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Laura Bush Supports Gay Marriage, Abortion
abcnews.com ^ | May 12, 2010 | RUSSELL GOLDMAN

Posted on 05/12/2010 6:47:05 PM PDT by Free ThinkerNY

Former first lady Laura Bush has broken with her husband on the premier social issues of his administration and said she backs gay marriage and abortion.

After more than eight years of silence on the controversial issues, Mrs. Bush said in an interview with CNN's Larry KingTuesday, that gay marriage and abortion were points of contention with her husband, former President George W. Bush.

Mrs. Bush in recent weeks has been promoting her memoir "Spoken from the Heart," in which she writes about her life both before and after becoming first lady.

In response to a question about gay marriage, she said, "There are a lot of people who have trouble coming to terms with that because they see marriage as traditionally between a man and a woman. But I also know that, you know, when couples are committed to each other and love each other, that they ought to have, I think, the same sort of rights that everyone has."

Mrs. Bush said she and the ex-president "disagree" on legalizing same-sex marriage.

(Excerpt) Read more at abcnews.go.com ...


TOPICS: Breaking News; Culture/Society; News/Current Events
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To: my_pointy_head_is_sharp
What in heavens name are you talking about? I haven't 'attacked' you at all! Defend yourself against what?? Civil disagreement?? LOL!

Defend your POSITION. And stop whining and making goofy attacks that make no sense.

501 posted on 05/13/2010 12:55:12 PM PDT by ohioWfan (Proud Mom of a Bronze Star recipient!)
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To: ohioWfan; Jim Robinson; sickoflibs; mkjessup; stephenjohnbanker
I don't think it's wise for a person who has been called an "idiot troll" by the owner of the forum

Please ping people when you talk about them.

502 posted on 05/13/2010 12:56:41 PM PDT by rabscuttle385 (Live Free or Die)
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To: sickoflibs
I just love the part about Laura explaining the ‘birds and bees’ to her teenage daughters

Well at least she did her part as a mother.

I don't know if we can say the same about one Sarah Palin.

503 posted on 05/13/2010 12:59:29 PM PDT by rabscuttle385 (Live Free or Die)
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To: rabscuttle385

:)


504 posted on 05/13/2010 1:01:53 PM PDT by sickoflibs ( "It's not the taxes, the redistribution is the federal spending=tax delayed")
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To: rabscuttle385; sickoflibs; Jim Robinson
I didn't want to waste JimRob's time, but so you feel better, HERE

Please put that in your "truth file" and keep your personal animosity against me at Loser Post where it belongs (with all the banned freepers).

I won't reply again.

505 posted on 05/13/2010 1:06:15 PM PDT by ohioWfan (Proud Mom of a Bronze Star recipient!)
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To: rabscuttle385; ohioWfan; Jim Robinson; sickoflibs; stephenjohnbanker; All
Free Image Hosting at www.ImageShack.us
506 posted on 05/13/2010 1:13:30 PM PDT by mkjessup
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To: sickoflibs

LOL!!


507 posted on 05/13/2010 1:13:49 PM PDT by stephenjohnbanker (Support our troops....and vote out the RINOS!)
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To: mkjessup; rabscuttle385
RE :"Can't we all get along?"

I am not arguing with anyone, not even you two meanies :)

508 posted on 05/13/2010 1:15:23 PM PDT by sickoflibs ( "It's not the taxes, the redistribution is the federal spending=tax delayed")
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To: my_pointy_head_is_sharp; ohioWfan
ohioWfan is nothing but one of the kindest posters you'll ever encounter and your attacks on her show what a pathetic coward and punk you are.

I'm the bitch. I'm the one calling you what you are. Pull your skirts up and run whimpering from my rudeness, not hers.

Let me repeat...your tag line is a disgusting lie and you are a filth-fed LIAR! Your mewlings have become tiresome.

509 posted on 05/13/2010 1:17:12 PM PDT by Deb (Beat him, strip him and bring him to my tent!)
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To: ohioWfan
Juvenile game you're playing. Attack relentlessly, then claim to be totally innocent. I don't have any position to defend. Laura Bush is pro-abortion and pro-gay marriage. It's not MY position to defend Laura Bush's position. Deb acts as if Laura Bush didn't even say it, then calls ME dishonest for stating Laura Bush's position.

By the way, show me exactly where I'm a pitbull.

