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How Obama can shift the health-care debate
Washington Post ^ | March 5, 2010 | David Ignatius

Posted on 03/06/2010 3:04:24 PM PST by ricks_place

The ground of debate shifts when a prominent figure says that a contentious topic is a matter of morality, not politics. President Obama should remember that precept in these final days of the health-care debate.

The best recent example of the power of moral argument was Adm. Mike Mullen’s frank statement to Congress last month about the “don’t ask, don’t tell” policy for gays in the military: “No matter how I look at this issue, I cannot escape being troubled by the fact that we have in place a policy which forces young men and women to lie about who they are in order to defend their fellow citizens.”

By treating the issue as a matter of conscience, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs altered the national conversation...

Obama needs to take a similar moral stand in the health-care debate. As he meets with wavering congressmen and makes a final push for a bill, he should stress that the reason to pass health-care reform isn’t because it will cut premiums, or reduce costs, or help middle-class workers, or any of the other politically expedient arguments that have been advanced. It’s because extending health care to all citizens is morally the right thing to do.

Here’s what I want Obama to say:

A just society assures its citizens’ basic needs. It protects their “life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness,” irrespective of the circumstances they were born into. Citizenship in a great country should not be a DNA lottery, or a case of survival of the richest. A nation has a moral obligation to care for its people, and if it fails to do so, it is a lesser country.

(Excerpt) Read more at voices.washingtonpost.com ...


TOPICS: Editorial; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: healthcare
Obama must abandon any logical argument in favor of an emotional argument to succeed in nationalizing Health Care and destroying the United States in the process. Nice David!
1 posted on 03/06/2010 3:04:24 PM PST by ricks_place
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To: ricks_place
The ground of debate shifts when a prominent figure says that a contentious topic is a matter of morality, not politics

Dream on!

2 posted on 03/06/2010 3:10:24 PM PST by SmokingJoe
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To: ricks_place

Now we have the Dems lecturing We the People on morals? They who stand for homosexuality and abortion? Really now...their chutzpah knows no bounds.


3 posted on 03/06/2010 3:13:53 PM PST by pray4liberty
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To: ricks_place

“A just society assures its citizens’ basic needs. It protects their “life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness,” irrespective of the circumstances they were born into. Citizenship in a great country should not be a DNA lottery, or a case of survival of the richest. A nation has a moral obligation to care for its people, and if it fails to do so, it is a lesser country.”


And tell me please which country has proven more morally compassionate to its peoples and the countries of other?


4 posted on 03/06/2010 3:14:10 PM PST by BornToBeAmerican (“If you think education is expensive try ignorance.”)
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To: ricks_place

This is about property rights. It always is. But most Americans are driven by emotions such as envy, hate, anger, rage, sadism. That’s why they vote for socialists like Ears and Mother Pelosi.


5 posted on 03/06/2010 3:14:59 PM PST by MichiganConservative (When in the course of ... events, it becomes necessary ... to dissolve the political bands which ...)
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To: ricks_place

“Citizenship in a great country should not be a DNA lottery”

As in an accidental birth of OBAMA?

A man whose origins and actual citizenship is by definition suspect, AND, who considers the US not great but one country like any other, AND who has disparaged Nevada and gambling more than once—thinks he can dictate terms?


6 posted on 03/06/2010 3:16:37 PM PST by combat_boots (The Lion of Judah cometh. Hallelujah. Gloria Patri, Filio et Spirito Sancto.)
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To: ricks_place
It protects their “life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness...".

Does this include those who would be murdered in the womb as a result of ObamaCare? If not, it's all a bunch of liberal bull****!

7 posted on 03/06/2010 3:17:40 PM PST by FlingWingFlyer (A proud American-American since 1949.)
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To: ricks_place
How Obama can shift the health-care debate

Well, Obama is shifty.

8 posted on 03/06/2010 3:17:44 PM PST by windsorknot (Obamacare: You're in Good Hands with All State)
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To: ricks_place

A just society does not steal from those who work to provide for those who don’t.


9 posted on 03/06/2010 3:17:58 PM PST by GenXteacher (He that hath no stomach for this fight, let him depart!)
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To: ricks_place

[The ground of debate shifts when a prominent figure says that a contentious topic is a matter of morality, not politics.]

