A doctor's perpective of Obamacare - Healthcare delivery bankruptcy Please read

Makes very valid and extremely scary points. Is this the crisis?

Bump.

interesting

Thank you.

Bump for later reading and posting elsewhere...

bttt

When people realize that we have been subjected to one after another manufactured crisis they ARE NOT going to be very happy at all!

Excellent, my brother. Says it all. Wish I wrote it.

Your analysis is as cogent, as predictive, as anything I have read these several months. And I have gone back to read your previous posts. In a word, thank you, Doc, for all that you bring to this national discussion. I will send your post wherever I can.

And, entirely apart from the destruction of everything we have worked our whole lives for (I just passed the point of doing this for half of my life) - to have a Congress capable of such a work of destruction is so revolutionary! Usually they can skate past the destructive effects of what they have done.

Not this time.

This govt takover of so much of the US economy (artificial, unsustainable ecomomy) should finally topple our country into martial law and a police state. No elections, massive layoffs of govt workers that maintain the public infrastructure, empty professional and commercial real estate, empty homes as we move into cheap apartments and tents, no proper refuse handlling, widespread preventable illness, then desease...Well done, socialists.

Funny thing is, most of the voters that put these representatives that are trying to execute this govt takover into office are not really evil, just incredibly igonorant.

Most of what you stated above was so obvious to most members of this website it does not need to be rehashed.

Some of us were warning of the dire consequences of government involvement in healthcare via the case of Terri Schiavo.
Perhaps you remember her government court ordered “murder/execution” via forced starvation and dehydration?
If anyone but “the government” did that to a death row inmate, a POW, or a stray dog or cat, they would have been charged with any number of “inhumane” anti-cruelety laws.
Lots of us folks with no monetary interest, fought hard to save her, and we lost.
I see you logged on here well after her death.
Just curious...what was your stand in her case?

Obviously you don't have to answer me.

Hopefully you will start thinking about it.

Her palliative health care expenses was supposed to have been “fully paid for” in advance, yet our entire health provider industry seemed almost to be frothing at the mouth,in thirsting for her death.

Pardon me if I have judged you as just some idiot, who only now that your own personal income is at risk, partially understands what is at stake with even more government control of healthcare.

“So to keep the boat afloat, the payouts by private insurers MUST increase to subsidize the ever increasing losses doctors incur by taking care of our government patients.”

About 15 years ago I had some surgery. I exclaimed to the Doc on how expensive it was. I guess this would have been right around the time of “Hillary Care”.

He told me “the U.S. already has socialized medicine”. Then went on to say the things in your post. I forget the actual numbers, but he said my minor surgery, which cost me (and my Insurance company) about $4,000 - was really worth about $2,000.

Just imagine what it will be after Obamacare. Except the doctors won’t get paid more. So why bother. Luckily the government will be there to solve the crisis. Probably using the General Motors plan.

I’ve tweeted it out — begging people to read it. Thank you. I completely agree with your assessment. I have such respect for doctors still working in the current environment, and you do not deserve a dramatic DOWNTURN in remuneration: you deserve an UPTURN, where the good docs can be plenty rewarded, and the not-so-good are left out. We need more of the real market in health care. More paying directly.

We are governed by economic morons.

Until that changes, not much else will.

I just have to ask you to explain one sentence that underscores your entire argument here:

“Most people can see how this bill will rapidly reduce private insurance plans and rapidly expand government plan patients.”

How exactly do the current house and senate bills do this?

The current and future uninsured will be purchasing private insurance via exchanges and these premiums will be subsidized by our tax dollars...but it is still private insurance (which will be expanded). There is no public option or new government run insurance plan. Yes, Medicaid will be expanded to cover those at 133% of the poverty line but that isn’t a very big percentage of the uninsured. Those poorer are already on Medicaid.

Mandating the uninsured to purchase private insurance with subsidies will actually expand greatly the private insurance market by forcing millions of new customers to into the private insurance market and increase the risk pool as a whole and therefore strengthen private insurance from a financial standpoint.

Yes, those making over $250,000 will take it in the gut with a .9% increase in their medicare tax on their paychecks and investments under either of the bills considered but I don’t quite see how “government patients” will increase as a result of this plan.

Government patients WILL increase due to a vast increase in Medicare patients (baby boomers) about to hit the government dole and/or a further increase in unemployment due to national and global economic conditions which results in more Medicaid patients. But neither of those scenarios have anything to do with the bills being considered by either the house or senate....at least directly.

Is there a new government insurance plan that I am not aware of in the bills?

I just have to ask you to explain one sentence that underscores your entire argument here: “Most people can see how this bill will rapidly reduce private insurance plans and rapidly expand government plan patients.”

The system runs on such narrow margins that even a 5% increase in Medicaid will be rapidly fatal.

And even before that, any responsible insurance company board will shut down their about to be company-destroying health insurance subsidiary.

These shell "health insurers" won't last 60 days.

VOTER
Read this later after coffee! ! ! ! !

“The system runs on such narrow margins that even a 5% increase in Medicaid will be rapidly fatal.”

Physicians and medical groups can reject medicare patients can they not? Also, to what economic data are you referring to conclude that a 5% increase in Medicaid patients would be rapidly fatal? We have had bigger jumps than that in the recent past without practice fatalities.

I am not saying that this isn’t a backdoor to single payer healthcare or “medicare for all” by crashing the private industry, which I actually think Obama wants to do, I am just trying to figure out how he’s gonna do it.

There will certainly be new regulations in place such as no lifetime caps on insurance and no denial of pre-existing conditions but I am still trying to understand how these bills are going to hurt the private insurance market by forcing 30 million new customers to buy from them.

You sound like you work for obama. All gung ho for obama care.

And no! You're wrong when you said: "Those poorer are already on Medicaid." They are not! My family, case in point. My sisters grown kids, all three can't afford insurance but are not on Medicaid. My own son, he sells his blood right now to get by. And that's how most of the people I know live. From pay check to pay check, if they can get work, they don't have insurance but their not on medicaid.

And the medicaid system will be flooded. And every state knows it. That's why so many of them are standing up and saying they're going to be fighting obamacare.

