Skip to comments.Batteries v. gas - so far, it's no contest
Posted on 11/27/2010 7:04:00 PM PST by Nachum
Richard Gilbert is a Toronto-based consultant who focuses on energy and transportation. His latest book is Transport Revolutions: Moving People and Freight without Oil, written with Anthony Perl.
My last post suggested that two types of transportation fuel could replace oil products. One kind including natural gas and biofuels could be used in versions of the internal combustion engines (ICEs) that today provide propulsion for almost all road vehicles. The other alternative fuel electricity would require a switch to electric motors (EMs) for propulsion. I concluded that electricity is the best alternative, especially where there is a surplus of electricity generation or it could be readily expanded.
(Excerpt) Read more at theglobeandmail.com ...
The hybrid vehicle is the only vehicle that gives the best of both worlds:the gas can be used on long distance trips and you can drive it like a regular car and for in town and round-about trips, you would drive it like an electric car, saving on gas.
The Toyota Prius has proven such a vehicle has a market. Its already produced.
At an EPA equivalent 99 mpg the electric cars will be more expensive than gas/diesel once the EPA is finished jacking up electricity costs with ever more burdensome regulations. Expect electricity to double in the next five years with this EPA.
>> I concluded that electricity is the best alternative, especially where there is a surplus of electricity generation or it could be readily expanded.
Where is this magical place? Do they have unicorns there? Can I walk on rainbows to get there?
Every year the power grid and generation capacity in industrialized nations gets stretched thinner and thinner. Stupid liberal jackwagon! Sheesh!
I love it that my 30 year old diesel VW Rabbit pickup gets better highway mileage than the Prius. It did cost me a pretty penny, though - $2500 five years ago.
The problem with electric cars is the weight and expense of the battery and the absence of fast acceleration. Unless it is solved, their future is rather limited.
And the basis for that 99 MPG figure is...
...complete fiction, no?
And don’t forget to add in the cost of disposing of old batteries. I am sure the “re-cycling fees” will be substantial.
i hope i’m dead bfore i have to drive an electric or hybred car!
Driving from Salt Lake City to LasVegas, after a hundred miles or so, eighteen wheelers pass Prius going up hills.
The Prius goes up the hills about 35 MPH.
I guess a regular car can go that slow if you have the patience.
But with today's lithium-ion batteries and soon ultracapacitor batteries, battery packs can be VASTLY smaller (e.g., less interference with interior space of the car) without sacrificing range. The use of Li-On battery packs is what makes the Nissan Leaf possible. And the EPA has worked out methods to recycle these new battery types safely, too.
I have to laugh that the first folks to embrace this sort of thing live in CA. The land of rolling blackouts.
Don’t worry...the DOT will soon have a national speed limit of 40 mph. Any faster than that and you’ll get pulled over.
The cops won’t write tickets anymore. It will be impossible to exceed the speed limit.
The EPA. And it's at least as reliable as their Global Warming® proclamations.
Hybrids and electric vehicles may well be well suited for city driving.I’ve read that that’s true and have no way to refute such suggestions.But 90% of my driving is highway driving and my diesel *loves* the highway.It gets 42mpg on the highway,has 425 ft lbs of torque (which can pin you back in your seat) and has all the latest gadgets and creature comforts.It’ll be a cold day in hell before I own a hybrid or electric.It’s diesel for me from now on.
“without sacrificing range”
Range? What is this range of which you speak? They have no range to begin with
All electric vehicles will never be a viable option for the masses, even if electricity were free. I can buy an economical vehicle that will haul 5 adults uphill and downhill in 100+ degree heat with the air conditioner running for as many miles as the fuel tank will allow and refuel in munutes.
I thought those batteries didn’t need recycling, they ignited and cremated themselves on their own.
Yes, just when will a battery replacement be needed, and what will it cost when that time comes.
I have heard 4-5 years and $7000. There won’t be any govt subsidy for those dollars.
To get it in my driveway, they will have to drive that prius over my cold dead body.
And a lot more expensive, and don't like to be discharged, ...
Electric vehicles can only be practical for those individuals who own electrified garages.
Street parkers, those who just have parking pads or garages and car ports without electricity, or those who live in apartment and park in a lot, none of those folks (a large percentage of the driving public) can even consider an electric car.
I can’t see this as a predominant means of getting around.
I do not think that there is any inherent limitation with electric motors as far as providing acceleration. Electric motors have a lot of torque for zero (0) RPM, so to provide enhanced acceleration, gearing is all that is needed. Please correct me if I am wrong.
