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You Have the Right to Remain Silent (LT Colonel Lakin Read His Rights)
Safe Guard Our Constitution ^

Posted on 04/13/2010 8:19:14 AM PDT by Man50D

Washington, D.C., April 13, 2010. Army doctor Lt. Col. Terrence Lakin yesterday met with his brigade commander, Col. Gordon R. Roberts, who proceeded to read LTC Lakin his Miranda rights, and who informed LTC Lakin he had the “right to remain silent” because LTC Lakin is about to be charged with serious crimes. Col. Roberts was at age 19 awarded the Congressional Medal of Honor, the only recipient of the nation’s highest honor currently on active duty in the Army.

LTC Lakin had previously been ordered in writing to report yesterday to Ft. Campbell, KY and then on to deploy for his second tour of duty in Afghanistan. Lakin refused to obey these orders and instead came to work yesterday morning at the Pentagon. Late yesterday afternoon he was confronted by his brigade commander.

Before the meeting was over, LTC Lakin’s Pentagon Access Pass had been revoked, and his laptop computer was set to be confiscated.

The message to LTC Lakin is clear; through official channels, he was informed yesterday that he will shortly be court-martialled for crimes (specifically, missing movement and conduct unbecoming an officer) that for others has led to lengthy imprisonment at hard labor.

Lakin has announced in a YouTube video that has now been viewed more than 110,000 times that he considers it his duty to refuse to obey orders that would be illegal if President Obama is ineligible to hold office.

Meanwhile, cries mount for proof of that eligibility, but nothing has been forthcoming. The Obama campaign at one point released a copy of computer-generated abstract of information purportedly in Hawaii's records system, but the source of this information is unclear and need not have been a birth certificate issued contemporaneously and signed by the doctor who attended the birth. Even the document released was only a copy, and the version printed in the Los Angeles Times on June 16, 2008 is on a form only in use since late 2001. Even as it is, the document contains a warning that it is merely “prima facie”--threshold, rebuttable and thus inconclusive --evidence of birth, and the copy the Times printed mysteriously has the certificate number blacked out, thereby rendering the document unusable according to language on the bottom.

Given the seriousness of the offenses with which LTC Lakin is about to be charged, the American Patriot Foundation today renewed its plea for donations to its legal defense fund for LTC Lakin. Details are available at APF's website, www.safeguardourconstitution.com


TOPICS: Government; News/Current Events; US: Hawaii
KEYWORDS: army; birthcertificate; birthers; certifigate; lakin; military; naturalborncitizen; obama; terrencelakin
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To: curiosity

Please post a link regarding the reporter’s mistake.

Birth boy could settle this by showing us a birth document that says what hospital had the privilege. Then you could graduate from nitpicking to something more useful like nose picking.


1,151 posted on 04/16/2010 3:08:26 PM PDT by Natural Born 54 (FUBO x 10)
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To: Man50D
The court martial heard around the world!!!

A true blue American hero. May The LORD bless him and help him and us also by His mercy and grace through Jesus Christ our LORD.

1,152 posted on 04/16/2010 3:10:26 PM PDT by Bellflower (If you are left DO NOT take the mark of the beast and be damned forever.)
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To: Natural Born 54
Please post a link regarding the reporter’s mistake.

http://www.upi.com/Top_News/2008/11/04/Sen-Barack-Obama-Democrat-of-Illinois/UPI-33901225647000/

If you scroll down to the bottom, you will see this:

"(This item was corrected July 8, 2009, to fix the name of the hospital where Obama was born. The original item incorrectly identified the facility as Queen's Hospital, an error made by the writer.)"

Birth boy could settle this by showing us a birth document that says what hospital had the privilege. Then you could graduate from nitpicking

Nitpicking? Sorry, my friend, but you're projecting. I'm not the one fretting about the identity of the hosptial, which last time I checked isn't relevant to presidential eligbility.

1,153 posted on 04/16/2010 3:14:17 PM PDT by curiosity
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To: curiosity

I could care less which Hawaii hospital has been stated by BO or his family. Maybe the reporter made a mistake and maybe the reporter was told to say it was a mistake. To me, it is moot as I don’t believe it was either hospital. He’s not a natural born citizen no matter which hospital it was - anywhere on the planet.

You keep doing your job and we’ll keep digging. The truth IS going to come out no matter how much nitpicking you do. And if you had any sense, you would realize that having the truth about this guy come out is the best way this crisis can end.


1,154 posted on 04/16/2010 3:44:01 PM PDT by Natural Born 54 (FUBO x 10)
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To: Natural Born 54
I could care less which Hawaii hospital has been stated by BO or his family.

You seem to be taking quite an interest in it here.

