Skip to comments.Amerithrax experts debate FBI findings, insist Ivins was innocent
Posted on 11/30/2010 9:43:41 AM PST by EdLake
WASHINGTON -- The FBI may have closed its Amerithax case against Fort Detrick scientist Bruce Ivins nine months ago, but some experts are not willing to let the issue die quite so easily.
A group of about 25 scientists, professors, writers, terrorism experts and more convened Monday afternoon to discuss the particulars of the investigation and to debate who the real perpetrator may have been.
(Excerpt) Read more at fredericknewspost.com ...
However, just how many of these labs are there and there are only 4 applications. An application leaves a footprint and this can be traced for various reasons.
One of my contacts asked....why didn't they just go to the chemical dept and get some paraformaldehyde and use it. Why do the application?
So there is a reason, if you put the two split failures back on the list. In order to keep operating and satisfy the license people, you have to have this PLAN OF ACTION. I could not remember that name last night. It is a written proposal that has to be approved of what are you going to do about this.
In order to use the paraformaldehyde in the plan of action, there had to be a section 18. So I feel they were forced to do it up front. I did get a FOIA and the application is signed by Dr. Carl Bausch and the target organism is listed as “ a dreaded disease of both livestock and man”. I can't think of a better phrase to use for anthrax without saying anthrax.
If it wasn't for anthrax then what was it for? And this is listed on the anthrax cleanup page.
If we had a really good reporter on staff we would assign the part about the chicken processing place to him and get him to tie it to a guy named Olson who died in Oklahoma covered with spots after he apparently survived a terrible lung infection.
I'm an entomologist, honey bee specially.
Put yourself in their shoes. They want to steal it but the know stealing is wrong. So they don't want to get caught with it on their person. Hey....what are you doing with that.
So they mailed it out of the building to a local address and another Pakistani student from the same hometown as the one that took it from the storage place. But he was nervous and he transposed 116 to 161. The Post Office delivered it to 161 which was occupied by this woman who sat across the table from me in class. She opened it and this resulted in an infection on her arm.
Then she touched her husband and he got one on his face. You have to have a break in the skin to come down with this. Men who are clean shaven will get it on their faces and necks, women on the inside of the forearm. Probably because they have so much work to do and loads of stuff to carry.
The other Pak was majoring in Vet Micro and would have had access to it. That was the one that stole it. Then he mailed it out to his comrade from the same home town, but who was majoring in Agronomy.
This building was on the north side of some railroad tracks and if you were on the south side of it and looked off to the north east, there was a large housing development. I thought at the time that it was not isolated enough.
For safety reasons, they didn't like anyone working alone in a lab, especially where dangerous agents are concerned. OTOH, people eager to get experimental results tend to ignore those safety rules because of the difficulty in getting someone to come in and just sit around the lab while they're working odd hours; the compromise is that people entering the facility at odd hours have to sign in and let security know where they expect to be, so that security can check up on them. IOW, there was nothing unusual about Ivins working alone or at odd hours. By that criteria, you'd better be seeing a judge to get an arrest warrant for exDemMom, because she clearly is a criminal, having done exactly the same thing. Science is not a 9-5 job.
As I have said before, I am highly skeptical about the "evidence" against Ivins. Much of it, like his working hours, applies to any scientist. Statements about his mental status, even those entered in the court records, are likely to be self-serving testimony offered by people with their own agenda. A scapegoat was needed, and he's a perfect one now that he can't defend himself.
I never met Hatfill. But there's only one degree of separation between him and me.
But, you usually have to get them talking about other people or one of their obsessions before you can tell that they're sociopaths.
They don't need to talk about obsessions (OCD is a different condition anyway) for me to pick up on their psychopathy. Even when they learn to act normal, and they seem normal on the surface, I pick up on it. They are the most dangerous when they realize that they can't manipulate you because you know them for what they are...
Let's say a scientist needs to read a set of plates and it will take 20 minutes, but they come due to read at 10 p.m. on Sat. night.
Some ninny plated them. Knowing well that they would have to be read at this time.
How much time would be recorded:
a. the 20 minutes
b. a minimum of 2 hours of work time as per union rules
Thanks for the link.
It’s amazing how high profile cases will bring nuts out of the woodwork.
I think the time recorded would include the prep and clean up times. In any case, the times when the scientist badged in and then out would also be on record.
I don’t know about union rules regarding the minimum time to put on the time card. If they’re filling out a time card like the one I fill out, they would only be putting down the number of hours worked, not when they were worked.
I saw above that you’re a honeybee scientist. So, what’s the latest on the bee sudden death syndrome?
Not sure what the point was on your post.
I asked how many grams were listed. You replied with info I have already demonstrated knowledge of. ???
I am not an expert in this field and don’t claim to be. I’ve worked with FIFRA, but with agricultural compounds, and the publications peripherally with this topic had to do with supporting some toxicity research nearly 3 decades ago. The lab work I’ve done has been in chemical or physical labs, not biological.
You might find these interesting...
And I also would be curious on any updates from those that Battle Axe might know of.
Thanks, that’s very interesting.
Oh? Here's the chart of Ivins' overtime hours:
It looks to me like Ivins overtime hours were unusual, and they happened at exactly the time that the anthrax mailer would have been working on the attack anthrax.
"Ivins psychiatrist, Dr. David S, Irwin called him homicidal, sociopathic with clear intentions.
Duley was just a therapist. She couldn't make such a diagnosis. She just told the police about the diagnosis after Ivins told his therapy group that he planned to kill his co-workers at Ft. Detrick and go out in a "blaze of glory".
There are documents which say that one of Ivins' psychiatrists thought that Ivins should have been locked up years before the anthrax attacks.
“The official record says: “
He asked me nicely to quit. Which I did. Since then I have developed more allergies to sheep, goats, deer and unwashed wool. The symptoms are anywhere from itchy eyes to full blown head to toe hives.
So I have really been out of it for some time.
When I was still inspecting, the Varroa mite and the tracheal mite were killing hives. Anything from China is a bad thing and they were importing a lot of honey back then.
If I were to guess, I would look at a variant of chalk-brood. There were two forms, a black one and a white one. American Foul Brood (Bacillus larvae) took its toll too. I had hives and lost many for apparently no reason.
I called the EPA number on my FOIA and got the huge run around. They actually did call me back twice with other numbers to try. The name has not come to me yet of the old contact, but I have 54,000 grams stuck in my head.
One more place to look.
And that they had used over 110 pounds of the stuff that is supposed to be reported in grams.
I guess I'm getting confused about the "supposed to be reported in grams"... I'm missing your point...are you implying that because it was to be reported in grams, 50,000 grams was excessive? I thought perhaps you were saying it was in solution or a conversion was wrong or something.
You'd also asked about why they didn't just get some from the chem labs and use it. Well, maybe they wanted to comply with the regulations...? Is that something so hard to believe or am I missing something?
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