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Rock River Arms PDS Pistol
Ammoland ^ | 27 Aug 2010 | unattributed

Posted on 08/27/2010 9:30:29 PM PDT by smokingfrog

Colona, IL --(Ammoland.com)- Rock River Arms has the reputation for producing top quality AR15s.

What sets Rock River Arms apart from the competition is their versatility to produce and innovate weapons to such rigorous specifications.

The Rock River Arms PDS Pistol is the first of a new generation of firearms employing Rock River Arms’ patent-pending Piston Driven System (PDS).

Utilizing a purpose-designed bolt carrier, an adjustable gas piston and an over-the-barrel spring and guide rod arrangement, the Rock River Arms PDS is able to completely eliminate the traditional recoil system associated with AR-style firearms, making for an extremely versatile weapon platform. The design of the upper receiver and guide rod base prevents gas blow-by to the back of the receiver.

The two position adjustable regulator is conveniently positioned on the right side of the regulator housing.

The New PDS Pistol has a full length top mounting rail from the rear of the receiver to the regulator housing, allowing flexible placement of numerous optics, lights, lasers and other accessories. The folding ambidextrous, non-reciprocating charging handles may be used independently or in unison to charge the RRA PDS Pistol. The RRA PDS Pistol features a MS1913 rail on the rear receiver adaptor as well as an MS1913 rail on the regulator housing which allows sling or weapons mounting capabilities. The handguard features an integral Operator Safety Flange to help prevent support-hand movement/slippage towards the muzzle.

(Excerpt) Read more at ammoland.com ...


TOPICS: Miscellaneous; US: Illinois
KEYWORDS: arpistol; banglist
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Nice! A piston powered pistol. No buffer tube sticking out the back.
1 posted on 08/27/2010 9:30:33 PM PDT by smokingfrog
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To: smokingfrog

http://www.rockriverarms.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=category.display&category_id=441


2 posted on 08/27/2010 9:31:13 PM PDT by smokingfrog (freerepublic.com - Thanks JimRob! The flags are back! - 8/17/2010.)
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To: smokingfrog

That new Ruger clone AR is a piston job right?


3 posted on 08/27/2010 9:34:47 PM PDT by headstamp 2 ("My Boss is a Jewish Carpenter")
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To: smokingfrog

I never plan on letting them get that close.


4 posted on 08/27/2010 9:35:33 PM PDT by 3boysdad (Intellectualism is the new stupid!)
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To: headstamp 2

Yea. The Ruger has a piston.

Almost everyone makes a piston AR now.


5 posted on 08/27/2010 9:36:12 PM PDT by smokingfrog (freerepublic.com - Thanks JimRob! The flags are back! - 8/17/2010.)
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To: 3boysdad

But it’s great for drive-byze with yer homies.


6 posted on 08/27/2010 9:37:54 PM PDT by smokingfrog (freerepublic.com - Thanks JimRob! The flags are back! - 8/17/2010.)
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To: smokingfrog
Weight: 5 poundsHoly Crap! Soon to become another EBR .
7 posted on 08/27/2010 9:39:52 PM PDT by Clint N. Suhks (Palin: Obama lacks 'the cojones' to tackle immigration! (Palin/Cheney 2012)
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To: smokingfrog
Weight: 5 poundsHoly Crap! Soon to become another EBR .
8 posted on 08/27/2010 9:39:52 PM PDT by Clint N. Suhks (Palin: Obama lacks 'the cojones' to tackle immigration! (Palin/Cheney 2012)
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To: smokingfrog
Guns-and-Jesus-are-alright-with-me ping.

Frowning takes 68 muscles.
Smiling takes 6.
Pulling this trigger takes 2.
I'm lazy.

9 posted on 08/27/2010 9:45:52 PM PDT by The Comedian (Evil can only succeed if good men don't point at it and laugh.)
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To: smokingfrog

Now that’s an interesting design.


10 posted on 08/27/2010 9:47:11 PM PDT by 50cal Smokepole (Effective gun control involves effective recoil management)
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To: Clint N. Suhks

Guess you gotta use a smaller mag and hollow points to get the weight down. 5 lbs for a “pistol” is a bit much.


11 posted on 08/27/2010 9:49:52 PM PDT by 50cal Smokepole (Effective gun control involves effective recoil management)
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To: smokingfrog
Only about 6 years behind the times:

The Kel Tec PLR-16, a piston-driven, AR-style, 223 caliber pistol that takes standard AR magazines:

Typical "street" price is around $450, and it's just over 3 pounds - pretty light and low cost!

12 posted on 08/27/2010 9:59:45 PM PDT by PugetSoundSoldier (Indignation over the Sting of Truth is the defense of the indefensible)
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To: The Comedian
It's more like a 'machine pistol' ... think KelTec SR16 (?) but at $1300!


