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New military rifle lighter, more powerful
NBC13 ^ | 09-29-2010 | Staff

Posted on 09/04/2010 8:10:09 AM PDT by em2vn

It was designed with input by U.S. Special Operations Command warriors for special ops missions to be lighter, more maneuverable and longer lasting.

Earlier this month, the MK-17 – dubbed the SCAR by its Belgian manufacturer FNH – went into "full rate production" making it the first new assault carbine to be purchased by the U.S. military since the M-16 and M-4 rifles went online four decades ago. The rifle is expected to be particularly valuable in situations like those faced by soldiers fighting in Afghanistan, where the weapon's additional range will provide a significant upgrade.

(Excerpt) Read more at 2.nbc13.com ...


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs
KEYWORDS: 556762mk17; assaultrifle; banglist; kalashnikov; sturmgewehr
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To: Spok
The 5.56mm is proving less effective in the open country of Afghanistan than it did in the jungle in SE Asia...

The difference between a 14.5 inch and a 20 inch barrel.

51 posted on 09/04/2010 9:48:54 AM PDT by gundog (Why is it that useful idiots remain idiots long after they've exhausted their usefulness?)
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To: ops33

The year 1906...last time it was modified. Round uf -03 was 220 grain RN, I believe.


52 posted on 09/04/2010 9:52:31 AM PDT by gundog (Why is it that useful idiots remain idiots long after they've exhausted their usefulness?)
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To: em2vn
It has three interchangeable barrels. It will be able to fire two different caliber bullets.

This is from the link above.

Three interchangeable barrels!?!

Oh yeah. I gotta get me one of these babies!!!

53 posted on 09/04/2010 9:57:32 AM PDT by airborne (Why is it we won't allow the Bible in school, but we will in prison? Think about it.)
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To: PapaBear3625
You can make ammo with faster-burning powder, intermediate between rifle and pistol powder.

And why don't they always do that? Because burning all of the powder in a 7.62x51 cartridge in 14" would do two things:

1. Increase pressures to the point that you would need a 14 pound receiver to handle it.

2. Burn up the barrel in about 300 rounds.

That's why they don't pack cartridges full of C4.

54 posted on 09/04/2010 10:00:08 AM PDT by SampleMan (If all of the people currently oppressed shared a common geography, bullets would already be flying.)
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To: Calvinist_Dark_Lord

EXCELLENT LINK!


55 posted on 09/04/2010 10:01:07 AM PDT by airborne (Why is it we won't allow the Bible in school, but we will in prison? Think about it.)
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To: ReeseBN38416

20” is already very short in my book. I very much doubt that any tactical advantage of losing 7” of barrel makes up for the expense and logistics tree of having that option. And with any gas operated gun, barrel length changes affect operation. Yes ports can be changed, but that is a compromise, not an optimization.


56 posted on 09/04/2010 10:03:13 AM PDT by SampleMan (If all of the people currently oppressed shared a common geography, bullets would already be flying.)
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To: SampleMan

May be a dumb question, why not make our own version of an ak-47? It’s obviously been proven to be good under adverse conditions and stuff...just asking.


57 posted on 09/04/2010 10:08:13 AM PDT by Mmogamer (I refudiate the lamestream media, leftists and their prevaricutions.)
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To: Mmogamer

The Kalashnikov action could be used to produce a really space-age carbine, even with a plastic or aluminum receiver. They aren’t as accurate because of the loose tolerances and simple, massive parts (which is what makes them so reliable in the sand). I doubt if we will ever see the US adopt a Soviet weapon design just because it would be politically unthinkable. If you look at recent pics and vids from Iraq, you can see several of our soldiers are carrying AKs over there, so they must like them.


58 posted on 09/04/2010 10:14:34 AM PDT by Sender (It's never too late to be who you could have been.)
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To: Chode

Looks like fun!


59 posted on 09/04/2010 10:29:02 AM PDT by proudofthesouth (It is impossible to rightly govern a nation without God and the Bible - President George Washington)
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To: proudofthesouth
absolutely... 8^)
60 posted on 09/04/2010 10:38:54 AM PDT by Chode (American Hedonist *DTOM* -ww- NO Pity for the LAZY)
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To: em2vn

Not ot be confused with the Mk.17

http://www.thexhunters.com/xpeditions/mk-17_aircraft.html


61 posted on 09/04/2010 10:56:15 AM PDT by wolfcreek (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lsd7DGqVSIc)
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To: em2vn

“Assault carbine”

It’ll never end.


