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Women to Serve on Subs, Gates Tells Congress
Armed Forces Press Service ^ | 2/24/10 | Donna Miles

Posted on 02/24/2010 7:59:45 AM PST by meandog

Women to Serve on Subs, Gates Tells Congress

By Donna Miles American Forces Press Service

WASHINGTON, Feb. 23, 2010 - The Navy plans to repeal its ban on women serving on submarines, Defense Secretary Robert M. Gates has informed Congress.

Gates signed a letter Feb. 19 informing Congress of the Navy's plan to lift the policy, which it intends to do through the phased-in assignment of women to submarines, Pentagon Press Secretary Geoff Morrell confirmed today.

The secretary endorsed the plan, the brainchild of Navy Secretary Ray Mabus, Morrell said.

No change can take effect until Congress has been in session for 30 days following the notification, Navy Lt. Justin Cole, a Navy spokesman said.

Mabus, Chief of Naval Operations Adm. Gary Roughead and other Navy leaders have looked closely at the issues involved with integrating women into the submarine force, including close working conditions and accommodations, he said.

No funds will be spent to reconfigure submarines to accommodate female crew members until the Navy Department presents the phased-approach plan to Congress.

Mabus has been a strong proponent of the policy change since being confirmed to his post in May.

"I believe women should have every opportunity to serve at sea, and that includes aboard submarines," he told reporters in October. Roughead, in a statement issued in September, said his experience commanding a mixed-gender surface combatant ship makes him "very comfortable" with the idea of integrating women into the submarine force.

"I am familiar with the issues as well as the value of diverse crews," Roughead said.

The integration of women into the submarine force increases the talent pool and therefore, overall submarine readiness, Cole said.

"We know there are capable young women in the Navy and women who are interested in the Navy who have the talent and desire to succeed in the submarine force," he said. "Enabling them to serve there is best for the submarine force and our Navy."

The policy change – and the Navy's ability to work through the issues involved -- is not without precedent, he noted. In 1993, the Navy changed its policy to permit women to serve on surface combat ships.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Extended News; Foreign Affairs; Front Page News
KEYWORDS: agenda; bhodod; bhosecdef; bubbleheads; submarines; usnavy; women
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To: meandog

All I can say is that I wouldn’t want my sister going down on a submarine.


51 posted on 02/24/2010 8:51:47 AM PST by Jaxter (Si Vis Pacem Para Bellum.)
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To: meandog

Most navies prohibited women from serving on submarines, even after they had been permitted to serve on surface warships. The Royal Norwegian Navy became the first navy to allow female crew on its submarines in 1985. The Royal Danish Navy allowed for female submariners in 1988. Others followed suit including the Swedish Navy (1989), the Royal Australian Navy (1998) and Canadian Navy (2002). In 1995, Solveig Krey of the Royal Norwegian Navy became the first female officer to assume command on a military submarine, HNoMS Kobben.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Submarine


52 posted on 02/24/2010 8:52:38 AM PST by AdmSmith
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To: meandog

Have fun when they all start cycling together.


53 posted on 02/24/2010 8:54:24 AM PST by HamiltonJay
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To: HamiltonJay

Once a month, some 3rd world country gets nuked.


54 posted on 02/24/2010 8:59:49 AM PST by MrDem (Founder: Democrats for Cheney/Palin 2012)
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To: Retired COB
As you may remember there are a lot of systems that we had to learn to become qualified in submarines. Most women don't relate well to electrical systems, high pressure air systems, hydraulic systems, propulsion systems, etc.

I remember some of the real dodos on submarines and surface ships in the past.

55 posted on 02/24/2010 8:59:52 AM PST by ColdWater ("The theory of evolution really has no bearing on what I'm trying to accomplish with FR anyway. ")
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To: SunkenCiv

SAN DIEGO (NNS) The Swedish attack submarine HMS Gotland arrived at Naval Air Station North Island, Calif., June 27 to begin a one-year bilateral training effort with the U.S. Navy’s anti-submarine warfare (ASW) forces. Gotland will play a major role in the Navy’s ASW training by being an opposing force (OPFOR) during exercises against carrier and expeditionary strike groups, air patrols and other forces.

The 30-person male and female crew is comprised of 19 officers and 11 conscripts.