510 posted on 05/13/2010 1:18:52 PM PDT by my_pointy_head_is_sharp (Laura Bush is FOR the butchering of babies in the womb. She is pro-abortion.)
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To: Deb

How am I a liar??? Laura Bush is pro-abortion and pro-gay marriage. (I have just amended my tagline to reflect that.) And this is a pro-life site.


511 posted on 05/13/2010 1:21:45 PM PDT by my_pointy_head_is_sharp (FACT: Laura Bush is pro-abortion and pro-gay marriage.)
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To: Free ThinkerNY
they ought to have, I think, the same sort of rights that everyone has.

Every American, gay or straight, has exactly the same right as any other American does.... to marry a person of the opposite sex.

512 posted on 05/13/2010 1:23:55 PM PDT by Constitutionalist Conservative (Two blogs for the price of none!)
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To: Deb

You are really sick. I can honestly say that, after all of the attacks against me. You just don’t want to believe that Laura Bush is pro-abortion or pro-gay marriage. You accuse me of being dishonest.


513 posted on 05/13/2010 1:24:26 PM PDT by my_pointy_head_is_sharp (FACT: Laura Bush is pro-abortion and pro-gay marriage.)
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To: my_pointy_head_is_sharp; Deb
I see that you're upset with Deb.

Perhaps you should try to sort out your emotions, and then get back to me regarding the things I have actually said.

Thanks.

My only point to you was that Laura doesn't represent the Republican party. That is all.

514 posted on 05/13/2010 1:25:26 PM PDT by ohioWfan (Proud Mom of a Bronze Star recipient!)
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To: ohioWfan

You can’t show me where I’ve been a pitbull? Didn’t think so, since I haven’t been. You two are really something.


515 posted on 05/13/2010 1:27:21 PM PDT by my_pointy_head_is_sharp (FACT: Laura Bush is pro-abortion and pro-gay marriage.)
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To: my_pointy_head_is_sharp
You are the rudest posters I have ever encountered. And, yes, you must be living in an alternate universe if you can't see that.

Perhaps "pitbull" was a tad too strong.

You called me one of the "rudest posters" you've ever encountered when I wasn't the least bit rude to you. You accused me of living in an "alternative universe" if I didn't see what didn't in reality, exist.

Let's leave it at this....you are wrong. Sort out your entwined emotions.

516 posted on 05/13/2010 1:28:34 PM PDT by ohioWfan (Proud Mom of a Bronze Star recipient!)
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To: Deb

By the way, it’s all over the internet, not just at abc news. I checked. They are all reporting that Laura Bush is pro-abortion and pro-gay marriage.


517 posted on 05/13/2010 1:28:45 PM PDT by my_pointy_head_is_sharp (FACT: Laura Bush is pro-abortion and pro-gay marriage.)
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To: porter_knorr

Forgive me but I believe what you perceive as rudeness may just be passion and complete and utter disappointment. My view of abortion comes from friends and family members who had abortions and how their tragic stories affected me. Bad choices have serious consequences for women who have had abortions for years. Of the ones I know the men were the reasons why those women got abortions, they insisted. And NONE of them had good role models for mothers and had bad relationships with their mothers. If Mrs. Bush truly believes in support of things as abortion and gay marriage for me as another woman it takes away from what she tried to represent herself as first lady. She speaks of abortion as that protecting a woman’s life, using that excuse is so completely BS. Of the five women I spoke to it had nothing to do with health!! In fact two of them got pregnant again because of depression after having their first abortions only to have another abortion. You see they were still with the same men who wanted them to get the first abortions to begin with but these women, girls I should say and so they again got abortions. Having a prominent woman such as Mrs. Bush who is suppose to be a conservative, which of course we know now is not, to come out like this promoting her book and her support for such issues as abortion and gay marriage shows where her true loyalty was all along. With this Obama administration now one of the most prochoice supporters and Mrs. Bush comes out now with this? My respect is not given easily because it is so meaningful to me and I feel like it was just a slap to conservatives, maybe because she did have to keep her mouth shut for so long. But everybody knows how contentious the political games are now with the elections coming up in Nov. and now she speaks up? It is because of my experiences and being a woman that this just seriously angers me. Of the 50
million abortions how many were to protect the health of the woman Mrs. Bush?


518 posted on 05/13/2010 1:29:53 PM PDT by red irish (Gods Children in the womb are to be loved too!)
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To: my_pointy_head_is_sharp; Deb
I just did.

