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Second General Backs Lakin Says President Should Produce Birth Certificate
The Greeley Gazette ^ | 8/9/10 | Jack Minor

Posted on 08/10/2010 1:15:44 PM PDT by jamese777

A second General has come out in support of former Greeley resident Lieutenant Colonel Terry Lakin, who is challenging in court President Obama’s eligibility to be President, saying a good leader would gladly produce the documentation and put this issue to rest.

This past Friday, Lt. Col Lakin attended a military hearing to face several charges including missing a movement. Following the hearing, Lakin was ordered not to speak to the press and was immediately taken by military escort back to Walter Reed Medical Center without even being permitted to speak to his lawyer.

Lakin is being represented by both military and civilian counsel. Margaret Hemenway, spokeswoman for Lt. Col. Lakin said one of his attorneys Paul Rolf Jensen is considering filing a complaint over the manner his client was treated following the hearing.

Army Major General (Ret) Jerry Curry a decorated combat veteran has issued statement saying he agrees with Lakin that the President should provide proof of eligibility. Curry served as Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense for the Carter Administration, as Press Secretary to the Secretary of Defense for the Reagan Administration, and has worked in international relations, public affairs, management, aviation, and research and development.

General Curry lamented that members of the military were having to raise the issue “It shouldn’t be the Lieutenant Colonels, Sergeants and Generals in the Army it should be the Congressman and Senators on both sides of the issue asking this man to step up to the plate” and provide the proof to the American people. Curry expressed concern for Lakin telling the Gazette “the administration will do its best to destroy him personally.”

(Excerpt) Read more at greeleygazette.com ...


TOPICS: News/Current Events; Politics/Elections; US: Colorado
KEYWORDS: army; birthcertificate; birthers; certifigate; eligibility; fraud; generaljerrycurry; lakin; military; naturalborncitizen; obama; terrylakin
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To: SpaceBar

Even having to put up with a Junta for a little while would be worth witnessing that.

VP Biteme would need some clean drawers. Hitlery n slick would be moving to Hateee, their Caribean kingdom.


51 posted on 08/10/2010 2:48:07 PM PDT by dusttoyou (Let the other side get all wee-wee'd up, Remember come November)
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To: jamese777
Karl Rove, February 17, 2010, The Wall Street Journal Editorial Page

Karl Rove is an Obot kneepadder? Who knew?

52 posted on 08/10/2010 3:01:17 PM PDT by Drew68
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To: SatinDoll

Thanks for bringing that up.


53 posted on 08/10/2010 3:06:36 PM PDT by little jeremiah
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Comment #54 Removed by Moderator

To: jamese777

Curry isn’t insisting Obama was not born in the U.S., so I guess you need a new answer and a new label??


55 posted on 08/10/2010 3:08:44 PM PDT by edge919
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To: Drew68

More likely a sandhead instead of faither. Just don’t know the facts.


56 posted on 08/10/2010 3:11:37 PM PDT by edge919
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To: LucyT
General Curry lamented that members of the military were having to raise the issue “It shouldn’t be the Lieutenant Colonels, Sergeants and Generals in the Army it should be the Congressman and Senators on both sides of the issue asking this man to step up to the plate” and provide the proof to the American people.

Can't disagree with him at all. But our gutless wonders won't touch it.

57 posted on 08/10/2010 3:26:17 PM PDT by azishot (I can see November from my house!)
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To: edge919

Curry isn’t insisting Obama was not born in the U.S., so I guess you need a new answer and a new label??


Don’t try to kill the messenger.
The label and the article comes directly from the Greeley, Colorado Gazette. FreeRepublic doesn’t like it when posters try to change the title of newspaper articles.

I am delighted to see however that you actually read the article and that your reading comprehension skills appear to be improving. Good work, Edge! I’m proud of you.


58 posted on 08/10/2010 3:28:49 PM PDT by jamese777
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To: stuartcr

Well if these retired guys are doing it maybe the active guys might follow.


59 posted on 08/10/2010 3:31:08 PM PDT by stevio (Crunchy Con - God, guns, guts, and organically grown crunchy nuts.)
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To: ZULU

There’s always a price to pay for leading a pruincipled life. But the inner feeling of being ethical is never lost. In this case he is also providing a service to his country.


