Skip to comments.3D-face creator says Shroud proves resurrection (scientific evidence of resurrection?)
Posted on 04/02/2010 1:16:24 PM PDT by SeekAndFind
3D-face creator says Shroud proves resurrection 'Jesus was more than just a spiritual event'
Ray Downing and John Jackson, a physics lecturer at the University of Colorado at Colorado Springs who runs the Turin Shroud Center of Colorado (photo courtesy History Channel)
"People are not going to forget the face of Jesus this Easter," says Ray Downing, creator of the 3D computer technology that produced the "real face of Jesus" from the image of the crucified man in the Shroud of Turin. The image was seen in a highly watched History Channel special broadcast Tuesday. The program will be replayed Saturday night and Easter Sunday afternoon.
"Jesus was more than just a spiritual event," Downing said. "Studying the Shroud to produce the 3D face of Jesus, we encountered scientific evidence that the resurrection was a real physical event that happened in a moment of time 2,000 years ago."
In the two-hour documentary, Downing brought together science and religion by using cutting-edge computer technology to create a life-like image from the Shroud of Turin of the man millions have believed for centuries to be Jesus Christ.
The History Channel told WND the documentary was viewed by more than 2.2 million people, an 83 percent increase for the Tuesday 9 p.m. to 11 p.m. Eastern Time slot in which the documentary was first aired this week.
"The Shroud of Turin provides actual scientific proof that Jesus rose from the dead," Downing contended.
He said the shroud is encoded with a message undecipherable until the most recent advances of modern particle physics.
"Properly understood, the code contained in the Shroud of Turin records the moment of the resurrection," he said.
(Excerpt) Read more at wnd.com ...
True. But it matters not what that appearance was. It is not important. Those who would deny things based on an appearance or a lack of one are no more likely to understand the importance of his being a real person, in a real place, in a real time than those who deem it important.
Faith is not revealed by vision, rather vision can only confirm faith.
I entirely agree with you.
I'm not sure I entirely agree with that, either, the more I think about this. As I said in another post, He was Jewish, not Chinese; a man, not a woman. Just from those two points, both in Scripture, some "appearances" are not possible.
He was visibly changed by this and was almost moved to tears a few times during this program.
I agree. I saw the special. Beyond the Shroud itself, was the underlying sense of how it changes people. Several of the scientists were from STURP. I find it amazing that having come into contact with it once, it has become such a big part of their lives for more than 20 years now. The 3-d animator touched me deeply as he found out more and more what this broken body before him had been through. I got as much out of seeing how the Shroud changed these people as much as I did from the information presented. This is worth watching just for those reasons.
You missed my point entirely; I’m operating from the point of view that we’ll never know for sure who’s image is on that cloth until God himself says...”yeah that’s me”. Even if it was his “earthly image” the Bible records in Revelation what Christ really looked like to John when Christ revealed himself to him.
There is a reason why God commanded us to have no idols or make any graven images purported to be things of heaven or spiritual things. There is a reason why God (or by proxy via Michael the arkangel) hid the bones of Moses and why we have very few physical descriptions of persons in the Bible.The few descriptions there are, help explain the the context of the accounts of these individuals and why the stories unfolded as they did.
The Bible itself is devoid of any physical descriptions of Jesus, and I don’t think it was by accident! A Roman Historian Tacitus had recorded a physical description of Jesus in a history book describing religions of the empire as the researcher had purportedly spoken to folks yet alive who had seen him when the book was being written(65-70 AD?)
He was described as being about 69 inches tall, 175 pounds and having grey eyes, other wise looking fairly ordinary like most Jewish males at the time. In other words, nondescript, not very attractive nor ugly, a real “mook” as they might say in NYC.
Did he have a halo. He was wearing one in the paintings I have seen. ;0)
There is a reason why God commanded us to have no idols or make any graven images purported to be things of heaven or spiritual things.
Well, yes. He had not revealed any such.
Then, there was the Incarnation. St. Paul speaks of it thus:
4Hearing your faith in Christ Jesus, and the love which you have towards all the saints. 5For the hope that is laid up for you in heaven, which you have heard in the word of the truth of the gospel, 6Which is come unto you, as also it is in the whole world, and bringeth forth fruit and groweth, even as it doth in you, since the day you heard and knew the grace of God in truth. 7As you learned of Epaphras, our most beloved fellow servant, who is for you a faithful minister of Christ Jesus; 8Who also hath manifested to us your love in the spirit. 9Therefore we also, from the day that we heard it, cease not to pray for you, and to beg that you may be filled with the knowledge of his will, in all wisdom, and spiritual understanding: 10That you may walk worthy of God, in all things pleasing; being fruitful in every good work, and increasing in the knowledge of God: 11Strengthened with all might, according to the power of his glory, in all patience and longsuffering with joy, 12Giving thanks to God the Father, who hath made us worthy to be partakers of the lot of the saints in light: 13Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of the Son of his love, 14In whom we have redemption through his blood, the remission of sins; 15Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
And image indeed, for was not Man originally created in the "Image and likeness of God"?
