Skip to comments.Will the Right Find Libertarianism?
Posted on 03/19/2010 12:25:37 PM PDT by presidio9
"Freedom" has long been a right-wing rallying cry for self-identified patriots ranging from John Birchers to tea party protesters to increasingly extreme members of the Republican establishment. They're particularly passionate about the freedom to own and openly carry guns and freedom from federal taxation (but not necessarily federal benefits). Otherwise, their most consistent attachments to freedom tend to be rhetorical, unless freedom means restricting reproductive choice, same-sex relationships, medical marijuana, or sexually explicit speech and permitting discrimination against people who do not acknowledge Jesus as their savior. For some prominent conservatives -- like John McCain, Mitt Romney, Sarah Palin, and Dick Cheney -- freedom also entails the establishment of a national security state empowered to arrest and imprison summarily people suspected of terrorism and to spy on people suspected of nothing in particular, thanks to a ubiquitous but largely invisible surveillance system.
There are, of course, exceptions to this statism. The CATO Institute, generally associated with the right because of its commitment to free markets, is equally, if less notoriously, committed to civil liberty. CATO is unusual in its consistent libertarianism, which means, however, that (like Reason magazine), it is a creature of neither the right nor the left. A recent CATO report estimates that some 14 percent of Americans also qualify as libertarian, meaning that they're fiscally conservative and socially liberal (although it's unclear if fiscal conservatives who believe "the less government the better" are willing to surrender their own government benefits, from Pell grants to Medicare).
Libertarians are labile voters,
(Excerpt) Read more at theatlantic.com ...
The fiscal conservatism and limited government portions of libertarianism would be of great import.
The rest, not so much.
A typical (and deliberate) misrepresentation of conservatism by a leftist. Libertarians seek personal and social anarchy; conservatives seek moral governance. Neither is reducible to a simplistic scale of “liberty.”
Yes, but we're trying to do that anyway. I'd prefer to see the libertarians aligning themselves with the left, and see if they can reign them in on spending a bit.
I think you’re probably correct.
Correct, but you need to add “moral relativism” to your list of libertarian ideals.
The usual Libertarian rant against those who realize that the advance of Islamic terrorism requires security measures that make libertarians nervous and motivate some of them to conjure up all kinds of Orwellian scenarios. Conservatives oppose the steady advance of a hedonist culture and most chose Christianity (or other religion) over secular humanism. Libertarians and conservatives may share some political DNA but we go our distinctly separate ways most of the time, and we should. This article demonstrates why.
The 'right' to kill a fetus? Some 'right'.
I'll second that. Such deception as this is all over America, and a reasonable true conservative voice is hard to find, basically repressed by the Media, and/or we have truly lost our way.
Libertarianism is NOT conservatism. Indeed libertarianism is basically shallow emotional reaction (as in 'reactionary') against the Left. Conservatism is, as you say, far deeper, and was once what America was about.
What an utterly clueless post.
Wendy Kaminer is with the ACLU - which means she is writing this to divide the right.
The greatest failing of libertarians is in selling what effectively is isolationism.
Like it is in the places where its now legal? In SF Hippies complain about phantom headaches and get perscriptions for "medical marijuana." Seems to me that about 90% of the people being perscribed want it for one reason: Because it is a mind-altering drug. There are better pharmaceutical options for all of the syptoms pot supposedly treats. Now, there are people dying of cancer, who claim that pot helps their appetite after chemo (there are other drugs that will do this). I sympathize with them, and would not have a problem with doctors prescribing pot to them so they could get stoned and say it was for the appetite. The rest of these people are just looking to get stoned. Even that wouldn't be such a big deal, except that when you are dealing with raw plants, there's no way to regulate the dosages. All people who seek to escape reality through mind altering drugs are obviously dealing with a reality that they would be better off addressing.
I support the limits granted to the government spelled out by the Constitution.
There are many things that social cons want that the federal government is not listed as having any authority over.
“Yes, but we’re trying to do that anyway.”
Hardly. Gutting the federal government is necessary, even things that otherwise have value (e.g., drug issues).
It all just needs to be gutted and let individual states decide.
Yeah, how about conservative relativism as well?
This is about where I like to remind all the libertarian lurkers who are about to get pinged into ths theard that President Reagan strongly opposed libertarianism.
I was glad to see the libertarian author recognize the fact that libertarian does not correctly belong on the political "right."
and that is the inherent paradox of libertarianism.....
“Keep government out of my kids’ schools and my household cuz my kids are my responsibility but please keep your hands off my body in case I decide I don’t want them.”
Personal anarchy is self punishing.
Alleyways with drunks and derelicts are self observant eduction.
Real, religious conservatives believe in free will, for good and bad.
A lot of social conservative support big government, high taxes because they can do social engineering better. /sarc.
But, look at what nation building has gotten us as well.
You're wrong. America is still a center-right country (40% conservatives and 30% liberals) even without the 5% who call themselves libertarians. Getting the right back to its conservative roots necessarily includes dumping the libertarian dead weight. Go screw up the debate on the left for a while. We'll be just fine.
Is that why you couldn't rebut it?
After reading just a few comments, above?
I highly doubt it.