13 posted on 08/27/2010 10:01:03 PM PDT by MHGinTN (Dem voters, believing they cannot be deceived, it is impossible to convince them when deceived.)
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To: PugetSoundSoldier

Beat me by thiiiiiis much. LOL


14 posted on 08/27/2010 10:02:08 PM PDT by MHGinTN (Dem voters, believing they cannot be deceived, it is impossible to convince them when deceived.)
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To: PugetSoundSoldier

Definitely cheaper than the RR, but the sights look kind of cheezy. Of course, you could afford to buy an Aimpoint with the price difference.


15 posted on 08/27/2010 10:03:55 PM PDT by smokingfrog (freerepublic.com - Thanks JimRob! The flags are back! - 8/17/2010.)
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To: MHGinTN
Heheh... But you posted the most important differentiation:

$1300 for the RRA PDS

That's crazy expensive! You could get a PLR-16, AND a dozen, fully loaded PMAGS, AND still have enough left over to buy a Glock G17!

16 posted on 08/27/2010 10:05:58 PM PDT by PugetSoundSoldier (Indignation over the Sting of Truth is the defense of the indefensible)
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To: MHGinTN; PugetSoundSoldier

IMO these are not ‘pistols’...they are CQB SMGs.(non-auto in civilian versions)

Just my opinion...not saying they don’t have a place.


17 posted on 08/27/2010 10:08:10 PM PDT by Tainan (Cogito, ergo conservatus)
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To: PugetSoundSoldier

I’m saving for the ‘30’ in .22 mag.


18 posted on 08/27/2010 10:08:13 PM PDT by MHGinTN (Dem voters, believing they cannot be deceived, it is impossible to convince them when deceived.)
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To: smokingfrog

Of course, you don’t even GET sights with the RR...;) Yeah, for the difference, an Aimpoint, or a Magpul BUS set mount. And the extra $700 buys a LOT of ammunition or reloading supplies.


19 posted on 08/27/2010 10:09:27 PM PDT by PugetSoundSoldier (Indignation over the Sting of Truth is the defense of the indefensible)
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To: Tainan

I have one of the KelTec 9mm folding carbines. Right out of the box it shot four inch groups at ten yards. And I bought the Glock mag version so I could use 33 round mags with it. Thing folds up and carries in a book bag!


20 posted on 08/27/2010 10:10:30 PM PDT by MHGinTN (Dem voters, believing they cannot be deceived, it is impossible to convince them when deceived.)
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To: MHGinTN

Me too - the ultimate varmit pistol! Now if only it was also available in 22LR...;)


21 posted on 08/27/2010 10:10:57 PM PDT by PugetSoundSoldier (Indignation over the Sting of Truth is the defense of the indefensible)
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To: PugetSoundSoldier

starting to look like Han Solo’s blaster pistol....


22 posted on 08/27/2010 10:17:42 PM PDT by ak267
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To: MHGinTN
I've got one a Kel Tec SUB2000 as well, also in Glock mag:

For those not familiar with this folding carbine, the bag shown here is 17.5" wide, and that's six 17 round Glock 9mm magazines in there (since replaced with six of the 33 round magazines). The grip has another 17+2 (extension) magazine inserted.

Complete package is 18" wide, 4" thick, and 12" tall, weighs in at 8 pounds, and I have 217 rounds on tap.

Dial in your SUB, you should be getting 2" groups at 50 meters, once you get used to it. Plenty accurate for anything you'd want to really use such a carbine for.

And for others who poo-poo the 9mm, well, out of a 16" barrel you get a good bit of velocity (over 1500 fps with a 115 grain hollow point) and energy gain; you're packing around 600 lb-ft of muzzle energy, making it as powerful of a round as a 357 Magnum from a 4" barrel, something MOST people consider "adequate" for application against 2 legged vermin!

Also have a SUB-16A (a really light, folding rifle that uses AR magazines), and my daily carry is a P-32 because it's so stinking light, tiny, accurate, and amazingly reliable.

23 posted on 08/27/2010 10:22:23 PM PDT by PugetSoundSoldier (Indignation over the Sting of Truth is the defense of the indefensible)
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To: Tainan; MHGinTN; PugetSoundSoldier
Just my opinion...not saying they don’t have a place.

I agree.

A major problem with using rifle ammo in a pistol is that you waste a lot of powder in muzzle flash. You just do not have enough barrel length to get full burn of your powder load.

You can try to use a faster burning powder but then you end up prematurely eroding your barrel.

24 posted on 08/27/2010 10:29:03 PM PDT by Pontiac
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To: MHGinTN

I have to admit this is very sweet. But I keep thinking that when I get to this point I wan’t my 1911 in my hand. Besides, I can hold my carbine close to quarters and acheive the same effect.


