Skip to comments.Myths, Legends, & Misconceptions of the Wolf
Posted on 08/21/2010 12:08:13 PM PDT by Tom Hawks
I and others have written extensively about the wolf reintroduction program and the destruction it has caused since the first 60 were released into Yellowstone Park and Idaho in 1995. What we are attempting to do with these articles is to wake up as many people as possible about the danger the left has put Americans in.
There is a Wolf Cult in America that has convinced many Americans that it would be a good thing to have wild wolves as neighbors in our local parks. Well I for one, and many like me, do not wish to be confronted by a wolf when we decide to go fishing or camping. Especially since the wolves that are being introduced into our parks, like to roam in packs. So if you see one you can bet the farm there are more lurking around near by.
Gate was given permission to post, in whole, an article written by T. R. Mader, the Research Director of AWS which is an independent research organization. Mader has researched wolf history for more than 15 years before he wrote this article. He has since traveled extensively as he continues conducting research and interviews on environmental issues.
Mader wrote this article at the height of furor over the wolf re-introduction program in 1995 & 96. It's my hope that by posting this, many of you will have a better understanding of the anger many ranchers, farmers, hunters, and even regular small town city folk have with a program that has proved to be everything those against the program warned about some 15 years ago.
Due to the length of the article, it has been divided into three parts, and instead of creating three separate posts on FR, I have created three links below for you to follow if you so desire to read the article, "Myths, Legends, & Misconceptions of the Wolf".
Part 1- Misconceptions 1 to 6
Part 2 - Misconceptions 7 to 12
Part 3 - Conclusion & Bibliography
What strikes me, and others who are against introducing vicious predators like wolves into areas occupied by humans, is the number of conservatives who agree with the pro-wolf crowd. If you think it's OK, then let us release them in your neck of the woods, and let you deal with them.
If they could be "controlled" (zap collars perhaps) they'd give us a good start on the North end's 60 to 70 thousand wild deer, and the South end's 50 thousand wild deer.
Fire arms are inappropriate in a heavily urbanized area where you are unable to "clear" downrange. But wolves would be fine. Just track'em and follow them around with a meat wagon or something.
Be very careful what you ask for, because you know very well that those who would implement the program will be the same ones who are now denying the destruction these wolves are wrecking in the Northwest.
What you need to do is get rid of the stupid laws that only let you hunt at certain times of the year. If you have that many deer, then extend the hunting season to a year round and allow each hunter to kill more per tag.
However, DO NOT ask for wolves to be released into your area. First get rid of the wolves running your state that will not allow the hunters to do what they do best.
No, this is an urban area ~ very urban. The hunting laws don't need to be liberalized at all ~ we need animals who can kill lots of deer.
Yeah and if pigs could fly...
You are delusional if you think that an animal that will kill many deer will only kill the deer. Look into what is going on in Northern Minn, Wisc, and Mich and you will think differently.
Once the deer population is down, what do you think those wolves will be hinting?
I’ll tell you what, farm animals, your pets and your small children.
Most of the time I see the reverse --- humans being released into animals' neck of the woods.
I was talking to a guy at the range who owns hunting land in northern Wisc. He told about a deer that came limping by, its back all torn up from wolves. He put it down. Wolves have decimated the deer in northern Wisc. The bears, cougars and coyotes don't help either.
And what do you suggest, limit mans ability to go into the woods. You sound like a leftist who agrees that people belong in the city where the government can control us.
Look into the history of this and you will see that the wolf was NEVER in danger of going extinct.
The only thin in danger of going extinct is every Americans RIGHT to go into the woods because idiots like you are worried about man infringing upon the animals world.
I suggested zap collars. The wolf goes the wrong way, or decides to eat doggies instead of deer, s/he gets zapped.
They're smart. Even coyotes learn to obey traffic signals ~ I've watched one stop at the red. Wait for the green and then look both ways and cross safely.
But coyotes aren't big enough to take down a bunch of deer and won't work in groups. Wolves are big, strong and cooperative. We could begin training them in nearby military enclosures with 20 ft high barbed wire topped fences.
I’m still amazed every time I hear an adult refer to these animals as “woofs”! I’ve even heard preachers use this term (e,g,”sheep in “woof’s clothing”...).
Actually what you need to do is to open the area to archery hunting. Cities like Pittsburgh have done this to control suburban deer populations.
In highly populated districts the firearms for hunting deer are limited to shotguns with either buckshot of slugs, both of which are very limited in range, especially the buckshot. Archery is another way to limit damage to things other than the deer being hunted. Making excuses for not allowing hunting is just BS. The reason you have so many is because not enough people hunt them.
Pittsburgh is not Fairfax.
Wolves need to be hunted. The problem in part is that it seems due to white flight of liberals out of Crapistan California the wolf has to share his mountain habitat with liberals. Open season on all.
They're freezers are bursting with venison. If the Salvadorans around here had freezers, they'd be filling them too.
These things breed like bunnies and hide out behind homes. We found 7 of them trimming my lawn the other day (drought's hard on 'em).
