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Discovery of second pipe in Deepwater Horizon riser stirs debate among experts
The Times-Picayune ^ | July 9, 2010 | David Hammer

Posted on 07/12/2010 7:36:00 AM PDT by Natural Born 54

For the first time Friday, the Coast Guard and BP acknowledged that a mysterious second pipe, wedged next to the drill pipe in what remains of the Deepwater Horizon's riser, is fouling up the works where the well is spewing hundreds of millions of gallons of crude oil into the Gulf of Mexico.

(snip)

While Allen said he believes the second pipe fell from above, some experts have advanced another explanation. They believe poorly cemented casings -- tubes that are supposed to form solid walls down thousands of feet of the well bore -- may have been dislodged by the blast of natural gas that shot up out of the well and above the sea floor.

(snip)

The Coast Guard's acknowledgement of the two metal tubes Friday -- and a subsequent reference by BP to its plans to tie the two pipes together as the company installs a new oil collection system over the shaved-off riser -- actually comes more than a month after the Department of Energy noted the existence of two pipes using special imaging technology. At the time, BP dismissed the Energy findings as "impossible" because only one pipe in sections was used for drilling, a Tribune News Service story reported last month.

(Excerpt) Read more at nola.com ...


TOPICS: Front Page News; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: bp; oil; oilspill
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This article was used as the basis for another article that expanded on some of the information. The article is:

Coast Guard and BP admit ‘MYSTERIOUS second pipe’ stuck in BOP; Experts say indicates casing ‘dislodged’

This article ends with a paragraph containing this statement: "If the well casing has come up through the BOP, the relief wells are unlikely to work." At the bottom of the page is a CNBC video - one oil guy says the relief well is a sham and the other says the outlook isn't good for it to work and Obama needs another option.

1 posted on 07/12/2010 7:36:02 AM PDT by Natural Born 54
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To: Natural Born 54
At the time, BP dismissed the Energy findings as "impossible" because only one pipe in sections was used for drilling, a Tribune News Service story reported last month.

Video images of the riser when it was cut in early June clearly showed the two pipes,

Who ya gonna believe? BO or your own lyin' eyes?

2 posted on 07/12/2010 7:44:39 AM PDT by null and void (We are now in day 533 of our national holiday from reality. - 0bama really isn't one of US.)
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To: Natural Born 54
Related thread:

BP Says It MIGHT Stop The Leak Completely Today

3 posted on 07/12/2010 7:48:05 AM PDT by null and void (We are now in day 534 of our national holiday from reality. - 0bama really isn't one of US.)
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To: Natural Born 54

Hahahahahahaaaa...

We’re being buffaloed by these people and the administration...

When will the media, who have let these bast*rds off the hook, smarten up....?

We’re approaching 100days on this thing.

The plans they have put forth will NOT stop the leak, only capture more of the leaking oil....

The oil will leak from that site for months if not years....


4 posted on 07/12/2010 7:51:35 AM PDT by nikos1121 (Praying for minus 24 today....at least minus 23...)
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To: Natural Born 54

Not good. There has been a lot of knowledgeable talk about eroded and undermined strata due to the failed casing, which appears to be from the lower reaches of the well (ie: small diameter)which would render hopes of a relief well being effective to practically nil.

Problem is, who’s opinion can you trust? Must we sit back helplessly and watch this kabuki unfold? Liars to my right, liars to my left, stuck in the middle with you!


5 posted on 07/12/2010 7:52:22 AM PDT by pingman (Price is what you pay, value is what you get.)
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To: Natural Born 54

My engineering background is not oil but mechanical/manufacturing, but this whole deal can be summed up in just two words:

CHARLEY FOXTROT

How about running a few thousand lawyers and press agents out of the area and let the damn engineers who actually know something about the deal get to work?


6 posted on 07/12/2010 7:52:34 AM PDT by Unrepentant VN Vet (922 and a wakeup)
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To: nikos1121
We’re approaching 100days on this thing.

Pemex/Ixtoc leaked for nine months. Barely anyone remembers it today.

7 posted on 07/12/2010 7:59:06 AM PDT by agere_contra (Obama did more damage to the Gulf economy in one day than Pemex/Ixtoc did in nine months)
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To: Unrepentant VN Vet

How about stuffing them in the well until they plug it?