To me, it is moot as I don’t believe it was either hospital. He’s not a natural born citizen no matter which hospital it was - anywhere on the planet.

So why the obcession about the name of the hospital and the long-form birth certificate?

1,155 posted on 04/16/2010 4:44:33 PM PDT by curiosity
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To: curiosity

I read your profile page and though you profess to be a conservative, say you are not a fan of Obama and something about “birthers” just inspires you to be an active after birther, I am not buying it. You post like a troll and I am done feeding you. It just gets boring like running around in a circle.


1,156 posted on 04/16/2010 5:06:34 PM PDT by Natural Born 54 (FUBO x 10)
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To: curiosity

Curiosity;
This is per the Occidental College Website. Here is the link again:
http://www.oxy.edu/x8270.xml


1,157 posted on 04/16/2010 7:17:34 PM PDT by etraveler13
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To: etraveler13
...since Obama was Adopted, retained his adopted name Barry Soetoro, there is not indication that he asked for or was granted a legal name change BACK to Barak Obama.

Or maybe it means that his name was never legally changed to begin with.

1,158 posted on 04/16/2010 7:47:29 PM PDT by lucysmom
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To: etraveler13

http://articles.latimes.com/2008/nov/10/sports/sp-crowe10

What his fellow ballers don’t seem to recall, however, is whether Obama played for the Tigers in a more formal capacity, as a former coach insists and the media have reported, and no tangible proof seems to exist that he did.

No photos showing the skinny teenager in short shorts.

No roster.

No box score.

No score book.

No mention in the school paper.

Nothing has been found, school spokesman Jim Tranquada says.

Basketball Coach Brian Newhall, who enrolled at Occidental the same year as Obama, says Obama does not appear in the JV team photo from the 1979-80 season, when Newhall and the future leader of the free world were freshmen.

Obama, he says, was his starting small forward in the 1979-80 season


1,159 posted on 04/16/2010 8:26:21 PM PDT by bushpilot1
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To: etraveler13
This is per the Occidental College Website

I read the article. I'm not sure I understand the significance. What about it, exactly, do you find so insightful?

1,160 posted on 04/16/2010 10:44:32 PM PDT by curiosity
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To: lucysmom

It is certainly possible Lucysmom, but the circumstantial evidence of that time says his name was changed specifically so he could attend elementary school in Indonesia. As we all know, there was no reason at that time to try and pull the wool over anyones eyes, so my bet is that it was changed. He went by Barry Soetoro at the Pinhaiou school in Hawaii as well. School pictures, etc.
I do not see any young pictures of him after the age of 5-6 as Barak Obama...but, it is possible.


1,161 posted on 04/17/2010 12:35:37 AM PDT by etraveler13
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To: bushpilot1

However, his best friend at Occidental is named at the website, and was there when he decided to change his name.


1,162 posted on 04/17/2010 12:37:49 AM PDT by etraveler13
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To: curiosity

Quote:
It was at Occidental where he stopped being called “Barry” and became Barack Obama, Newsweek pointed out in its account of Obama’s formative years that featured his black-and-white freshman photo on the cover. “It was when I made a conscious decision: I want to grow up,” he told the magazine.


At this time he was 20-21 years old. It indicates that previously, he had always been called Barry, not Barak
His School Record lists him as Barry Soetoro. So it was at this point in his life that he changed his name. He went to Indonesia and Pakistan before he started at Columbia, and it is not a stretch (Since he never had a US Passport until becoming a Senator for Illinois), that he retained a student visa and passport from Indonesia when he travelled.


1,163 posted on 04/17/2010 12:42:57 AM PDT by etraveler13
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To: curiosity

People love drama. Its another nail in his coffin.
Obamas father was not a citizen of the US, so, he cannot be a natural born citizen, hence, he does not qualify for President of the United States.
Everything else is an effort to know more about the most secretive president in US History IMO.


1,164 posted on 04/17/2010 12:45:26 AM PDT by etraveler13
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To: etraveler13

No mention of Obama on their official basketball page. The baseball and football page has the word alumni, it can be clicked but the word is not on the basketball page.


1,165 posted on 04/17/2010 12:57:43 AM PDT by bushpilot1
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To: etraveler13
His School Record lists him as Barry Soetoro. So it was at this point in his life that he changed his name.

In Indonesia. When he was living with his stepfather, Lolo Soetoro. When he was six years old. Last I looked, six-year-olds aren't responsible for parents' changing their name, and there's no proof he was ever legally adopted by Lolo Soetoro.

At Occidental, he changed his name from Barry (a nickname) Obama  to Barack (a legal name) Obama. There's no proof he ever registered under the name Barry Soetoro in any U.S. school he attended, including Punahou.