I'm sorry I stepped on your feelings. TRUST me. I won't do it again.

And Deb and I are two completely different people, functioning entirely independently. Please try to get that figured out.

519 posted on 05/13/2010 1:30:14 PM PDT by ohioWfan (Proud Mom of a Bronze Star recipient!)
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To: ohioWfan
No, YOU said you were living in an alternate universe.

Your words: "Wow. This must be an alternate universe. I thought it was the place for conversation and give and take comments."

Apparently, your idea of give & take is to insult someone, then claim the insult is give & take. Then play innocent.

520 posted on 05/13/2010 1:31:34 PM PDT by my_pointy_head_is_sharp (FACT: Laura Bush is pro-abortion and pro-gay marriage.)
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To: ohioWfan
You had from 10:48 to 11:34 to review my comments to you, and make this offering.

To: DoughtyOne

It’s over right now. You may have the last word.

469 posted on Thursday, May 13, 2010 11:34:35 AM by ohioWfan (Proud Mom of a Bronze Star recipient!)



To: ohioWfan

Well I said it would be over when the spin stopped, and now it is.

Later.

475 posted on Thursday, May 13, 2010 12:02:28 PM by DoughtyOne (Excusaholic: MeCain lost to Jr., RINO endorsements are flying, & you live at 2012 Denial Blvd.)



I had taken you at your word, and this is what I got for it. Switcheroo? Honestly, you've got to be kidding...

To: DoughtyOne

Sorry, but I just noticed your switcheroo here, and need to point it out before I go....

THIS is your first accusation.....

Didn't you state she hadn't been wrong on abortion?

That I agreed with Laura on abortion, which I, of course, don't, and everyone clearly knows that.

Then you morphed your accusation into THIS....

I would suggest you stick to the reality that Laura did make a mistake, and quit trying to dictate how people react to that mistake.

Leaving behind your accusation that I was not pro-life and turning it into a completely different accusation that I won't admit that "Laura did make a mistake."......whatever that means

So therefore, there is no possible way to continue the conversation because you keep changing and confusing it. Anything I say to refute your argument, can and most likely will be turned into something totally different in your next post.

Conclusion......I am completely and utterly pro-life, and praying that Laura will be too, especially since she loves and respects her pro-life husband so deeply.

See you around, DoughtyOne.

477 posted on Thursday, May 13, 2010 12:02:51 PM by ohioWfan (Proud Mom of a Bronze Star recipient!)


...and this.  Just wierd.

To: DoughtyOne

Your spin is clearly pointed out in my last post.480 posted on Thursday, May 13, 2010 12:03:42 PM by ohioWfan (Proud Mom of a Bronze Star recipient!)




And to think, I suggested you don't even stick to your own story line.  Whatever could have caused me to do that?  Oh yes, this would be it...

And now there's the above to add to it.


This about what I am saying here.


To: ohioWfan

In a marvelous, insightful, 432 page book, Laura devotes exactly ONE LINE to her belief that "no one can walk in anyone else's shoes." She devotes page after page on their struggle to have children and her firm belief that no matter what was wrong with her babies, she would give birth to them and love them. As a matter of fact, the only comment on abortion came as a critique of Katie Couric and the media trap. Larry King pressed her on the issue in his interview, and she didn't lie. It's not as if, as some are implying, or stating outright, she deceitfully waited until her husband was out of office to preach pro-abortion views.

(Some of the comments on this thread are ludicrous).

Please explain to me what you meant by this series of comments, other than to say that folks had been unfair to Laura on this issue.

It has been my perception that folks were upset that Laura had come out to support personal choice. And in response you said 'some comments on this thread were ludicrous'.

Why would they be ludicrous, if you are as dismayed with Laura's comment as you intimate you are?

I'm not particularly trying to give you a hard time, but there does seem to be a conflict here.

459 posted on Thursday, May 13, 2010 10:48:21 AM by DoughtyOne (Excusaholic: MeCain lost to Jr., RINO endorsements are flying, & you live at 2012 Denial Blvd.)



OhioWFan, I know you're not going to understand this, but it's tough to take you serious.  You say one thing, then do another.  That reality is as core to this discussion as anything else.

"You can have the last comment."  Oh wait, no you can't.

