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19 Surprising Facts About the Deindustrialization of America
Seeking Alpha ^ | 09-26-2010 | Michael T. Snyder

Posted on 09/26/2010 4:44:23 AM PDT by RS_Rider

The United States is rapidly becoming the very first "post-industrial" nation on the globe. All great economic empires eventually become fat and lazy and squander the great wealth that their forefathers have left them, but the pace at which America is accomplishing this is absolutely amazing.

It was America that was at the forefront of the industrial revolution. It was America that showed the world how to mass produce everything from automobiles, to televisions, to airplanes. It was the great American manufacturing base that crushed Germany and Japan in World War II.

But now we are witnessing the deindustrialization of America. Tens of thousands of factories have left the United States in the past decade alone. Millions upon millions of manufacturing jobs have been lost in the same time period. The United States has become a nation that consumes everything in sight and yet produces increasingly little.

Do you know what our biggest export is today? Waste paper. Yes, trash is the number one thing that we ship out to the rest of the world as we voraciously blow our money on whatever the rest of the world wants to sell to us. The United States has become bloated and spoiled and our economy is now just a shadow of what it once was.

Once upon a time America could literally outproduce the rest of the world combined. Today that is no longer true, but Americans sure do consume more than anyone else in the world. If the deindustrialization of America continues at this current pace, what possible kind of a future are we going to be leaving to our children?

(Excerpt) Read more at seekingalpha.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy
KEYWORDS: americaforsale; deindustrialization; economy; endofamerica; environmentalism; greenjobs; industry; postindustrial; taxes
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At first I thought this article was going to list the benefits of the loss of our industries, no so, interesting and frightening.
1 posted on 09/26/2010 4:44:29 AM PDT by RS_Rider
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To: RS_Rider

The single greatest enemy of industrialization is unionism.


2 posted on 09/26/2010 4:56:05 AM PDT by Louis Foxwell (They are the vultures of Dark Crystal screeeching their hatred and fear into the void ....)
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To: Amos the Prophet

Overunionization, overtaxation, and overregulation are paralyzing us.


3 posted on 09/26/2010 5:01:53 AM PDT by cripplecreek (Remember the River Raisin! (look it up))
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To: RS_Rider

The company I work for is hamstrung by mandated political correctness including diversity programs, environmental programs, and safety programs. Even though we’re a clean electronic assembler we’re terrified of the various federal, state, and local EPA organizations; any one of which can instantly shut us down. (Recently, a fire sprinkler head leaked a dime-sized drop of rusted water. You’d have thought it was purified plutonium. Somebody had to stand beside it while someone else ran for the “danger, wet floor” cone. Then, they had to have a “qualified” person wipe it up.)

We haven’t had an OSHA inspection lately, but we certainly get about two hours of irrelevant (to us) OSHA lectures a year.

Then, there’s legal liability. It’s not a matter of whether you’re going to be sued. It’s a matter when. As I understand it, the company is in court somewhere in the country basically all year around.

These are all problems brought to us by our government. If you examine the regulations on the micro-scale, they mostly make sense. But on the large scale and all combined, they kill industry. I know if I wanted to start a business, I couldn’t do it here. I have owned two companies, and I had to abandon the second because the taxes (fees) cost me more than I made. I think I could have pulled it off given more time, but the government wants its money for the privilege of doing business in their fair state NOW.


4 posted on 09/26/2010 5:02:20 AM PDT by Gen.Blather
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To: Amos the Prophet

Environmentalism is running a very close second if not sprinting to the lead.


5 posted on 09/26/2010 5:02:46 AM PDT by RS_Rider (I hate Illinois Nazis)
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To: Amos the Prophet

No it is not. Laws and regulations are. Many non-union manufactures have left the U.S.


6 posted on 09/26/2010 5:04:02 AM PDT by MCF
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To: RS_Rider
I try to analyze and understand a lot of things political and social, but I must admit the human condition is too complex at times.

Having said that, I think every economic problem in America is primarilly due to taxation.

In my opinion, taxes should be levied and used for basic social needs; police, fireman, needed politicians, and the infrastructure(s) that are necesarry for the aforementioned services.

Franklin's library has seen it's day, so IT can go (as an example and an etc.)