Yup ignorant, they just go on feelings...like, “We have to do SOMETHING for the millions who are uninsured, its not fair!!”

With a 3-5% profit margin, the enterprise is an extremely high-risk enterprise as any profit margin is is only a hopeful guess these days. In the credit derivative world, currently sinking the Western World, a drop of 3-5% in collateral value sinks billions of tranches of credit derivatives. Private medicine cannot survive chronic sub-cost payment.

The public has no knowledge of the vast, draconian medicare cuts to MD reimbuirsement of surgical subspecialists in 1991, a result of the 1986 Budget Omnibus Reconciliation Bill. One specialty was cut 50% on its time reimbursement, and additional amounts varying with the service...some specialists were cut, measuring results at the end of their billing year...cut to the tune of 65% in income for services rendered equvalent to the previous year, 1991. These rates remained about the same to the present time. None of this has ever been disclosed. The break year was 1990/91....data is very hard to come by unless individual specialists have saved their records. One specialist reported in 2000 that by the minute, his time in the OR was 75% for Medicare and Medicaid, and that time only provided 15% of his income. Managed care and PPO discounted minutes provided 85% of his income and amounted to only 25% of his time. Medicare and Medicare reimbursements, 75% of his time, and only 15% of his income did not come close to meeting his practice overhead. His bills and living were all contained within his private, non-govt. practice. He has stated that the data in his practice is similar today.

I'm on Gov’t Workman's Comp because someone ran a sign and tboned me. Some of my bills they are paying at only 15 to 25% of what is billed. Many, many docs won't take me as a patient, and those that do are frustrated by the hoops we continually have to jump through, and how many we have to jump through depends on who we get on the phone that day. I'm embarrassed to go but it is necessary right now.

And the effects you describe are but the tip of the iceberg. I've become aware that my own little company - built at the cost of great sacrifice over more then 25 years - will probably not survive. The cost of employees will increase, which will increase the prices we charge our customers. Our customers will then decide to do less business with us because, not only have our costs increased, but their own costs (as well as the costs of all their other vendors) will have increased.

The result is a dramatic slowdown in an economy that is already headed towards ruin.

I am absolutely certain, and horrified, that we are on a path toward civil unrest and bloodshed.

I think the mechanism’s a bit different than you forsee. The bill provides for control of premium hikes. They’ll use that to keep the insurers from offsetting the practitioners’ losses, thereby bankrupting the insurance companies while simultaneously forcing the practitioners to adopt higher volume, lower margin, lower quality of care operations. With the private insurers broke, we’ll all be on the government plan, and the practitioners will be scraping by doing 10 minute patient visits. They’ll then congratulate themselves for the new “efficiencies” they’ve created.

I was just chatting with a doc at work and he made some other interesting points. For those docs that decide they might want to refuse to take medicare/medicaid/public option patients, the next step for mugabeobami will be to “deem” their professional licenses null and void unless they comply. This country ain’t seen nothing yet if this passes.

I’ve read a couple of different articles stating that approx 47% of MDs will quit or retire if this bill becomes law. That’s a massive hit. Throw in all of the other medical jobs, nurses, techs of various sorts, etc. that will be reduced by the lack of MDs.
Buh bye U.S. health care, hello 3rd world.

Another aspect is that the plan won’t force 30 plus million to buy health care. The fines are too low. Combine a requirement that plans cannot deny coverage due to a preexisting condition and high premium costs and many will make the economic decision to pay the fine and wait till they need health care.
They will then sign up and immediately cost far more than they pay.

Thank you for an excellent and informative post.

And the medicaid system will be flooded. And every state knows it.

MA definitely knows it -- they just won't admit it. These hordes of people who can afford health insurance but don't buy it just don't exist, at least not in significant numbers. So with the mandate, more are pushed into Medicaid (MassHealth, as it's known here). Reporting on the failure of the MA plan is thin, to say the least, but I've heard reports, not followed up on (of course), of at least three hospitals close to bankruptcy and four that are suing the state over the pathetic reimbursements. Taxes and fees have been raised to pay for it (in spite of two federal bailouts!).

The cost of MA health insurance (already the highest in the nation) jumped. (I've seen different figures, so not sure which is accurate.) More people are paying the fine rather than buying insurance. If they get sick, of course, with no exclusion for pre-existing conditions, they buy it, get treated, and drop it as soon as possible, so it's not the bonanza the health insurers expected!

Your question is excellent and indeed poignant and fundmental to the argument.
A few points to consider.
1) As is in the Senate Bill (No verion of the slaughter fix up yet,no?)- all people will be required to buy a “GOVERNMENT APPROVED HEALTHCARE INSURANCE PLAN.”
“GOVERNMENT APPROVED” is puporsely left undefined in the bill, stating that definition is left to be determined by the Secretary of DSHS. So A government approved plan can theoretically be private or public. There is nothing eliminating a public option. As we know they have kicked araound expanding the enrollemnt criteron to Medicare / Medicaid.
Their staretgy is to make private insurance companies non-viable first. They are the direct barrier to single payer. Private insruance must be destroyed for govermnet to be the ultimate insurer.
So, how to do this?
Lets look at the banks: Hello Mr Banks. You must make bad loans because we said so - and here is an incentive to do so, and nything that goes under - dont worry, we’ll hide it in Freddie and Fannie.

Today: Hello Mr insurance companies. You must write bad policies. - youo no longer can underwrite your patients. ie your business model must die. Bad loans = Bad insurance policies. Eventually they fail.
Or make the analogy to auto insurance. Pre-existing conditions = 3 DUIS, 9 speeding tickets and 5 accidents.
In this bill, the analogous health insurance company is forced to say yes. Underwriting risk - the life blood of the fundamental concept of insurance is stripped.
And like Fannie and Fae there to sweep up the pieces; so too will the clause of “gov approved health cae plans to be determined in the future by Secretart of DSHS - be the dumping grounds for these failures. Think about it.
When current private heath insurance business show systemic failures, there is nothing in the Senate bill preventing the DSHS secretary deeming a series of new government programs the new “approved health care plans”; or in such a crises - DHSH secretary deeming the expension to new enrolees to both Medicare and Medicaid. It was not long ago that the expansion to Medicare to an age of 50 was kicked around. And that that was just tailgaiting. Do we believe for one minute that once insurance co’s show failures, that the rationale to resurrect, expand create and ‘deem’ gov backed plans to be the fall back position?
Of course it will.
The only other alternatives would be:
1) Hey, we’re breaking private insrance companies - damn that could lead to single payer gov system - lets lay off and pass legislation to get these guys back ontheir feet. Something tells me thats a very cold day in hell.
2) Well, we did say vaguely, “no public option”. Of course the wording is here to allow it to occur; but we have to stick to our word and we’ll let the private sector develop a new creative way of insuring people and we’ll just stand aside while the private system figues it out.