“This is a small crew, and we are very happy to have been selected to participate in these exercises,” Westas said. With Gotland’s arrival, ships, aircraft and their crews in the Pacific will now have more realistic and effective training, Fleet ASW officials said. “We are ready to get to work and challenge your Navy,” said Westas. “We are the underdog. However, we are ready to show whoever we are up against what we can do.”

http://www.navy.mil/search/display.asp?story_id=18984


56 posted on 02/24/2010 9:00:47 AM PST by AdmSmith
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To: meandog

Gates is a bit of a stooge sadly


57 posted on 02/24/2010 9:01:05 AM PST by wardaddy (Epic Beard Man sez: "If you think cops are pigs next time you need help call an amber lamps")
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To: thethirddegree

“I wonder what the sub would do if it was on a mission that required it to stay submerged for an extended period of time and they had to deal with a live birth on board?”

well now! I see no reason why that event couldn’t be turned into a “cooperative learning” experience. It’s the latest fad in schools. Individuality is destroyed and the GROUP does the thinking. In this case, the GROUP could watch and heopefully some lone individual would know what to do!


58 posted on 02/24/2010 9:09:32 AM PST by nmh (Intelligent people recognize Intelligent Design (God).)
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To: RC2

“This is just another reason to have abortion in the health bill. These idiots can’t figure out why women get pregnant aboard ship.”

They will USE this to have YOU pay for their abortions.

I don’t want to PAY or killing babies.


59 posted on 02/24/2010 9:10:23 AM PST by nmh (Intelligent people recognize Intelligent Design (God).)
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To: MrDem
Once a month, some 3rd world country gets nuked.

ok so maybe there is a good side.

60 posted on 02/24/2010 9:28:26 AM PST by DYngbld (I have read the back of the Book and we WIN!!!!)
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To: Retired COB
MeanDog, As you may remember there are a lot of systems that we had to learn to become qualified in submarines. Most women don't relate well to electrical systems, high pressure air systems, hydraulic systems, propulsion systems, etc. What do you think the news release is going to look like when we lose one of our submarines because one woman who was "qualified in submarines" because it was dictated as a must happen event from above? I don't think the general populace realizes that all it takes is one person aboard a sub who doesn't know what they're doing to kill everyone else aboard. Should we take a chance on losing up to 150 men and a multimillion dollar submarine just to carry out some idiot's politically correct social experiment? I hope I'm wrong on this one....but it doesn't bode well. I still remember when they started putting women in fighter planes. They meant well, but the ladies had a serious testostrone shortage. As a group, they just did not perform as well. They also had a slight problem with the relief tube (the thing that the pilots stick their talleywacker in to relieve themselves in flight). That didn't stop the people at the top levels of the Defense Dept from continuing the experiment just for the PR. (Before I get flamed, there may well be a hot female fighter pilot out there, but I haven't seen her yet.)

Yup...I shake with fear when I think of the BCP being in the hands of a female trimming a boat or a woman nuke back aft sramming the reactor. Submarines are dangerous places which require quick reactions in emergencies; I don't know if they still have OBAs, other gear requiring tight seals etc., but they are no place for long hair and nails. I suppose females would make good sonar techs as women supposedly have better hearing than men but other ratings, I don't believe will be as well served. I can just imagine one blowing the sanitary tank or shooting the GDU!

61 posted on 02/24/2010 9:30:56 AM PST by meandog (OWEbummercare: "Arbeit Macht Frei!")
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To: AdmSmith
One thing to note, the Scandinavian naval forces all have coastal diesel boats meaning short duration patrols. Try sticking with a typical 90-100 day period at sea test period BEFORE allowing females on board U.S. boats. I’m certain also that good order and discipline will be affected by this decision as a sub crew is a team that requires the ability to get along among its members
There aren't many are no places for privacy on submarines. So "making woopie" isn't going to go down too well with the skipper and the rest of the crew, though I'm pretty certain it will be tried.
62 posted on 02/24/2010 9:39:35 AM PST by meandog (OWEbummercare: "Arbeit Macht Frei!")
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To: meandog
Yup...I shake with fear when I think of the BCP being in the hands of a female trimming a boat or a woman nuke back aft sramming the reactor. Submarines are dangerous places which require quick reactions in emergencies; I don't know if they still have OBAs, other gear requiring tight seals etc., but they are no place for long hair and nails.

Actually, BCP and RO are some of the jobs that could be handled equally well by women.

I still shudder to think about the guys on the planes when we were transiting.

63 posted on 02/24/2010 9:39:58 AM PST by ColdWater ("The theory of evolution really has no bearing on what I'm trying to accomplish with FR anyway. ")
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To: meandog

don’t some submarines have shared bunks (no rooms at all) where you take shifts using the same bunk?

the only justification for this is that they intend to now have submarines.


64 posted on 02/24/2010 9:41:38 AM PST by longtermmemmory (VOTE! http://www.senate.gov and http://www.house.gov)
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To: longtermmemmory

now=not


65 posted on 02/24/2010 9:42:07 AM PST by longtermmemmory (VOTE! http://www.senate.gov and http://www.house.gov)
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To: meandog

I’d like to see the rules about how pregnancies will be handled - standard monthly/bimonthly crew exchanges?


