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U.S. sending tanks to hit harder at Taliban
Washington Post ^ | November 19, 2010 | Rajiv Chandrasekaran

Posted on 11/19/2010 4:32:04 AM PST by Pan_Yan

The U.S. military is sending a contingent of heavily armored battle tanks to Afghanistan for the first time in the nine-year war, defense officials said, a shift that signals a further escalation in the aggressive tactics that have been employed by American forces this fall to attack the Taliban.

The deployment of a company of M1 Abrams tanks, which will be fielded by the Marines in the country's southwest, will allow ground forces to target insurgents from a greater distance - and with more of a lethal punch - than is possible from any other U.S. military vehicle. The 68-ton tanks are propelled by a jet engine and equipped with a 120mm gun that can destroy a house more than a mile away.

Despite an overall counterinsurgency strategy that emphasizes the use of troops to protect Afghan civilians from insurgents, statistics released by the NATO military command in Kabul and interviews with several senior commanders indicate that U.S. troop operations over the past two months have been more intense and have had a harder edge than at any point since the initial 2001 drive to oust the Taliban government.

The pace of Special Operations missions to kill or capture Taliban leaders has more than tripled over the past three months. U.S. and NATO aircraft unleashed more bombs and missiles in October - 1,000 total - than in any single month since 2001. In the districts around the southern city of Kandahar, soldiers from the Army's 101st Airborne Division have demolished dozens of homes that were thought to be booby-trapped, and they have used scores of high-explosive line charges - a weapon that had been used only sparingly in the past - to blast through minefields.

(Excerpt) Read more at washingtonpost.com ...


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; Front Page News; News/Current Events; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: afghanistan; usmc
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To: Blueflag
The tanks can reach out and touch the small groups of gomers ABOVE the roads with direct fire. They tend to shoot down from above and then scoot after hitting our squads with small arms, mortar and RPG fire.

Tanks can only elevate those tubes so far. If they are caught in a steep walled canyon, they won't be able to engage the "gomers" up in the rocks.

The M1’s munitions can destroy any dwelling or structure the commander is ordered to demolish.

Ummm, yeah. Not unless they are using a HEP/HESH round. Both the HEAT and sabot rounds are meant for punching holes in armor plate, not mud huts. The sabot will make a hole approximately 2" in diameter, while the HEAT round will cause cratering on the outer walls as the jet of super-heated gasses blast through. The HEP/HESH (High-Explosive Plastic/High Explosive Squash Head) will flatten prior to exploding, giving a greater contact area and a larger breach on a building.

I'm not saying that tanks are a bad idea, but our tankers need to stay in open terrain where they can operate the tank to their advantage, or at least have infantry support on the flanks in confined area's. A tankers worst enemy is a pi$$ed off grunt (or a gomer).

The Russians learned their lesson, the hard way.

51 posted on 11/19/2010 9:03:13 AM PST by Sarajevo (You're jealous because the voices only talk to me.)
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To: Sarajevo

I am on the road, so my reply will be brief. To your point,

1) if the commander requests the wrong round, or the tank wasn’t loaded=out with HEP/HEsh, then we’ll be spending a lot of money making small holes in mud buildings.

2) I’ll dig deeper later to check the topography around where these tank missions will be conducted. I haven’t read carefully enough to be sure, but I think they will be employed in the wider valley/poppy-growing region. M1Ax can elevate to only + 20 degrees, so steep/close inclines are an issue. They can point the tube high enough there. If not, the tank has no business being there, and it must have been ordered there by a civilian.

3) In some ways, this *might* be a better mission for the M2s. Dunno. But the Marines will fight with what they have.


52 posted on 11/19/2010 10:31:03 AM PST by Blueflag (Res ipsa loquitur)
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To: Sarajevo

From a foxnews article “The tanks will initially be used by Marines engaged in an intense firefight with Taliban cells in the country’s southwest province of Helmand, the newspaper said, giving American ground forces the power to target insurgents with a longer range and more lethal punch than from any other U.S. military vehicle.”

Lots of maneuvering room in the Helmand/Qurya area, and modest slopes in the area. Just FYI.

