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Hundreds of WikiLeaks Mirror Sites Appear
New York Times ^ | 12-5-10 | RAVI SOMAIYA

Posted on 12/06/2010 1:31:07 PM PST by FS11

Since several major Internet companies cut off services to WikiLeaks in recent days, activists have created hundreds of mirror sites, Web sites that host exact copies of another site’s content, making censorship difficult.

The collective Anonymous, an informal but notorious group of hackers and activists, also declared war on Sunday against enemies of Mr. Assange, calling on supporters to attack sites companies that do not support WikiLeaks and to spread the leaked material online.

(Excerpt) Read more at nytimes.com ...


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: wikileaks; wiklileaks

1 posted on 12/06/2010 1:31:08 PM PST by FS11
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To: FS11

“The collective Anonymous, an informal but notorious group of hackers and activists”

Nyt sprechen ze bullcrappen.


2 posted on 12/06/2010 1:34:44 PM PST by Christian Engineer Mass
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To: Christian Engineer Mass

Lots of info connecting BO to WikiLeaks here:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2637720/posts


3 posted on 12/06/2010 1:36:41 PM PST by FS11
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To: Christian Engineer Mass

There is also info connecting BO to Annonymous here:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2637720/posts


4 posted on 12/06/2010 1:38:21 PM PST by FS11
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To: FS11
Gregg Housh, who has previously worked on such campaigns with Anonymous ... said of the campaign ... “The reason is amazingly simple,” “We all believe that information should be free, and the Internet should be free.”

Ironically and sadly their actions will precipitate the end of a free internet.

They have miscaluclated that the power of the internet is stronger than that of government. If necessary, regardless of the cost, government will "reboot" the entire internet. The alternative will be for them to give up power. They will not do that.

5 posted on 12/06/2010 1:44:29 PM PST by DWar ("The ultimate destination of Political Correctness is totalitarianism.")
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To: DWar
The alternative will be for them to give up power. They will not do that.

They may not have a choice. The Holy Roman Church in 1520 tried to stamp out Martin Luther and his heretical ideas. And it was more powerful and had a greater reach than did any government does today.

6 posted on 12/06/2010 1:49:33 PM PST by abb ("What ISN'T in the news is often more important than what IS." Ed Biersmith, 1942 -)
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To: FS11

I reviewed that post. I saw no definitive evidence connecting Obamao to Wikileaks. Where’s your evidence for that assertion?


7 posted on 12/06/2010 1:50:38 PM PST by BuckeyeTexan (There are those that break and bend. I'm the other kind.)
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To: FS11

This is starting to look like Lisbeth Salander.


8 posted on 12/06/2010 1:55:41 PM PST by nina0113
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To: FS11
The Feds are salivating at this, I believe. Look for the feds to try to tighten control of the Internet in the US for "national security".

Never let a crisis go to waste.

9 posted on 12/06/2010 2:05:35 PM PST by FReepaholic (Yoiks...and away!!)
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To: BuckeyeTexan
All that is needed for a Grand Jury Investigation to indict BO and his WikiLeaks co-conspirators are "tips, rumor or the personal knowledge of the grand jurors." Justice Lewis Powell ruled:“ Such an (Grand Jury) investigation may be triggered by tips, rumors… or the personal knowledge of the grand jurors.” http://thesteadydrip.blogspot.com/2010/07/taking-aka-obama-directly-before-scotus.html
10 posted on 12/06/2010 2:10:35 PM PST by FS11
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To: Christian Engineer Mass

These starfish oganizations are very difficult to stop once they get started.

http://www.amazon.com/Starfish-Spider-Unstoppable-Leaderless-Organizations/dp/1591841836/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1291673228&sr=8-1

About 1/2 of this book is pretty interesting.


11 posted on 12/06/2010 2:24:02 PM PST by mad puppy (Steve McIntyre, we owe you frothy cold one. Thanks.)
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To: FS11

You don’t seem to understand the difference between “investigate” and “indict.”

Yes, a grand jury can investigate based on tips, rumors, or personal knowledge, but there must be convincing evidence that a crime was committed before a grand jury will actually indict (i.e. charge or accuse) someone.

I see no evidence connecting Obamao to Wikileaks in what you provided that would warrant a grand jury investigation, much less prompt an indictment.


12 posted on 12/06/2010 2:37:17 PM PST by BuckeyeTexan (There are those that break and bend. I'm the other kind.)
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To: FS11

You don’t seem to understand the difference between “investigate” and “indict.”

Yes, a grand jury can investigate based on tips, rumors, or personal knowledge, but there must be convincing evidence that a crime was committed before a grand jury will actually indict (i.e. charge or accuse) someone.

I see no evidence connecting Obamao to Wikileaks in what you provided that would warrant a grand jury investigation, much less prompt an indictment.