62 posted on 09/04/2010 11:00:22 AM PDT by wastedyears (Iron Maiden's new album in the top 5 in the US. Incredible)
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To: ops33
I know it is a 30 calibre round but what does the .06 mean?

It's the year it was adopted for general military use, 1906.

63 posted on 09/04/2010 11:05:24 AM PDT by Lurker (The avalanche has begun. The pebbles no longer have a vote.)
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To: Chode

Me too!


64 posted on 09/04/2010 11:08:24 AM PDT by MHGinTN (Dem voters, believing they cannot be deceived, it is impossible to convince them when deceived.)
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To: stumpjumper

Don’t forget the russian cousins, 7.6s x 39 and 7.62 x 54R.

I love the SKS and the Mosin-Nagant.


65 posted on 09/04/2010 11:37:12 AM PDT by hotshu (Keep the Faith, that's all 0bama and his fellow traitors can't steal from us.e)
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To: hotshu

7.62 x39! sheesh!


66 posted on 09/04/2010 11:43:20 AM PDT by hotshu (Keep the Faith, that's all 0bama and his fellow traitors can't steal from us.e)
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To: tlb
Interesting looking weapon but really must the wheel be re-invented? Wouldn’t a cut back M14 but with a new lighter stock served as well.

EXACTLY! Trust the Military Industrial Complex to figure out yet another way to suck the $$$ from our wallets to line theirs. What a bunch of maroons.

67 posted on 09/04/2010 12:07:03 PM PDT by ExSoldier (Democracy is 2 wolves and a lamb voting on dinner. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote.)
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To: tlb

“Wouldn’t a cut back M14 but with a new lighter stock served as well.”

Springfield Armory makes a short M1A (semi-auto-only M-14) called the SOCCOM 16. I swear I’ve seen a photo of one with a selector switch too.


68 posted on 09/04/2010 12:10:07 PM PDT by PLMerite (Fix the clock. It's time.)
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To: Calvinist_Dark_Lord; Squantos; Eaker; B4Ranch; Shooter 2.5; wardaddy; Joe Brower; Travis McGee
It appears that this weapon will also fire 7.62 x 39mm ammunition from the AK-47.

I don't get it. Each of those calibers (5.56x45, 7.62x39 and 7.62x51) will require a different magazine and a different barrel to function. Are military units going to carry all of those? What will the unit armorers concentrate on? The 7.62x39 isn't even a NATO standard round. Supply is going to be a PITA and for what?

69 posted on 09/04/2010 12:11:50 PM PDT by ExSoldier (Democracy is 2 wolves and a lamb voting on dinner. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote.)
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To: SampleMan
"20” is already very short in my book. I very much doubt that any tactical advantage of losing 7” of barrel makes up for the expense and logistics tree of having that option."

In the tests that I have seen regarding the 16" barrel on the SOCOM M1A, the performance of the .308 through that length barrel was similar to 300 Savage (150 gr at 2600fps). The big tradeoff for the handiness of the shorter package was significantly increased muzzle blast and noise. And who is giving up 7" of barrel length? The SCAR has a 20" barrel option. The M14 barrel is 22" long.

70 posted on 09/04/2010 12:16:41 PM PDT by ReeseBN38416
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To: SampleMan; Squantos; humblegunner
That's why they don't pack cartridges full of C4.

Hand loads.

5.56x45-C4

Sent a bunch to Squantos, don't know if he has fired any though.

71 posted on 09/04/2010 1:00:55 PM PDT by Eaker (Pablo is very wily)
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To: ReeseBN38416
i own both, the M1-A i bought in 87 and the SOCOM last May

i also have two HK-91's and an FN, and if i have to walk out the door, it'll be with the SOCOM...

72 posted on 09/04/2010 1:07:04 PM PDT by Chode (American Hedonist *DTOM* -ww- NO Pity for the LAZY)
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To: Joe Boucher
Here is an excerpt from the Article:

"For years, the M16 and M4 have been the mainstay assault weapons of the special forces. Now Socom has a new assault rifle, the MK-17. Not only does it fire a larger caliber projectile that is deadlier at longer distances, but it has an interchangable barrel that allows it to be used for everything from close-range fighting to sniper fire."

The SOCOM warrior does not want to carry multiple weapons on a mission that may entail close quarters combat as well as long distance shooting.

73 posted on 09/04/2010 1:25:52 PM PDT by verity
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To: 101voodoo
Or, God forbid, they us the word "is". As in "New military rifle is lighter, more powerful."