It's amazing how many myths and fantasies have been produced from one single image of a 1968 Indonesian school register.

"Proof," by the way, consists of evidence -- verified, authenticated, concrete evidence that would be acceptable in a court of law, according to the court's rules for such evidence.

1,166 posted on 04/17/2010 1:07:34 AM PDT by browardchad ("Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own fact." - Daniel P Moynihan)
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To: Don Corleone

because they were afraid brigade commander, Col. Gordon R. Roberts would not read him his rights and back Lt. Col. Terrence Lakin?


1,167 posted on 04/17/2010 1:15:38 AM PDT by Steve Van Doorn (*in my best Eric cartman voice* 'I love you guys')
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To: etraveler13
He went by Barry Soetoro at the Pinhaiou school in Hawaii as well. School pictures, etc.

I've seen pictures of Obama from the Punahou School yearbook identifying him as Barry Obama, not Barry Soetoro. If you would provide a link from his Punahou School days identifying him as Soetoro, I would appreciate it.

As far as the name "Barry" being evidence of a name change. I just don't see that as proving anything, I grew up with a boy named Robert but never heard him called that. When he was little it was "Bobby", then sometime in jr. high it became "Bob". In fact, most kids I grew up with had nicknames. Annette was Nettie, Kenneth was Kenny - you get the idea.

1,168 posted on 04/17/2010 6:57:34 AM PDT by lucysmom
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To: lucysmom

Then perhaps was simply party to fraud in Indonesia??


1,169 posted on 04/17/2010 8:34:32 AM PDT by edge919
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To: curiosity
If you scroll down to the bottom, you will see this:

"(This item was corrected July 8, 2009, to fix the name of the hospital where Obama was born. The original item incorrectly identified the facility as Queen's Hospital, an error made by the writer.)"

It's awfully nice of UPI to make the 'writer' fall on the sword. Of course, there's no byline so nobody is specifically cited to take 'credit' for the alleged error. Also, it doesn't wash very well. The reporter wrote that Obama 'described' his birth and birth hospital. IOW, the factual basis of this sentence is attributed directly to Obama. How would the 'writer' just randomly come up with the other major hospital in Hawaii for this story?? Sorry, but this error still points back at Obama. Let's quit making and accepting weak excuses for this fraud.

1,170 posted on 04/17/2010 8:42:43 AM PDT by edge919
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To: curiosity
So? I don't see why the timing concerns you. It's also possible that the digital camera's internal calendar wrong. That's happened to mine, and I haven't bothered fixing it.

The source calls itself 'FACTCHECK.' How do you vouch for facts when you can't get your own right?? And the 'fact' that they scrubbed their camera data means they're trying to hide their own incompetence or complicity. IOW, these knuckleheads don't have any credibility.

Seems to match fine to me.

Good, so you can explain how the paper grew?? The image below has the original scan pasted over top of one of the factlack photos. Notice how much extra margin there is outside the security border on the factlack document, yet you can see where the edge of the paper stops on the Obama scan. These documents do not match. Paper doesn't grow.



Sorry. I don't see the relvance.

Of course. No faither can see the 'revlance.' Honesty isn't one their hallmarks.

They verified the birthplace, which is all that matters for the purposes of eligibility.

No, actually they didn't verify. They said they saw alleged documents that allegedly verify a place of birth. This would have no value in court without producing the documents.

The only reason I'm bothering to post here is because I think the birther movement is hurting conservatives.

The only way it 'hurts' anyone is when people like you go around trying to tell them the issue hurts them. Honest people recognize that Obama hasn't proved his eligibility. Ridiculing the people who point this out is simply an agenda to make excuses for a fraud.

It's not unheard of for step children to use their step father's last name, even if they weren't legally adopted. In fact, I've know people who did this.

There are legal limitations on when and how this can be done. Otherwise one is committing fraud.

1,171 posted on 04/17/2010 8:54:22 AM PDT by edge919
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To: etraveler13
At this time he was 20-21 years old. It indicates that previously, he had always been called Barry, not Barak.

Yes, he stopped using his nickname at that time. So? Last time I checked, one doesn't have to legally change one's name to start or stop using a nickname.

His School Record lists him as Barry Soetoro.

A registration document from a private school in Indonesia listed him as such when he was 6 or 7 years old. That doesn't mean he ever legally changed his to Barry Seoterro. Nor does it mean he ever went by Seoterro while at Occidental.

All it means is that he Seoterro as an alias when he was a child living in Indonesia.

He went to Indonesia and Pakistan before he started at Columbia,

As many US citizens did, on US passports.

and it is not a stretch (Since he never had a US Pasport until becoming a Senator for Illinois),

How do you know he never had a US passport until then? What's your source?