13 posted on 12/06/2010 2:37:29 PM PST by BuckeyeTexan (There are those that break and bend. I'm the other kind.)
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To: abb
They may not have a choice. The Holy Roman Church in 1520 tried to stamp out Martin Luther

The Holy Roman Church lost control because the governments of the day saw the advent of Protestantism and their own embrace of it as an opportunity to wrest power from the Church. Thus the monolithic control of the Church was forever fractured.

...his heretical ideas

Ideas don't require government permission to be held in the mind and heart.

What is being attempted here is the implementation of the use of a tool, the internet, that is ultimately controlled by governments and to conduct activity that those governments see as life threatening to them. If Assange and Anonymous are allowed to get away with it, the very foundation of the power of those governments dissolves. They will not allow that.

He has declared war on every government in the world simultaneously. All governments will ultimately see this and cooperate to extinguish Assange and his effort. They will first try to modify the current internet to mitigate the cost of a total restart. This will include draconian controls, monitoring, user cost and regulation. It will never be the free flowing communication vehicle of today.

If that fails, they will extinguish the internet, as we know it, shut it down, disconnect it, regardless of the cost. Then they will reconstitute it in a totally different and controlled format, different hardware, software, code, architecture, everything. It will be rebuilt so that nothing like this will ever be able to happen again.

The alternative to this is to abdicate control of their nation. They will never do that, regardless of the cost.

After the successful Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor in December of 1941, Japanese Admiral Isoroku Yamamoto, rather than rejoice is reported to have said, "I fear all we have done is to awaken a sleeping giant and fill him with a terrible resolve."

I think this is also the result of Assange's actions. Future generations will look back and lament this as the beginning of the end to internet freedom.

14 posted on 12/06/2010 2:47:18 PM PST by DWar ("The ultimate destination of Political Correctness is totalitarianism.")
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To: BuckeyeTexan

You haven’t a clue about the law, the Burden of Proof before a Grand Jury or the information required for an indictment.

http://standupamericaus.com/our-privilege-our-right-and-our-duty-civilian-grand-jury:33320


15 posted on 12/06/2010 2:55:40 PM PST by FS11
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To: nina0113

This is starting to look like Lisbeth Salander.


Hmm...well, Assange was accused of raping a Swedish gal...now Globalists want to tattoo and do some dragging on Assange


16 posted on 12/06/2010 3:08:02 PM PST by UCFRoadWarrior (Communist Chinese workers aren't paying for those welfare and unemployment benefits)
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To: DWar

I see it exactly the opposite. I see it as the long-awaited and long-needed beginning of the rollback of government encroachment against freedom.

They cannot stop it no more than could Pope Leo X stop Martin Luther.

Oh, they’ll try, but they will fail. I would bet my life on it.

Because that’s what’s at stake.


17 posted on 12/06/2010 3:18:00 PM PST by abb ("What ISN'T in the news is often more important than what IS." Ed Biersmith, 1942 -)
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To: abb
I see it exactly the opposite.

I appreciate your enthusiasm and the longing of your heart.

I think I have laid out a pretty powerful rationale as to why this cannot happen regardless of your wishes or mine.

Rather than just wish for this kind of utopian result, can you lay out a scenario by which this can happen?

When governments have ultimate control of the entire system, to change it, kill it or restart it, at their choice, why would they allow this cancer upon their life to exist?

If the people react at all (they'll bitch and moan and do nothing) What possible meaningful action could they take to force governments to acquiesce?

They cannot stop it no more than could Pope Leo X stop Martin Luther.

You can not continue to attempt to use the start of the Reformation as an analogous situation. There is simply no comparison to an idea held in the mind and the use of a tool every part of which is controlled by the government opposed to it's being used in this way.

I would bet my life on it.

If you're serious, sadly, you will lose it.

There are so many ways a real impact can be made on behalf of liberty. Standing in front of the tank in Tianamen Square only works the first time.

18 posted on 12/06/2010 3:51:10 PM PST by DWar ("The ultimate destination of Political Correctness is totalitarianism.")
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To: FS11

Apparently, I know a great deal more than you since you don’t understand the difference between “investigate” and “indict.”

The “American Grand Jury” stuff is pure horsesh*t. A grand jury must be empaneled by law before it has the power of presentment. Civilians running around forming grand juries on their own and handing down indictments are as dangerous to our civil liberties as would be civilians forming juries on their own and handing down judgments.


19 posted on 12/06/2010 3:52:58 PM PST by BuckeyeTexan (There are those that break and bend. I'm the other kind.)
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To: FS11

Apparently, I know a great deal more than you since you don’t understand the difference between “investigate” and “indict.”

The “American Grand Jury” stuff is pure horsesh*t. A grand jury must be empaneled by law before it has the power of presentment. Civilians running around forming grand juries on their own and handing down indictments are as dangerous to our civil liberties as would be civilians forming juries on their own and handing down judgments.


20 posted on 12/06/2010 3:53:12 PM PST by BuckeyeTexan (There are those that break and bend. I'm the other kind.)
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To: DWar

Are you of the opinion that Dec. 21st may be a day that the government might try to shut down opposition on the Internet...like FR?