I wish I was patient enough to try and collect the data to break down what is taken in taxes and what is needed to operate society and compare/contrast the two.

I honestly think (with no real data to support my thought) we can operate from a very small tax burden.

7 posted on 09/26/2010 5:05:20 AM PDT by knarf (I say things that are true ... I have no proof ... but they're true)
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To: Amos the Prophet

Ironically American industry has responded to the challenge of unions, by exporting our factories to the largest organized labor union in human history:

The Peoples Republic of China.


8 posted on 09/26/2010 5:08:40 AM PDT by Cringing Negativism Network (GOP establishment are dinosaurs. Tea Party is a great big asteroid...)
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To: RS_Rider
At first I thought this article was going to list the benefits of the loss of our industries, no so, interesting and frightening.

That's because there ARE NO benefits to losing our industries.

A "service based" economy is an economy in decline.

The polidiots in Washington keep pushing for more consumption...
but as a nation, we can't keep consuming more than what we produce.
That's what's causing our collapse.

9 posted on 09/26/2010 5:11:38 AM PDT by Willie Green (Some people march to a different drummer ~ and some people polka.)
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To: RS_Rider
From what I had seen over the decades, this is true to a point. Automation plays a bigger role than the article credits. At one department, we had about twenty assemblers and solderers on a production line that ran two shifts. We bought ONE small pick-and-place machine and a wave solderer. Within a year we had five people working one shift, producing twice as much product at many times the profit. Robots don't drink coffee, smoke, or use the bathroom. They DO get sick once in a while, but are usually repaired quickly, and Health Insurance is not involved. Yes,we have lost much of our manufacturing base, tragically. But some of that lost capacity is capacity that should have and would have been lost anyway.

Some was lost for other reasons. I bought new brake rotors for a GM car years ago. They were cast in Mexico. Because foundries made smoke and were stinky and killed spotted owls and whales and the work was too hard and hot and stuff.

10 posted on 09/26/2010 5:11:42 AM PDT by Gorzaloon (CNN:AP:etc:Today, President Obama's stool was firm and well-formed. One end was slightly pointed. ")
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To: RS_Rider
Environmentalism is running a very close second if not sprinting to the lead.

I totally agree,with crp and wrp government programs are taking some of our most productive acres out of production ,

11 posted on 09/26/2010 5:17:37 AM PDT by piroque (it is better to perish than to live as slaves.)
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To: knarf
In my opinion, taxes should be levied and used for basic social needs; police, fireman, needed politicians, and the infrastructure(s) that are necesarry for the aforementioned services.

The problems started when the Federal gubmint deviated from their role of promoting domestic tranquility to trying to provide domestic tranquility. The failure has been epic.....for everyone except the politicians, who continue to enrich themselves at taxpayer expense.....

12 posted on 09/26/2010 5:20:24 AM PDT by Thermalseeker (Stop the insanity - Flush Congress!)
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To: Amos the Prophet

The Union members are now figuring out that those at the top are the only ones who are benefiting from this relationship, at least in the private sector......


13 posted on 09/26/2010 5:25:09 AM PDT by Shady (Liberty will not be trampeled on by the Government, those that do, LOSE!)
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To: Toddsterpatriot; Mase; expat_panama
Do you know what our biggest export is today? Waste paper.

Thought this was a bit odd, so I checked. Turns out that waste paper actually is our biggest export. By volume. LOLOL

14 posted on 09/26/2010 5:26:33 AM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: Cringing Negativism Network

I have been to China twice as a customer. We were having our equipment built through a vendor in China. This equipment is for mining so it qualifies as heavy industry. We visited several forging and foundry facilities and it just about made me want to cry.

One evening we had banquet with the management staff of one of the foundries. I asked the G.M. how many foundry plants were in China? He laughed at the question and talked to his subordinates and came back, shrugged his shoulders and said at least 40,000.

This particular foundry had only been operating for five years. When we arrived at the plant the first thing I wanted to see (if it was there) was the pattern shop. I figured that with the plant being so new that they were having patterns made in western europe or the U.S. Not so. I couldn’t believe my eyes when we went into the pattern shop. The quality was unbelievable. I asked how they were able to transfer that craftmanship over so quickly? The interpeter said “we have 2 billion people to choose from”. He also stated that China has 43 Einstien’s and they just need to find them. They pay ~$365 a month for skilled labor. How in the hell do we compete against that?