1,172 posted on 04/17/2010 12:12:15 PM PDT by curiosity
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To: edge919
Good, so you can explain how the paper grew?? The image below has the original scan pasted over top of one of the factlack photos. Notice how much extra margin there is outside the security border on the factlack document, yet you can see where the edge of the paper stops on the Obama scan.

LOL. Are you serious? I can't believe you couldn't to figure this one out for yourself. But apparently you couldn't, so let me lay it out for you.

No, paper doesn't grow, but scan images can be resized. If you scan a paper that doesn't precisely fit some pre-specified dimensions, the scanner will shrink and resize the image to fit. If the proportions have to be changed, the scanner will distort the image.

Really, this isn't complicated.

There are legal limitations on when and how this can be done. Otherwise one is committing fraud.

I see. So it's possible that Obama's step father committed fraud when he as 6 or 7 years old. How exactly is this relevant to his eligbility to be president?

1,173 posted on 04/17/2010 12:28:37 PM PDT by curiosity
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To: curiosity
No, paper doesn't grow, but scan images can be resized. If you scan a paper that doesn't precisely fit some pre-specified dimensions, the scanner will shrink and resize the image to fit. If the proportions have to be changed, the scanner will distort the image.

Dude, just tell me you don't have a clue and spare yourself some embarrassment. This wasn't a result of being resized. Even it was resized, it doesn't explain why the edge of the paper is cut off, but not cut off at the edge of the jpg. The white strip around the document shows where the edge of the paper is at. Sorry, the obvious cause is that this not the same document factlack claimed to photograph. Whatever they photographed was most likely a print-out of the original forgery onto newly acquired certificate paper.

I see. So it's possible that Obama's step father committed fraud when he as 6 or 7 years old. How exactly is this relevant to his eligbility to be president?

Sure, it's possible Lolo committed fraud, but what would be the motive?? Obama has lots of motives for committing fraud, but as for Lolo, not so much.

1,174 posted on 04/17/2010 5:35:29 PM PDT by edge919
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To: bushpilot1

Why do I care about basketball?


1,175 posted on 04/17/2010 9:05:35 PM PDT by etraveler13
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To: browardchad

His School Record lists him as Barry Soetoro. So it was at this point in his life that he changed his name.

In Indonesia. When he was living with his stepfather, Lolo Soetoro. When he was six years old. Last I looked, six-year-olds aren’t responsible for parents’ changing their name, and there’s no proof he was ever legally adopted by Lolo Soetoro.


Actually, there is. Michelle Obama had an interview with African Press International, in which she stated “There is no shame in being adopted by a stepfather.”
http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=78041

The evidence would indicate young Barack Hussein Obama was adopted by Indonesian citizen Lolo Soetoro after Soetoro and Obama’s mother were married. The most convincing evidence is the Hawaii divorce papers filed in 1980 as Stanley Ann Soetoro vs. Lolo Soetoro. This document lists the couple as having two children. One is under the age of eighteen. That would be Maya Soetoro who was born in 1970. The other child is listed as over eighteen and in need of educational support. That would be Barry Soeroto (Barack Hussein Obama.) There are no other know children related to this marriage

As for the rest of your statement, Several lawyers have studied all of these issues extensively, and it was found, contrary to anything I have read thus far, that if you look at 8 U.S.C. Section 1435(a)(2) which states “on or after September 22, 1922, a women who lost United States citizenship by marriage to an alien ineligible to citizenship…” However, Indonesia also required Stanley Ann Dunham to relinquish her U.S. Citizenship, which is an affirmative act, therefore, Stanley Ann Dunham did not simply lose her U.S. Citizenship status by marriage alone.

Badfiction claims that a parent cannot expatriate a child’s U.S. citizenship, however, this is not correct. See The Nationality Act of 1940, revised 1952, Section 318(a) “A former citizen of the United States expatriated through the expatriation of such person’s parent or parents and who has not acquired the nationality of another country by any affirmative act other than the expatriation of his parent or parents may be naturalized upon filing a petition for naturalization before reaching age of twenty-five years and upon compliance with all requirements of the naturalization laws with the following exceptions: (b) No former citizen of the United States, expatriated through the expatriation of such person’s parent or parents shall be obliged to comply with the requirements of the immigration laws, if he has not not acquired the nationality of another country by any affirmative act other than the expatriation of his parent or parents, and if he has come or shall come to the United States before reaching the age of twenty-five years. (c) After his naturalization such person shall have the same citizenship status as if he had not been expatriated.”