What's going on is that people plant lawns, plant bushes, plant bulbs, plant all manner of good things for deer to eat and fail to instal 12 ft high fences around it. Deer can outbreed the ability of their predators to kill them ~ and will outbreed their range.
Only a man/wolf combo double-team has a hope of driving down this surplus.
Bzzzt. Wrong. Coyotes can, and do, hunt in packs. They can also take down deer although they usually hung smaller game and also take out domestic animals such as sheep and goats, not to mention cats and dogs. I doubt very seriously if wolves can be taught to hunt on command.
Anyone who has spent time hunting or just being in the field, and is serious about the environment, as we sportsmen are, do get it. The rest watch too much Animal Planet.
No it's not but if I lived in Fairfax (I did about 25 yrs ago) I would give archery hunting a try before I reintroduced savage, bloodthirsty, uncontrollable killers.
***we need animals who can kill lots of deer.***
That would be me!
It seems this way only because you make a leap of faith, a logical fallacy, in your thinking:
"The only thin in danger of going extinct is every Americans RIGHT to go into the woods"
Nobody has deprived you of that right. What you insist is that you should be able to go to the woods in complete safety. What's next? Should we pay for some people to escort you there and kill mosquitoes around you, lest you may be bitten and infected with lime decease? Should we remove trees with protruding branches so that your Highness will not trip and brake his leg?
You are free to go to the woods. Do so at YOUR own risk.
"People following you and because idiots like you"
So, who does sound like a leftist? Mere disagreement with your point of view results in name-calling. No questions, no discussion. Even some of my liberal friends are more inquisitive and tolerant to ideas.
I don't take any offense: people who so hastily and without reason call resort to name-calling only underscore their own ignorance and the inability to think. The logical fallacy in your statement is shown above.
I shall not reply to you fuhrer. In view of your rudeness, you have not deserved even this one.
deer kill people too - a lot
Since the wolf has been reintroduced to Yellowstone the ecology has gone back to what it used to be. If there wasn’t a purpose for wolves do you suppose they’d exist? I think enough animals become extinct without the help of man. If the wolves survive and thrive the world must need them. And yes, I do live with lots of wildlife lurking. Mostly bears, bobcats, coyotes, snakes. They were here first. I respect them and try to stay out of their way. And I occasionally get to watch a bald eagle take a bath.
You sound like the Jews who trusted that Hitler would only help the State get over their economic woes, but all the other crap he said was just talk. Besides, all that talk about him hating Jews is just a bunch of scare tactics by those who don’t understand how badly the country needs someone who can fix the problem and make the trains run on time.
Let us allow the wolves into the sheep fold, they will only kill the deer. Besides, all that talk about wolves killing pets, farm animals, and little children is just a bunch scare tactics used by those who don’t understand how badly we need the wolves to fix the problem and make the deer problem go away.
Useful idiots is what Hitler and his men called people like you. By the way, are you Jewish?
“Actually what you need to do is to open the area to archery hunting.”
When firearms are used, I know enough to hit the dirt. Is there much of an issue w/those “to whom it may concern” arrows?
That's one whale of a big rubber band - to stretch it out to equate anyone who disagrees with you on the wolf question as akin to Jews in Nazi Germany -
I'd say your deep seated and despicable prejudges are showing.
At the very least, such attacks as you use to bolster your side of an argument illustrates only your inability to have a civilized discussion - thus rendering anything you have to say further - moot.
But you have my sympathies: Wherever you go, there you are.
“Wolves were transplanted to Yellowstone and central Idaho on the following dates in 1995: January 11, 12, 19, 21. The first livestock killed was January 29, 1995 near Salmon, Idaho.”
That’s eight days after the last transplant. Just 15 years later we have wolves killing livestock in Eastern Oregon.
Wolves prefer livestock to game because domesticated animals are slow and stupid compared to game making them a cheap and easy dinner date.
Reintroduction was a leftist fool’s dream that is being paid for by farmers and ranchers. Just another one of the many ways they pick our pockets so they can live in their utopia.
TH: "That explains your ignorance. I readily admit I have no friends who are liberal."
Ignorance? Why don't you demonstrate what was ignorant in my post? You are even lower than previously revealed.
Once again, nothing about the ideas that you yourself put on the table, not even an attempt to address what I said. This is, of course, only because you have nothing to say. It's easy to win over dumb fish, but when it comes to thinking --- just can't do it, can you?
Some people are intolerant and see the world in black and white only because they are young. You, however, will never grow out of that, sadly.
You have considerable fascist and Marxist streaks in your worldview. It was Marx's idea that a person's station in life determines his thinking. And so you too claim that my living on the East Coast determines my thinking.
It's funny to hear a Marxist calling a conservative a RINO. Once again, I take no offense, just laugh.
It's because of "conservatives" like you that we have a communist in the White House. Enjoy.
What’s going on is that people in your area have quit hunting and eating them. Deer aren’t outbreeding their predators, their predators (man) got rich and fat and lazy and quit hunting in favor of McDonalds.
If economic times get desperate enough, you might be glad of that abundance.
Just put out a lot more licenses for deer and forget the wolves because your dogs and cats and children wouldn’t be safe.