60 posted on 08/10/2010 3:33:45 PM PDT by whence911 (Here illegally? Go home. Get in line!)
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To: jamese777
The titles of this thread, and of the thread on the Greeley Gazette don't comport with the statement by Gen. Curry. The title, intentionally or not, suggests that a birth certificate or birth on our soil makes Obama eligible. The statement by Gen. Curry was “...saying he agrees with Lakin that the President should provide proof of eligibility.” Curry did not, at least in what was reported, mention birth certificates. He asked for "proof of eligibility."

Obama’s ineligibility has been "proved" by Obama himself. Having an alien father is not the same as “born on the soil of citizen parents,” or, from John Bingham's address to the House in “...of parents not owing allegiance to any foreign sovereignty is, in the language of your Constitution itself, a natural-born citizen;”

As the "Anchor Baby" discussion, around the meaning of the authors of the 14th amendment proceeds, watch how pundits avoid the above statement by John Bingham. They all know. Even Ann Coulter and Roger Hedgecock refer to another of the contributors, Senator Stewart, as the “principal author of the 14th Amendment. Are they afraid of naming Bingham, called “The Madison of the 14th Amendment” by Justice Hugo Black because of his clarity on natural born citizenship? Obama’s ineligibility has become a hot potato. Because his father was never a citizen, Obama, by his own admission, was born a British Subject, Obama cannot be a natural born citizen. Read a bit about John Bingham and his fierce campaign to right the wrong of racial discrimination. http://www.constitution.org/col/intent_14th.htm It would be a just irony to have the words of the the man most responsible for fighting for the citizenship of slaves, making them equal under the Constitution, clarify that the racist in the White House sits fraudulently in office, using racial division to curtail our Constitutional freedoms.

61 posted on 08/10/2010 3:39:29 PM PDT by Spaulding
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To: Michael.SF.

how so?

http://www.curryforamerica.com/AboutJerryCurry.htm

http://www.jerrycurry.com/militarycareer.html


62 posted on 08/10/2010 3:46:07 PM PDT by Brown Deer (Pray for Obama. Psalm 109:8)
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To: jamese777

Way to go, Gen. Curry.


63 posted on 08/10/2010 3:50:28 PM PDT by afraidfortherepublic (Southeast Wisconsin)
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To: jamese777

Who’s killing the messenger?? Below is one of your uses of the term:

“Obama is fantastic at baseball, the score of the game is currently Obama: 71/Birthers: 0.”

Are you saying you only use the term ‘birthers’ when it has a Rovian application??

And btw, I wish I could return the compliment, but I’m going to need to see better work on your end.


64 posted on 08/10/2010 3:58:19 PM PDT by edge919
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To: jamese777

Who’s killing the messenger?? Below is one of your uses of the term:

“Obama is fantastic at baseball, the score of the game is currently Obama: 71/Birthers: 0.”

Are you saying you only use the term ‘birthers’ when it has a Rovian application??

And btw, I wish I could return the compliment, but I’m going to need to see better work on your end.


65 posted on 08/10/2010 3:58:26 PM PDT by edge919
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To: Rannug

You do Free Republic no favor posting remarks like that.


66 posted on 08/10/2010 4:01:28 PM PDT by Drew68
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To: jamese777

Do generals not have to read or obey the UCMJ these days? Seems to be a growing phenomena, and I haven’t heard much talk of courtmartials like we would have even 5 years ago.


67 posted on 08/10/2010 4:31:34 PM PDT by COgamer
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To: jamese777

Lakin was ordered not to speak to the press and was immediately taken by military escort back to Walter Reed Medical Center without even being permitted to speak to his lawyer.


68 posted on 08/10/2010 4:46:18 PM PDT by tutstar
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To: COgamer

My initial comment above referred to the general’s professionalism, and the appropriateness of that sort of political comment from a man in uniform. I’m sure there’s great frustration - but as of right now these calls are being effectively countered by the media. With some exceptions that fall mostly along party lines, the media has succeeded in convincing the American people that Obama has already released his BC - which makes those calling for its release seem crazy.

The media is going to keep saying “but Obama’s birth certificate has been on the net, visible to all, for the last 2 years! Stupid, stupid birthers.”