Renewing an Indonesian Passport after the age of 18 is an affirmative act, as you are swearing allegiance to another Country. Soetoro/Obama renewed his Indonesian Passport when he traveled to Pakistan, that is why he had to stop in Indonesia first. Remember, in 1981, Dunham was divorcing Soetoro in Hawaii and was not in Indonesia. Obama/Soetoro admits to traveling to Indonesia first and then onto Pakistan. Soetoro/Obama claims in his book “Dreams from my father” that he stopped in Indonesia to visit his mother. But again, his mother was not in Indonesia, she was in Hawaii with Maya, divorcing Lolo Soetoro. In addition, the State Department has stated in response to a FOIA request that they do not have a U.S. Passport application on file for Barack H. Obama.

Despite the above however, Indonesia required Obama/Soetoro to do a bit more upon his 18th birthday. In fact the Indonesian law gives until the age of 21. Soetoro/Obama would have had to sign an Affidavit relinquishing his Indonesian citizenship and said Affidavit had to be sent to the Indonesian Government before reclaiming any U.S. citizenship he may have once held.

When it comes to the citizenship of individuals in other countries, we are prevented from interfering, Hague Convention 1930. Speaking of Indonesia, during the late 60’s all the way up until 2006 Indonesia did not allow dual citizenship. In 2006 they changed their laws to permit dual citizenship, however, Indonesia has had its battles with enforcing their new law permitting dual citizenship.

With this said, from the research we have done, it appears that Soetoro became an Indonesian citizen. When Soetoro/Obama was approximately four (4) years old his parents divorced and thereafter, Soetoro/Obama’s mother, Stanley Ann Dunham, married Lolo Soetoro, a citizen of Indonesia. Evidence points to the fact that Lolo Soetoro either signed a government form legally “acknowledging” Soetoro/Obama as his son or “adopted” Soetoro, either of which changed any citizenship status Soetoro/Obama had to a “natural” citizen of Indonesia.

At the time Barry Soetoro was in Indonesia, all Indonesian students were required to carry government identity cards or Karty Tanda Pendudaks, as well as family card identification called a Kartu Keluarga. The Kartu Keluarga is a family card which bears the legal names and citizenship status of all family members.

Soetoro/Obama was registered in a public school as an Indonesian citizen by the name of Barry Soetoro and his father was listed as Lolo Soetoro, M.A. Indonesia did not allow foreign students to attend their public schools in the late 1960’s or 1970’s, and any time a child was registered for a public school, the child’s name and citizenship status were verified through the Indonesian Government. See Constitution of Republic of Indonesia (Undang-Undang Dasar Republik Indonesia 1945), Chapter 13, Law No. 62 of 1958 (all citizens of Indonesia have a right to education). The Indonesian school record, indicates that Soetoro/Obama’s name is “Barry Soetoro;” his nationality is “Indonesia” and his father “Lolo Soetoro, M.A. There was no way for Soetoro/Obama to have attended school in Jakarta, Indonesia legally unless he was an Indonesian citizen, as Indonesia was under tight rule and was a Police State. See Constitution of Republic of Indonesia (Undang-Undang Dasar Republik Indonesia 1945), Law No. 62 of 1958. These facts indicate that Obama/Soetoro is an Indonesian citizen, and therefore he is not eligible to be President of the United States.

Under Indonesian law, when a male acknowledges a child as his son, it deems the son, in this case Soetoro/Obama, an Indonesian State citizen. See Constitution of Republic of Indonesia, Law No. 62 of 1958 concerning Immigration Affairs and Indonesian Civil Code (Kitab Undang-undang Hukum Perdata) (KUHPer) (Burgerlijk Wetboek voor Indonesie).

Furthermore, under the Indonesian adoption law, once an Indonesian citizen adopts a child, the adoption severs the child’s relationship to the birth parents, and the adopted child is given the same status as a natural child and the child takes the name of his step-father, in this case, Soetoro. See Indonesian Constitution, Article 2.

The Indonesian citizenship law was designed to prevent apatride (stateless) or bipatride (dual) citizenship. Indonesian regulations recognized neither apatride nor bipatride (stateless or dual) citizenship. Since Indonesia did not allow dual citizenship; neither did the United States (since the United States only permitted dual citizenship when ‘both’ countries agree); and since Obama/Soetoro was a “natural” citizen of Indonesia, the United States would not step in or interfere with the laws of Indonesia. Hague Convention of 1930.

As a result of Soetoro/Obama’s Indonesian “natural” citizenship status, Soetoro/Obama could never regain U.S. “natural born” status, if he in fact he ever held such, which we doubt. Soetoro/Obama could have only become “naturalized” if the proper paperwork were filed with the U.S. State Department, after going through U.S. Immigration upon his return to the United States; in which case, Soetoro/Obama would have received a Certification of Citizenship indicating “naturalized.”