Call me a pessimist - but that is just not gonna happen. They have clearly shown that their fundamental intentions are to assume and absorb the private sector into their public and governmental bureaucracies. Nd this is there most prozed posession.

So yes jackmercer, you are correct in that as is there is no obvous public options clearly constructed. But the language is there to create it, and the war is being fully waged against the private insurers. Public option is inevitable. It will will be over-run with all the patients dropped by the businesses willing to take the penalty over the tax; over-run by the patients dropped from a failed private insurance plan.

This goverment insurance policy migration is inevitable,and will be exponentially faster and more massive than anyone will predict, and the subsequent lethal business effects on the private healthcare delivery systems will be swift and thourough.

Thank you everyone so far with you kind and supportive comments.
This is the real tragedy. insuance companies are the life blood to the healthcare system.
Kill the life blood, you kill the system.

A VERY good essay, I appreciate you laying the situation out like this. I thought I knew a lot about the Healthcare situation and how it got there. But you opened my eyes to the Medicare and Medicaid contributions to cost escalations.

So my advice to you and your fellow Doctors: Prepare yourselves to be Nationalized. Everyone in the Healthcare field stands a very good chance of becoming workers/slaves to the Government, also known as the only provider of healthcare. It’s a terrifying thought, isn’t it.

It’s a terrible thing to be demonized for wanting to bring comfort and healing to others and to make a decent living also. The hours that most Healthcare professionals work is nearly insane. I didn’t want to do it, so I took a different path in life. But I can admire you and your compatriots for doing what you do.

If we make it through this and don’t have Government Healthcare shoved down our throats, then we need to take the steps to insure it never comes this close again.

We are governed by economic morons. Until that changes, not much else will.

That is the real core of the problem.

Our leaders have two principal tasks: national defense, and managing the multi-trillion dollar income transfer machine that, tragically, is our national economy.

The economic model in vogue with the elites is sophomoric socialist fantasy having little to do with real world economics. The only hope is to elect people who challenge the childish economics taught by the Ivy League/Oxford/Cambridge progressive training camps.

Jimmynomics gave us Reagan. The only hope I see is a similar reaction to the even worse Obamanomics.

Mass. State Treasurer Timothy P. Cahill (I): RomneyCARE
is bankrupting Massachusetts and will do the same nationally.

"Romney admitted ... that about half of the real costs of "extending
coverage to the uninsured... is covered by federal tax dollars.

Mr. Romney's RomneyCARE is doing what entitlements do: crowding
out private insurers, compounding the cost explosion, walking the state toward rationing.

From CATO (the whole article is worthwhile): "Of the 133,000 people who have signed up for insurance since the plan was
implemented, slightly more than half have received totally free coverage."

"Health Care Speechwriter for Edwards, Obama & Clinton Now Without Health Insurance"
I'm a critic because what Washington is talking about doing
has made health insurance unaffordable in Massachusetts.

"Small businesses bridle at health insurance hikes (Romneycare strangles Mass. businesses)
some really bad news from Blue Cross-Blue Shield: His company's health insurance rates are going up 47 percent in January."

" Rationing medicine has already begun
… government-
run health care has introduced rationing and waiting lists and cost the lives of the people under its provisions."

"DEATH PANELS OPEN FOR BUSINESS IN MASSACHUSETTS"

"President Obama's newly confirmed regulatory czar defended the
possibility of removing organs from terminally ill patients without their permission."

"You can't reap these savings without limiting patients' choices in some way," said Paul Levy, CEO of Beth Israel Deaconess."

"State plan may place limits on patients' hospital options( Mass. RomneyCare )"

"Romney Visits Nebraska, Talks Health Care [where he defends Romneycare] "

"Paying the Health Tax in Massachusetts [Romneycare]
Unless we ponied up for a pricier policy we
neither need nor want-or enrolled in a government-sponsored insurance plan-we
would have to pay $1,000 each year to the state.
How did we become outlaws?"

The Massachusetts debacle, coming soon to your neighborhood."
The state's overall costs on health programs have increased by 42% (!) since 2006."

A Very Sick Health Plan; Bay State's 'Grand Experiment' Fails [RomneyCare]

Health care in Massachusetts: a warning for America [Romney brings Mass. to its knees]
The Bay State's mandatory insurance law is raising costs, limiting access, and lowering care. "

"'Severe' doc shortage seen hiking wait time
"The shortage is getting more severe""

"Health costs to rise again.( RomneyCare )
The state's major health insurers plan to raise premiums by about 10 percent next year"

"Nation's ill-advised to follow Mass. plan [Health plan a failure]
September 17, 2009 The canary is dead."

"Bay State Insurance Premiums Highest in Country - Boston Globe August 22, 2009"

"Massachusetts: the laboratory for ObamaCare"

"Massachusetts' Obama-like reforms increase health costs, wait times [RomneyCare]
Premiums are growing 21 to 46 percent faster than the national average"

"Mass. Pushes Rationing to Control Universal Healthcare Costs (RomneyCare)"

"1,000 cancer patients 'refused treatment'"

"Massachusetts Universal Healthcare System Breaking Down Already"

"Hospital patients 'left in agony'"

"Mr. Romney should have known better before signing on to this not-so-grand experiment, especially since the state's "free market" reforms that he boasts about have proven to be irrelevant when not fictional.
Only 21,000 people have used the "connector" that was supposed to link individuals to private insurers."