Thanks in large part to Fox, use of any form of the verb "to be" is a sin these days in newsrooms across the nation.

Scouts Out! Cavalry Ho!

74 posted on 09/04/2010 1:39:50 PM PDT by wku man (Steel yourselves, patriots, and be ready. Won't be long now....)
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To: wku man
"us" = "use". Proofreading is my friend!

Scouts Out! Cavalry Ho!

75 posted on 09/04/2010 1:41:09 PM PDT by wku man (Steel yourselves, patriots, and be ready. Won't be long now....)
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To: Joe Boucher

I don’t care what you have.

All I want is for your kid to be in my squad when the SHTF.

:)


76 posted on 09/04/2010 1:47:36 PM PDT by 2111USMC
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To: Eaker

Are the blocks of C4 on the top shelf at gun shop?


77 posted on 09/04/2010 1:50:25 PM PDT by SampleMan (If all of the people currently oppressed shared a common geography, bullets would already be flying.)
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To: gundog
The difference between a 14.5 inch and a 20 inch barrel.

And 400 yard shots vice 50 yard shots.

78 posted on 09/04/2010 1:51:26 PM PDT by SampleMan (If all of the people currently oppressed shared a common geography, bullets would already be flying.)
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To: SampleMan

Of course so gunner and Squantos can’t reach them!


79 posted on 09/04/2010 1:56:24 PM PDT by Eaker (Pablo is very wily)
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To: hotshu
I love the SKS and the Mosin-Nagant.

I think the SKS is a near perfect gun. The AK-47 is cheaper to build, but its not as well made. I think that carrying and using strippers is better and faster than box mags. 90 rounds of stripped SKS ammo can go in a coat pocket, but three 30 round AK mags are quite bulky. The 7.62x39 is also a fanstastic round.

80 posted on 09/04/2010 1:58:35 PM PDT by SampleMan (If all of the people currently oppressed shared a common geography, bullets would already be flying.)
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To: Calvinist_Dark_Lord

I have a Colt 7.62x39 upper to match my Colt match target Elite and I’ve had it well over a decade.


81 posted on 09/04/2010 4:13:26 PM PDT by mcshot (Who is the power behind the MSM that is trying to take-down our Country?)
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To: Joe Boucher
You shouldn't mention the Saiga 12 without a picture. Mine:


82 posted on 09/04/2010 4:18:24 PM PDT by CholeraJoe (Inexpensive, timely, accurate. Pick two for your healthcare, Obama.)
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To: ExSoldier
I don't get it. Each of those calibers (5.56x45, 7.62x39 and 7.62x51) will require a different magazine and a different barrel to function. Are military units going to carry all of those? What will the unit armorers concentrate on? The 7.62x39 isn't even a NATO standard round. Supply is going to be a PITA and for what?

From the article linked in post 15:

Initial SOF requirements included two basic versions of SCAR system - the SCAR Light (SCAR-L), available in 5.56mm NATO, and the SCAR heavy (SCAR-H), which should be initially available in significantly more powerful 7.62x51 NATO chambering, and should be easily adaptable in the field to other chamberings. These other chamberings initially include the well-spread 7.62x39 M43 ammunition of the Soviet / Russian origins, and probably some others (like the proposed 6.8x43 Remington SPC cartridge, especially developed for US Special Forces). The key idea of SCAR rifle system is that it will provide the Special Forces operators with wide variety of options, from short-barreled 5.56mm SCAR-L CQC variation, tailored for urban close combat, and up to long range 7.62x51 SCAR-H Sniper variant, as well as 7.62x39 SCAR-H, which will accept "battlefield pickup" AK-47/AKM magazines with 7.62 M43 ammunition, available during the operations behind the enemy lines.

The 7.62 x 39mm is an East block round. It is used in the AK-47 that just about all of the people we're opposing have at the moment. Would be nice to pick up and use their own ammo against them, eh?

83 posted on 09/04/2010 4:52:25 PM PDT by Calvinist_Dark_Lord ((I have come here to kick @$$ and chew bubblegum...and I'm all outta bubblegum! ~Roddy Piper))
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To: elcid1970

LOL..... Thanks for the years of service .

40 ....wow !


84 posted on 09/04/2010 5:08:53 PM PDT by Squantos (Be polite. Be professional. But have a plan to kill everyone you meet)
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To: xkaydet65

Bell curve union workers with a dose of high tax base tossed in is my first guess.

I own no new lawyer designed firearms made in the USA.