We are informed, believe and thereon allege Obama/Soetoro was never naturalized in the United States after his return. Soetoro/Obama was ten (10) years old when he returned to Hawaii to live with his grandparents. Soetoro/Obama’s mother did not return with him. Therefore, it appears that she did not apply for citizenship for Soetoro/Obama in the United States. If citizenship for Soetoro/Obama had been applied for in 1971, Soetoro/Obama would have a Certification of Citizenship. If Soetoro/Obama returned in 1971 to Hawaii without going through U.S. Immigration, today he would be an “illegal alien” – and obviously not able to serve as President, but also his term as a United States Senator from Illinois for nearly four (4) years was illegal. We further believe Soetoro might have reentered the United States at age ten (10) by showing a copy of his Hawaiian Certification of Live Birth, which he received when his birth was registered in Hawaii.

In addition, we have been unable to locate any legal documents wherein Soetoro’s name was legally changed from Barry Soetoro to Barack Hussein Obama. Soetoro/Obama’s silence on these issues is deafening and his refusal to release such records to prove that none of this occurred results in his status as Acting Commander in Chief at best, and a willful action on his part to deceive the American People and the Armed Forces of the United States so that he may wield power that is in non-compliance with the United States Constitution.


1,176 posted on 04/17/2010 9:32:22 PM PDT by etraveler13
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To: curiosity

I just posted a long reply please read it.


1,177 posted on 04/17/2010 9:33:39 PM PDT by etraveler13
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To: BP2
Photobucket Photobucket
1,178 posted on 04/17/2010 9:33:48 PM PDT by bushpilot1
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To: lucysmom

Check the long reply I just posted.


1,179 posted on 04/17/2010 9:34:10 PM PDT by etraveler13
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To: lucysmom

Hi Lucysmom;
Here is a link to this issue previously discussed on FR. It covers students who knew his at Occidental.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/bloggers/2173340/posts


1,180 posted on 04/17/2010 9:55:29 PM PDT by etraveler13
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To: etraveler13

Whoa.


1,181 posted on 04/17/2010 10:20:04 PM PDT by Cyropaedia ("Virtue cannot separate itself from reality without becoming a principal of evil...".)
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To: etraveler13
I looked at your post and links. I must say the evidence is so weak some might call it nonexistent.
1,182 posted on 04/17/2010 10:28:57 PM PDT by lucysmom
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To: lucysmom

For some, no amount of evidence is sufficient.


1,183 posted on 04/18/2010 8:55:45 AM PDT by etraveler13
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To: etraveler13
For some, no amount of evidence is sufficient.

That Obama was called Barry rather than Barack as a child and young man is no evidence of an adoption or legal name change. If you want to be taken seriously, you need to come up with better stuff than that.

1,184 posted on 04/18/2010 9:42:32 AM PDT by lucysmom
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To: lucysmom

I disagree, I have provided information that you might not consider sufficient, but it was aquired by lawyers on current litigation, and to their mind, is sufficient to place before the court. I shared it with you, and you find it insufficient. I will not, and do not expect to satisfy everyone, but so far, your the only one who feels it is insufficient.
We all know that until this recieves a fair hearing in court, and discovery is allowed, anything that has been sealed by Obama will be speculation. Gathering of facts will always be a bone of contention based on the belief system of the reader, or their particular brand of politics. I accept that. The fact that its not good enough for you, is regrettable, but does not deter my belief stream, as you had not disproven anything offered, simply not accepted it. Thats fine with me.
I will not lose any sleep if you do not take me seriously, because, in the end, the facts, not me, will be weighed and measured, and that is all that is important ie. for the truth to come out, which ever side it falls on.
Obama is not qualified to be President because his father is not a US Citizen, and never was. He was or was not adopted is ancilary to the fact that his father was not a US citizen. At the VERY BEST, he is a naturalized citizen. Personally, I think he is an illegal alien, just like his aunt who is living in DC and has been the past 12 years, and on the public dole to boot.


1,185 posted on 04/18/2010 4:09:05 PM PDT by etraveler13
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To: etraveler13
I disagree, I have provided information that you might not consider sufficient, but it was aquired by lawyers on current litigation, and to their mind, is sufficient to place before the court. I shared it with you, and you find it insufficient. I will not, and do not expect to satisfy everyone, but so far, your the only one who feels it is insufficient.

Would these be the lawyers that repeatedly have their cases dismissed because they don't meet the most basic criteria, that is, standing?

No, I'm not the only one who thinks the use of a nickname is proof of adoption or legal name change. (Do you think "Scooter" is Libby's legal name?)

Obama is not qualified to be President because his father is not a US Citizen, and never was. He was or was not adopted is ancilary to the fact that his father was not a US citizen. At the VERY BEST, he is a naturalized citizen. Personally, I think he is an illegal alien, just like his aunt who is living in DC and has been the past 12 years, and on the public dole to boot.

