850 Orthodox Rabbis Against Obama's Supreme Court Choice

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/judaica/ejud_0002_0017_0_16260.html

...Since 1972 Rabbi Abraham B. Hecht has served as president of the RAA, although prior to the assassination of Yitzhak Rabin, Hecht called for the death of any Jewish leader who would concede portions of the land of Israel for peace. Later he expressed remorse for his comments.

Who cares? If every Jewish voter in America voted for McCain, Obama would still be president.

Sure the "result" would have been the same ... but to have the Jews now "worried" about Obama when the majority of them supported him is my "beef." They cannot be complaining about an outcome they "SUPPORTED" to have happened. So they shouldn't be complaining, they should be basking in the result they favored ... or be SCREAMING that they made a terrible mistake! Next time, maybe they will get out of their "rut" (the same one Blacks are in ... voting for Democrats because that's the "home team") ... then they will have a virtuous complaint ... but under the circumstances ... they SUPPORTED the hell we are going through now, I have NO empathy for any person or group who supported Obama. Time for them to "WAKE UP" and start THINKING instead of just singing "TRADITION!" and pulling the Dem lever.

I'm not being anti-Jewish here, I'm being against ANY group that was DUMB ENOUGH to support this abortion of an administration that is TAKING DOWN the USA ... and now they are "complaining"? They have not earned that right! You LOSE your "right" to complain if you support a candidate that is offensive to your way of life. And this wasn't a "secret" ... we all KNEW Obama's position on Israel ... that he was buddies with Hamas, Muslim background, etc. So this should have been a no-brainer, especially for the Jewish population that should be the MOST SENSITIVE group toward this attitude. I'm not Jewish, but high on my list of why NOT to vote for him was protecting Israel ... it is something I PERSONALLY believe we should be doing. And it was obvious that wouldn't happen if Obama was elected. I voted to protect Israel, but 70% of Jews didn't ... and now they complain? Hot air!

1. Not exactly a way to influence voters. You just wrote off 54% of the electorate, Jewish and non-Jewish alike.

Me, I think they are stupid, but welcome their change of heart.

2. Your position assume something that is incorrect. Many of the polls identify persons as Jewish who are not Jewish under Jewish law (e.g., Jewish mother, or valid conversion) or who have totally turned their backs on their religion.

This group has little or no loyalty to Israel. They are secular atheists. To expect them to care about Israel is silly.

3. I share the frustration, but EVERY thread about Israel is immediately infected with versions of “F Israel, the Jews don’t vote for us anyway.”

It’s grating to the conservatives Jewish people (and there are plenty of us on FR)to read this over-and-over , and I ask restraint.

Sure the "result" would have been the same ... but to have the Jews now "worried" about Obama when the majority of them supported him is my "beef."

PF, out of either ignorance or malice you are completely ignoring the points that have been made.

This particular group of rabbis and the people they represent are not liberal Democrats and never voted for Obama. It's one thing to rake Jewish liberals over the coals for their long sleep, but your attacks on this particular organization are completely uncalled-for.

Secondly, Israel has nothing whatsoever to do with the issues raised. As a Justice of the Supreme Court Kagan will have absolutely no say on American foreign policy. The problems with Kagan raised by this organization are her domestic radicalism, not Israel. Furthermore (although you don't see the type who will understand this), Charedim are not Zionists. Many of them are in fact hostile to the Israeli government which is after all secular and based on western democracy rather than on Halakhah. Rabbi Levin is not a Zionist. But they still give a very high priority to the safety of fellow Jews in 'Eretz Yisra'el.

I have explained this to you at least three times now. If you persist in ignoring these points I will dismiss you as a bigot with no interest in the issues at all.

Your position assume something that is incorrect. Many of the polls identify persons as Jewish who are not Jewish under Jewish law (e.g., Jewish mother, or valid conversion) or who have totally turned their backs on their religion.

I think we are "close" to being on the same page. I didn't know this above point, and I find it very interesting, thank you for pointing it out. But I think could tell from your response that you are as frustrated as I am on this. Where do we start to "change" minds? Education of some sort? I'm thinking most Americans have to get HIT IN THE HEAD VERY HARD to suddenly have a "thought." Maybe Obama is the 2 X 4 for the "experience."