8 posted on 07/12/2010 8:00:22 AM PDT by null and void (We are now in day 534 of our national holiday from reality. - 0bama really isn't one of US.)
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To: Natural Born 54

Obama: “pipe? pipe? can I smoke something good with it?”


9 posted on 07/12/2010 8:02:13 AM PDT by Enchante ("The great enemy of clear language is insincerity." -- George Orwell --)
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To: Natural Born 54

Obama top recipient of BP contributions last 20 yrs

10 posted on 07/12/2010 8:04:46 AM PDT by dead (I've got my eye out for Mullah Omar.)
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To: Natural Born 54
...such experts as oil industry investment banker Matt Simmons and Bob Bea, a University of California at Berkeley engineer...

With "experts" such as these involved is it any wonder that things are screwed up?

11 posted on 07/12/2010 8:06:37 AM PDT by FreePaul
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To: null and void
Those two pipes were sticking up out of the top flange of the BOP after they removed the busted RISER pipe. (Yesterday evening.) They then lowered a large tool which cut them out.

So it wasn't just in the RISER TUBE that this occurred, but continues in through the BOP and down into the wellpipe.

12 posted on 07/12/2010 8:19:25 AM PDT by UCANSEE2 (The Last Boy Scout)
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To: Natural Born 54
The oil is coming to the surface on the back side of the 9-5/8 casing. This has been known from the beginning. The 9-5/8 casing is not open to the formation and thus the oil did flow around the backside to the surface where due to the tremendous pressure it was in all probability lifted into the BOP stack which caused the total failure of the BOP stack.

Relative to the kill operation this will make it more complex but it can be done. They will have to kill the outside flow around the casing. If the 9-5/8 is still intact down hole the well will then be dead. If it is not intact they will then need to do a second kill operation to stop the flow that would be coming into the 9-5/8.

The kill wells will be drilled into the oil pay zone. They will then breakdown the formation by pumping seawater down hole under many thousands of pounds of pressure. Once good communication is established they will follow with kill mud and then a huge cement job. This will have to be done once if the 9-5/8 is intact. Otherwise it will be done twice, once on the outside and once on the inside.

13 posted on 07/12/2010 8:24:05 AM PDT by cpdiii (Deckhand, Roughneck, Geologist, Pilot, Pharmacist, Iconoclast: THE CONSTITUTION IS WORTH DYING FOR.)
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To: pingman
Not good. There has been a lot of knowledgeable talk about eroded and undermined strata due to the failed casing, which appears to be from the lower reaches of the well (ie: small diameter)which would render hopes of a relief well being effective to practically nil.

Not really. See my post 54 on this thread.

14 posted on 07/12/2010 8:28:12 AM PDT by cpdiii (Deckhand, Roughneck, Geologist, Pilot, Pharmacist, Iconoclast: THE CONSTITUTION IS WORTH DYING FOR.)
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To: null and void

Heard a similar proposal back in The Day from a Gunny, but we both decided that even if shooting a few of them would cut casualties, raise morale and REALLY make us feel good, the paperwork and chickensh** afterward would be prohibitive.


15 posted on 07/12/2010 8:28:37 AM PDT by Unrepentant VN Vet (922 and a wakeup)
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To: cpdiii

Correction, SEE MY POST 13.


16 posted on 07/12/2010 8:29:49 AM PDT by cpdiii (Deckhand, Roughneck, Geologist, Pilot, Pharmacist, Iconoclast: THE CONSTITUTION IS WORTH DYING FOR.)
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To: null and void

What if that second pipe did come up from below - does that mean that the capping of the well may not stop oil leaking out into surrounding layers down deep and then up into the sea bed? Could they successfully cap it, it stops leaking from the well head but leaks where nobody is looking? Then there are the predictions of an explosion occurring if the well is capped because it increases the pressure down below.

I like the idea of using the BPers as plugs btw.


17 posted on 07/12/2010 8:31:48 AM PDT by Natural Born 54 (FUBO x 10)
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To: cpdiii

OK. NOW the reference makes sense!


18 posted on 07/12/2010 8:31:55 AM PDT by null and void (We are now in day 534 of our national holiday from reality. - 0bama really isn't one of US.)
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To: Natural Born 54

Daddy, did you plug the hole yet?