The trouble is that Obama has never claimed that his father was anything more than an absent sperm donor and a citizen of GB and then Kenya. If that were sufficient to keep him out of the Oval Office, you wouldn't need these ancillary issues to pump up your premise that he doesn't qualify.

1,186 posted on 04/19/2010 7:47:53 AM PDT by lucysmom
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To: lucysmom

For your first statement, it is obvious to anyone that reads the judges dismissal statements that the cases are not being dismissed because of the merits, but technicalities.
For your second statement, your just being obtuse.
His father is not a US citizen, therefore Obama is not a Natural born citizen, therefore he does not meet the qualifications for the office. Period.
That IS sufficient for him not to be POTUS.

Just because a car thief steals a car, Possession does not equal Ownership. The fact that the thief has eluded the police, or they do not pursue him, does not make him less guilty, or NOT a thief....you ken?


1,187 posted on 04/19/2010 9:34:50 AM PDT by etraveler13
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To: etraveler13
I read your long post proporting to show Obama lost his US citizenship.

It is very nice, except that it ignores one curcial thing: US citizenship is governed by US law, not Indonesian law and not the Hague convetion.

Unfortunately for the birther case, there is no provision under US immigration law at the time (the 1952 immigration and nationality act) under which Obama would have lost his citizenship as a minor living in Indonesia, even if he were adopted by Lolo.

Sorry to burst your bubble.

Oh, and one other thing: WorldNutDaily isn't a reliable source, and neither is African Press International. The proported interview with Michelle Obama, wherein she supposedly admitted her husband was adopted, never took place.

1,188 posted on 04/19/2010 10:32:38 AM PDT by curiosity
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To: etraveler13
At the VERY BEST, he is a naturalized citizen.

The you should be able to find a public record of his naturalization.

1,189 posted on 04/19/2010 10:35:22 AM PDT by curiosity
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To: etraveler13
For your first statement, it is obvious to anyone that reads the judges dismissal statements that the cases are not being dismissed because of the merits

Standing is not a technicality. A case in which the plaintiff has no standing by definition has no merit.

1,190 posted on 04/19/2010 10:36:21 AM PDT by curiosity
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To: edge919
Even it was resized, it doesn't explain why the edge of the paper is cut off, but not cut off at the edge of the jpg.

LOL. Have you ever heard of cropping? I can see you haven't scanned many documents in your day.

1,191 posted on 04/19/2010 11:02:33 AM PDT by curiosity
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To: curiosity

Oh, and one other thing: WorldNutDaily isn’t a reliable source, and neither is African Press International. The proported interview with Michelle Obama, wherein she supposedly admitted her husband was adopted, never took place.


Newsflash Curiosity....

African Press International (API) claims to have audio recordings of Michelle Obama in a bigoted rant against “American bloggers” and anti-Obama media outlets (Fox?).

The release has taken long due to the fact that API wanted to clear all legal hurdles and be safe from getting sued by any one. API and a US Law firm - LAW OFFICES OF PHILIP J. BERG has just entered into an agreement giving the law firm the right to represent API in all matters that may arise due to the Michelle Obama interview and the release of the tapes in the US.

API has realised that the interview with Mrs Obama is of great significance in the coming elections. The release of the tapes is not intended to derail the elections or to destroy the chances that Mr Obama may have in getting elected the first black president of the United States.


1,192 posted on 04/19/2010 11:09:04 AM PDT by etraveler13
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To: curiosity

There is reading, then there is READING...


There are claims that a parent cannot expatriate a child’s U.S. citizenship, however, this is not correct.

See The Nationality Act of 1940, revised 1952, Section 318(a) “A former citizen of the United States expatriated through the expatriation of such person’s parent or parents and who has not acquired the nationality of another country by any affirmative act other than the expatriation of his parent or parents may be naturalized upon filing a petition for naturalization before reaching age of twenty-five years and upon compliance with all requirements of the naturalization laws with the following exceptions: (b) No former citizen of the United States, expatriated through the expatriation of such person’s parent or parents shall be obliged to comply with the requirements of the immigration laws, if he has not not acquired the nationality of another country by any affirmative act other than the expatriation of his parent or parents, and if he has come or shall come to the United States before reaching the age of twenty-five years. (c) After his naturalization such person shall have the same citizenship status as if he had not been expatriated.”

Renewing an Indonesian Passport after the age of 18 is an affirmative act, as you are swearing allegiance to another Country. Soetoro/Obama renewed his Indonesian Passport when he traveled to Pakistan, that is why he had to stop in Indonesia first.