"I disagree with Laura... I sure do..."  I'm just going to spend my time here insulting folks who can't support her due to this and other issues they have with her.

I don't support people who express the view that the issue of Choice is simply an individual matter.  That is the core Lefitst argument.  You can't pass it off as a small mistake that may one day correct itself if you pray long and hard about it.  If you could, then you could pass off anything a Leftist does on the same merits.  Either you can support someone who supports Choice, or you can't.  And you have made it abundantly clear you not only can, but you are.

You are defending Laura against those who took offense to her comments.  They may not have made politically correct objections, but then since when are we required to be politically correct here when someone says aborting the defenseless unborn is simply a matter of individual whim?  Please name one Leftist you have been defending on the "I'll pray for them, and some day they may change" grounds.  My take on it is that you haven't supported one Leftist in this manner.  And that is somewhat of a compliment to you.  What isn't, is your upside down compus concernig equal disdain for identical views.

If it's wrong when a Leftist does it, then it's wrong when someone we like does it.  And if it's okay to get visceral with a Leftist on this very policy, then it's okay to get visceral with people we like, when they do the same thing.

Your criticisms of people you would agree with, if they said the same things about a Leftist that held this opinion, are simply inexcusable.

You should be able to understand that.

521 posted on 05/13/2010 1:32:49 PM PDT by DoughtyOne (Excusaholic: MeCain lost to Jr., RINO endorsements are flying, & you live at 2012 Denial Blvd.)
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To: my_pointy_head_is_sharp
Oy.

Have a nice evening, pointy.

We have a tornado watch here, so I'm going to be watching for storms..........the real kind, not the made up kind.

522 posted on 05/13/2010 1:32:51 PM PDT by ohioWfan (Proud Mom of a Bronze Star recipient!)
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To: DoughtyOne

That was a really long last word. Good job.


523 posted on 05/13/2010 1:33:39 PM PDT by ohioWfan (Proud Mom of a Bronze Star recipient!)
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To: my_pointy_head_is_sharp
(this is fun) Look, troll, saying Laura Bush is for the butchering of babies may be what passes for truth in your sad, little family. In mine, its a lie and you remain a puke-filled liar.

I appreciate the fact that you're such a fragile, limp soul that you insist on celebrating your persecution complex rather than getting help for what is obviously a sexual inadequacy problem, but really, your fake dismay and outrage at ohioWfan is HUGELY comical.

We know you're a troll and I'm happy to play as long you want.

524 posted on 05/13/2010 1:35:37 PM PDT by Deb (Beat him, strip him and bring him to my tent!)
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To: Deb; ohioWfan
You are saying that Laura Bush does not support Roe v Wade, Doe v Bolton, etc.?

On the day of George W. Bush's first inauguration, the first lady sat down with CBS' Katie Couric who "asked two questions about abortion, and then she asked me if I was for the overturn of Roe versus Wade... This was the very morning my husband was about to be inaugurated. And I thought, do I really want to start my husband's presidency, you know, suggesting that a Supreme Court rule being overturned? And I said 'no.'" Laura Bush said abortion should "remain legal, because I think it's important for people, for medical reasons and other reasons."

I have not read the book. Does it say she is pro life?

525 posted on 05/13/2010 1:36:40 PM PDT by ding_dong_daddy_from_dumas (Pat Caddell: Democrats are drinking kool-aid in a political Jonestown)
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To: ohioWfan

We live in Ky and my husband just came in and told me we are under the same tornado watch! Stay safe God bless


526 posted on 05/13/2010 1:38:17 PM PDT by red irish (Gods Children in the womb are to be loved too!)
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To: Free ThinkerNY

Pray for her salvation as she very well most likely is not saved.


527 posted on 05/13/2010 1:38:58 PM PDT by Bellflower (If you are left DO NOT take the mark of the beast and be damned forever.)
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To: Deb
Look, troll, saying Laura Bush is for the butchering of babies may be what passes for truth in your sad, little family.

Hate to tell you, but that's what abortion is. It's the butchering of babies. And that's what IS the truth.

528 posted on 05/13/2010 1:39:00 PM PDT by my_pointy_head_is_sharp (FACT: Laura Bush is pro-abortion and pro-gay marriage.)
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To: sickoflibs

“Prey for President Bush” threads.

That wasn’t an inclusion of the wrong word. ;-)

And that’s what these turn into.