A Very Sick Health Plan; Bay State's 'Grand Experiment' Fails [RomneyCare]
Even though the Bay State commenced its program with a far smaller percentage of uninsured residents than exists nationwide,
"RomneyCare" is threatening to bankrupt the state."

"Dem Congresswoman Admits Obama Health Care Plan Will Destroy Private Health Insurance Industry"

"Romney's mistreatments a sick man,"

Where is RINO Romney
as the Dems push through ObamaCARE?

Answer: The RINO coward is hiding, sending out his saboteurs
against Gov. Palin and all conservative GOP stars again,
selling his ghostwritten book, helping Gore push the fraud of climate change,
and attacking the "tea party".

We won't let the elderly be turned into another shovel ready govt project.

This law is the equivalent of the 55 MPH speed limit only it will turn into a big joke about how to avoid bleed traps instead of speed traps.

Isn't the scenario outlined in the story exactly what 0 wants to happen to this country?

What better way to build a new Reich then from the ashes of the old system.

“you kill the system”

BINGO....we have a winner! Good post, the fact is this is the CLOWARD/PIVEN overwhelm the system to destroy it and bring on a crisis solved by gov’t takeover... right before our eyes with the lamestream media cheering the Alinski-ites on ... line up your American trained Dr in Panama if you know you are gonna need treatment...

ymmv

I agree with the physician totally. We are barely keeping our doors open now. The .gov delayed our Medicare payement for 2 weeks and we had to borrow money for the first time in 36 years to make pay roll. My pay the first 3 months of this year have been cut almost in half. I am making 55,000 a year this year if this keeps up. This is with increased work load. I did 60,000 more care last year increasing my patient load from 32 a day to 50. This is insane. We have 60% medicare and medicaid patients. That is our problem. We have about only 5% private pay. We collect 95% of our private pay charges and on average the private insurance plus the .gov is around 60%. I do not know what is going to happen. We may have to close. It is getting desperate out here.

We are also forced to take generic drugs that don’t work as well, and need more frequent testing driving up the cost of care. We are forced to RENT things like sleep apena machines, when buying them would be cheaper in the long, run. We are forced to put Loved Ones in costly nursing homes, when just a Nurses Aide coming in couple days a week would be cheaper. List goes on and on of what would reduce cost, and not need this OBAMANATION with the IRS in control.

I don’t want some pimple faced 25 year old IRS agent who has never been to Med School making medical decisions for me!

Except The Med in Memphis, it gets a big infusion of cash, only public hospital giving out FREE health care to illegals.

#

KEEP THE CALLS UP! DC OFFICE LOCAL OFFICE

Hold your own street protest in front of your reps local offices. Or busy street corners. Try and get the local media to cover it. Hammer the Medicare/SS issue, nothing like mad grannies and gramps.

This is from a 2007 contact list of congressional aides. Some might not be there any longer, but worth a try. The ones on the one post are senate aides, a few have bounced back, it’s worth the effort to clog up their email system along with the phones, and 1/3rd of these senators are up for re-election.

Mail must be inspected for anthrax takes 2 weeks, so if you snail mail send a post card

Contact congressional aides.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1857768/posts
U.S. Senate switchboard: (202) 224-3121
U.S. House switchboard: (202) 225-3121
White House comments: (202) 456-1111
Find your House Rep.: http://www.house.gov/writerep
Find your US Senators: http://www.senate.gov/general/contact_information/senators_cfm.cfm
Toll free to the US Senate:
1-800-882-2005. (Spanish number)
1-800-417-7666. (English number)
Courtesy of a pro-amnesty group, no less!!

Defeat Obamacare call list: List now contains the new MAYBES culled from FR posts. Be sure to call KNOWN RINOS too.THEY ARE ANSWERING THEIR LOCAL NUMBERS

Here is one of the ones Rush gave out on the radio that I’m calling. So far it’s been busy but I’m going to burn it up till I get to tell my congress critter to vote NO!
Join me?..... 1-877-762-8762

CODE RED Contact list http://www.nrcc.org/CodeRed/targets/
Remember they are all being offered BRIBES for their votes. Ask them how much their bribe price is.

The National Republican Congressional Committee has published a target list on health care. In addition to continuing to contact the five Tennessee Democrat Congressmen, you can go http://www.votervoice.net/link/clickthrough/ext/94697.aspx to contact some of these targets. Much of the talk following Obama’s announcement has focused on how to defeat this second bill through reconciliation, but that is misleading because the first step to defeating Obamacare is not by concentrating on defeating the “fixer” bill but by defeating the Senate bill in the House when it goes to the floor for an up-or-down vote on Sunday March 21st.

Good idea from the bloggers at Hillbuzz:

http://hillbuzz.org/2010/03/17/action-items-march-17th-2010/
They offer specifics and links on how to put pressure on Dem DONORS, who have private numbers for legislators who may have taken their phones off the hook.

Congress may not want to hear from us, but they’ll listen to the money men.
Call them and fax them them instead of telling us you don’t trust them.

www.faxzero.com for two free faxes a day.
www.gotfreefax.com for another 2 free faxes per day.
Congressional Dems on Twitter
http://www.arrghpaine.com/congressional-dems-on-twitter

RUSH says to pressure these 2

Charles Wilson, Ohio Toll Free Number 888-706-1833 DC (202) 225-5705 fx: (202) 225-5907, Bridgeport, (740) 633-5705 fx: (740) 633-5727, Canfield, (330) 533-7250 fx: (330) 533-7136 Marietta, : (740) 376-0868 fx: (740) 376-0886 Ironton, (740) 533-9423 fx: (740) 533-9359 Wellsville, 330) 532-3740 Canfield, here is the zip code 44406.
Joe Cao DC (202) 225-6636 Fax: (202) 225-1988, NO (504) 483-2325 Fax: (504) 483-7944