Along a parallel track of thought, I have the same questions about the Black demographics too. It's too bad Obama is the "FIRST BLACK PRESIDENT" ..(not including Clinton). I think this will set them back for generations. I can hear it now ... "we tried a Black President, it didn't work." There are so many QUALIFIED (and "normal!") black politicians who could have done a terrific and historic job. But this impostor got in there as a black democrat when he is actually a radical, Muslim-orientated, ideologue. No one again will ever trust a black man for President ... and that is a potential loss in the future. It shouldn't be that Obama is "black" ... it should be about him being a radical socialist ... but alas, the news media has already cast the legacy in stone. And it is this that the (shallow-thinking) voters will remember in the future.

“Where do we start to “change” minds? Education of some sort?”

In order of importance:

1. Conservative Jewish people have to speak out and be visible. Show that it’s OK to be conservative. All people, including Jewish people, are heavily influenced by their peers.

2. Gentile Conservatives need to be welcoming. “Stupid Jew” threads and posts are probably not the best idea.

3. Openly discredit anti-semetic faux conservatives, like Pat Buchanon.

4. The Huckabee Theocrat wing of the Republican party is creepy to Jewish people. I get the distinct impression that, given the power, Huckabee would take my children away from me, so they could be “saved.” (No, not really, but he’s a theocrat and creepy.)

5. Emphasize fiscal conseratism and ending of discriminatory practices like Affirmative Action, as these screw Jewish people more than anyone else.

6. Support for Israel should be for zionist or western democracy reasons. Avoid theolocial disscussions. Clean message here, is my point -— the MSM tries to paint Christian conservatives as end-times whackos. I know it’s a lie, but just avoid the discussion.

I wrote: “Leftist Jews are alienated from Judaism before anything else.”

Ripley responded
A respectful question: If so, then how can they call themselves Jews? (Could they possibly be hiding behind Judaism?) Thanks for your further reply.

MAny don't call themselves Jews at all. They are lox loving leftists. Many do hide behind or use their Jewish roots. It also allows them to get in on the grievance politics game.

Grievance politics unites disparate minorities in unthinking opposition to the majority, even against rational self interest. The politics of grievance is an unthinking ersatz ethnic loyalty, wherein one defines oneself in opposition, rather than in being. It leads Jews to support political correctness, immigration of Muslims, and Third Worldism, even though these are all against their rational self interest as an Americans or as a Jews.

As a conservative New York Jew, I give this plenty of thought.

1. Conservative Jewish people have to speak out and be visible. Show that it’s OK to be conservative. All people, including Jewish people, are heavily influenced by their peers.

So, I think you are saying that there is peer pressure to be liberal. Actually that makes sense, I suppose it is the same for the black community ... everyone "needs to be a Democrat". And you've got some good points for breaking the peer pressure.

My question tho, in the voting booth, where there is no peer pressure, still the vote leans liberal. Do you think the peer pressure is great enough to invade the voting booth? You could always pull the other lever and tell people you didn't. But the actual numbers suggest otherwise.

I understand the black vote ... its a "team" thing, doesn't have a thing to do with liberals or conservatives ... "our man, our team" stuff. But I don't see the Democrats doing anything for the Jews through the years, maybe they have and I missed it. The Jews I've known are formidable Capitalists (which is a trait I not only respect, but admire), most Democrats tend toward Socialism ... So why does the loyalty lean Democrat? You would think they would vote for Capitalism (a strength) instead of Socialism, (their downfall as we are seeing). It's a subject I've tried to understand.

(PS Thank you for the forthright thought on the discussion, a learning moment for me anyway).

“It allows them to get in on the grievance politics game.”

What a great link to “grievance politics”.

Thank you for that one.

I often wonder if there is a sinister motive which drives grievance politics or a more mundane one that has at its root a desire for gain that has no regard for anything outside of those who practice it.

Whatever it is, a removal of the offenders from the levers of power, in November, wiould be a good start toward telling them to grow up voluntarily or be forced to bear the pain of personal growth without milk from the grievance teat.

IMHO

Thanks again.

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.