Try and get a permit for a new foundry here in the U.S... Won’t happen.


15 posted on 09/26/2010 5:27:47 AM PDT by mmanager (I'm not racist, I don't like the white half of him either.)
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To: mmanager

Yup.

Most Americans are utterly oblivious, what we’re up against.

Distracted by stuff which doesn’t matter. While we eagerly give away - everything which does matter.


16 posted on 09/26/2010 5:34:26 AM PDT by Cringing Negativism Network (GOP establishment are dinosaurs. Tea Party is a great big asteroid...)
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To: RS_Rider

Two books, The Collapse of Complex Societies by Tainer, and The Fall of the Roman Empire by Grant.

Summed up. Taxes and regulation. Productive people from the most humble of occupation cease striving because the cost curve becomes too steep. Honest captains of industry flee to better climes, the wealth is left to be squeezed dry like a slumlord tenement owner, or eventually looted by the welfare state, the government minions like the Pratorian Guards of old, or like copper and wire thieves all over our nation stripping once productive factories and homes. At the other end are lawyers and finacialists paper shufflers of various occupational titles, growing fat like flies off a corpse, or a weak man with a gangrene foot.


17 posted on 09/26/2010 5:35:18 AM PDT by Leisler ("Over time they create a legal system that plunders and a moral code that glorifies it." F. Bastiat)
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To: knarf

We lived fine with out police. You got a lot of stuff? Hire a kid to guard it. Why should I subsides protecting your property, or you me?

Worried about assault, rape? Get a gun. Again, why should I subsidize the protection of people that won’t protect themselves? ( And, ladies, wimps, elderly, too f’n bad. Marry, move in, take care of old dad. Move into a building, gated community where YOU pay to be protected. )

Police are welfare security. They are the welfare of security. They are to security what public housing is to shelter.

Ditto Firemen.


18 posted on 09/26/2010 5:40:35 AM PDT by Leisler ("Over time they create a legal system that plunders and a moral code that glorifies it." F. Bastiat)
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To: Cringing Negativism Network

Nicely done, team. I withdraw my claim with a caveat. Obama and the evil political establishment he represents is aligning the fatal trilogy of unionization, environmentalism and statism.
But the rising tide of Constitutionalism is flooding us with the ancient spirit of freedom that flows out of Christian principles. Thereby will we regain our heritage and become, once again, a New Jerusalem, a shining city on a hill, with genuine HOPE and CHANGE in a sin filled world.
We are, after all, a Christian nation, birthed in a commitment to the One True God.
In truth we have lost our way, allowing ourselves to be driven by false gods. After running ourselves into a ditch we sought help from a political establisment that seeks to catapault us over a cliff into the pit of hell.
Ahhh. It’s Sunday morning. The spirit of sermonizing has got me. I will likely persist for a while, elsewhere, in deference to your sensibilities.
Praise the Lord.


19 posted on 09/26/2010 5:42:51 AM PDT by Louis Foxwell (They are the vultures of Dark Crystal screeeching their hatred and fear into the void ....)
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To: Amos the Prophet
The single greatest enemy of industrialization is unionism.

That's just plain nonsense if you stop and think about it because it isn't just manufacturing that has lost jobs. Hundreds of thousands of American jobs have been sent overseas in dozens of industries, both manufacturing or service. The overwhelming majority of those jobs were not unionized. The greatest enemy of industrialization is the fact that a worker in China makes a tiny fraction of what a worker in the U.S. does, unionized or non-unionized. You could have done away with unions decades ago and it wouldn't have saved many jobs.

20 posted on 09/26/2010 5:44:32 AM PDT by Non-Sequitur
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To: Willie Green

You hit on an important point Willie.

It is true that we have become a “service” based economy, when we were formerly known as a production based economy.

During the period from WW2 to 1975, we were considered to be about 85% production based, 15% service based. Today, we have become over 60% service based and production is declining rapidly.

It’s no wonder why unemployment is approaching double digits permanently. NO economy can sustain itself for very long if it is so heavily service based as we have become. It’s an economic law. If you notice, the Government does not regulate or harass the service based sector, it is literally choking the industrial sector to death. No wonder why industry is leaving here as fast as it can.