NEW FLIPPERS

Rep. Bart Gordon TN (202) 225-4231 Fax: (202) 225-6887 Murfreesboro, TN 37130
(615) 896-1986 Cookeville (931) 528-5907 Gallatin, (615) 451-5174
Mark Schauer D.C. (202) 225-6276 Fax: (202) 225-6281 Jackson, MI (517) 780-9075
Fax: (517) 780-9081 Toll-Free: (877) 737-6407
Dennis Kucinish, Lakewood 216)228-8850, Fax (216)228-6465,
Parma. 440)845-2707, Fax (440)845-2743, DC (202)225-5871
Dennis Cardoza DC (202) 225-6131, Fax: 225-0819, 800-356-6424, Merced, (209) 383-4455 Fax: 726-1065 Modesto 209) 527-1914 Fax: 527-5748 Modesto, (209) 527-1914
Fax: 527-5748
Jim Costa Fresno 559-495-1620, Fax:559-495-1027, Bakersfeld, 661-869-1620 Fax: 661-869-1027 DC Phone:202-225-3341 Fax: 202-225-9308 Fax (202)225-5745

James Oberstar (202) 225-6211, Duluth (218) 727-7474, Chisholm (218) 254-5761, Brainerd (218) 828-4400, North Branch, (651) 277-1234
Gabrielle Giffords (202) 225-2542 (520) 881-3588 AZ 8th District
John Boccieri (D), Ohio Voted Yes on Stupak, NO on Health Care.Contact info - DC office (202) 225-3876 - Fax - (202) 225-3059 (330) 489-4414, Local Fax - (330) 489-4448
Betsy Markey DC 202.225.4676, fx. 202.225.5870, Ft. Collins, 970.221.7110fx 970.221.7240, Greeley, 970.351.6007 fx 970.351.6068, Lamar, 719.931.4003
fx 719.931.4005, Sterling, 970.522.0203 fx 970.522.1783
Alan Boyd FL DC 202) 225-5235, (202) 225-5615 Fax Tallahassee (850) 561-3979
(850) 681-2902 Fax Panama City (850) 785-0812 (850) 763-3764 Fax

S. Kosmos FL DC (202) 225-2706 Fax: (202) 226-6299, Port Orange, FL 32129
Phone: (386) 756-9798 Fax: (386) 756-9903 Orlando, FL 32826
Phone: (407)-208-1106 Fax: (407)-208-1108
Brad Ellsworth IN Evansville (812) 465-6484 fx: (812) 422-4761 Terre Haute (812) 232-0523 fx: (812) 232-0526 DC ph: (202) 225-4636 Toll Free: (866) 567-0227
fx: (202) 225-3284
John Tanner (202) 225-4714, Union City, (731) 885-7070, Jackson Phone: (731) 423-4848, Millington (901) 873-5690 TN (RETIREING, His going away present to the USA.
Thinks you are harassing him! Rep. John Garamendi’s (CA-10) (202) 225-1880
Fax: (202) 225-5914 Walnut Creek, (925) 932-8899 fax: (925) 932-8159 Antioch (925) 757-7187 Fax: (925) 757-7056 Fairfield, Phone: (707) 438-1822 Fax: (707) 438-0523

MOVED TO UNDECIDED
rec’d from NCTeaParty.com — Despite earlier assurances that he was a NO on health care reform and would not change his mind, Rep. Heath Shuler, NC 11, is now undecided.
Rep. Heath Shuler, North Carolina 11th http://shuler.house.gov/ DC Office Number: (202) 225-6401, DC Fax Number: (202) 226-6422 Local Office Number: (828) 252-1651, Local Fax Number: (828) 252-8734 Chief of Staff: Hayden Rogers email: hayden.rogers@mail.house.gov
Lincoln Davis 202.225.6831Fax: 202.226.5172 Columbia Office 931.490.8675
Jamestown 931.879.2361 Fax: 931.879.2389 McMinnville, 931.473.7251 Fax: 931.473.7259
.............................................

Steve Cohen TN, DC (202) 225-3265 Fax: (202) 225-5663, Memphis, TN, 901) 544-4131 Fax: (901) 544-4329
Harry Mitchell (202) 225-2190 (480) 946-2411 AZ 5th District
Ann Kirkpatrick (202) 225-2315 (928) 226-6914 AZ 1st District
Jerry McNerney (202) 225-1947 925-833-0643 CA 11th District
John Salazar 202-225-4761 970-245-7107 CO 3rd District
Jim Himes (202) 225-5541 (866) 453-0028 CT 4th District
Alan Grayson (202) 225-2176 (407) 841-1757 FL 8th District
Bill Foster (202) 225-2976 630-406-1114 IL 14th District
Baron Hill 202 225 5315 812 288 3999 IN 9th District
Gary Peters (202) 225-5802 (248) 273-4227 MI 9th District
Dina Titus (202) 225-3252 702-256-DINA (3462) NV 3rd District
Carol Shea-Porter (202) 225-5456 (603) 743-4813 NH 1st District
Tim Bishop (202) 225-3826 (631) 696-6500 NY 1st District
John Hall (202) 225-5441 (845) 225-3641 x49371 NY 19th District
Bill Owens (202) 225-4611 (315) 782-3150 NY 23rd District
James Matheson Toll-Free Number 1 (877) 677-9743 (202) 225-3011Mike Arcuri (202)225-3665 (315)793-8146 NY 24th District
Dan Maffei (202) 225-3701 (315) 423-5657 NY 25th District
Earl Pomeroy (202) 225-2611 (701) 224-0355 ND At-Large District
Steven Driehaus (202) 225-2216 (513) 684-2723 OH 1st District
Mary Jo Kilroy (202) 225-2015 (614) 294-2196 OH 15th District
Zach Space (202) 225-6265 (330) 364-4300 OH 18th District
Kathy Dahlkemper (202) 225-5406 (814) 456-2038 PA 3rd District
Patrick Murphy (202) 225-4276 (215) 826-1963 PA 8th District
Christopher Carney (202) 225-3731 (570) 585-9988 PA 10th District
Paul Kanjorski (202) 225-6511 (570) 825-2200 PA 11th District
John Spratt (202) 225-5501 (803)327-1114 SC 5th District
Tom Perriello (202) 225-4711 (276) 656-2291 VA 5th District
Alan Mollohan (202) 225-4172 (304) 623-4422 WVA 1st District
Nick Rahall (202) 225-3452 (304) 252-5000 WVA 3rd District
Steve Kagen (202) 225-5665 (920) 437-1954 WI 8th District
Bart Stupak (202) 225 4735 MI (MAYBE)
Brian Baird (202) 225-3536, Vancouver, (360) 695-6292. Olympia, (360) 352-9768, (MAYBE)
senator mark begich (202) 224-3004 toll free. (877) 501 - 6275 just became a MAYBE
Alan Mollohan (202) 225-4172 (304) 623-4422 WVA 1st District
Nick Rahall (202) 225-3452 (304) 252-5000 WVA 3rd District
Steve Kagen (202) 225-5665 (920) 437-1954 WI 8th District
Bart Stupak (202) 225 4735 MI (MAYBE)
Brian Baird (202) 225-3536, Vancouver, (360) 695-6292. Olympia, (360) 352-9768, (MAYBE)
senator mark begich (202) 224-3004 toll free. (877) 501 - 6275 just became a MAYBE