19 posted on 07/12/2010 8:34:52 AM PDT by null and void (We are now in day 534 of our national holiday from reality. - 0bama really isn't one of US.)
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To: null and void
Who knows what we are watching? It might just be a bunch of miniatures in an aquarium for all we know! ;-)
20 posted on 07/12/2010 8:37:54 AM PDT by almost done by half
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To: Natural Born 54

My BP stock is up 4 points since I bought it. Makes time number 4 that I could have been a multimillionaire of only I’d had the bucks to make the investment: Ford at $4 (now at $11), Bank of America at $7-8, GE at $11.


21 posted on 07/12/2010 8:44:49 AM PDT by domenad (In all things, in all ways, at all times, let honor guide me.)
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To: Natural Born 54

I wish they would just drill more wells and pump this thing dry.


22 posted on 07/12/2010 8:45:16 AM PDT by Styria
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To: pingman

You nailed it. I’ve tried hard to grasp this (as a civilian, non-engineer) entire disaster. So far I’ve learned: 1) the world is going to end any minute from a massive methane explosion. 2) this really isn’t a big deal- after all oil is natural so it’s ok, it will clean itself up. 3) Obama planned this and has hundreds of people in on the conspiracy. 4) No one knows what happened. No one knows if it can be fixed. 5) Bill Clinton wants to nuke it.

My heads spins and it’s just impossible to be sure what’s fact and what’s spin.


23 posted on 07/12/2010 8:52:42 AM PDT by SE Mom (Proud mom of an Iraq war combat vet)
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To: SE Mom
OK, just for grins and giggles here's my contribution. I defy any FReeper to come up with a worse worst case scenario...

I'm still holding out for OilBama to try to blast the BP leak shut with a nuke.

It is the worst possible solution, the one most damaging to America, and therefore the one The One is most apt to use.

With luck he can diddle daddle long enough to have to do it in a blind panic just before a major hurricane lances into America's soft white underbelly.

Such a nuke would:

• Replace an 18" dia pipe leaking oil with a quarter mile wide crater over bedrock shattered all the way down to the full oil deposit.
• Violate international nuclear weapon treaties.
• Flash abundant amounts of sea water into steam both by the bomb itself and the exposed hot crust/magma.
• Provide a thermal turbocharge boost to convert an ordinary hurricane into a continent crossing hypercane.
• Ignite vast quantities of methane and oil, generating massive quantities of CO2 and raining down fire over hundreds of square miles.
• Inundate America's breadbasket farmland with a deluge of radioactive, oily saltwater all the way up to the Canadian border.
•And who knows? It might even shake loose the New Madrid fault.
And as a special bonus he could then use the results to ban all oil drilling and eliminate America's entire nuclear arsenal.

From his viewpoint, what's not to love?

24 posted on 07/12/2010 9:13:06 AM PDT by null and void (We are now in day 534 of our national holiday from reality. - 0bama really isn't one of US.)
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To: null and void

All that’s left for him to decide is how big a nuke to use.

I have friends on the Gulf Coast -they (and everyone they know) are so furious at this president, this government and BP they can’t see straight. They weren’t mad at BP initially- they had the “accidents happen” view. Now however, 2 months afterwards and STILL no grownups in sight- they’ve had it with all of them.


25 posted on 07/12/2010 9:21:47 AM PDT by SE Mom (Proud mom of an Iraq war combat vet)
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To: SE Mom

Have you asked any of the 0bama voters in that lot how that hopey-changey thang is working out for them?


26 posted on 07/12/2010 9:25:49 AM PDT by null and void (We are now in day 534 of our national holiday from reality. - 0bama really isn't one of US.)
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To: Natural Born 54

bttt


27 posted on 07/12/2010 9:45:15 AM PDT by Java4Jay
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To: null and void
Nully, my own lying MK 1 eyes tell me those two pieces of pipe are about the same diameter. It is possible another joint of drill pipe got dropped into the hole when the well blew. That would explain the failure of the BOP to close, too. Pipe rams only close on 1 joint of drill pipe, not two.

Does anyone know the diameter of the drill pipe in use when the well blew out.

28 posted on 07/12/2010 10:21:45 AM PDT by Smokin' Joe (How often God must weep at humans' folly. Stand fast. God knows what He is doing.)
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To: null and void

BP wasn’t dismissing the idea that there was a 2nd pipe in the cut-out section. They even have a picture with two pipes on their web page, where they give their updates.

They were dismissing the idea that the 2nd pipe came up from the well. They believe it is part of the broken pipe from above when the drilling rig sank.