That’s my swag on the matter...:o)


85 posted on 09/04/2010 5:23:55 PM PDT by Squantos (Be polite. Be professional. But have a plan to kill everyone you meet)
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To: Eaker

That’s my carry load......


86 posted on 09/04/2010 5:25:19 PM PDT by Squantos (Be polite. Be professional. But have a plan to kill everyone you meet)
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To: Mmogamer; Joe Boucher
Short range cartridge, not very accurate. And the AK works as well as it does because it is a very sloppy fitting gun with large parts. Newest issue of American Rifleman has an article by a guy went to some DoD school to study weapons likely to be encountered in the field. They learned to strip, fire, etc.

Said they watched a slo-mo video of an AK being fired with the top cover off. Apparently the spring, bolt, and all thrashing and flexing around was a sight to behold.

They also studied the vaunted Dragunov, were told it is a 5 MOA gun, Difference between what is a sniper to us is not the same for Russia, where simply putting a round into the body is sufficient precision. I tagged Joe Boucher on this, as he mentioned his son has improved his Dragunov from a 5 MOA gun to one capable of about 0.2 MOA. I ain't calling BS, but you got to wonder..........

87 posted on 09/04/2010 6:08:16 PM PDT by doorgunner69
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To: Squantos

Thanks, man, but there was a break in service; I missed Desert Shield/Desert Storm but got reappointed in 1994 so it’s more like thirty two years total as of January 2011.

So glad I got to serve in a time when the US military is once again respected. Got deployed in 2003 and received the nice welcome back. Not like 1972, believe me. I’m blessed to be part of the mission this late in life.

And these young soldiers who keep deploying and deploying again and the ones who survive with horrible wounds and disabilities and are so cheerful they bring tears to my eyes I am so honored to serve in their time at this late date I’ll be 62 next month I don’t know what more to say our soldiers are so wonderful they are a blessing upon America!


88 posted on 09/04/2010 6:26:59 PM PDT by elcid1970 ("O Muslim! My bullets are dipped in pig grease!")
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To: Calvinist_Dark_Lord
The 7.62 x 39mm is an East block round. It is used in the AK-47 that just about all of the people we're opposing have at the moment. Would be nice to pick up and use their own ammo against them, eh?

I guess, but will the troops have to qualify on each round? Each will have different firing characteristics and a different point of impact at different ranges. If you wanted to simply spray and pray in a firefight why not just pick up a dropped enemy weapon or pick it up off a dead enemy and shoot? Seems unnecessary to me.

Now, I can see having the capability to shift between 5.56 and 7.62 x 51 with a barrel change to go along. That would shift the effort from an assault rifle in the 5.56 to a possible designated marksman in the heavier load and longer barrel. That makes up for the middle ground between the rifleman and the sniper.

The rifleman covers the area from the muzzle out to about 300 meters. The sniper engages at 700 to 1000+ meters. The new category of "designated marksman" (born of combat necessity) covers the ranges from between 300 and 700 meters. That is the perfect operating range for the .308 Winchester with only minimal training.

89 posted on 09/04/2010 6:40:24 PM PDT by ExSoldier (Democracy is 2 wolves and a lamb voting on dinner. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote.)
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To: em2vn

Two calibers seems like a good idea, but essentially it means that you now get to carry twice as much ammo.


90 posted on 09/04/2010 7:46:08 PM PDT by Blood of Tyrants (Islam is the religion of Satan and Mohammed was his minion.)
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To: doorgunner69

My kid has been in to guns forever.
He likes the AK style because of exactly what you say, you can put it under water, throw it in sand and it will still fire, unlike the M-16 in Viet Nam that had a habit of getting stuck with one or two grains of sand.
When he got his saiga it would not fire cheap 12 ga. shells.
Researched it and opened some exhaust ports to allow for other than high brass expensive shells to be shot.
With his dragovov he imported a night scope, better firing mech. and trigger. I believe a 1/2 popund pull as opposed to three. Not sure what all else.
Then to make it legal he had to include at least three American made parts, Stock, etc.
To learn about it he went on line and used an russian to english conversion program so he could read about the guns he’’s bought on line from the foormer soviet block. Then he started buying 1000 rounds from same that is delivered home.
We usually go to the rifle range in Sebastian Florida, as good a range as you can find. Has a two hundred yard target.
As for real long shooting we simply shoot wild hogs on the 4000 foot runway we live on.
B.S.?
Ok pal, think what you may.