Most people aren’t aware that wolves are being released on the east coast. But they are not the larger grey wolves, they are red wolves that are somewhat smaller and more coyote like. There are at least several hundred of them in the eastern marshy woods of North Carolina. They are very beautiful, fast, and can hunt smaller game including small deer. Whether their population will stabilize, or start spreading out like coyotes is anyones guess.
Not wolves - they'll hunt the pets, then the kids, then you. And they can't be controlled.
Really? Calling people “jews” and referring to them as “like the jews that trusted hitler”? Really? What kind of small brained child are you? Just because someone does not agree with you, does not give you the right to be shmuck. I bet you think Wolves only kill the weak or the sick animals! I know more about Wolves North America than ever will, and you sound like a 4th grader repeating PETA brochure bullet points.
Ours are. We have Coyotes that are the size of large dogs. I've seen some that I thought were red Huskies but they were large Coyotes. I'm guessing they weigh 50lbs or more. I have two part Yellow Mountain Curs that weigh 60lbs and the Coyotes appear to be as big as the Curs are. Ours also hunt in packs and make a terrible racket when they are hunting. So far they have never attacked a human but they don't seem to be afraid either. A lot of the Eastern Coyotes are very large and hunt in packs like wolves. I know they do because I've seen them.
Those are a training device and can't be worn continually - if worn continually, the posts wear holes/sores in the animals' necks (infection) and the nylon collar becomes enbedded in a growing animal's neck. Horrible mess. Plus they are battery operated and the batteries would need replacing.
AND - They don't shock hard enough to do more to an animal of that size with that kind of coat than to just piss them off.....
Where do you get your Yellowstone news from, the Green Channel?
There IS no status-quo with regard to ecology. It's alive. It's dynamic. It is ever-changing. Trying to control it, achieve it, pursue it, or create it, is wasted vanity. There is no "normal." Five hundred years ago is nothing in the grand scheme, you would agree? Well, 500 years ago there was snow all the way down to the coastline of California in areas that today only see mountop snow once a decade, if that. Much colder weather was NORMAL. If that suddenly became normal again in the next two years, many millions would starve because California agriculture currently feeds much of the nation. There IS no status quo. There is no "what it used to be."
I do live with lots of wildlife lurking. Mostly bears, bobcats, coyotes, snakes. They were here first. I respect them and try to stay out of their way.
*sigh* Live and let live is a vital part of natural conservation, but if your bears included Grizzlies, and if your local mix included wolves ... dear, you would not be living "with lots of wildlife lurking" for long.
You were there "second," remember?
There are certain animals that do present a you-or-me scenario. Grizzlies used to be very plentiful in my neck of the woods. If their numbers were even restored by half, dozens of people would be killed annually and livestock ranching would be impossible. Wolves belong in the far, far hinterlands or in the zoo.
"Who was here first" is a child's rationale.
I am the wolf hater, not him. I say kill every damn one of them.
He is the one who comes off like a PETA member.
You need to reread the comments and figure out who is on wat side.
In case you're wondering, CaraMia, this is coming from a person who suspects that a possum has set up housekeeping in a nearby wall of her home and who probably won't do anything about it because it will leave next spring anyway; who (no doubt foolishly) is reluctant to remove a beehive from an outside wall after five years (I'm not alergic to bees and a sting is usually a minor -- as in forgotten in five minutes -- issue); and who lives in close proximity with mountain lions (I wish people could shoot at them), lots and lots of coyotes (I wish people could shoot at them), raccons, bobcats, and so damned many groundsquirrels and gophers that the dirt is like honeycomb. So live-and-let-live is something I practice, but I believe part of live-and-let-live is making sure things that would kill me or mine live where I'ain't. Shooting at them, including killing them when the aim is good, is the part of let-live-where-I-ain't comes in. The animals learn to go somewhere else.
I hear ‘em running the deer at night through my woods. Siberian Huskies (aka domesticated Russian Wolves) are often mistaken for our coyotes - (I have small breed dog - pure bred that goes straight back 4,000 years - bred to hunt small game in the brush. Except for his predominantly black color and smaller size, has this same profile. Beautiful animals.
Anything that can kill deer can kill humans. Wolves in the suburbs would be worse than black bears and they are not good at all. When you wish for something like this, picture kids playing, riding bikes, etc.
There is a very good answer to overpopulation of deer in suburbs. Either bait them out to where they can be shot by hunters or hire the professional removers. They are very efficient and kill and remove the deer with little fanfare and the meat is utilized by charitable organizations.
There was a reason that those that came before us wiped out the top line predators from area’s where humans live....they didn’t want themselves or there kids to be eaten by wolves, cougar or bear....or the livestock they depended on for their food source...
One of the rules of nature is that when a bigger or stronger animal comes into another animals territory, they either fight until on is dead or the weaker one heads for a different territory...I am all for us winning...the wolves in some states have decimated deer and elk populations...
Bow hunting. Or, my city hires “sharp shooters” at carefully controlled times of the year to pick off the deer. Of course, we are a little more rural than Fairfax Co.
:O) Keep up the good work........shoot one for granny...