My gasoline-powered car also loves the highway. There are a few highways in Texas with 80mph speed limits. I set the cruise ocntrol at 80mph and average 35-38MPG. That, and my car has a curb weight of 3,500lbs.
I’m still waiting for Mr. Fusion so I can hook up my Delorian.
7 hr charge at 240 volts. about 20 hours at 110/120V
That $7000 to replace that battery could have bought a lot of diesel to run that modern 60 mpg diesel. Some day they may even grow diesel with algae or some kind of genetically engineered Elaeis guineensis.
A 220 volt circuit at 30 amps will charge these batteries at 6.6 kilowatt-hours per hour for 7 hours. A 5600 watt dryer uses 5.6 kilowatt-hours. So, if you run the equivalent of a dryer for 7 hours each night, will one be charged a night time rate? Nope! Electrical rates will go up as more batteries are charged. And those home owners heating their homes on those cold winter nights will be paying to the nose because we have people living in a fantasy world on an unicorn farm.
Those who don't think through a process don't understand the possible results with unintended consequences.
When we visit our children in CA, they've told us that the only people they see driving hybrids are libs and ghays.
Me too. They're un-American.
My 1964 Shelby AC Cobra:
Prius freaks wet their pants when they see and hear this beast.
I built one for Dennis Wilson of the Beach Boys with a 429 to go drag racing.
I have no idea what happened to it.
When he got off on drugs he traded it in to Hollywood Sport Car for a motorcycle.
Shelby rented for 2 weeks at $1,000/day to find out how we blew his ass off every Sunday.
A frend of mine had 3 of them, had to sell one when he got divorced but still has 2, one of which he still races.
About 4 years ago he had the one he races, unrestored, at a car show and was offered a million for it and turned it down.
Why did you rush to publicly demonstrate your lack of knowledge about the Prius when you could have remained anonymous and kept your secret?
I’ve been driving a Prius since 2006. I traded up to the latest generation Prius last year. I get anywhere between 50 and 60 mpg on regular gas at consistent highway speeds of 65 to 70 mph and have plenty of reserve power (using the electric motor and gas engine combined) to get it over 80 when needed. Going up hills at 65 to 75 is no strain at all although the mpg will drop briefly into the mid 40’s. I don’t defer to 18 wheelers because I can’t keep up with them; I do it because I know what they have to do to make a living and I don’t want to make it any harder on them than it already is.
As long as they are plugged into the grid, electric storage is not a big issue. Once you need to get off the grid, you need massive batteries to massive weight. The bigger the batteries, the bigger the weight.
Which is why an electric golf cart works just fine if you are moving people and light equipment around a plant or a shopping center . . . but doesn't work so well once you need to go further.
I'm a big fan of electric motors for my lawn tools-- weed whacker, push mower and the like. But I have the sense enough to know that they outperform their gas counterparts only because I run them for 30-40 minutes at a time.
Diesel is all kinds of awesome.
About a year ago an original one sold for $5 million at auction.
Electric Vehicle Acceleration???
Of course your range may suffer some...
What on earth are you driving that gives you 38mpg at 80mph????
We have driven all over the state of Texas for years and have never seen any 80MPH speed limits on public roads. Where are the ones you are speaking about?
You have top parse the sentence as it **is** government-speak. The range that won't be sacrificed is their pet poodle named Range. No sacrifices will have to take place.
That would be I-10 with a posted limit of 80mph (especially going west from San Antonio). It was 80 the last time I was down there about a year ago. There are also stretches of highway in West Texas with posted limits of 80mph.
Yeah? Who is he a consultant for?
How is the electricity it takes to charge a battery produced?
I live 2 blocks from I10 in Houston and I have driven it all the way out to west Texas. I don’t recall any 80MPH speed limits, but if you say there is, I’ll just have to take your word for it.
I guess all you Prius drivers like the scenery so you go up hills at 35 MPH.
When an 18 wheeler has to slow down behind you while other traffic clears, it takes a long time and distance for them to pass, but they do that.
If you calculate the cost per mile for running a Prius, it is more than my motorhome. Also you have to enjoy the sagebrush on the hills around you.
I am just going by what was on road signs from Junction all the way to SA about a year ago.
the Federal Gov’mt makes more money off a gallon of gas than any other entity in the World. They aren’t gonna give but lip service to anything else unless they can “replace” that somehow.
A really medieval mindset.