Al Gore began framing his global warming hysteria in those terms and immediately afterward the bottom began to drop out from under the “scientific consensus” claimed by the IPCC.

It seems to me, when some politician suddenly declares that their political agenda is a matter of morality, not politics, then it’s a clear sign that their agenda is really about how much power they can grab for themselves.


10 posted on 03/06/2010 3:18:24 PM PST by spinestein (The answer is 42.)
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To: ricks_place

Everyone in this country already has healthcare.


11 posted on 03/06/2010 3:20:25 PM PST by DaveArk
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To: DaveArk
Everyone in this country already has healthcare.

And without the 2 trillion dollar middle man.

12 posted on 03/06/2010 3:24:29 PM PST by EGPWS (Trust in God, question everyone else)
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To: GenXteacher
A just society does not steal from those who work to provide for those who don’t.

Nor is such a directive documented in the Constitution.

What happened?

13 posted on 03/06/2010 3:26:15 PM PST by EGPWS (Trust in God, question everyone else)
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To: ricks_place
A just society assures its citizens’ basic needs.

Yes it does via private charity, NOT government confiscation!

14 posted on 03/06/2010 3:28:42 PM PST by EGPWS (Trust in God, question everyone else)
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To: ricks_place
A nation has a moral obligation to care for its people, and if it fails to do so, it is a lesser country.

How does this work for the unborn babies? Just wondering.

15 posted on 03/06/2010 3:32:05 PM PST by Faith
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To: ricks_place
"to lie about who they are"

It's not about "who" they are; it's about "what" they are; sex deviates, mal-adjusted to societal normalcy and natural sexual behavior, and trying to immerse themselves into a group to whick they don't belong. Their values are NOT those of the near-universal nomally sexually-adjusted service personnel.

If they wanna play their deviant games, don't bring it to the military groups.

Trying to lend legitamacy to every wacko and mal-content via "diversity" is what has torn this country apart. What people do with their own deviances has no business being an issue to be approved, de facto, by recognition. If you wanna marry a sheep, do it off-base.

16 posted on 03/06/2010 3:33:31 PM PST by traditional1 ("Don't gotsta worry 'bout no mo'gage, don't gotsta worry 'bout no gas; Obama gonna take care o' me!)
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To: traditional1

“whick” = which


17 posted on 03/06/2010 3:34:09 PM PST by traditional1 ("Don't gotsta worry 'bout no mo'gage, don't gotsta worry 'bout no gas; Obama gonna take care o' me!)
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To: ricks_place
“No matter how I look at this issue, I cannot escape being troubled by the fact that we have in place a policy which forces young men and women to lie about who they are in order to defend their fellow citizens.”

Everywhere that this tacit acceptance of homosexuality has been allowed it has corrupted, deformed and irreparably harmed those institutions and millions of people. Now they want to do it to the finest military in the world.

We are fighting 2 wars against a ruthless enemy, the economy is in the dumper and "commander zero" sees this as a pressing issue?

18 posted on 03/06/2010 3:39:07 PM PST by Eagles6 ( Typical White Guy: Christian, Constitutionalist, Heterosexual, Redneck.)
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To: ricks_place
How Obama can shift the health-care debate

Resign?

19 posted on 03/06/2010 3:42:25 PM PST by Brads Gramma (Here's a thought!! Donate to the website you are on RIGHT NOW!!)
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To: ricks_place

Those that have studied rhetoric know that once the argument goes from political to moral grounds, there is no room for compromise. Argument is over. It is no longer about the future, it is about morality. Why is it that no politician raised the fundamental question, namely, is it the proper role of government to provide health care? Health care is a goods, not a right. Is it moral to saddle generations to come with an insurmountable debt? Is it moral to provide for an entitlement that will destroy the best medical care in the world? Is it moral to tell people that these entitlements are sustainable when they are not?


20 posted on 03/06/2010 3:47:05 PM PST by Nosterrex
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To: ricks_place

The truth is Obamacare had been on the front burner since early last summer. The public opposes the plan by roughly a 60/40 margin, which hasn’t budged since late in the summer. Nothing Obama or anybody else says at this point is going to shift public opinion to any significant degree one way or another.


