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CNBC Documentary Inspires Portland PD to Drop Remington 700 Rifles
TV Newser ^ | October 28, 2010 | Molly Stark Dean

Posted on 10/28/2010 5:14:35 PM PDT by Beaten Valve

The Portland, Oregon Police Department decided to stop using its Remington 700 rifles after the airing of CNBC’s documentary, “Remington Under Fire: A CNBC Investigation,” according to “The Portland Press Herald.” The doc premiered on October 20th

“I don’t want to run the risk of having an accidental discharge like this where it puts an officer’s or community member’s life in danger,” Police Chief James Craig (picture, right) said to “The Portland Press Herald” Wednesday.

The documentary explores claims that the Remington Model 700- series hunting rifle is known to fire without pulling the trigger. The rifle’s manufacturer, Remington, has been aware of this issue for just about 60 years, according the the CNBC doc, which re-airs tonight at 8pmET.


TOPICS: News/Current Events; US: Washington
KEYWORDS: banglist; guns; police; portland; remington
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To: BooBoo1000

No the original designer did NOT say the design was flawed-he said it was POSSIBLE that IF people did not properly clean and maintain the rifle-dirt and/or excess oil in the trigger assembly MIGHT cause it to discharge-MIGHT,COULD POSSIBLY. The man who designed the trigger-Mr. Walker NEVER ONCE said the design was flawed.
If it is such a bad trigger assembly-why does the military specify that the remington 700’s that both the US Army,and the USMC use as their main sniper rifle-comes with the Walker trigger?
The US military has used the remington 700 as their main sniper rifle since the early sixties,and they still use it.
All CNBC did was try to make guns look bad,as usual,mayor for life Bloomberg likely financed the story.


61 posted on 10/30/2010 12:32:52 PM PDT by Starvin Larry
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To: NVDave

As a Marine-and a former firearms instructor for the USMC sniper course I never,not once saw a problem with any versionof the Remington 700 rifle.
CNBC did an anti-gun hit “piece” on Remington.
I can almost gaurantee that every incident was due to one of two things-improper cleaning of the rifle-or someone who did not know what they were doing adjusted the trigger.


62 posted on 10/30/2010 12:42:31 PM PDT by Starvin Larry
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To: Beaten Valve

Who do I contact at the department about buying one? If they’re going to part with it, I’m willing to give it a good home.

(and no, I’m not really joking...)


63 posted on 10/30/2010 12:48:13 PM PDT by ctdonath2 (+)
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To: ctdonath2
CNBC Documentary Inspires Portland (Maine) PD to Drop Remington 700 Rifles

Translation: A anti-gun CNBC "hit piece" inspires a stupid police department with more money than sense.

My wife says I have enough 700's, but if the price is right I am in the market for some 700's in the .222, .223, 22-250 range up to the .338 mags or .350 mags.

64 posted on 10/30/2010 1:36:33 PM PDT by TYVets
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To: Starvin Larry

Nonetheless, the lawyers were able to retrieve documents from the USMC under FOIA that indicate that the USMC did have issues with the 700’s trigger group.


65 posted on 10/30/2010 3:15:55 PM PDT by NVDave
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To: Starvin Larry

For the same reason the Remington 700 became the most-sold rifle in the civilian market: it was the cheapest. The military gives the contract to the lowest cost bidder, not the guy with the best product design.

The entire history of the Remington 700 is one of cost reduction. That’s why it has a round receiver, why it doesn’t have controlled round feeding, why it has a flimsy extractor, why it has a three-piece bolt that is soldered together rather than a one-piece forged bolt that is selectively heat treated. Cost reduction. It certainly isn’t because round receivers are stiffer than flat-bottom receivers. It is because it is easier to machine a round receiver, because you can chuck it up in a lathe and dial it in very fast, without the use of jigs.

That’s what caused Winchester to drop the controlled round feed Model 70 and go to a push feed: cost. Competing with the 700 made it impossible for Winchester to sustain the cost of labor in the Model 70 after the early 60’s.

That said, the Winchester trigger (even post-64) is still a better design, and the three position direct-acting safety on a Mauser or Winchester is clearly superior to trigger blocking safety or (as in the original Remington trigger group) a safety that blocks the sear from dropping.

Cheapest isn’t the best. It is just the cheapest.


66 posted on 10/30/2010 3:37:01 PM PDT by NVDave
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To: NVDave
NVDave, you must have missed the post about the OVERWHELMING majority of custom and long range rifles are made on or clones of the 700 action. The number of action makers that are basically making Remington actions is longer than I know and I can come up with double digits of the top of my head.
People spending money not on factory guns, but custom built rifles are buying Remingtons. IMO if Remington had a clue they'd tighten up their tolerances and step the Quality Control and maybe recapture a bit of what they've lost to the custom gun builders.

As for the CNBC special, if a rifle I had did anything like the footage they ran I'd consider that gun broke and would then fix it the idea of immediately removing it from service is,.... hard for me to believe. Remington has the same basic action with a 2oz. trigger (40x) and NO safety, safeties are mechanical and anything can fail. I believe if it were a negligently bad design MANY more folks would be dead, and Remington would either be out of business or everyone would have a new trigger
As for a potential hang fire. I'd have to clear the action pointing down range, if it was safe for me to pull the trigger it ought to be safe to open the action pointing in the same direction.
Finally like another posted: You don't let the muzzle cover anything you don't want to destroy!
I try to follow that at home, out and about, anytime I'm handling a weapon even if I handled it last, or if I just reloaded it

67 posted on 11/17/2010 11:07:38 AM PST by thinkthenpost
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To: thinkthenpost

#@%@#$^%$@%#$%@
....the idea of NOT immediately removing it from service is hard to believe,...