IF the "Right" finds/learns anything?
It'll be instead of eating their own raw, cook 'em first.
Makes the foul practice of cannibalism a LOT tastier and much easier to swallow. LOL
Of course. You're a libertarian. As long as you accept that you're not a Conservative, we have no problems. Feel free to follow your irrelvant political philosophy. Just stop trying to infect mine.
It's not usually a good idea to invent terms, and then assume they will make sense to everyone who reads them.
I don't disagree with what you're saying, but you're still overreaching.
Everything about my profile page rebuts it.
How have conservatives done in the WWII abandonment of Eastern Europe, leaving the Korean War unfinished, abandoning the Mnung and South Vietnamese, the Cubans, El Salvadorians ( at the height of Reagan power ), the first Gulf War leaving Saddam telling the Kurds to rise up and leaving them to Saddam, even the post Soviet Management of Afghanistan.
Where have the Conservative prevailed in their interventions? It seems that conservatives have a pretty bad batting average. Not so bad getting to bat, just the batting.
Pre WWII conservatives were very isolationist all the way back to Washington.
So, I guess it is conservatives who have abandoned a some what non entangling heritage and since WW II have gone on a half hearted, not well executed schemes of Wilsonian wars. You know, for democracy, and like Wilson, left most of those wars un won and messy.
I’ll give President Bush so far credit in Iraq and Afghanistan, but we may well see them devolve.
Seems like I've run into you here before. If you have a point to make, make it. Otherwise you just sounds desperate: "You're wrong because... my homepage says so!!!"
The US falls back from the global stage, that vacuum I can assure you, will be filled by tyranny.
My point is that you are ignorant, repeatedly misrepresent things you don’t understand or are simply incapable of grasping, and also a flat out liar.
And I’ve proven that pretty concisely in post 30. Care to rebut?
“The rest of these people are just looking to get stoned. Even that wouldn’t be such a big deal, except that when you are dealing with raw plants, there’s no way to regulate the dosages. All people who seek to escape reality through mind altering drugs are obviously dealing with a reality that they would be better off addressing.”
Yes, who cares?
They are losers and always will be, whatever laws we pass.
Just tax the hell out of them and treat it like booze.
(And no, I don’t smoke anything. And I think pot smokers are shmucks. I am tired of wasting my money to make drug smugglers in Mexico rich.)
The stalwart value of conservatism is leaving idiots alone to make their own mistakes.
Government is not a nanny, left or right.
What you said. Once Republicans realize they need people like me ... well, they probably won’t admit it, but a girl can dream.
"Freedom is about authority. Freedom is about the willingness of every single human being to cede to lawful authority a great deal of discretion about what you do."
Conservatives want everybody to be free to think, say, and do what conservatives want them to think, say, and do. Liberals agree with that sentiment, they just want people to think, say, and do something different.
Libertarians think people should be free to think, say, and do whatever they want -- as long as it does not involve the initiation of violence, coercion, or fraud -- and to bear the consequences of their actions.
“Acid, amnesty and abortion”—the battle cry of the McGovernites—would make for an appropriate Libertarian slogan.
I don’t wish to debate the merits of an isolationist mentality or what fruits or lack thereof were born of past policys. Personally I strongly reject isolationism. I’m convinced to enough degree standing in the way of baddies even if half successful has strong merits.
What I point out is that libertarians are going up hill and up stream on that matter with the electorate. That isn’t going to change. Just political reality. I don’t see anywhere for them to gain traction frankly.
“The greatest failing of libertarians is in selling what effectively is isolationism.”
BINGO. And too many are simply hedonists or libertines.
I just don’t want to spend my money trying to control morons.
Looks like I picked the wrong decade to innocently sign up on a Conservative website 4 years ago as (small ‘L’) libertarian27.
Note to anyone signing up for a new site - think long and hard what your nickname will be because years later it may come back and bite you.
And people will yell at you thinking you are a dope smoking baby killer anarchist...Aargh
‘C’onservative - ‘l’ibertarian - ‘r’epublican
Maybe I’ll re-sign CLR: (calcium,lime,rust)lol
They only admit it and react to it when their negligence costs them elections. Precisely what many are doing now.
Only by the demagougues and flat out liars here, buddy.
Wear that tag proudly, because you know what it really means!
Small (l)ibertarians are a substantial percentage of the GOP base.
Without them, the GOP: cannot win.
“Will the Right Find Libertarianism?”
Good grief. Let’s hope not. You think the liberal Democrats and socialists are oppressive and antagonistic toward Christians, Jews and others of western faiths. I’ve seen the Liberterian bigotry and antagonism against them—us—right here on Free Republic. Christian and Jewish faith compassion completely contradicts the selfish, self-centered ideology of many or most Libertarians. If forced to choose between the Throw-’em-out-if-they-can’t-pay-their-own-way mentality or the mentality of the Good Samaritan, I choose the Good Samaritan.
“First thing I and most Conservative Christians vote is pro-life....so no...no libertarianism for this Christian.”
I am unaware of a conflict.
The small l libertarian position is generally to revoke Roe v. Wade and return the issue to the states.
Big L libertarians are pro-abortion.