21 posted on 03/06/2010 3:49:06 PM PST by apillar
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To: Nosterrex
Why is it that no politician raised the fundamental question, namely, is it the proper role of government to provide health care?

Asking that question makes Mother Pelosi laugh. There would be really very few who have the balls to ask that. Raising the "proper role of government" question is just kookery to most, even around here.

22 posted on 03/06/2010 3:51:24 PM PST by MichiganConservative (When in the course of ... events, it becomes necessary ... to dissolve the political bands which ...)
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To: ricks_place

The pivot to “morality” on Obamacare can mean only one thing:

Waterloo Barry Waterloo.

It’s dead Jim.

[By all means don’t listen to me...just keep spending more time on Obamacare...Carry On....]

[San Fran Nan is now down to 199 votes]


23 posted on 03/06/2010 3:58:17 PM PST by bigoil
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To: Eagles6

I just want to know when we will allow serial-killers into the armed forces. Right now, they have to lie about who they are in order to defend their fellow citizens.


24 posted on 03/06/2010 3:59:09 PM PST by bone52
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To: ricks_place
“No matter how I look at this issue, I cannot escape being troubled by the fact that we have in place a policy which forces young men and women to lie about who they are in order to defend their fellow citizens.”

Actually, the official policy is "no Gays". But the "don't ask ,don't tell" doesn't make people lie, it just makes them keep their mouth shut.

25 posted on 03/06/2010 3:59:46 PM PST by CharlesWayneCT
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To: ricks_place
A just society assures its citizens’ basic needs.

I don't think he knows what "assures" means. It doesn't mean "insures". Of course, under the common definition, a "just society" does no such thing. It's not the job of "society" to care for individuals, only to care for the society.

26 posted on 03/06/2010 4:01:52 PM PST by CharlesWayneCT
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To: Nosterrex

Is it moral to debase the current Health Care system with a government takeover, mandatory unions, death panels, health panels, fewer doctors, more suffering, required abortion funding, higher costs, and no choice? The moral argument is against this Obama bill.


27 posted on 03/06/2010 4:01:57 PM PST by ricks_place
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To: ricks_place
The 'rats/socialists in the House will pass the Senate bill and with MAO-bama's signature, it's all over.

Our next line of defense will be lawsuits on the Constitutionality, winning control in 2010 and electing Sara as Pres in 2012 and reversing this monster.

28 posted on 03/06/2010 4:06:10 PM PST by newfreep (Palin/DeMint 2012 - Bolton: Secy of State)
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To: bone52
Seriously.

Why not let quadriplegics, the blind and the mentally retarded in to? They just want to serve their country.

29 posted on 03/06/2010 4:14:11 PM PST by Eagles6 ( Typical White Guy: Christian, Constitutionalist, Heterosexual, Redneck.)
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To: ricks_place

Obama could shift the health-care debate into a winning situation for himself, if he just came out and said the bill as it stands, sucks! And the best thing that could be done for the American people would be to trash this crime against the people and start over from scratch. Leaving out all the buy offs for senators votes, forcing citizens to buy insurance, paying for abortion, cutting medicare, and on and on. And actually work “FOR” the people instead of against us.


30 posted on 03/06/2010 4:19:31 PM PST by GloriaJane (Pro-Choice = Pro-Death........ Pro-Life = Pro-LIFE!)
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To: ricks_place
screamkill

They are halfway right about the moral issue. CommieCare will end up killing more people than the current system as medical advancements stall and people die waiting for rationed care. A government should not morally kill it's own citizens. I might add rich people live longer and as this will make us all poorer that too will kill even more.

31 posted on 03/06/2010 4:39:31 PM PST by Nateman (If liberals aren't screaming you're doing it wrong.)
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To: ricks_place
FU Barry Soetoro. Freedom is not up for debate. It's enforced by the 2nd Amendment.

Democrats aren't lucky enough, PUNKS!

32 posted on 03/06/2010 4:58:41 PM PST by VRWC For Truth (Throw the bums out who vote yes on the bail out)
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To: ricks_place
Obama's Economic Promises:
FAILED
Image and video hosting by TinyPic
So why should ANYONE trust him with health care?