529 posted on 05/13/2010 1:39:44 PM PDT by DoughtyOne (Excusaholic: MeCain lost to Jr., RINO endorsements are flying, & you live at 2012 Denial Blvd.)
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To: ding_dong_daddy_from_dumas
The only comments she makes in the book on abortion are on pp. 302-3, and her only statement giving her own opinion is this....

While cherishing life, I have always believed that abortion is a private decision, and there, no one can walk in anyone else's shoes.

I completely disagree with this comment, but for the record, that's all she said.

530 posted on 05/13/2010 1:40:55 PM PDT by ohioWfan (Proud Mom of a Bronze Star recipient!)
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To: red irish
You stay safe too!

You guys have really taken it on the chin down there.

(We have close family in Nashville, and they got nailed......not their homes, but frighteningly close!)

531 posted on 05/13/2010 1:42:23 PM PDT by ohioWfan (Proud Mom of a Bronze Star recipient!)
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To: DoughtyOne

You’ve gotten really wordy, but I still love you.


532 posted on 05/13/2010 1:43:30 PM PDT by Deb (Beat him, strip him and bring him to my tent!)
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To: ohioWfan

Thanks, I agree. I think she is terribly misguided about abortion, but I do not dislike her personally.


533 posted on 05/13/2010 1:44:09 PM PDT by ding_dong_daddy_from_dumas (Pat Caddell: Democrats are drinking kool-aid in a political Jonestown)
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To: ohioWfan

OhioWFan, despite having it explained to you in no uncertain terms, you can’t dictate to others what their offerings to you are going to look like.

And once again, you’re responding to me when you stated you would let it drop three posts ago.


534 posted on 05/13/2010 1:44:28 PM PDT by DoughtyOne (Excusaholic: MeCain lost to Jr., RINO endorsements are flying, & you live at 2012 Denial Blvd.)
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To: sickoflibs; stephenjohnbanker; Theodore R.; mkjessup; rabscuttle385

You know she was a bad influence on him. The only reason she ever left the democrats was because she married a Bush.

I understand some people are nostalgic when they look at Michelle “Arms” Obama but Laura is a lib too.


535 posted on 05/13/2010 1:45:05 PM PDT by Impy (RED=COMMUNIST, NOT REPUBLICAN | NO "INDIVIDUAL MANDATE"!!!!!!!)
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To: Free ThinkerNY

a friend of mine, a very liberal friend, posted this to her facebook and was so pleased to hear that one Bush was more tolerant than the other Bush. This same person, finds the Arizona enforcement of the Federal law unfathomable. Wait, you want abortion to be legal cause it’s already the law of the land and it’s a womans right. You want gay marriage legalized even tho it is not the law of the land in most states. And you want the Arizona law abolished, even though it is an enforcment of long standing federal law. They want it both ways all the time.


536 posted on 05/13/2010 1:46:06 PM PDT by sappy
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To: ding_dong_daddy_from_dumas

Here’s what she does NOT say, “I’m for the butchering of babies.” Got it?


537 posted on 05/13/2010 1:46:17 PM PDT by Deb (Beat him, strip him and bring him to my tent!)
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To: Deb

And Deb, I’ll have to admit to falling in like with you years ago. ;-)

Take care. I’ll try to develop a 10% less fat posting strategy although sometimes the lengthy post is the most revealing post when matters are cloudy.


538 posted on 05/13/2010 1:46:50 PM PDT by DoughtyOne (Excusaholic: MeCain lost to Jr., RINO endorsements are flying, & you live at 2012 Denial Blvd.)
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To: ding_dong_daddy_from_dumas

RE :”I have not read the book. Does it say she is pro life?”

On the Larry King live interview (on youtube) hawking this book she said :
1) she believes abortion must be legal,
2) She is for legalized gay same-sex marriage,
3) That in her book she stated she didnt want Roe overturned. I can find the youtube link, as I posted it here twice already.


539 posted on 05/13/2010 1:47:30 PM PDT by sickoflibs ( "It's not the taxes, the redistribution is the federal spending=tax delayed")
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To: cajungirl
I am not surprised at all and not shocked. Most women I know while disapproving of abortion wouldn’t interfere with another womans decision.

Most women do not support the killing of an innocent baby in the womb. The number is even smaller when you get to late-term abortion (aka murder). Get some new friends.