NEW NO’s

Jason Altmire 202-225-2565, Aliquippa, 724-378-0928, Natrona Heights, 724-226-1304 (NO)
Michael A. Arcuri (NY-24) NO
Harry Teague NM NO

And here are toll-free numbers we can use to call any Senators or Reps.

At the first number below you must wait through a tape recording urging you to tell your Rep or Senator to vote “yes” for the health care bill. Just hang on and when the recording is over, you will get the Capitol operator. Just ask for your Rep or Senator’s office. Then you will either talk to an aid or have the chance to leave a message for him/her to vote NO on the health care bill.

When you use the second number and the Capitol operator comes on, just ask for your Rep or Senator’s office. Every time I use this number I get the Rep or Senator’s answer machine, so it may be set up that way all the time...to go to their answer machine. Either way you can leave a message to vote NO on the health care bill!

We need to use these toll free numbers that have been set up for the health care/ BO supporters and illegals to use! After all they are FREE!

1-866-220-0044, 1-866-338-1015, 877-851-6437, 877-210-5351
Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies
#
America flooding Congress with telephone calls
Saturday, March 20, 2010 9:12:13 AM · 20 of 20
GailA to Scanian

KEEP THE CALLS UP! DC OFFICE LOCAL OFFICE

Hold your own street protest in front of your reps local offices. Or busy street corners. Try and get the local media to cover it. Hammer the Medicare/SS issue, nothing like mad grannies and gramps.

This is from a 2007 contact list of congressional aides. Some might not be there any longer, but worth a try. The ones on the one post are senate aides, a few have bounced back, it’s worth the effort to clog up their email system along with the phones, and 1/3rd of these senators are up for re-election.

Mail must be inspected for anthrax takes 2 weeks, so if you snail mail send a post card

Contact congressional aides.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1857768/posts
U.S. Senate switchboard: (202) 224-3121
U.S. House switchboard: (202) 225-3121
White House comments: (202) 456-1111
Find your House Rep.: http://www.house.gov/writerep
Find your US Senators: http://www.senate.gov/general/contact_information/senators_cfm.cfm
Toll free to the US Senate:
1-800-882-2005. (Spanish number)
1-800-417-7666. (English number)
Courtesy of a pro-amnesty group, no less!!

Defeat Obamacare call list: List now contains the new MAYBES culled from FR posts. Be sure to call KNOWN RINOS too.THEY ARE ANSWERING THEIR LOCAL NUMBERS

Here is one of the ones Rush gave out on the radio that I’m calling. So far it’s been busy but I’m going to burn it up till I get to tell my congress critter to vote NO!
Join me?..... 1-877-762-8762

CODE RED Contact list http://www.nrcc.org/CodeRed/targets/
Remember they are all being offered BRIBES for their votes. Ask them how much their bribe price is.

The National Republican Congressional Committee has published a target list on health care. In addition to continuing to contact the five Tennessee Democrat Congressmen, you can go http://www.votervoice.net/link/clickthrough/ext/94697.aspx to contact some of these targets. Much of the talk following Obama’s announcement has focused on how to defeat this second bill through reconciliation, but that is misleading because the first step to defeating Obamacare is not by concentrating on defeating the “fixer” bill but by defeating the Senate bill in the House when it goes to the floor for an up-or-down vote on Sunday March 21st.

Good idea from the bloggers at Hillbuzz:

http://hillbuzz.org/2010/03/17/action-items-march-17th-2010/
They offer specifics and links on how to put pressure on Dem DONORS, who have private numbers for legislators who may have taken their phones off the hook.

Congress may not want to hear from us, but they’ll listen to the money men.
Call them and fax them them instead of telling us you don’t trust them.

www.faxzero.com for two free faxes a day.
www.gotfreefax.com for another 2 free faxes per day.
Congressional Dems on Twitter
http://www.arrghpaine.com/congressional-dems-on-twitter

RUSH says to pressure these 2

Charles Wilson, Ohio Toll Free Number 888-706-1833 DC (202) 225-5705 fx: (202) 225-5907, Bridgeport, (740) 633-5705 fx: (740) 633-5727, Canfield, (330) 533-7250 fx: (330) 533-7136 Marietta, : (740) 376-0868 fx: (740) 376-0886 Ironton, (740) 533-9423 fx: (740) 533-9359 Wellsville, 330) 532-3740 Canfield, here is the zip code 44406.
Joe Cao DC (202) 225-6636 Fax: (202) 225-1988, NO (504) 483-2325 Fax: (504) 483-7944

NEW FLIPPERS

Rep. Bart Gordon TN (202) 225-4231 Fax: (202) 225-6887 Murfreesboro, TN 37130
(615) 896-1986 Cookeville (931) 528-5907 Gallatin, (615) 451-5174
Mark Schauer D.C. (202) 225-6276 Fax: (202) 225-6281 Jackson, MI (517) 780-9075
Fax: (517) 780-9081 Toll-Free: (877) 737-6407
Dennis Kucinish, Lakewood 216)228-8850, Fax (216)228-6465,
Parma. 440)845-2707, Fax (440)845-2743, DC (202)225-5871
Dennis Cardoza DC (202) 225-6131, Fax: 225-0819, 800-356-6424, Merced, (209) 383-4455 Fax: 726-1065 Modesto 209) 527-1914 Fax: 527-5748 Modesto, (209) 527-1914
Fax: 527-5748
Jim Costa Fresno 559-495-1620, Fax:559-495-1027, Bakersfeld, 661-869-1620 Fax: 661-869-1027 DC Phone:202-225-3341 Fax: 202-225-9308 Fax (202)225-5745