29 posted on 07/12/2010 10:28:18 AM PDT by CharlesWayneCT
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To: Smokin' Joe

Dropped down or was blown up.

Anyway I agree that the BOP probably isn’t designed to shear two pipes to close off the well.

There are also reports that bits of rubber were coming up in the mud before the well blew.

The roughnecks interpreted this as evidence that the seals on the BOP’s hydraulics were damaged.

They were, of course, ignored.


30 posted on 07/12/2010 10:29:12 AM PDT by null and void (We are now in day 534 of our national holiday from reality. - 0bama really isn't one of US.)
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To: CharlesWayneCT

Ah. Thanks for the clarification.


31 posted on 07/12/2010 10:30:08 AM PDT by null and void (We are now in day 534 of our national holiday from reality. - 0bama really isn't one of US.)
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To: null and void
Circumfrence=pi*the diameter, and squashed, divide the circumfrence in half for the width. If the riser is 22 inches, for instance, it would be 3.14*22/2 or about 33 inches wide squashed flat. The two sections of pipe inside are less than half of that, just eyeballing them, Each of them would be the same formula (3.14*the diameter of the pipe)/2

Five inch drill pipe would squash down to about 7 1/2 inches wide, twice that would be about half the width of the riser at 22 inches diameter.

That's just an example, but production casing, the smallest at 7 inches, would squash down to just about 11 inches wide, much larger than the drill pipe.

This looks more like someone dropped a joint or stand (three ~31 ft. joints of drill pipe screwed together) down the hole while all hell was breaking loose on deck. Without the numbers, I can't say for certain, but that could help indicate whether the pipe in the riser was casing (from downhole) or not.

32 posted on 07/12/2010 10:56:38 AM PDT by Smokin' Joe (How often God must weep at humans' folly. Stand fast. God knows what He is doing.)
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To: Smokin' Joe
Agree with you, sure in hell looks like 2 pieces of drill pipe.
Seem to remember that at some time they had stuck pipe and had to cut or back off and side track. Wonder if drill pipe left in the hole could have revisited them?
Just wild a$$ guessing.
33 posted on 07/12/2010 11:07:16 AM PDT by The Cajun (Mind numbed robot , ditto-head, Hannitized, Levinite)
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To: The Cajun

It shouldn’t have if it was in an abandoned leg, that should have been behind pipe and below either cement or a bridge plug and a whipstock, in a dead end leg with no pressure below it. My bet is on something dropped when the SHTF.


34 posted on 07/12/2010 11:38:01 AM PDT by Smokin' Joe (How often God must weep at humans' folly. Stand fast. God knows what He is doing.)
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To: UCANSEE2

Where’d you see that? Per Kent Wells this morning only one piece of drill pipe was found.


35 posted on 07/12/2010 12:11:36 PM PDT by ArmstedFragg (hoaxy dopey changey)
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To: ArmstedFragg

No, they finally have admitted it was 2. Admiral Allen admitted it also. They aren’t sure where it came from.


36 posted on 07/12/2010 12:35:29 PM PDT by mojitojoe (When crisis becomes opportunity, crisis becomes the goal.)
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To: cpdiii

If the oil is reaching the surface around the backside of the casing, wouldn’t that indicate a significant casing breach at the lowest levels? The flow path of the product has been eroding and flushing huge amounts of sedimentary soils up to the ocean bottom. Is there enough mud on the planet to effectively fill this void and choke off the flow? I appreciate your hard-earned insights on this grave matter.


37 posted on 07/12/2010 12:37:27 PM PDT by pingman (Price is what you pay, value is what you get.)
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To: mojitojoe

Check UCANSEE2’s post.

I’m talking about what was found when the flange was pulled overnight.


38 posted on 07/12/2010 12:57:00 PM PDT by ArmstedFragg (hoaxy dopey changey)
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To: ArmstedFragg
Where’d you see that?

Yesterday, about 5000' feet under the ocean when they removed the Riser Tube lower flange. They were sticking up out of the BOP upper flange.

They had a special 'tool' they lowered over the top and cut out the two pipes. Then, they lowered the new TRANSITION SPOOL onto the BOP upper flange (late yesterday evening) and finally tightened the bolts ( early, early this morning, before light)

39 posted on 07/12/2010 1:16:19 PM PDT by UCANSEE2 (The Last Boy Scout)
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To: nikos1121
The plans they have put forth will NOT stop the leak, only capture more of the leaking oil....