The whole Certificate of Live Birth just goes over people’s heads. Recently on Pollster they did a piece about a CNN survey looking at the ‘birther’ issue, and the author was kind enough to include an image of the Certificate of Live Birth, with a heading saying “see, here’s a copy of the Birth Certificate right now!”

They just count on people being stupid. That’s all there is to it. If the actual Birth Certificate was produced this argument would have been over before it even started. And if the actual Birth Certificate was already available why would the administration continue fighting its release in court?

It would be frustrating to me if I believed this was a mistake - that the media are just stupid and believe their own stories. But I don’t believe its a mistake, rather a purposeful mis-representation that they probably see as a “white lie” because Americans just don’t understand anything without the media to let them know what they should think.

More states need to introduce laws requiring ACTUAL birth certificates. Then when Obama finally does produce a birth certificate (or doesn’t) the media will be in the position of having to explain why they were reporting he’d already released it. And if it DOES show anything questionable - well, then they get to explain that too.

It’s very dispiriting all in all.

I hate to see military men damaging their careers over this - and its just not appropriate. They’re there to follow orders and keep their political opinions, at least where the media is involved, to themselves. And that’s what they should do.


69 posted on 08/10/2010 4:52:17 PM PDT by COgamer
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To: COgamer

What makes you more special than Jerry Curry?


70 posted on 08/10/2010 5:00:08 PM PDT by Brown Deer (Pray for Obama. Psalm 109:8)
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To: stevio

That would be something indeed.


71 posted on 08/10/2010 5:32:24 PM PDT by stuartcr (Everything happens as God wants it to...otherwise, things would be different)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
Growing legs indeed.

The Constitution is under attack.

Soebarkah, Indonesian National, British Born Subject, Islamic Kenyan citizen, and 44th president of the US.

The Truth is out and It's not going back in the bottle.

72 posted on 08/10/2010 5:40:17 PM PDT by PA-RIVER
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Honduras had a good outcome. The problem is that here, the venal legislative class, and the feral White House, are wholly unaccustomed to accountability.


73 posted on 08/10/2010 5:43:09 PM PDT by bvw
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To: tutstar

Lakin was ordered not to speak to the press and was immediately taken by military escort back to Walter Reed Medical Center without even being permitted to speak to his lawyer.


Yes, I heard that. That’s extremely rare in a Court Martial but then its extremely rare for any Lieutenant Colonel to be Court Martialed at all and its even more rare for a Lieutenant Colonel to appear on television and on the internet discussing the fact that he intends to disobey orders from his direct superior officers.


74 posted on 08/10/2010 5:53:57 PM PDT by jamese777
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To: COgamer

Do generals not have to read or obey the UCMJ these days? Seems to be a growing phenomena, and I haven’t heard much talk of courtmartials like we would have even 5 years ago.


Yes, everyone in the military from generals to privates has to follow what is written in the UCMJ.

Just because you haven’t heard of many court martials doesn’t mean that they aren’t happening every single day. The media tend not to cover them unless they are really dealing with sensational issues.
Court martials tend to be much less exciting viewing or hearing than civilian trials.


75 posted on 08/10/2010 5:57:36 PM PDT by jamese777
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To: edge919

Who’s killing the messenger?? Below is one of your uses of the term:

“Obama is fantastic at baseball, the score of the game is currently Obama: 71/Birthers: 0.”

Are you saying you only use the term ‘birthers’ when it has a Rovian application??

And btw, I wish I could return the compliment, but I’m going to need to see better work on your end.


Its hard to tell which thread you are referring to without a scorecard. I thought you were talking about THIS thread.

I find the term “birther” to be a mild perjorative. I prefer “those challenging Obama’s eligibility.” But sometimes I use it for shorthard.