25 posted on 08/27/2010 10:34:32 PM PDT by 3boysdad (Intellectualism is the new stupid!)
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To: Pontiac; Tainan; MHGinTN
Interesting data on barrel length versus velocity for the 223 cartridge. Even in a 10" barrel, you still get velocities in the 2500-2600 fps range, meaning it packs a LOT more energy (and a much flatter trajectory) that most other pistols (about twice the energy of a 45 ACP or hot loaded 9mm, and about equal to a 44 Magnum).

It wouldn't be my choice for use (I prefer my SUB2000, a sweetheart to shoot with nearly zero recoil, almost no muzzle flash or blast), but the little pistols serve a purpose. Having 30+ rounds on tap - with easy to use, commonly available 30 round spare magazines - makes it well suited for many purposes. In a package that fits nicely under your arm.

Think of it as a little bigger version of the 44 Magnum revolver that Dirty Harry used, just with 5 times the ammo capacity! :)

26 posted on 08/27/2010 10:38:42 PM PDT by PugetSoundSoldier (Indignation over the Sting of Truth is the defense of the indefensible)
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To: smokingfrog

BATF will be on this like a bird on a June Bug.


27 posted on 08/27/2010 10:39:06 PM PDT by GladesGuru (In a society predicated upon freedom, it is essential to examine principles,)
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To: smokingfrog
Rock River Arms has the reputation for producing top quality AR15s.

LOL! Rock River Arms is about as bottom of the barrel as you can get quality wise. Nothing like inventing your own PR.

28 posted on 08/27/2010 10:44:42 PM PDT by killjoy (Life sucks, wear a helmet.)
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To: PugetSoundSoldier

I think I would slap an Eotech on there, or forget sights altogether and just use a laser. I wonder what the effective range of that short barrel is?


29 posted on 08/27/2010 10:45:21 PM PDT by smokingfrog (freerepublic.com - Thanks JimRob! The flags are back! - 8/17/2010.)
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To: smokingfrog

Just slap this EOTech 557 on there and the “cheese” is gone!

http://www.uscav.com/productinfo.aspx?productid=16213&TabID=548&cs=1


30 posted on 08/27/2010 10:45:43 PM PDT by G Larry (Democrats: expediting the Destruction of America, before they lose power...)
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To: smokingfrog

Make it in .308 and we’ll talk.


31 posted on 08/27/2010 10:47:45 PM PDT by dagogo redux (A whiff of primitive spirits in the air, harbingers of an impending descent into the feral.)
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To: smokingfrog

I thought about picking up a 1955 Russian SKS last weekend.

Yup. I thought about it.

I did think about it!


32 posted on 08/27/2010 10:49:09 PM PDT by djf (They ain't "immigrants". They're "CRIMMIGRANTS"!!!!)
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To: smokingfrog
I think I would slap an Eotech on there, or forget sights altogether and just use a laser. I wonder what the effective range of that short barrel is?

Well, a 10" barrel means you still are around 2600 fps, so the effective range should still be 150 meters or so. I'd go with some nice MBUS units as I'm usually pretty good with iron sites on long pistols out to 70-80 meters. But a nice Barska holosight would be cool too!

33 posted on 08/27/2010 10:54:33 PM PDT by PugetSoundSoldier (Indignation over the Sting of Truth is the defense of the indefensible)
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To: killjoy

“...LOL! Rock River Arms is about as bottom of the barrel as you can get quality wise...”

Says who?!?!?!?


34 posted on 08/27/2010 10:58:26 PM PDT by chadwimc (Proud to be an infidel ! Allah fubar !!!)
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To: PugetSoundSoldier

The RRA only has an 8 inch barrel with a 1:9 twist.

Maybe good for 5 or 6 inch groups at 100 meters?


35 posted on 08/27/2010 11:00:37 PM PDT by smokingfrog (freerepublic.com - Thanks JimRob! The flags are back! - 8/17/2010.)
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To: PugetSoundSoldier
Even in a 10" barrel, you still get velocities in the 2500-2600 fps range

That is one thing I looked for and did not find in the article. No mention of barrel length.

It did say that the overall length was 17 inches, so I did guess at an 8 to 10 inch barrel.

I all so looked at the pistol and noted that there was no place for the recoil absorber spring. I thought ouch, that’s gotta hurt!

36 posted on 08/27/2010 11:05:54 PM PDT by Pontiac
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To: PugetSoundSoldier

Can you get a holster for it?


37 posted on 08/27/2010 11:08:32 PM PDT by Secret Agent Man (I'd like to tell you, but then I'd have to kill you.)
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To: chadwimc
Says who?!?!?!?

Go run a few thousand rounds through one and let me know if it is still in one piece.

