Open Carry Advocates: Shooting Themselves in the Foot

Pajamas MEdia ^ | April 29 | Bob Owens

[usurper]

And any cop shop that would make a patrolman conceal must be in some Worker’s Paradise.

I know literally hundreds of LEOs across the country and I have never met one who would open carry off duty unless they were out in the woods hunting or something.

Its because you are vulnerable when armed and can make yourself a target. The biggest risk it that someone will disarm you and its not hard to do if you know how. Hundreds of highly skilled LEOs over the years have been killed with their own weapons. Most “non” duty carry holsters lack any security features which makes weapons retention a real problem in a scrap.

[RedMonqey]

Some years earlier I was talked to by a police officer on foot patrol in our little business district...

When I was twelve, I took my grandfather's .22(with permisssion, of course) to the ponds on the family farm to shoot turtles. One pond was besides a road and having enough sense to know a bullet could skip like a rock I positioned myself on the side of the road shooting down at the pond(also gave a better view of the turtles)I pretended I was shooting German subs.

After using the last of my rounds, I slung the rifle and headed home. I was startled to see a deputy sheriff in a patrol car watching me. He motioned me towards him. Not knowing if I had broken some law or rule, I was petrified. He leaned over and said:

"Be more patient." "Wait till they climb back on the log" .

And drove off.

I doubt I would get the same response today.

[RedMonqey]

.Which is why we aim to gain some of that back.

I hope we can. But you have to put yourself in a "Soccer's Mom" position. You and I know arms, but to her they are "dangerous things" that would hurt her child. And seeing men who she does not know, carrying "scary things" will not win her vote.

Even I blanched at guy carrying Ar-15s in public, knowing how the media would protray it.

We are in a political battle and images are the weapons of the war.

[Secret Agent Man]

I wasn’t worried you didn’t get what I meant, in the past when I’ve made the point this way I get a ton of people screaming “SO YOU THINK ALL CONCEALED CARRY PEOPLE ARE THUGS, EH?” I really just hate knee-jerk reactions from anyone, conservative or liberal, simply because they see a hot button word and don’t actually read what’s been written.

[Dan Nunn]

But you have to put yourself in a "Soccer's Mom" position.

RIP Melanie Hain. Fought for her right to openly carry at her childrens' soccer games.

All it takes is awareness that you don't have to be a "gun nut" or an attention whore to carry. When everyday people open carry like Melanie did, we will win the PR battle.

[RedMonqey]

Truly the rantings of a madman.

Not necessarily.

Home invasions and burglaries are more numerous in countries, states where gun ownership is illegal. Meaning the criminal "assumes his intended victim is unarmed.

I will defend your choice of either. But my opinion would be conceal carry.

If the thug "gets the drop on you" what good will the exposed gun do. Better to be aware of your surrounding all the time and then "get the drop " on him.

Surprise is always a great advantage.

Do not think your "scary gun" will spook all criminal.

Some may have a better gun than you and a better shot.

[RedMonqey]

A hardened criminal is not deterred by the law, the cops, the threat of jail or death, or the sight of a gun.

Well spoken,Spok

[Dan Nunn]

Do not think your "scary gun" will spook all criminal.

Some may have a better gun than you and a better shot.

Of course not all. If a criminal is intent on going down that day, he may look at you as a target. Fact of the matter is, that rarely, if ever, happens. Most of the time, the criminal is out for easy prey, commit his crime, and be done with it.

Home invasions aren't really a discussion of "open carry" because it is impossible to do so if the criminal doesn't confront the homeowner. The closest thing to it would be a criminal robbing a home with NRA stickers all over it. And most criminals would pass right by that house.

[usurper]

Both of your points have been rebuked ad nauseum on the thread.

I agree with the ad nauseum part but my points certainly haven’t been rebuked at least not to my satisfaction.

Number one, criminals nearly always conceal carry.

Yes they do so for its advantages, why would you want to give them a further advantage by giving up your element of surprise?

What criminal decides to enter INTO a gun fight?

Lets see…how may murders are there daily? Most are punk on punk and most of the punks have guns. I would say when the crips target the bloods they have a reasonable expectation that the bloods are armed so I would conclude that the deterrent effect is somewhat negligible.

Most, if not all, will consider another target upon learning that their initial target is not an easy prey.

Definitely most would, but its also possible that someone might see that shinny gun on your hip and decide they would like to have it. Since they conceal carry and you don’t they will have the advantage and you are starting in second place. If you are lucky they will just take your gun, if you are unlucky they will shoot you and then take your gun.

[RedMonqey]

Here's you answer. See defintion two:

2 : to exhibit in an ostentatious or aggressive mannerMain

Entry: ostentatious os·ten·ta·tious Pronunciation: \-shəs\ Function: adjective Date: 1673 : marked by or fond of conspicuous or vainglorious and sometimes pretentious display

synonyms see showy
— os·ten·ta·tious·ly adverb — os·ten·ta·tious·ness noun

Their “brandishing” of weapons was ostentatious

[RedMonqey]

Number one, criminals nearly always conceal carry.

Ask yourself "WHY'?(besides illegal)

Surprise. Tactical advantage.

[RedMonqey]

"See also: Open carry deters armed robbery in Kennesaw (GA)."

Kennesaw also has the law saying every household must have a self defense firearm.

[Sherman Logan]

The backlash hasn’t developed yet, as I believe most people became aware of the open-carry movement just in the last few months. It may not develop. I certainly hope not.

[RedMonqey]

Miss Melanie Hain's not your typical soccer mom and not a average mom either(gun wise)

My points are:

This is a political struggle with heart s and minds and displays of open carry of semi auto rifles at political rallies is a misstep for gun rights in general. And open carry just lets the criminal element target you before you are aware you are their target.

But if you want to open carry, more power to you.

[RedMonqey]

Open Carry supporters may make themselves feel good openly carrying their weapons, but their actions simply scare the undecided and drive them into the other camp.

BINGO

[RedMonqey]

Home invasions aren't really a discussion of "open carry"

My point was because the criminal element couldn't pick an easy(unarmed)household (or citizen), he would have to be more selective(hence deterrence or at least time consuming)causing all home more protection if he thought one or more of the households had gun-owners.

It's the difference between playing Russian roulette with a a bullet(s) in the chamber or knowing that it is empty.

Thus conceal carry would help all and not just one.

[ExGeeEye]

I prefer concealed carry as a concept. YMMV.

Open-carry advocates are my allies, not my enemies.

[BB62]

Riiight.

I can find secondary and tertiary meanings to fit my biases too.

[OneWingedShark]

I quite disagree; observe that the Federal Constitution’s Second Amendment guarantees the right to keep and bear arms. Open or concealed is not mentioned, however the powers not delegated to the Federal government are to go to the states or remain with the people.

Now, the states CAN prohibit concealed carry or open carry, but NOT both because when they joined the Union they agreed to adopt the Constitution and the second amendment is written in the passive voice, which gives it far more power. {The subject being “the right to keep and bear arms” and the infringement thereof being denied in general.}

If states disallow [or regulate] concealed-carry, then they MUST [by the previous argument] allow free, open carry.

[OneWingedShark]

>I don’t understand the idea behind brandishing firearms in public.

brandish
–verb (used with object)
1. — to shake or wave, as a weapon; flourish: Brandishing his sword, he rode into battle.
–noun
2. — a flourish or waving, as of a weapon.

I absolutely HATE the fools who think that ‘displaying’ or ‘imprinting’ qualify as brandishing. [/rant]