66 posted on 02/24/2010 9:44:40 AM PST by MortMan (Viscous rumors are thickening.)
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To: clodchopper
I know this is sarcasm..
67 posted on 02/24/2010 9:46:37 AM PST by boomop1
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To: meandog

No good can come of this


68 posted on 02/24/2010 9:46:39 AM PST by CaptRon
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To: meandog

Interesting. I understand that there are plenty of women out there who are attracted to long, hard cylindrical objects filled with seamen.


69 posted on 02/24/2010 9:49:36 AM PST by Buckeye Battle Cry (Enjoy nature - eat meat, wear fur and drive your car!)
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To: meandog
or a woman nuke back aft sramming the reactor.

The civilian plants have had women nukes for years. Sleep well.

70 posted on 02/24/2010 10:01:14 AM PST by ColdWater ("The theory of evolution really has no bearing on what I'm trying to accomplish with FR anyway. ")
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To: SWAMPSNIPER

“I love women, but not in positions of authority.

I may be a closet muslim!”

Yes, indeedy - and I might be a closet Liberal, too.

;-)


71 posted on 02/24/2010 10:09:36 AM PST by GladesGuru (In a society predicated upon freedom, it is essential to examine principles,)
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To: GladesGuru
“I love women, but not in positions of authority.

Variation helps spice up things. Try it.

72 posted on 02/24/2010 10:12:22 AM PST by ColdWater ("The theory of evolution really has no bearing on what I'm trying to accomplish with FR anyway. ")
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To: MortMan

these subs can be under for six months at a time.

This makes no sense unless you have a small non nuke, symbolic military.


73 posted on 02/24/2010 10:17:19 AM PST by longtermmemmory (VOTE! http://www.senate.gov and http://www.house.gov)
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To: longtermmemmory
these subs can be under for six months at a time.

Source?

EM1 SSN 652

74 posted on 02/24/2010 10:20:44 AM PST by ColdWater ("The theory of evolution really has no bearing on what I'm trying to accomplish with FR anyway. ")
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To: ColdWater
Actually, BCP and RO are some of the jobs that could be handled equally well by women. I still shudder to think about the guys on the planes

I seem to recall one of my former shipmates somehow locking the fairwater planes in a dive during an IMO pump failure and it took every shred of sinew he had plus the other stern planesman to pull the yoke back (with he help of the manual pump). The chief of the dive almost had to hit the "chicken sticks" even though we were in the "Cold War" depth of forbidden waters if you get my drift. True story.
I remind you and everyone else here that the only two ships lost after World War II with all hands were the USS Thresher and USS Scorpion. Our boats are no place for experimentation, IMHO.

75 posted on 02/24/2010 10:20:58 AM PST by meandog (OWEbummercare: "Arbeit Macht Frei!")
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To: meandog

Sex City on the subs, then. Guess I was born too soon! Can’t the women at LEAST not get pregnant, though?


76 posted on 02/24/2010 10:23:31 AM PST by 2harddrive
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To: meandog
I remind you and everyone else here that the only two ships lost after World War II with all hands were the USS Thresher and USS Scorpion. Our boats are no place for experimentation, IMHO.

Neither boat had women aboard.

The Thresher was exposed to 'experimentation' and the Scorpion, who knows.

77 posted on 02/24/2010 10:23:46 AM PST by ColdWater ("The theory of evolution really has no bearing on what I'm trying to accomplish with FR anyway. ")
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To: ColdWater

“Variation helps spice up things. Try it.”

That can have a number of meanings. Assuming you meant experience with women in positions of authority, been there and done that.

If they had that authority due to ability/IQ/knowledge, I liked ‘em. If not, not. No gender thingie there.

I’ll pass on one of the ways your posted suggestion “try it” could be taken.

As for


78 posted on 02/24/2010 10:25:39 AM PST by GladesGuru (In a society predicated upon freedom, it is essential to examine principles,)
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To: meandog
Our boats are no place for experimentation, IMHO.

Experimentation is the lifeblood of the submarines. Always pushing to envelope to gain that slight advantage.

79 posted on 02/24/2010 10:28:35 AM PST by ColdWater ("The theory of evolution really has no bearing on what I'm trying to accomplish with FR anyway. ")
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To: ColdWater
My current gf has burned our dryer twice in the past four years with certain nylon feminine apparel and failure to empty the lint trap...and I have every reason to believe the old Fairbanks-Morses back aft are going to be running over time with emergency ventilation procedures when the gals come aboard.
80 posted on 02/24/2010 10:28:41 AM PST by meandog (OWEbummercare: "Arbeit Macht Frei!")
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To: meandog
ships

?

81 posted on 02/24/2010 10:34:13 AM PST by ColdWater ("The theory of evolution really has no bearing on what I'm trying to accomplish with FR anyway. ")
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