Still, as I have argued above:
1) The particular appearance of Jesus is less important than the FACT that he did indeed have a particular appearance.
2) If, in fact, the shroud is Jesus' burial cloth, He may have left it as a reminder that the Incarnation was real. Maybe. IMHO.
I'm not sure I really have much more to say on this topic.
It could be interesting. With a 2-hour run time we’d have to TIVO it so we could FF through commercials.
Well lets just close by saying Christ said he was leaving the sign of Jonah as the only sign he would leave for a foolish generation who was always seeking after signs. To extend you an olive branch, the cloth could be a part of that same sign...and empty tomb and empty burial cloth with Christ leaving that image of himself as a sort of “Kilroy was here” graffiti mark upon the whole of matter. The thought that Christ might do that as a sort of “hey let’s leave them wondering” gesture does stimulate the humor imp in me!
Well yes, actually. And just like the signs He performed and parables He taught during His earthly ministry, some folks will "get it" ... and some won't.
And short of THE END, we'll never really know if the Shroud is legit or not. I don't think anyone will ever conclusively prove it to be a fake, or conclusively prove it genuine.
Just my thoughts.
Good thoughts. That is exactly what Isaiah prophesies. Pull your Bible out and look through that book.
Have you ever heard of Hans Scholl, the young medical student in Munich who, with his sister Sophie and a handful of others, organized the "White Rose" resistance group against the Nazis and were caught and executed in 1943? He saw the Shroud when it was being brought around Germany for public viewing when he was a teenager in the 1930's. We was deeply moved by it and it contributed to his re-conversion to Christianity, and then on to the anti-Nazi resistance.
I think God gives us sometimes these little hints, not to substitute for our faith, but to inspire it and to touch our hearts. If we are willing to be touched.
His name is Barrie Schwortz and he runs the site called The Shroud of Turin
What did Jesus look like?
Was he short or tall?
What was his visage?
This one who gave His all.
It really shouldn’t matter.
But then, it really does.
We know so little of Him.
Just that He came for us.
I would love to be there with him,
as He walked from town to town,
lifting up His brothers,
while putting Satan down.
But, as the days grew shorter,
could I be with Him?
Knowing of His burden
as He took away our sin.
In His final hour,
could I look up to see,
His pain enshrouded power
as He died for me.
We could not bear His burden.
could not watch Him die.
And yet, we are His harvest,
His disciples, you and I.
He rose again,
we know it.
Our hearts tell us it’s true.
Jesus face is in the mirror,
looking back at me and you.
Actually the book of Isaiah predicted that the Messiah
“For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him.” Isaiah 53:2
So there ya go Regular Joe...the Holy Spirit had already revealed to you our Lord and you didn’t even know the scripture verse. God bless you!
Wow, thanks for the info. I will read the Bible more. I look forward to reading Isaiah too.
It seems the physical appearance of Christ is important, so much that the description is included in Biblical prophesy.
Yeah well, in spite of the general description in Isaiah, Christ could have looked like me; I’m no basket of fruit to look at! He could have looked like you. He could have looked like any ordinary nondescript person.
And I think that was the whole point...then the disciples got a glimpse of WHAT HE REALLY WAS CAPABLE OF LOOKING LIKE on the mount of Transfiguration. John the Revelator also got a glimpse of Christ’s glorified form as well.
I think the point being argued a few posts back was how important was it to know what Christ’s true image looked like, despite the fact that he “had no form of beauty or comeliness that we should desire him”
Many feel that because of the 3d info found encoded in the shroud and the apparent blood splotches that this must really be the burial cloth of our Lord. I argued that we’ll never be ultimately be sure until Jesus said, “Yes that was mine!” and that I pointed out the Bible has very few pin point descriptions of its characters, and that it was done for a reason.
God hid the bones of Moses(via Michael the ark angel apparently) and buried them in a place no man would ever know for some of these reasons. If you could form an image a person( from known descriptions) or have access to their remains, then these could be venerated to the point of actual worship...which is a no no!
Still in the day of resurrection, it would tickle me pink to learn that when Moses body was raised from the dead, the location would be from the 50 yard line at MeadowLands stadium