Remember, in 1981, Dunham was divorcing Soetoro in Hawaii and was not in Indonesia. Obama/Soetoro admits to traveling to Indonesia first and then onto Pakistan. Soetoro/Obama claims in his book “Dreams from my father” that he stopped in Indonesia to visit his mother. But again, his mother was not in Indonesia, she was in Hawaii with Maya, divorcing Lolo Soetoro.
In addition, the State Department has stated in response to a FOIA request that they do not have a U.S. Passport application on file for Barack H. Obama.


1,193 posted on 04/19/2010 11:13:49 AM PDT by etraveler13
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To: etraveler13
African Press International (API) claims to have audio recordings of Michelle Obama in a bigoted rant against “American bloggers” and anti-Obama media outlets (Fox?).

Yeah, API claims a lot of things. Unfortunately, that doesn't make them true.

I'll believe the recordings exist when I hear them.

The release has taken long due to the fact that API wanted to clear all legal hurdles and be safe from getting sued by any one.

Sure. Just like the transfer of the title to the bridge you bought last week from Joey in Brooklyn is taking longer than expected. ROFLOL.

API and a US Law firm - LAW OFFICES OF PHILIP J. BERG has just entered into an agreement giving the law firm the right to represent API in all matters that may arise due to the Michelle Obama interview and the release of the tapes in the US.

LOL. Now you are using Phil Berg, the guy who believes 9-11 was an inside job, to corrobrate the story. Do you have any idea how ridiculous you sound?

API has realised that the interview with Mrs Obama is of great significance in the coming elections. The release of the tapes is not intended to derail the elections or to destroy the chances that Mr Obama may have in getting elected the first black president of the United States.

Put up or shut up. If the tapes exist, then produce them. If you don't produce them, then the only thing any reasonable person can conclude is that they don't exist.

1,194 posted on 04/19/2010 11:15:00 AM PDT by curiosity
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To: curiosity

I don’t believe he is a naturalized citizen. Personally I belive he is an illegal alien.
I do not believe that there is a document to be found.
That is why he is sealing everything.
I stated that AT THE VERY BEST... which presumes
that he came back to the US and reapplied for citizenship
denounced his Indonesian citizenship
denounced his British citizenship
None of which I think he did.
I think he got his education with student visas from Indonesia and travelled under an Indonesian passport
Illegally changed his name from Barry Soetoro to Barak Obama
I don’t care if you believe me, it is my own investigation and satisfies only me. Don’t like it? Tough.


1,195 posted on 04/19/2010 11:19:15 AM PDT by etraveler13
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To: curiosity

Standing is an arbitrary tactic used by judges. It is a techincality to avoid discovery, or hearing a case.
http://lawprofessors.typepad.com/conlaw/standing/


1,196 posted on 04/19/2010 11:24:07 AM PDT by etraveler13
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To: curiosity

You seem to have the misinformed belief that I give a flip what you believe. It is in the court system now. Berg is pursueing it at his speed not yours, and I pretty much guarantee that he does not give a cr!p about what you might or might not think.
Circumstantially, it makes sense to believe that Berg has heard the recording, and as such has proceeded with it. The fact that you have not heard it, means nothing.
Finally, I am not asking you to believe or judge anything. I am just passing along informtion.
Feel free to find definitive proof that this was never said, like a statement by Michelle Obama, reported by API.


1,197 posted on 04/19/2010 11:28:50 AM PDT by etraveler13
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To: curiosity
LOL. Have you ever heard of cropping? I can see you haven't scanned many documents in your day.

Ummm, no. The document in the scan doesn't go all the way to the edge of the jpg, which is what would happen if it was cropped. Cropping doesn't add white space around a document. What you see in Obama's scan is the full document PLUS white space surrounding the edge of the document. The white part is the bottom of the scan lid. Somehow, the paper grew between the scan and the document that was photographed by factlack dot org. One or both documents is fraudulent.

1,198 posted on 04/19/2010 11:47:30 AM PDT by edge919
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To: edge919
The document in the scan doesn't go all the way to the edge of the jpg, which is what would happen if it was cropped.

Uhh..yes it can. Scanners can be set to add a white border. On some scanners that is the default setting.

What you see in Obama's scan is the full document

You have absolutely no way of knowing that.

1,199 posted on 04/19/2010 12:54:00 PM PDT by curiosity
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To: etraveler13
Standing is an arbitrary tactic used by judges.

LOL. No it's not. Standing is simply the requirement that a plaintiff be able to show direct, tangible harm arising from the actions of the defendant.

It is an essential part of our legal system. Without it, there would be no limit on whom one could sue and for what.

1,200 posted on 04/19/2010 12:57:01 PM PDT by curiosity
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