76 posted on 08/10/2010 6:00:34 PM PDT by jamese777
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To: Spaulding

The titles of this thread, and of the thread on the Greeley Gazette don’t comport with the statement by Gen. Curry. The title, intentionally or not, suggests that a birth certificate or birth on our soil makes Obama eligible. The statement by Gen. Curry was “...saying he agrees with Lakin that the President should provide proof of eligibility.” Curry did not, at least in what was reported, mention birth certificates. He asked for “proof of eligibility.”
Obama’s ineligibility has been “proved” by Obama himself. Having an alien father is not the same as “born on the soil of citizen parents,” or, from John Bingham’s address to the House in “...of parents not owing allegiance to any foreign sovereignty is, in the language of your Constitution itself, a natural-born citizen;”

As the “Anchor Baby” discussion, around the meaning of the authors of the 14th amendment proceeds, watch how pundits avoid the above statement by John Bingham. They all know. Even Ann Coulter and Roger Hedgecock refer to another of the contributors, Senator Stewart, as the “principal author of the 14th Amendment. Are they afraid of naming Bingham, called “The Madison of the 14th Amendment” by Justice Hugo Black because of his clarity on natural born citizenship? Obama’s ineligibility has become a hot potato. Because his father was never a citizen, Obama, by his own admission, was born a British Subject, Obama cannot be a natural born citizen. Read a bit about John Bingham and his fierce campaign to right the wrong of racial discrimination. http://www.constitution.org/col/intent_14th.htm It would be a just irony to have the words of the the man most responsible for fighting for the citizenship of slaves, making them equal under the Constitution, clarify that the racist in the White House sits fraudulently in office, using racial division to curtail our Constitutional freedoms.


The following is from the last paragraph of Lieutenant Colonel Lakin’s letter to President Obama (yes LtC. Lakin uses the term “President Obama” in his greeting):
“Unless it is established (by this sufficient proof that should be easily within your power to provide) that you are constitutionally eligible to serve as President and my Commander-in-Chief, I, and all other military officers may be following illegal orders. Therefore, sir, until an official birth certificate is brought forward that validates your eligibility and puts to rest the other reasonable questions surrounding your unproven eligibility, I cannot in good conscience obey ANY military orders.”
Respectfully,
Terry Lakin


77 posted on 08/10/2010 6:44:32 PM PDT by jamese777
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To: jamese777
a good leader would gladly produce the documentation and put this issue to rest.

A good one would.

78 posted on 08/10/2010 7:57:00 PM PDT by null and void (We are now in day 563 of our national holiday from reality. - 0bama really isn't one of US.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
Growing legs, it is. Ending in revolt, this will.

I hope not!

(A revolt is different than a revolution, in that a revolution is, by definition, successful)...

79 posted on 08/10/2010 8:00:16 PM PDT by null and void (We are now in day 563 of our national holiday from reality. - 0bama really isn't one of US.)
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To: DManA
face several charges including missing a movement.

I understand they pretty much control your life in the military but that seems a little....invasive.

Well DUH!

Why do you think they call it the Regular Army?

80 posted on 08/10/2010 8:03:43 PM PDT by null and void (We are now in day 563 of our national holiday from reality. - 0bama really isn't one of US.)
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To: SpaceBar; All

“The joint chiefs should simply have Obama arrested and stand trial in a military court.”

As savory a mental picture that is, it cannot nor should not happen. We are not some third world banana republic.

I’m associated with the military, and it is NOT our business to decide who is or isn’t POTUS. I do agree with the orderly way LTC Lakin is pursuing his case. I hope he is successful; but the talking heads here on FR have already got him tired and convicted.


81 posted on 08/10/2010 8:09:08 PM PDT by Sola Veritas (Trying to speak truth - not always with the best grammar or spelling)
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To: jamese777

You use it for ‘shorthard’?? What in Faithersville is that??


82 posted on 08/10/2010 8:12:25 PM PDT by edge919
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To: jamese777

“Do generals not have to read or obey the UCMJ these days?”

They are retired generals. I don’t believe they are subject to the UCMJ anymore.


83 posted on 08/10/2010 8:13:42 PM PDT by Sola Veritas (Trying to speak truth - not always with the best grammar or spelling)
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To: LucyT; Smokeyblue; null and void; stockpirate; george76; PhilDragoo; Candor7; rxsid; MeekOneGOP

General Jerry Curry has a very impressive bio, among serving three Presidents!!!