IF the pressure tests are successful, they will close the new CAP that is on top of the NEW BOP (junior sized version) that is being mounted on top of the TRANSITION SPOOL.

The closing of that cap could occur sometime late this evening.

IF ALL GOES WELL, the leaking oil will be stopped before tomorrow morning.

I don't know where you are getting your INFO, but it is BS.

40 posted on 07/12/2010 1:19:47 PM PDT by UCANSEE2 (The Last Boy Scout)
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To: SE Mom

If you are interested in the current steps being used to SEAL the wellhead off, here is a complete ANIMATION of exactly what they are doing.

http://bp.concerts.com/gom/sealingcapinstallationanimationwithkentwells070910.htm

If you watch this video, you will end up knowing MORE about the current efforts than 99% of FREEPERS, or the General Public.


41 posted on 07/12/2010 1:25:40 PM PDT by UCANSEE2 (The Last Boy Scout)
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To: dead

I dont’ think Obama has been in politics for 20 years.


42 posted on 07/12/2010 1:27:29 PM PDT by UCANSEE2 (The Last Boy Scout)
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To: CharlesWayneCT
They were dismissing the idea that the 2nd pipe came up from the well. They believe it is part of the broken pipe from above when the drilling rig sank.

It isn't TWO DIFFERENT PIPES. It is the SAME Pipe, but broken into sections. One section fell down beside the other and jammed into place. The only reason the 'ends' of the pipes (that were sticking out) are 'even' is because they were cut off by GIANT DIAGONAL CUTTERS.

43 posted on 07/12/2010 1:31:12 PM PDT by UCANSEE2 (The Last Boy Scout)
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To: pingman
If the oil is reaching the surface around the backside of the casing, wouldn’t that indicate a significant casing breach at the lowest levels? The flow path of the product has been eroding and flushing huge amounts of sedimentary soils up to the ocean bottom. Is there enough mud on the planet to effectively fill this void and choke off the flow? I appreciate your hard-earned insights on this matter

NO. It is flowing around the backside (i.e. outside of the casing) and this is a result of a bad cement job at the level of the production strata. The top of the casing most assuredly no longer has integrity. This would be at the level of the casing hanger that is just below the BOP stack.

Yes the formation will be somewhat eroded but when you consdier the flow rate is 69 barrels a minute (based on worst case estimates of 100,000 a day production) the erosion will not be that major around the casing. However, any constrictins in the BOP stack and around the casing hanger will not have any integrity. High speed sand will cut steel like butter given sufficient velocity. In effect at this moment there are no constrictions in the hole. This is basically open flow. Yes there is enough kill mud to do this. If BP hits the right zone in the production formation (and they will) they can kill the well. If the downhole casing is compromised they will need to kill it twice i.e. oustide the casing and inside the casing.

44 posted on 07/12/2010 1:40:02 PM PDT by cpdiii (Deckhand, Roughneck, Geologist, Pilot, Pharmacist, Iconoclast: THE CONSTITUTION IS WORTH DYING FOR.)
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To: UCANSEE2

Check out the Skandi One video feed. Great shot of the cap and riser uniting.
http://www.bp.com/liveassets/bp_internet/globalbp/globalbp_uk_english/incident_response/STAGING/local_assets/html/Skandi_ROV1.html


45 posted on 07/12/2010 1:45:40 PM PDT by ArmstedFragg (hoaxy dopey changey)
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To: cpdiii

Thanks for the details; glad it didn’t happen on my watch!


46 posted on 07/12/2010 2:15:56 PM PDT by pingman (Price is what you pay, value is what you get.)
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To: null and void

not since he made his last daughter


47 posted on 07/12/2010 3:27:55 PM PDT by al baby (Hi Mom sarc ;))
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To: All

CAP ON !!!!


48 posted on 07/12/2010 4:32:47 PM PDT by ArmstedFragg (hoaxy dopey changey)
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To: UCANSEE2; Ernest_at_the_Beach

It APPEARS...the oil flow has stopped!!!

Shep was just showing it live on FOX.


49 posted on 07/12/2010 4:36:45 PM PDT by SE Mom (Proud mom of an Iraq war combat vet)
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To: SE Mom

Thanks for the ping....


50 posted on 07/12/2010 5:11:48 PM PDT by Ernest_at_the_Beach ( Support Geert Wilders)
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