21 posted on 09/26/2010 5:47:38 AM PDT by PSYCHO-FREEP ( Give me Liberty, or give me an M-24A2!)
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To: Cringing Negativism Network

Ironically American industry has responded to the challenge of unions, by exporting our factories to the largest organized labor union in human history:

The Peoples Republic of China.


Oh, the Iron Knee! You are totally correct....they escaped unionism for Communism...which makes me question if unions are really the big bugaboo for US industry. So many industries actually left right-to-work states (no unions) for Commie China....especially the textile and clothing manufacturers.


22 posted on 09/26/2010 5:52:38 AM PDT by UCFRoadWarrior (They don't let you build churches in Mecca)
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To: Non-Sequitur

My father who passed away this year worked in a factory for 38 years (machinist and aerospace workers). The plant made equipment for the medical fields. Six years ago they closed the plant doors for the final time. The union had for many years worked with the company trying to keep the plant viable. The union approached the company and asked what did they need to do to keep the doors open? The response was “even if we payed you minimum wage it does not make economical sense”. The plant was moved to Mexico.


23 posted on 09/26/2010 5:56:18 AM PDT by mmanager (I'm not racist, I don't like the white half of him either.)
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To: RS_Rider

We have to make things. We have to make things that are so good everyone wants them, and sell them at a price that provides a decent profit and ensures a good market. If we are to be technically innovative, we have to make the most of those innovations. We have to perceive possible markets: the Japanese saw the potential for transistor radios and VCRs that we missed. But we must make things: we cannot sell each other pizza and hair cuts as the basis for an economy.


24 posted on 09/26/2010 5:57:52 AM PDT by Nepeta
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To: mmanager

Try and get a permit for a new foundry here in the U.S... Won’t happen.


I believe you. I often wonder how much of this is happenstance and how much is deliberate design. My guess is 50/50.


25 posted on 09/26/2010 6:15:01 AM PDT by rbg81 (When you see Obama, shout: "DO YOUR JOB!!")
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To: PSYCHO-FREEP

NO economy can sustain itself for very long if it is so heavily service based as we have become.


Well, it can to some degree IF people from overseas use our services. Unfortunately, the biggest bang for the buck is still manufacturing. Note that public sector employment has increased (to take up the slack) as the manufacturing sector has declined. If the public sector shrunk down to its legitimate size, the unemployment rate would be about > 30%. The deficit has masked our economic decline for some time now.


26 posted on 09/26/2010 6:22:33 AM PDT by rbg81 (When you see Obama, shout: "DO YOUR JOB!!")
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To: Nepeta

The only way a nation can succeed is by taking what comes from the ground, under the ground, and the sun then make something out of them that people will buy. Nations that have such natural resources are very fortunate, as we are. Unfortunately, we have been looking for ways to NOT take advantage of and use what God has given us.


27 posted on 09/26/2010 6:27:23 AM PDT by KoRn (Department of Homeland Security, Certified - "Right Wing Extremist")
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To: mmanager
They pay ~$365 a month for skilled labor. How in the hell do we compete against that?

We can't beat that wage, but we could beat that wage + shipping if we could build a new foundry in this country, run it with non-union labor, and not have to deal with the excessive taxes and regulations that we now have in this country. Environazis, over-regulation, unions, and taxes add up to make productive industry all but impossible in the US these days.

28 posted on 09/26/2010 6:31:08 AM PDT by meyer (Tax the productive to carry the freeloaders - What is it with democrats and slavery?)
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To: Leisler
We lived fine with out police. You got a lot of stuff? Hire a kid to guard it. Why should I subsides protecting your property, or you me? Worried about assault, rape? Get a gun. Again, why should I subsidize the protection of people that won’t protect themselves? ( And, ladies, wimps, elderly, too f’n bad. Marry, move in, take care of old dad. Move into a building, gated community where YOU pay to be protected. ) Police are welfare security. They are the welfare of security. They are to security what public housing is to shelter.

The Founders of our country lived in colonies where there were police, paid by the local community. Apparently they liked the idea enough to state that they are providing for the general welfare at the national level, but that providing for the general welfare of local communities and states were their responsibility.