James Oberstar (202) 225-6211, Duluth (218) 727-7474, Chisholm (218) 254-5761, Brainerd (218) 828-4400, North Branch, (651) 277-1234
Gabrielle Giffords (202) 225-2542 (520) 881-3588 AZ 8th District
John Boccieri (D), Ohio Voted Yes on Stupak, NO on Health Care.Contact info - DC office (202) 225-3876 - Fax - (202) 225-3059 (330) 489-4414, Local Fax - (330) 489-4448
Betsy Markey DC 202.225.4676, fx. 202.225.5870, Ft. Collins, 970.221.7110fx 970.221.7240, Greeley, 970.351.6007 fx 970.351.6068, Lamar, 719.931.4003
fx 719.931.4005, Sterling, 970.522.0203 fx 970.522.1783
Alan Boyd FL DC 202) 225-5235, (202) 225-5615 Fax Tallahassee (850) 561-3979
(850) 681-2902 Fax Panama City (850) 785-0812 (850) 763-3764 Fax

S. Kosmos FL DC (202) 225-2706 Fax: (202) 226-6299, Port Orange, FL 32129
Phone: (386) 756-9798 Fax: (386) 756-9903 Orlando, FL 32826
Phone: (407)-208-1106 Fax: (407)-208-1108
Brad Ellsworth IN Evansville (812) 465-6484 fx: (812) 422-4761 Terre Haute (812) 232-0523 fx: (812) 232-0526 DC ph: (202) 225-4636 Toll Free: (866) 567-0227
fx: (202) 225-3284
John Tanner (202) 225-4714, Union City, (731) 885-7070, Jackson Phone: (731) 423-4848, Millington (901) 873-5690 TN (RETIREING, His going away present to the USA.
Thinks you are harassing him! Rep. John Garamendi’s (CA-10) (202) 225-1880
Fax: (202) 225-5914 Walnut Creek, (925) 932-8899 fax: (925) 932-8159 Antioch (925) 757-7187 Fax: (925) 757-7056 Fairfield, Phone: (707) 438-1822 Fax: (707) 438-0523

MOVED TO UNDECIDED
rec’d from NCTeaParty.com — Despite earlier assurances that he was a NO on health care reform and would not change his mind, Rep. Heath Shuler, NC 11, is now undecided.
Rep. Heath Shuler, North Carolina 11th http://shuler.house.gov/ DC Office Number: (202) 225-6401, DC Fax Number: (202) 226-6422 Local Office Number: (828) 252-1651, Local Fax Number: (828) 252-8734 Chief of Staff: Hayden Rogers email: hayden.rogers@mail.house.gov
Lincoln Davis 202.225.6831Fax: 202.226.5172 Columbia Office 931.490.8675
Jamestown 931.879.2361 Fax: 931.879.2389 McMinnville, 931.473.7251 Fax: 931.473.7259
.............................................

Steve Cohen TN, DC (202) 225-3265 Fax: (202) 225-5663, Memphis, TN, 901) 544-4131 Fax: (901) 544-4329
Harry Mitchell (202) 225-2190 (480) 946-2411 AZ 5th District
Ann Kirkpatrick (202) 225-2315 (928) 226-6914 AZ 1st District
Jerry McNerney (202) 225-1947 925-833-0643 CA 11th District
John Salazar 202-225-4761 970-245-7107 CO 3rd District
Jim Himes (202) 225-5541 (866) 453-0028 CT 4th District
Alan Grayson (202) 225-2176 (407) 841-1757 FL 8th District
Bill Foster (202) 225-2976 630-406-1114 IL 14th District
Baron Hill 202 225 5315 812 288 3999 IN 9th District
Gary Peters (202) 225-5802 (248) 273-4227 MI 9th District
Dina Titus (202) 225-3252 702-256-DINA (3462) NV 3rd District
Carol Shea-Porter (202) 225-5456 (603) 743-4813 NH 1st District
Tim Bishop (202) 225-3826 (631) 696-6500 NY 1st District
John Hall (202) 225-5441 (845) 225-3641 x49371 NY 19th District
Bill Owens (202) 225-4611 (315) 782-3150 NY 23rd District
James Matheson Toll-Free Number 1 (877) 677-9743 (202) 225-3011Mike Arcuri (202)225-3665 (315)793-8146 NY 24th District
Dan Maffei (202) 225-3701 (315) 423-5657 NY 25th District
Earl Pomeroy (202) 225-2611 (701) 224-0355 ND At-Large District
Steven Driehaus (202) 225-2216 (513) 684-2723 OH 1st District
Mary Jo Kilroy (202) 225-2015 (614) 294-2196 OH 15th District
Zach Space (202) 225-6265 (330) 364-4300 OH 18th District
Kathy Dahlkemper (202) 225-5406 (814) 456-2038 PA 3rd District
Patrick Murphy (202) 225-4276 (215) 826-1963 PA 8th District
Christopher Carney (202) 225-3731 (570) 585-9988 PA 10th District
Paul Kanjorski (202) 225-6511 (570) 825-2200 PA 11th District
John Spratt (202) 225-5501 (803)327-1114 SC 5th District
Tom Perriello (202) 225-4711 (276) 656-2291 VA 5th District
Alan Mollohan (202) 225-4172 (304) 623-4422 WVA 1st District
Nick Rahall (202) 225-3452 (304) 252-5000 WVA 3rd District
Steve Kagen (202) 225-5665 (920) 437-1954 WI 8th District
Bart Stupak (202) 225 4735 MI (MAYBE)
Brian Baird (202) 225-3536, Vancouver, (360) 695-6292. Olympia, (360) 352-9768, (MAYBE)
senator mark begich (202) 224-3004 toll free. (877) 501 - 6275 just became a MAYBE
Alan Mollohan (202) 225-4172 (304) 623-4422 WVA 1st District
Nick Rahall (202) 225-3452 (304) 252-5000 WVA 3rd District
Steve Kagen (202) 225-5665 (920) 437-1954 WI 8th District
Bart Stupak (202) 225 4735 MI (MAYBE)
Brian Baird (202) 225-3536, Vancouver, (360) 695-6292. Olympia, (360) 352-9768, (MAYBE)
senator mark begich (202) 224-3004 toll free. (877) 501 - 6275 just became a MAYBE

NEW NO’s

Jason Altmire 202-225-2565, Aliquippa, 724-378-0928, Natrona Heights, 724-226-1304 (NO)
Michael A. Arcuri (NY-24) NO
Harry Teague NM NO

And here are toll-free numbers we can use to call any Senators or Reps.

