To: SirJohnBarleycorn

Why do you relegate the Haitians’ Black Magic to the past? As I understand it, they’ve continued that stuff right up to the present.


91 posted on 01/14/2010 2:56:39 PM PST by RoadTest (Karl Marx renamed Free Enterprise (the source of a nation's wealth) "Capitalism".)
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To: GovernmentShrinker

“Try reading through the New Testament and then imagining Jesus responding to a disaster like this the way Robertson did.

Robertson is a mean-spirited whackjob. God will deal with him in due course.”

You are SO wrong!


92 posted on 01/14/2010 2:57:36 PM PST by RoadTest (Karl Marx renamed Free Enterprise (the source of a nation's wealth) "Capitalism".)
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To: GovernmentShrinker
"Try reading through the New Testament and then imagining Jesus responding to a disaster like this the way Robertson did."

How about: John 3:16"For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. 17"For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him. 18"He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19"This is the judgment, that the Light has come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the Light, for their deeds were evil. 20"For everyone who does evil hates the Light, and does not come to the Light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. 21"But he who practices the truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God."

How about this one? Mat 25:41""Then He will also say to those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:

Lastly Rev 21:6 And He said to me, “It is done! I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. I will give of the fountain of the water of life freely to him who thirsts. 7 He who overcomes shall inherit all things, and I will be his God and he shall be My son. 8 But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”

93 posted on 01/14/2010 2:58:06 PM PST by 4Him
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To: PapaBear3625

You may be right. My friends who were in DR thought it was very poor (by US standards) and they may have been correct. But when you compare it to Haiti, they may be relatively well off. As I’ve stated, I’m going by second hand info from people who were there over a decade ago.


94 posted on 01/14/2010 3:02:34 PM PST by truthguy (Good intentions are not enough!)
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Rome is the obelisk capital of the world. The most prominent is the 25.5 m/83.6 ft high 331 ton obelisk at Saint Peter's Square in Rome. [6] The obelisk had stood since AD 37 on its site on the wall of the Circus of Nero, flanking St Peter's Basilica:

"The elder Pliny in his Natural History refers to the obelisk's transportation from Egypt to Rome by order of the Emperor Gaius (Caligula) as an outstanding event. The barge that carried it had a huge mast of fir wood which four men's arms could not encircle. The obelisk, half-buried in the debris of the ages, was first excavated as it stood; then it took from April 30 to May 17, 1586 to move it on rollers to the Piazza: it required nearly 1000 men, 140 carthorses, 47 cranes. The re-erection, scheduled for September 14, the Feast of the Exaltation of the Cross, was watched by a large crowd. It was a famous feat of engineering, which made the reputation of Fontana, who detailed it in a book illustrated with copperplate etchings, Della Trasportatione dell'Obelisco Vaticano et delle Fabriche di Nostro Signore Papa Sisto V (1590),[10][11] which itself set a new standard in communicating technical information and influenced subsequent architectural publications by its meticulous precision.[12] Before being re-erected the obelisk was exorcised.

For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.” Ephesians 6:11-13.

95 posted on 01/14/2010 3:06:24 PM PST by anglian
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To: GovernmentShrinker

Yeah, God forbid Robertson say something like “Stop sinning or something worse may happen to you” or “Unless you repent you will all perish as well.” You might want to brush up a bit.


96 posted on 01/14/2010 3:08:50 PM PST by naturalized
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To: truthguy
One possibly important (but very politically incorrect) comparison:
Haiti
black 95%, mulatto and white 5%
Dominican Republic
mixed 73%, white 16%, black 11%
Haiti's per-capita GDP is very close to the per-capita GDP of the average sub-Saharan West African country.
97 posted on 01/14/2010 3:25:38 PM PST by PapaBear3625 (Public healthcare looks like it will work as well as public housing did.)
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To: RoadTest
Why do you relegate the Haitians’ Black Magic to the past? As I understand it, they’ve continued that stuff right up to the present.

I don't.

What I was commenting on was Pat's comment, linking the 1791 satanic pact as the reason for Haiti being "cursed" by one thing after another ever since, including the recent earthquake.

Yes, all Christians should speak out against satanism, but we should be careful not to do so in the manner of casting stones.

There were present at that season some that told him of the Galilaeans, whose blood Pilate had mingled with their sacrifices. And Jesus answering said unto them, Suppose ye that these Galilaeans were sinners above all the Galilaeans, because they suffered such things? I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish. Or those eighteen, upon whom the tower in Siloam fell, and slew them, think ye that they were sinners above all men that dwelt in Jerusalem? I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish. Luke 13

Are the victims of the earthquake sinners above all people that dwell in the Caribbean or in the Americas?

Our own country just elected as president a man whose most important spiritual adviser has been Jeremiah Wright.

Haiti has voodoo. America has atheism, paganism, abortion, promiscuity, illegitimacy, homosexuality, covetousness, and every other sin one can name, including voodoo in places like Miami.

As Jefferson said, "Indeed I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just, that his justice cannot sleep forever."

98 posted on 01/14/2010 3:40:13 PM PST by SirJohnBarleycorn
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To: reagan_fanatic

>Hyst wgat us an IDOT anyway

Some people’s children! An IDOT is a TYPO. I suppose you’ve never made on.


99 posted on 01/14/2010 3:56:54 PM PST by Paperdoll ( Hunter/Palin or Palin/Hunter 2012.<)
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To: dfwgator
Pat’s exact quote: “The Haitians were under the heel of the French. You know, Napoleon III and whatever.”

Here’s a little tip. When trying to make a case using “You know” and “and whatever”, it kind of gives the impression that you don’t know what the Hell you’re talking about.

Three words: truth in advertising

100 posted on 01/14/2010 4:42:44 PM PST by Oztrich Boy (Don't panic, the lunatics are in charge and have everything in hand.)
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