91 posted on 09/05/2010 3:09:56 AM PDT by Joe Boucher ((FUBO) ")
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To: xkaydet65

Simple answer: Our production capabilities have long ago been given away to China, Taiwan, and...anywhere but here.

You’ve been sold on the BS global economy concept. Think about it...Staples, Office Depot, Office Max...everything is about “office” and not tooling and production.

In WWII, we overwhelmed German technology with our ability to make so much so fast. Could we do that today?


92 posted on 09/05/2010 3:50:33 AM PDT by scottfactor
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To: gundog

Thank you very much.


93 posted on 09/05/2010 6:04:26 AM PDT by ops33 (Senior Master Sergeant, USAF (Retired))
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To: Lurker

Thank you very much. Strange that this would be the only size round used by the military that would have the date modified as how it is referrenced.


94 posted on 09/05/2010 6:05:28 AM PDT by ops33 (Senior Master Sergeant, USAF (Retired))
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To: ExSoldier
I guess, but will the troops have to qualify on each round? Each will have different firing characteristics and a different point of impact at different ranges. If you wanted to simply spray and pray in a firefight why not just pick up a dropped enemy weapon or pick it up off a dead enemy and shoot? Seems unnecessary to me.

Remember, this thing started off life as a SOCOM weapon. Resupply of an ODA can be a tricky business depending on their circumstances. So the ability to use indigenous weapons and ammo can be of a great benefit to such soldiers.

You do bring up a good point about using the opposition's weapons, but again remember the characteristics of the AK-47. While it is dependable, and fires under extreme conditions that the soldier encounters in the field, it isn't a very accurate weapon. This is due to the loose tolerances that are used to achieve the advantage of dependability. Designated marksman capability would deteriorate, let alone sniper capability.

Sniper capability is going to be attenuated anyway under those conditions in that the availability of match grade ammo used in such weapons might not exist.

This is a case of the military planning for every situation. Perhaps they got it right this time.

As a stop gap, i don't know why the Army didn't go back to the M-16A2 for Afghanistan. It has a lot longer range than M-4. The M-4 worked well enough for Iraq, but combat in Afghanistan is a different situation.

My boy used an M-25 when he wasn't stuck on an M-240 or Ma Duce aboard an MRAP on convoys. He got his Bronze Star doing things best not remembered with an M-25

95 posted on 09/05/2010 7:00:24 AM PDT by Calvinist_Dark_Lord ((I have come here to kick @$$ and chew bubblegum...and I'm all outta bubblegum! ~Roddy Piper))
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To: Calvinist_Dark_Lord
I am pretty sure it has a gas piston system not a blowback like the M-4. If you own an Ar look into retroing a gas piston to it. Awesome modification.
96 posted on 09/05/2010 7:03:12 AM PDT by mad_as_he$$ (Playing by the rules only works if both sides do it!)
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To: mad_as_he$$

Thanks for the 411 on the AR-15. i’ll look into it. Got more pressing things to spend my $$ on at the moment though.

Lately, i’ve been playing with the SKS. IMO, it’s a much better weapon than the AK-47. It’s a lot more accurate, or maybe i just got one that was put together better.


97 posted on 09/05/2010 7:19:14 AM PDT by Calvinist_Dark_Lord ((I have come here to kick @$$ and chew bubblegum...and I'm all outta bubblegum! ~Roddy Piper))
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To: ops33
Strange that this would be the only size round used by the military that would have the date modified as how it is referrenced.

It is, but that's the way we used to designate them. For instance the famous 1911 pistol is known as that because of the year it was adopted for military use. But that's just the pistol, not the cartridge. We don't call it the "45-11".

That's also how the AK-47 got it's moniker. The full name of it is "Avtomat Kalishnikov 1947" or "Automatic Rifle, Kalishnikov, Year of 1947".

Best,

L

98 posted on 09/05/2010 9:12:02 AM PDT by Lurker (The avalanche has begun. The pebbles no longer have a vote.)
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To: scottfactor

I agree about our industrial loss to China et al in a general way. But don’t we still make superb hunting rifles in this country?Beyond hunting rifles, I’ve looked at the Springfield Arms improvements and upgrades in the old M14 and they look damn good. And we are also talking design. Everything Apple makes is designed here. Don’t we still have excellent firearm designers?


99 posted on 09/05/2010 10:31:46 AM PDT by xkaydet65
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To: Lurker

Thank you very much.


100 posted on 09/05/2010 1:40:38 PM PDT by ops33 (Senior Master Sergeant, USAF (Retired))
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