At the first number below you must wait through a tape recording urging you to tell your Rep or Senator to vote “yes” for the health care bill. Just hang on and when the recording is over, you will get the Capitol operator. Just ask for your Rep or Senator’s office. Then you will either talk to an aid or have the chance to leave a message for him/her to vote NO on the health care bill.

When you use the second number and the Capitol operator comes on, just ask for your Rep or Senator’s office. Every time I use this number I get the Rep or Senator’s answer machine, so it may be set up that way all the time...to go to their answer machine. Either way you can leave a message to vote NO on the health care bill!

We need to use these toll free numbers that have been set up for the health care/ BO supporters and illegals to use! After all they are FREE!

1-866-220-0044, 1-866-338-1015, 877-851-6437, 877-210-5351

It will destroy private insurance companies because the fine for NOT buying private insurance will be less than the cost of the insurance. Young people will chose to pay the fine rather than purchase insurance since they cannot be denied coverage for a pre-existing condition. They can wait until they get sick to purchase insurance.

The fatal flaw for the insurance companies is that they can not survive if they are expected to cover pre-existing conditions without the pool of the insured being increased by bringing in young, healthy individuals. As explained above, there is simply no incentive for those people to enter the system until they actually get sick.

bttt

self grandizing ping for America

If they pass this thing they’re going to destroy the best health care system in the world. America is the place people come for the life saving care they can’t get elsewhere. And the democrats are going to kill that not only for us, but for people all over the world.

“You sound like you work for obama. All gung ho for obama care.

And no! You’re wrong when you said: “Those poorer are already on Medicaid.” They are not! My family, case in point. My sisters grown kids, all three can’t afford insurance but are not on Medicaid. My own son, he sells his blood right now to get by. And that’s how most of the people I know live. From pay check to pay check, if they can get work, they don’t have insurance but their not on medicaid.

And the medicaid system will be flooded. And every state knows it. That’s why so many of them are standing up and saying they’re going to be fighting obamacare.”

No, I sound like someone looking for a sober explanation and not hyperbole and innuendo. When I argue healthcare policy and economics with people, I want to know the details, not some emotional blather to throw at them.

And if your siblings are making less than 133% of the poverty line as I mentioned, then they are eligible for Medicaid via the vehicle that your state offers and if they aren’t on it, that is their fault. That’s what I meant by the pooorer are already on medicaid.

I am having a hard time coming up with comebacks when ppl say this program is identical to what was proposed by Dole and the Republicans as the alternative to HillaryCare in 1993, identical to RomneyCare in Mass., and more conservative than the plans proposed by Nixon and even Eisenhower. Once the public option was dropped, A lot of the conservative points of contention went right out the window.

So when I ask specific questions, I’m shilling for no one, I’m digging for information.

“Another aspect is that the plan won’t force 30 plus million to buy health care. The fines are too low. Combine a requirement that plans cannot deny coverage due to a preexisting condition and high premium costs and many will make the economic decision to pay the fine and wait till they need health care.
They will then sign up and immediately cost far more than they pay.”

That does make sense, the fines are pretty low around $950 or so the first year and slight increases each year after. I agree, that is not enough of an incentive to get people fully into the risk pool if the premiums are sky high.

But I haven’t seen any cogent projections of how forcing insurers to cease various denials will affect premiums in light of at least 15 million new members added to the overall risk pool (which is a VERY conservative estimate, say 50%) actually sign up under the mandate. Have you seen the subsidy rates for the various income brackets? They are pretty hefty subsidies.

But you are right, IF the premiums skyrocket and the subsidies cannot keep up, the whole plan goes right down the toilet and all we have is monetary confiscation at the point of a barrel.

Your posting history can show anyone that you are a troll. A well hidden troll, I'll give you that. But a troll none the less. You come out only to shill for democrats when it suites their agenda, and that is clear when one reads the few posts that you have made.

Thanks for taking the time to expand on the issue. So it is as I suspected, this is a backdoor route to single payer based on possible future laws, not current ones.

They did kick around expanding Medicare to age 55 just a few months ago but that didn’t last more than two days. Which kind of begs the question. If we have the most liberal house, senate and president that we have seen, IMO, in probably 70 years and they can’t pass a public option, how can government run insurance be expanded after this current group inevitably loses power in possibly 2010 and most definitely by 2012? Is your argument that the public will be so decimated by this that they will force even a Republican administration to expand government insurance? I’m not ruling that out, Johnson did the same with Medicare and Medicaid and it has become one of the third rails even with even conservative politicians, evidenced by Gingrinch’s results in 1995.

My hunch is that we will end up like Germany who has a system quite similar to the current proposals, a mix of a government subsidized private market and a public pool (roughly 50% of the market) which is similar to our 50% public that consists of medicare, medicaid, VA, SCHIP, etc. It hasn’t crashed their system yet and doctors aren’t fleeing Germany but I will grant you they have the highest health care costs as a percentage of GDP in Europe and some of the lowest health outcomes in Europe comparatively (though they still beat us in outcomes and cost as a % of GDP).

But we are a larger and more diverse country with a totally different social and societal dynamic so perhaps it will all come crashing down and force a UK or Canadian style system of actual socialized medicine. Or at least like most Eoropean countries with actual 100% socialized insurance. Once that occurs, then I agree, the United States as we know it will have been lost.

Where is RINO Romney as the Dems push through ObamaCARE?

Where is RINO Romney
as the Dems push through ObamaCARE?