I should abide by my screen name!


68 posted on 11/17/2010 11:09:27 AM PST by thinkthenpost
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To: thinkthenpost

First, the action has nothing to do with the problems inherent in the trigger group. If you put the same trigger group (and matching bolt) on a Winchester 70 (pre or post ‘64), Mauser 96/98, Savage or custom action, you’d have the exact same problems. Likewise, if you put a Timney, Jewell or Anschuetz trigger group into a Remington, you wouldn’t have the issues that Remington has with their triggers.

Second, the reason why the majority of custom action makers are cloning the Rem700 is for the same reason that the Rem700 is was designed in the first place: the round receiver is easier to dial in on a lathe (or now, on a VMC). The flat-bottomed receivers (eg, Win70 and Mauser 98) take more time (and therefore higher labor costs) to either manufacture or to blueprint. Remington isn’t going tighten tolerances because they won’t gain much from the exercise. They’d get more improvement from adding a premium barrel on their existing actions than they’d get by making something equivalent to a Stolle, Defiance, BAT or Border action.

As for money spent on custom guns: Big money isn’t spent on Remington-based rifles. People spend nice money, but not big money on Remington customs or clones. Big money is spent on pre-64 Winchester based rifles or Mauser (or Mauser clone) action based rifles built by custom smiths. I’m talking $8K and up for a rifle, some into the teens with engraving and fancy checkering jobs on really nice wood. Want to see a Real Big (NB capital “R,” capital “B”) money rifle? Look at some of the arms produced by Hartmann und Weiss in Germany. A new rifle of theirs based on a Mauser or side-lock action could set you back $50K. That’s what I consider a “high quality rifle.” A custom bench gun based on a Remington clone might be very accurate and quite nifty in benchrest shooting, but it won’t be suitable for hunting, nor is it especially collectable. To each their own - I’m not saying the Remington-clone market is a bunch of bad rifles, only that they have a narrow application. Oh, and they’re (comparatively) easy to build. As a result, the very high priced bespoke rifles aren’t built on Remington actions.

There is still and always has been a problem in the Walker trigger group. Whether someone (or a group of people) have never seen the problem evidence itself is not proof that the problem doesn’t exist. Look at the patent drawings and think through how the trigger group works. Now put a big of schmutz behind the connector, put on the safety to lift the sear off the connector and let the connector wedge forward. Now release the safety. There’s a reason why Remington now tells you to ‘never pull the trigger while the safety is engaged.’ It is because they know that the connector can work out from under the sear and *not return* when the trigger is released while the safety is on. This problem doesn’t happen with a Win70 trigger group, nor a Mauser group, nor a Timney, Jewell or Anschuetz trigger. It *can* happen on those triggers if someone gets into the trigger group with a file or stone and really makes a hash of things, but as they come from the factory, those trigger groups don’t have a situation where only dirt can make the trigger group malfunction in the way the Remington 700 “Walker Fire Control System” can. None of them have the connector (which was another Remington expediency to make it cheaper to manufacture). The Walker trigger group can, from the factory with no adjustment or malpractice by a gunsmith, can accumulate enough dirt behind the connector to malfunction. Start making the trigger too light and it just happens more easily.


69 posted on 11/17/2010 12:24:08 PM PST by NVDave
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To: NVDave
I won't argue about rifle above 10K, but IMO 1.5-10K it is some kind of 700 based action probably greater than 5 to 1.
IMO if you don't monkey with the trigger I think it is largely a non issue. Even the gunsmith who advanced the dirt under the connector theory had to admit he hasn't been able to find an example of it.

As for the receiver, Remingtons (IMO) are generally more accurate and / or easier to make accurate than the model 70 or a Mauser. I'm a Savage guy (lefty), and they are probably a bit more accurate out of the box than Remingtons, BUT they are not a particularly pretty rifle to my eye.
To each their own, but I think the CNBC documentary was more a hit piece than a shining piece of journalism.

70 posted on 11/17/2010 1:08:04 PM PST by thinkthenpost
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To: Beaten Valve

Old Habits Die Hard at NBC

Posted on April 13, 2012

Only two weeks ago, NBC was caught having deceptively edited a 911 tape from the controversial Zimmerman/Martin shooting in Florida. This week, NBC accused Remington Arms Company of manufacturing unsafe firearms—specifically its immensely popular Model 870 and Model 1100 shotguns. Gun owners will also remember the hatchet job that NBC did on the Remington Model 700 bolt-action rifle in 2010.

Remington and the National Shooting Sports Foundation have already set the record straight on the substance of NBC’s current accusation, so for the moment we will address the purely political issues involved, and NBC’s history of dishonest reporting to push its political agenda.

NBC coupled its accusation against the two models of shotguns with a call for all firearms to be subject to the oversight of the Consumer Product Safety Commission, something straight out of the Brady Campaign’s playbook for the last 30-odd years. Gun prohibition activists have always wanted the commission to have the power to declare all firearms inherently too unsafe to be legal for sale. The Brady outfit even called for consumer products regulations on firearms in the gun control proposals it made to President Obama in 2008.

Read at:

http://www.nraila.org/news-issues/articles/2012/old-habits-die-hard-at-nbc.aspx?s=&st=&ps=


71 posted on 04/14/2012 5:55:55 AM PDT by KeyLargo
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To: JRandomFreeper

Sako....as in FINNBEAR !! Fine as they come!!!!


72 posted on 04/14/2012 6:02:45 AM PDT by litehaus (A memory tooooo long)
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