Also: I wouldnt want to live in your vision of a world.

29 posted on 09/26/2010 6:32:24 AM PDT by Lazamataz (The battle lines are drawn: On one side, are Dems and Repubs. On the other, the Tea Party (us).)
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To: 1rudeboy

If we don’t recycle all our paper here, we’re doomed!!


30 posted on 09/26/2010 6:39:51 AM PDT by Toddsterpatriot (Math is hard. Harder if you're stupid.)
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To: Gen.Blather
The legal/regulatory environment in America is another anachronism - a set of rules meant for large, unionized industrial corporations which now limits the opportunities of small businesses and independent contractors (severely, for the latter). Get companies out of the health care business and stop penalizing them for using independent contractors, and you'll see a huge spike in non-traditional employment opportunities in America.

The Industrial Revolution is over and the traditional job is dead, but too many rent-seeking vultures are profiting from the red tape put in place under the old system. Either we sweep them away, or China will.

31 posted on 09/26/2010 6:43:14 AM PDT by Mr. Jeeves ( "The right to offend is far more important than any right not to be offended." - Rowan Atkinson)
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To: RS_Rider

Thanks for posting this- very sobering.


32 posted on 09/26/2010 6:48:20 AM PDT by SE Mom (Proud mom of an Iraq war combat vet)
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To: mmanager
Try and get a permit for a new foundry here in the U.S... Won’t happen.

Problem identifed. You nailed it.

33 posted on 09/26/2010 6:49:42 AM PDT by this is my country
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To: RS_Rider

Unions.


34 posted on 09/26/2010 6:50:08 AM PDT by behzinlea
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To: RS_Rider
From a comment that "belseware" posted in reply:

You missed a bunch

20. The US electorate put in power a socialist regime bent on further diminishing America.
21. The US government bureaucracy (before and after 20.) is corrupt and bows to special interests--foreign and domestic--and perpetuates a policy of saving losers.
22. The majority of unions in the US drive unsustainable policies for compensation and work rules.
23. The "sustainable energy" racket is driving us further into oblivion by pretending that it can economically replace fossil fuel energy, while fighting to stop the expansion of clean, cheap, safe, dispatchable, and unlimited nuclear energy.
24. Industry in America is beset with ineffective regulation (amidst the effective regulation), uncompetitive tax policies, and other related costs that drive manufacturing offshore. In this environment, a sane US business person does just that.
25. LAWFARE...now the regime is doing it too (not just the fanatics).



35 posted on 09/26/2010 6:53:55 AM PDT by dr_who
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To: rbg81

So, who pays for “Public Sector” employment? Public Employees?

Who pays for “Service Employees”? More Service Employees?

Eventually, you run out of the actual reason for a Service based economy like the one we find ourselves in. The pathetic thing is, people like yourself, have no clue what will eventually happen, nor do they care.


36 posted on 09/26/2010 6:56:27 AM PDT by PSYCHO-FREEP ( Give me Liberty, or give me an M-24A2!)
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To: Shady
The Union members are now figuring out that those at the top are the only ones who are benefiting from this relationship, at least in the private sector

Having been complicit in the murder of the US industrial base, the greater number of parasitic union workers are now sucking blood from the throat of the host that is least likely to die on them: government.

37 posted on 09/26/2010 6:57:39 AM PDT by behzinlea
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To: PSYCHO-FREEP

The pathetic thing is, people like yourself, have no clue what will eventually happen, nor do they care.


Hey, Psycho: Industries use services too [in case you haven’t noticed]. That being said, I AM in agreement with you that deIndustrialization is a bad thing.


38 posted on 09/26/2010 7:09:21 AM PDT by rbg81 (When you see Obama, shout: "DO YOUR JOB!!")
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To: cripplecreek

***Overunionization, overtaxation, and overregulation are paralyzing us.****

_________________________________________________

Certainly we can’t forget an education system that since the late 1970’s has been run by socialists whose goal is to turn their students into mush brained idiots with overreaching political correctness and the inability to teach anything useful that would instill self reliance.


39 posted on 09/26/2010 7:09:39 AM PDT by jsh3180
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To: RS_Rider

I think the article is BS. US is still the largest manufacturer in the world. you could have written the same doom and gloom article about agriculture a hundred years ago when 70% of the workforce was on the land. then it switched to manufacture, now its switching again. so what. In ohio for every job that “got shipped overseas” more jobs are now involved in export.

why its a good thing to have people stamping out galvanized buckets rather than writing software is beyond me.