33 posted on 03/06/2010 5:32:27 PM PST by Recovering_Democrat
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To: ricks_place

“Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn’t pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same, or one day we will spend our sunset years telling our children and our children’s children what it was once like in the United States where men were free.” ~~ President Ronald Reagan

OBAMANOMICS—TRICKLE DOWN DESTRUCTION of the economy

Bambi doesn’t keep his promises...so buyer beware!

SET THEIR LOCAL AND DC LINES ON FIRE!

PLEASE ASK THEM TO REPEAL THE BIG NEW FEES in TRICARE for Life, the retired Military over 65 secondary health ins. which they passed in a DOD bill. They promised our Military these benefits, and our Military have earned them.

Sen Scott Brown’s number is 202-224-4543
Capitol Hill switchboard is 202-224-3121

Lots of local demwit phone numbers on this thread
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2408217/posts

Rename, repackage, rewrite it a tad smaller, and sell another pig in a poke. NO COLAs for granny, retired Military or retired fed employees. BIG NEW fees for Tricare for Life retired over 65 Military’s secondary health ins. (DOD bill already passed, delayed but goes into effect 2011 NEEDS TO BE REPEALED!
..............................

OBAMA’s WAR ON SENIORS http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2433867/posts/

New Dem mantra: Woof, woof eat dog food granny....ala let them eat cake.

Obama says slight fix will extend Social Security, http://townhall.com/news/us/2010/02/19/obama_says_slight_fix_will_extend_social_security

Health Care Rationing for Seniors Another Problem in New Obama Plan http://www.lifenews.com/bio3058.html

Medicare tax may apply to investment income (ObamaCare tax hike)
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2460988/posts

Obama: No reduced Medicare benefits in health care reform
http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/07/28/obama.health.care/index.html

Will healthcare reform mean cuts in Medicare for seniors?
http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Politics/2009/1017/will-healthcare-reform-mean-cuts-in-medicare-for-seniors

Health Reform’s Hidden Victims Young people and seniors would pay a high price for ObamaCare.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970203517304574306303720472842.html

.......................

SOCIALIZED MED THREAD http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2464538/posts
...........................

MILITARY & Retired MILITARY
Veterans’ G.I. Bill benefits MIA
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2464680/posts
TRI CARE FOR LIFE This from a google search:

http://economicspolitics.blogspot.com/2009/05/tricare-for-life-is-obama-trying-to.html

This option would help reduce the costs of TFL, as well as costs for Medicare, by introducing minimum out-of pocket requirements for beneficiaries. Under this option, TFL would not cover any of the first $525 of an enrollee’s cost-sharing liabilities for calendar year 2011 and would limit coverage to 50 percent of the next $4,725 in Medicare cost sharing that the beneficiary incurred. (Because all further cost sharing would be covered by TFL, enrollees could not pay more than $2,888 in cost sharing in that year.) http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/99xx/doc9925/12-18-HealthOptions.pdf

Bill Would Restrict Veterans’ Health Care Options 11/06/09
Buyer and McKeon Offer Amendments to Protect Veterans and TRICARE Beneficiaries

Congress plans to block Tricare fee increases
http://www.armytimes.com/news/2009/10/military_tricarefees_blocked_100709w
http://www.navytimes.com/news/2009/10/military_tricarefees_blocked_100709w/

By Rick Maze - Staff writer, Oct 7, 2009

Tricare fee increases imposed last week by the Defense Department will be repealed by a provision of the compromise 2010 defense authorization bill unveiled Wednesday by House and Senate negotiators.

The fee increases were announced on Sept. 30 and took effect on Oct. 1, but the defense bill, HR 2647, includes a provision barring any fee increases until the start of fiscal 2011.

Retired Army Maj. Gen. Bill Matz, president of the National Association for Uniformed Services, said the announcement of fee increases was shocking considering that the Obama administration promised earlier this year to hold off on any new fee Tricare fee increases until fiscal 2011.

“President Obama and DoD assured NAUS and the entire military family earlier this year that there would rightly be no increases in any Tricare fees” in fiscal 2010, Matz said. “We took them at their word, and I can’t believe that a co-pay increase like this was allowed to go forward,” he added.