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/world/2010/11/19/report-deploying-battle-tanks-afghanistan/#ixzz15kp5KZcK


53 posted on 11/19/2010 10:42:22 AM PST by Blueflag (Res ipsa loquitur)
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To: Chode

Go to google maps (satellite view)and the sw corner of Afghanistan is pretty flat. Also, it is the border with Iran, and Pakistan. Seems to me like they’ll be plugging up a hole, but I always lost at Risk. :)


54 posted on 11/19/2010 11:25:52 AM PST by huldah1776
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To: DTogo
agreed... as long as it has a few thousand yards open field of fire
55 posted on 11/19/2010 2:54:14 PM PST by Chode (American Hedonist - *DTOM* -ww- NO Pity for the LAZY)
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To: huldah1776
i hope so, and it's going to be a looong, cold, winter inside of that steel too...
56 posted on 11/19/2010 2:56:07 PM PST by Chode (American Hedonist - *DTOM* -ww- NO Pity for the LAZY)
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To: Pan_Yan
Tanks will be very helpful, they will be generally be immune from the anti-personnel IED's kiiling our troops. Tread tracks will be safe places for dismounted patrols.

Air support, UAV's are often iffy because of bad weather and constant sand storms.

We had to wait to bring armor in-country because the heavy lift transports need the longer runway just finished at FOB Dwyer.

Mobility and speed will still be a problem because of the lack of roads and hard tracks wide enough for armor. Route Red is OK but off-road is a big problem due to the sponginess of the top soil, we can't drive humvees off-track.

57 posted on 11/19/2010 3:31:47 PM PST by gandalftb (OK State, 9-1, Go Cowboys!)
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To: gandalftb

Thanks for the info. To say I don’t know anything about driving conditions in Afghanistan would be a gross understatement.


58 posted on 11/19/2010 3:50:56 PM PST by Pan_Yan
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To: Blueflag
IMHO, this would have been a better mission for the M8 AGS which was supposed to have taken the place of the M551 Sheridan...of course it was cancelled during the Clinton administration...


59 posted on 11/19/2010 3:56:45 PM PST by Joe 6-pack (Que me amat, amet et canem meum)
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To: Lurker

The Rheinmetall 120mm cannon is a chrome-lined smoothbore. It is the main gun on the M1A1 series.

Regards,


60 posted on 11/19/2010 4:44:18 PM PST by Thunder 6
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To: Blueflag
1) if the commander requests the wrong round, or the tank wasn’t loaded=out with HEP/HEsh, then we’ll be spending a lot of money making small holes in mud buildings.

Are HEP/HESH rounds still in the inventory? When I last crewed a tank (1987), they were all carrying anti-armor rounds. IIRC, they didn't even have the logarithms in the computer for the rainbow-like ballistics of the round.

Be safe and don't walk off the beaten path.

61 posted on 11/20/2010 12:22:24 AM PST by Sarajevo (You're jealous because the voices only talk to me.)
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To: Sarajevo

Checked it out. Looks like HESH left the inventory of US tanks when we went to smooth bore tubes in the M1. Brits kept it the longest per various sources.

I’ll admit I wasn’t aware of that round being in use, but you brought it up ;-). Seems only the basic HEAT-MP round seems to be (via public sources) in inventory right now.

Since you crewed a tank, you know a lot more firsthand about this than I.

It’d be good to know what a loader in Afghanistan can grab when needed.


62 posted on 11/20/2010 5:03:47 AM PST by Blueflag (Res ipsa loquitur)
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To: AdmSmith; Arthur Wildfire! March; Berosus; bigheadfred; ColdOne; Convert from ECUSA; Delacon; ...
heavily armored battle tanks to Afghanistan for the first time in the nine-year war... a further escalation in the aggressive tactics that have been employed by American forces this fall to attack the Taliban... The 68-ton tanks are propelled by a jet engine and equipped with a 120mm gun that can destroy a house more than a mile away.
That should disrupt a few wedding receptions and baby food factories. Thanks Pan_Yan.


63 posted on 11/22/2010 8:52:42 PM PST by SunkenCiv (The 2nd Amendment follows right behind the 1st because some people are hard of hearing.)
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To: Pan_Yan

The M1A1 is well armored in the front, however 14.5 mm SLAT rounds have penetrated teh rear in the past. I hat to think of what will happen when RPG-7, or Russian supplied RPG-29 rockets or 9M133 Kornet missiles start hitting the tops and rears of our tanks. The Israeli Merkava 4 is bigger and more heavily armored than the M1A1 and Israel lost a few in Lebanon.


64 posted on 11/22/2010 9:03:11 PM PST by rmlew (You want change? Vote for the most conservative electable in your state or district.)
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