40 posted on 09/26/2010 7:13:42 AM PDT by beebuster2000
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To: Leisler

Collapse of Complex Societies !!!

been reading that, it is an immense important book.

failure of marginal return on complexity. translation: we went into iraq but didnt get the oil. now we are doomed.


41 posted on 09/26/2010 7:16:00 AM PDT by beebuster2000
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To: PSYCHO-FREEP

We really need to take a look a how Germany manages to be the 2nd largest exporter in the world. Like us, they have powerful unions and a very strong ‘green’ movement. Also, like us they have something similar to NAFTA to deal with - ie: the EU. They also face the same pressure to relocate their business to low cost countries... and have been (to the low wage countries of eastern Europe).

Yet despite all that, they still have a large manufacturing industry that sets them as the 2nd largest exporter on earth.

So why can’t the US be #1, then?


42 posted on 09/26/2010 7:23:04 AM PDT by gogogodzilla (Live free or die!)
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To: meyer
"We can't beat that wage, but we could beat that wage + shipping if we could build a new foundry in this country, run it with non-union labor, and not have to deal with the excessive taxes and regulations that we now have in this country. Environazis, over-regulation, unions, and taxes add up to make productive industry all but impossible in the US these days. "

This is the hidden problem most can't see.

First you have a Government backed entity that puts upward pressure on wages for the sake of filling Union Coffers. Next you have a host of government employees that a new business must pay to get started in business and then must continue to pay to keep doing business. (Government regulation and taxes are used to pay government employees)

So before the first actual employee is hired to work and produce a product millions of dollars are spent to pay people who have nothing to do with actually producing the product. So in essence we have priced ourselves out of the market before the plant is opened.

And what do the protectionists/unionists want for a remedy? They want even more government regulation to fix the problem created by government regulation.

hole + /digging

43 posted on 09/26/2010 7:31:11 AM PDT by Mad Dawgg (If you're going to deny my 1st Amendment rights then I must proceed to the next one...)
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To: beebuster2000

How about national defense?
Do you think that it might be a little difficult to fight a war against China when they make most of what we would need?
I’m not saying that we should not embrace automation and service skills but we should not let ourselves get into the position that we are unable to defend ourselves.


44 posted on 09/26/2010 7:31:49 AM PDT by RS_Rider (I hate Illinois Nazis)
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To: PSYCHO-FREEP
During the period from WW2 to 1975, we were considered to be about 85% production based, 15% service based.

You have any backup for this claim? Or did you just pull it out of your ear?

45 posted on 09/26/2010 7:35:12 AM PDT by Toddsterpatriot (Math is hard. Harder if you're stupid.)
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To: PSYCHO-FREEP
It is true that we have become a “service” based economy, when we were formerly known as a production based economy.

80 to 100 years ago a good portion of the "service" economy was house maids and butlers.

46 posted on 09/26/2010 7:36:38 AM PDT by Western Phil
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To: RS_Rider

not sure on that but i would bet that we still make our own weps pretty much except for the small stuff. the Abrams tank plant is in Ohio where i was referencing.

not sure ont hat though but as dumb as the govt is i hope they arent that dumb.


47 posted on 09/26/2010 7:39:41 AM PDT by beebuster2000
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To: 1rudeboy
Turns out that waste paper actually is our biggest export. By volume. LOLOL

shoulda checked hot air as well

48 posted on 09/26/2010 7:40:54 AM PDT by beebuster2000
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To: Amos the Prophet
The single greatest enemy of USA industrialization is foreign workers who are paid $1 per day if they are lucky, and unionism.
49 posted on 09/26/2010 7:42:57 AM PDT by I am Richard Brandon
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To: beebuster2000

I have read that a large portion of the electronics that go into our military equipment is sourced from China. Although we assemble the equipment here we have put us into a position that we would quickly run out of parts and material if it came down to it. Steel making, casting and forging skills are not being maintained.


50 posted on 09/26/2010 7:43:44 AM PDT by RS_Rider (I hate Illinois Nazis)
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