540 posted on 05/13/2010 1:48:16 PM PDT by vox_freedom (America is being tested as never before in its history. May God help us.)
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To: ding_dong_daddy_from_dumas
I really recommend reading her book. You find out a lot about Texas and how rough it is in West Texas. You see a great love of America, and get some insight into how incredible the American people are.

It gives a lot of info about things the media tried to keep from us for eight years.

You won't agree with everything (of course!), but she really is a-political, and it's a great read. Very well written.

I have hope that she'll grow on this issue. Lots of people have.

541 posted on 05/13/2010 1:48:16 PM PDT by ohioWfan (Proud Mom of a Bronze Star recipient!)
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To: Impy
RE :”I understand some people are nostalgic when they look at Michelle “Arms” Obama but Laura is a lib too.

So you didn't buy her book either ? :)

542 posted on 05/13/2010 1:49:29 PM PDT by sickoflibs ( "It's not the taxes, the redistribution is the federal spending=tax delayed")
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To: ohioWfan
You won't agree with everything (of course!), but she really is a-political....

Being pro-abortion and pro-homosexual marriage is political. Shame on Laura Bush. Christian beliefs can clearly tell her what to believe and on these two issues she is wrong.

543 posted on 05/13/2010 1:50:40 PM PDT by vox_freedom (America is being tested as never before in its history. May God help us.)
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To: vox_freedom
Laura is a-political, and wrong on these two issues, one of which she doesn't even voice an opinion on in her book.

She does talk about how awful it was of John Kerry and John Edwards to use Mary Cheney in the debates however.

I completely agree with her on that.

544 posted on 05/13/2010 1:53:53 PM PDT by ohioWfan (Proud Mom of a Bronze Star recipient!)
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To: sickoflibs

That’s on my to do list. In between watching every episode of “Queer Eye for the Straight Guy” and visiting Siberia in December.


545 posted on 05/13/2010 1:55:48 PM PDT by Impy (RED=COMMUNIST, NOT REPUBLICAN | NO "INDIVIDUAL MANDATE"!!!!!!!)
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To: my_pointy_head_is_sharp
Speaking as a lying troll, that's what I'd expect you to say, but if she had been yanking unborn babies out of the wombs of hysterical, young mothers and chopping them up on the White House coffee table...that didn't seem to affect the most pro-Life president in the history of the country.

And if she had personally performed the marriage ceremony of Meagan Fox to Angelina Jolie....that didn't seem to affect her husband's signing of the Defense of Marriage Act to keep marriage between a man and a woman.

So, boo-hoo, tiny man you and your brother trolls can't trash Bush using his wife. Of course, you can always move to calling her a "murderer", like your twins at DU. Any lie is a good lie in defense of your Marxist delusion.

I hope I wasn't too harsh or rude. I know how easily bruised you are. That seems to be a problem with fakes pretending to be conservative...you're never manly enough to pull it off.

546 posted on 05/13/2010 2:01:44 PM PDT by Deb (Beat him, strip him and bring him to my tent!)
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To: Free ThinkerNY
I wonder what other leftist positions she holds?

Beyond the fact that Hillary Clinton is an outspoken proponent of certain social policies, while Laura Bush seems to be not as open, is there really any difference between two of them?

547 posted on 05/13/2010 2:21:42 PM PDT by grand wazoo
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To: Deb
Here’s what she does NOT say, “I’m for the butchering of babies.” Got it?

No, what is the difference in meaning?

548 posted on 05/13/2010 2:27:01 PM PDT by ding_dong_daddy_from_dumas (Pat Caddell: Democrats are drinking kool-aid in a political Jonestown)
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To: Deb
It is still legitimate to question the commitment of a person to a cause when that person chooses to marry someone holding ,and no doubt arguing for, contrary positions.

Knowing your wife believed in aborting your children if she decided they would be inconvenient seems a bit of a turn off.

Nor are Presidents immune to wives' and family pressures.

I have one more reason to believe Sarah Palin is a more decent, caring conservative than all the Bushes together.

549 posted on 05/13/2010 2:28:37 PM PDT by hoosierham (Waddaya mean Freedom isn't free ?;will you take a credit card?)
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To: hoosierham

So, who gives a crap what you “believe”? With reasoning like your its obvious you “believe” all sorts of flap-doodle.


550 posted on 05/13/2010 2:30:35 PM PDT by Deb (Beat him, strip him and bring him to my tent!)
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