84 posted on 08/10/2010 10:26:25 PM PDT by danamco (")
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To: Spaulding

We also need to get to the bottom of the Indonesian connection from the missing Passport pages regarding the FOIA that finally was presented to Mr. Strunk


85 posted on 08/10/2010 10:35:54 PM PDT by danamco (")
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To: jamese777
Yes James777, I'm well aware the Dr. Lakin has apparently taken that position and it puzzles me. I've questioned whomever manages the blog on his site. My positive assumption is that the Obots and the JournoList media have so successfully clouded the issue for the public with tabloid conjecture (not that none of it isn't true) about who the real father was, who the real mother was, etc. Dr. Lakin’s team may have decided that presenting doubts about Obama’s eligibility in terms easy to understand - he hasn't shown a long form birth certificate - will attract more interest and thus support.

It is obviously true that the regime has gone to considerable effort to keep most of the legal documents concerning Obama's life concealed, from disappearing kindergarten records, to prosecuting records technicians who might have seen his test records and grant applications, to perhaps killing an operative working for Obama’s security chief sent to “cauterize” Obama’s U.S. State Dept. passport records.

Dr. Lakin did include “...and puts to rest the other reasonable questions surrounding your unproven eligibility.” Perhaps he wants to open the door using what appears to be the “low-hanging-fruit” of concealed records to reach discovery. The natural born citizen charge, while obviously true, leads straight to the Supreme Court, and may enhance the likelihood of a lengthy stall, backroom meetings, and the kind of transparency for which the regime has become famous. The lack of records is in evidence, and may be sufficient evidence to force discovery. If there is a trial, some judge must state the definition of a natural born citizen. Would anyone dare contradict John Jay, John Marshall, Morrison Waite, James Wilson, James Kent, Joseph Story, or 14th Amendment John Bingham?

If a birth certificate exists, which I suspect is the case, then the concealment was to direct attention from the fact of ineligibility based upon an alien father and Obama’s admitted birth as a British citizen. If some court is granted discovery, a birth certificate will appear with some story about why it was embarrassing. Like Chester Arthur who helped prolong the false charge that Chester was born in Canada or Ireland, leading the political enemies away from the real weakness. Arthur always had a U.S. birth certificate which he never chose to make public. The false charge became such an issue that the date of Arthur's father's naturalization was never explored until Leo Donofrio came across the documents in 2008, documents obviously missed when Arthur had his personal effects burned shortly before his death. Arthur, like I believe, Obama knew that if he were ever forced to reveal the birth certificate, he held the trump card. After being forced to prove his U.S. birth no one would dare ask other questions.

My negative assumption is that Dr. Lakin is another elaborate charade to misdirect the public, like an illusionist telling you what to watch, as were Senate Bill 2678 and Senate Res. 511 by Clair McCaskill to give the impression that McCain had been, after ten years of hearings and law suits, finally made eligible. I don't think this is likely. Lakin’s public service was hard earned. He would have too little to gain. It's like the combat seasoned pilots over Long Island who saw a missile headed for Flight 800. They had nothing to gain from lying, whereas the Clinton administration, FBI and CIA, by covering the truth, protected the president's re-electability. So I'm assuming that the Lakin position is a legal tactic. I do agree with you, the Lakin statement is inconsistent with the legal and Constitutional certainty that Obama’s ineligibility is based upon evidence provided long ago by Obama himself. That was audacious, and clever. He knew he couldn't hide it, so he advertised it. Obama chose, from my new favorite among political slogans, Andy Stern's “First use the power of persuasion, and if that doesn't work, the persuasion of power” to surpress the few who might know or learn about the meaning and intent of the framers requirement of natural born citizenship for just our president. The Obama team is counting on our ignorance, and counting on considerable help from the state-run media in keeping us ignorant.

86 posted on 08/10/2010 10:59:31 PM PDT by Spaulding
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To: ZULU

You said:

The BEST hope for America is to prove this bastard is an illegitimate President.

It would call into question the legality of his appointments and any laws he has enacted, in addition to removing his Marxist Muslim Butt from the Oval Office in disgrace.

If he knowingly CONCEALED the status of his lack of qualifiction, he may be subject to criminal or civil penalties.

This is exactly why "birthers" are targets. Obama and everyone who has given him cover knows it. This is how they will fail in their mission to destroy America.

 


87 posted on 08/10/2010 11:36:34 PM PDT by Natural Born 54 (FUBO x 10)
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To: edge919

You use it for ‘shorthard’?? What in Faithersville is that??


Its known in colloquial English as a “typo”. Can you say “typo”? That’s “tie-po”. Try it again, “typo.”