38 posted on 08/27/2010 11:13:53 PM PDT by killjoy (Life sucks, wear a helmet.)
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To: Secret Agent Man
Why yes, yes there is!
39 posted on 08/27/2010 11:14:39 PM PDT by PugetSoundSoldier (Indignation over the Sting of Truth is the defense of the indefensible)
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To: Pontiac; smokingfrog

I was assuming 10”; I know the Kel Tec is 9.2” with a 1:9 twist. Maybe the RR is about the same? It’s pretty accurate (3” groups, slow fire rate) at 100 meters, thanks to the light and fast bullets...


40 posted on 08/27/2010 11:17:55 PM PDT by PugetSoundSoldier (Indignation over the Sting of Truth is the defense of the indefensible)
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To: killjoy
Sort of like that brand new Colt HBAR with such a sloppy fit between upper and lower that it rattled during normal handling?

My .308 DPMS is so tight I have to work to get the halves to separate. A bit of difference in tolerances...........

41 posted on 08/27/2010 11:25:32 PM PDT by doorgunner69
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To: PugetSoundSoldier
I did find it.

8” barrel 1 in 9 twist.

Any guess at what muzzle velocity would be?

Maybe 1600 to 1800 fps?

42 posted on 08/27/2010 11:35:29 PM PDT by Pontiac
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To: doorgunner69

How do you like your DPMS 308? Which version?
What did it set you back?


43 posted on 08/28/2010 12:47:57 AM PDT by STD (Witnessing Another Greek Tragedy as Our Chief Executive Implodes.)
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To: doorgunner69
Sort of like that brand new Colt HBAR with such a sloppy fit between upper and lower that it rattled during normal handling?

Fit between upper and lower doesn't matter to me. I am interested in fighting guns that are reliable. Rock River isn't.

44 posted on 08/28/2010 2:55:40 AM PDT by killjoy (Life sucks, wear a helmet.)
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To: 3boysdad

Ah, yes. But in battle nothing ever goes as planned.

Nice to have IF they get that close........

IMHO.

arlis


45 posted on 08/28/2010 3:02:00 AM PDT by Arlis (- Virginia loghome/woods-dweller/Jesus lovin'/Bible-totin'/"gun-clinger")
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To: PugetSoundSoldier

Bushmaster Carbon 15
http://www.bushmaster.com/catalog_carbon15_AZ-C15P97.asp
Weight w/o magazine: 46 oz. (2.88 lbs.) [1.31 kg]
Weight of empty magazine: .25 lbs [.11 kg]
Weight of loaded magazine: 1.0 lbs. [.45 kg]


46 posted on 08/28/2010 3:08:52 AM PDT by rickb308 (Muslims need to check with Native Americans & ask how that whole cowboys & indians thing worked out.)
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To: killjoy

Says who?!?!?!?

“...Go run a few thousand rounds through one and let me know if it is still in one piece...”

Been there, done that. The one I’m shooting now has about 4,000 rounds through it. The vanilla, A2 model has about the same. You must sell Vulcan ARs...


47 posted on 08/28/2010 4:06:20 AM PDT by chadwimc (Proud to be an infidel ! Allah fubar !!!)
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To: PugetSoundSoldier
Looks like a broomhandle mauser on steroids.

CC

48 posted on 08/28/2010 4:52:12 AM PDT by Celtic Conservative (ostende mihi pecuniam!)
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To: Pontiac
Any guess at what muzzle velocity would be?

Based on this data, it would probably end up with a velocity around 2540 fps. Seems like you lose about 50 fps per inch, pretty consistently. The 9.2" barrel of the Kel Tec has been reliabily chrono'd at 2600 fps, so subtract 50-60 fps for the 8" barrel of the RR.

49 posted on 08/28/2010 9:01:14 AM PDT by PugetSoundSoldier (Indignation over the Sting of Truth is the defense of the indefensible)
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To: Pontiac
A major problem with using rifle ammo in a pistol is that you waste a lot of powder in muzzle flash. You just do not have enough barrel length to get full burn of your powder load.

One of my brothers has an amt automag III (.30 carbine) inherited from our father. That thing is the loudest firearm I have ever heard, with a huge muzzle flash(great ball of fire!). I finally figured out that this is caused by the large amount of unburned powder mixing with the air, and then igniting. In essence, it's a small fuel-air bomb.

On the fourth of July we were all out shooting for fun. At one point, three of us with .22's and my nephew with the automag. It sounded like this-

"pap"- "pap"- "pap"- *POOOOOOOM!!!!*

I still laugh thinking about it. :)

P.S.- ran into that brother at a gun show last month- he was stocking up on .30 carbine ammo, cause he likes the noise :)

50 posted on 08/28/2010 9:05:43 AM PDT by TexasBarak (I canceled a subscription, and used the money to become a monthly donor instead!)
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