34 posted on 03/06/2010 5:46:28 PM PST by GailA (obamacare paid for by cuts & taxes on most vulnerable Veterans, disabled,seniors & retired Military)
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To: ricks_place

Obamacare call list: Courtsey of TN Eagle Forum:

PLEASE CALL! DC OFFICE LOCAL OFFICE State District
Harry Mitchell (202) 225-2190 (480) 946-2411 AZ 5th District
Gabrielle Giffords (202) 225-2542 (520) 881-3588 AZ 8th District
Ann Kirkpatrick (202) 225-2315 (928) 226-6914 AZ 1st District
Jerry McNerney (202) 225-1947 925-833-0643 CA 11th District
John Salazar 202-225-4761 970-245-7107 CO 3rd District
Jim Himes (202) 225-5541 (866) 453-0028 CT 4th District
Alan Grayson (202) 225-2176 (407) 841-1757 FL 8th District
Bill Foster (202) 225-2976 630-406-1114 IL 14th District
Baron Hill 202 225 5315 812 288 3999 IN 9th District
Mark Schauer (202) 225-6276 (517) 780-9075 MI 7th District
Gary Peters (202) 225-5802 (248) 273-4227 MI 9th District
Dina Titus (202) 225-3252 702-256-DINA (3462) NV 3rd District
Carol Shea-Porter (202) 225-5456 (603) 743-4813 NH 1st District
Tim Bishop (202) 225-3826 (631) 696-6500 NY 1st District
John Hall (202) 225-5441 (845) 225-3641 x49371 NY 19th District
Bill Owens (202) 225-4611 (315) 782-3150 NY 23rd District
Mike Arcuri (202)225-3665 (315)793-8146 NY 24th District
Dan Maffei (202) 225-3701 (315) 423-5657 NY 25th District
Earl Pomeroy (202) 225-2611 (701) 224-0355 ND At-Large District
Steven Driehaus (202) 225-2216 (513) 684-2723 OH 1st District
Mary Jo Kilroy (202) 225-2015 (614) 294-2196 OH 15th District
Zach Space (202) 225-6265 (330) 364-4300 OH 18th District
Kathy Dahlkemper (202) 225-5406 (814) 456-2038 PA 3rd District
Patrick Murphy (202) 225-4276 (215) 826-1963 PA 8th District
Christopher Carney (202) 225-3731 (570) 585-9988 PA 10th District
Paul Kanjorski (202) 225-6511 (570) 825-2200 PA 11th District
John Spratt (202) 225-5501 (803)327-1114 SC 5th District
Tom Perriello (202) 225-4711 (276) 656-2291 VA 5th District
Alan Mollohan (202) 225-4172 (304) 623-4422 WVA 1st District
Nick Rahall (202) 225-3452 (304) 252-5000 WVA 3rd District
Steve Kagen (202) 225-5665 (920) 437-1954 WI 8th District
Bart Gordon (202) 225-4231 TN
Bart Stupak (202) 225 4735 MI
senator mark begich (202) 224-3004 toll free. (877) 501 - 6275 just became a MAYBE


35 posted on 03/06/2010 5:47:34 PM PST by GailA (obamacare paid for by cuts & taxes on most vulnerable Veterans, disabled,seniors & retired Military)
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To: BornToBeAmerican

“Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn’t pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same, or one day we will spend our sunset years telling our children and our children’s children what it was once like in the United States where men were free.” ~~ President Ronald Reagan


36 posted on 03/06/2010 5:48:18 PM PST by GailA (obamacare paid for by cuts & taxes on most vulnerable Veterans, disabled,seniors & retired Military)
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To: ricks_place

I was in the Army for 6 years. Never once did my sexuality ever come into question. I never served with women in the Army, but I don’t see how that would have changed anything. Yes, there were two guys taking a shower together which caused them to be discharged, but the country wasn’t in danger because of it.


37 posted on 03/06/2010 5:49:43 PM PST by khenrich (And people thought Jimmy Carter was our worst president........)
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To: ricks_place

Obama’s DNA rests in Kenya and that is where we need to send his ass.


38 posted on 03/06/2010 6:12:13 PM PST by Jukeman
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To: EGPWS

FDR happened....about 4 times.....then Lyndon Johnson happened.....


39 posted on 03/07/2010 7:21:20 PM PST by GenXteacher (He that hath no stomach for this fight, let him depart!)
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