Very good, Edge. You’ll get colloquial English down in “no time flat.” That’s called an “idiomatic expression”...”no time flat.” Can you say “idiomatic expression, Edge?”


88 posted on 08/10/2010 11:42:24 PM PDT by jamese777
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To: jamese777

Overkilling the reply doesn’t make your goof-up any less ridiculous.


89 posted on 08/10/2010 11:49:27 PM PDT by edge919
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To: stuartcr

“I bet there won’t be many active generals saying that.”

As he says, they shouldn’t have to.

And they aren’t supposed to.


90 posted on 08/11/2010 12:05:28 AM PDT by truth_seeker
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To: truth_seeker

True, they shouldn’t have to, and true the LTC wasn’t supposed to either.


91 posted on 08/11/2010 6:51:29 AM PDT by stuartcr (Everything happens as God wants it to...otherwise, things would be different)
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To: Mind-numbed Robot
I suspect the reason the military whisked Lakin straight to Walter Reed was to put him in the psych ward and claim he is crazy.

Nothing new there. This communist administration is following the defunct boss, The USSR.

Any Soviet citizen who dared open his mouth was put in a psychiatric ward and drugged to oblivion. They had an explanation to their actions: if you opposed the communist government, you had to be out of your mind, given the punishment for such offense!

If we let the situation deteriorate more than it did already, putting dissidents away as crazy with the media support will certainly be the order of the day, as you said:

Sad to say but that is not uncommon in the military and may be coming to a city near you under Obamacare.

92 posted on 08/11/2010 7:26:02 AM PDT by melancholy (It ain't Camelot, it's Scam-a-lot!)
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To: jamese777
Army Major General (Ret) Jerry Curry
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Retired. So?...I how does this help? :-(

93 posted on 08/11/2010 7:45:44 AM PDT by wintertime (Good ideas win! Why? Because people are not stupid.)
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To: jamese777
Obama appointed the Joint Chiefs. They are all his personal choices.

Wonderful! According to you, the joint chiefs are now considered 0b0z0's joint chefs, I wonder what will be on the menu.

Why, James, you started a "Birther" thread! Did you cross to the dark side or are you just being "democratic?"

94 posted on 08/11/2010 7:51:44 AM PDT by melancholy (It ain't Camelot, it's Scam-a-lot!)
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To: DrC
No Democrat can advance a coherent argument about why withholding the long form BC is a good idea or justifiable.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Exactly! The **facts** are really very simple:

Fact: It is a simple matter to prove that one is a natural born citizen.

Fact: A natural born president would be **HONORED** to promptly prove ( with the **best** evidence) to any soldier or other citizen that he was indeed natural born and eligible to be president and Commander in Chief.

Fact: Obama has gone to considerable effort and spent tax dollars and his own to prevent the release of the common documents that would prove ( or disprove) his natural born status.

Conclusion: That Obama has treated ( and continues to treat) military officers and other citizens in the manner that he has ( and continues to do), strongly indicates that he is a usurper.

95 posted on 08/11/2010 7:51:58 AM PDT by wintertime (Good ideas win! Why? Because people are not stupid.)
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To: jamese777

How many are there that won’t speak out? All it takes is one small crack in the Dam.


96 posted on 08/11/2010 7:53:13 AM PDT by Republic of Texas (Socialism Always Fails)
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To: BuckeyeTexan
Whatever the reason, the fact that military official are requiring Obama’s signature on orders speaks volumes (to me) about this administration.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I have no military experience. Could you expand on this for me? What is the significance of have Obama personally sign orders? What does trust have to do with it?

97 posted on 08/11/2010 7:58:11 AM PDT by wintertime (Good ideas win! Why? Because people are not stupid.)
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To: melancholy
I am glad there is someone else out there who knows this.

If we let the situation deteriorate more than it did already, putting dissidents away as crazy with the media support will certainly be the order of the day, as you said:

98 posted on 08/11/2010 10:24:23 AM PDT by Mind-numbed Robot (Not all that needs to be done needs to be done by the government)
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To: NoLibZone

Great idea!


99 posted on 08/11/2010 10:31:45 AM PDT by jslade (People that are easily offended OFFEND ME!)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Smart, you sound.


100 posted on 08/11/2010 10:48:41 AM PDT by Greenperson
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