21 posted on 12/06/2010 3:58:57 PM PST by hoagy62 (.)
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To: BuckeyeTexan
Don't flatter yourself buck, you obviously very little about the law. You are righ about one thing, however, "The “American Grand Jury” stuff is pure horsesh*t." Read this and educate yourself, buck. http://standupamericaus.com/our-privilege-our-right-and-our-duty-civilian-grand-jury:33320 20 posted on Monday, December 06, 2010 5:53:12 PM by BuckeyeTexan
22 posted on 12/06/2010 4:05:29 PM PST by FS11
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To: FS11

Don’t flatter yourself buck, you obviously know very little about the law.

You are right about one thing, however, “The “American Grand Jury” stuff is pure horsesh*t.”

Read this and educate yourself, buck.

http://standupamericaus.com/our-privilege-our-right-and-our-duty-civilian-grand-jury:33320


23 posted on 12/06/2010 4:08:57 PM PST by FS11
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To: FS11

I read it. It’s the same thing as the American Grand Jury - civilians running around forming their own grand juries. It’s horsesh*t.


24 posted on 12/06/2010 4:39:36 PM PST by BuckeyeTexan (There are those that break and bend. I'm the other kind.)
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To: DWar

The Reformation was made possible BECAUSE of a tool (movable type) which in its day was analogous to the internet. Governments tried for hundreds of years to control printing, but were successful only to a limited degree.

The same will happen with the internet. Government will fail in its efforts to control it.

That’s my prediction, and I’m sticking to it.


25 posted on 12/06/2010 5:16:05 PM PST by abb ("What ISN'T in the news is often more important than what IS." Ed Biersmith, 1942 -)
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To: BuckeyeTexan

You reveal how little you know about the law when your only legal analysis is the word, “horsesh*t.”

You are right about one thing, however, “The “American Grand Jury” stuff is pure horsesh*t.”

Read this and educate yourself, buck.

http://thesteadydrip.blogspot.com/2010/07/taking-aka-obama-directly-before-scotus.html


26 posted on 12/06/2010 5:19:40 PM PST by FS11
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To: FS11

The site to which you linked describes the same process as the American Grand Jury - civilians running around forming their own grand juries and handing out irrelevant indictments, which as I said, is pure horsesh*t.


27 posted on 12/06/2010 6:02:07 PM PST by BuckeyeTexan (There are those that break and bend. I'm the other kind.)
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To: BuckeyeTexan

You are really showing your ignorance with your 1 word,
“horsesh*t” response.

Here’s more reading for your education.

http://thesteadydrip.blogspot.com/2009/06/how-to-start-and-lead-citizens-grand.html


28 posted on 12/06/2010 6:09:51 PM PST by FS11
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To: hoagy62
Are you of the opinion that Dec. 21st may be a day that the government might try to shut down opposition on the Internet...like FR?

Government opposition will not shut down the internet on exactly 12/21. But the FCC assumption of jurisdiction is the beginning. Look at point 22 below.

I've been saying for a little while now that the ultra leftists that now almost fully control our government and it's bureaucracy will not give up this, the best opportunity to seize permanent power in the US. They will act under the false premise and in the name of anti-terrorism and the protection of the nation.

More so now than at any time in American history American leadership is not like you and me. They are ultra radical, Muslim sympathizing, facist socialists. They will use anyone do anything to gain perpetual power that lasts far into the future.

Look for one or more of the following events in the Spring. This will be the pretext for seizing permanent power.

1- A Chinese preemptive strike on US satellites
2- A Chinese premptive strike on US computer infrastructure.
3- A Chinese preemptive EMP strike on Hawaii.
4- A Chinese preemptive EMP strike on US forces in Japan
5- A crushing Chinese invasion of Taiwan
6- The North Korean invasion of the South
7- A Chinese tidal wave pouring over the North Korean border, rushing to the front lines, which by then will be south of Seoul and sweeping the South Korean forces into the East China Sea within 30 days of the begining of hostilities. The 28,000 Americans there will be dead.
8- Turkey leaving NATO, realigning with the rest of the muslim world and confiscating US nucular weapons there.
9- Not necessarily coordinated with China but seizing the opportunity, a combined ‘muslim world’ attack on Israel led by Turkey, which recently has been holding joint military exercizes with China.
10- A huge Al-Qaeda terrorist attack in the US. In multiple locations and as big as 911.
11- A huge “Tet-like” offensive in both Afganistan and Iraq co-sponsored by Al-Qaeda and Iran with an Iranian invasion of eastern Iraq.
12- The President of the United States calling for United Nations condemnation and declaring the US can no longer be the policeman of the world and ordering home all remaining troops stationed abroad.
13- Home based federal troops become the foundation of his power to exact dictatorial control within America.
14- Military leaders who oppose him will be removed with greater swiftness than Truman removed MacArthur.

Quickly followed by recognition of the opportunity to totally restructure American society. Keep in mind most of the American population will go along with the following, grudgingly at first, as necessary for the protection of the nation from terrorism. The few resisters will be delt with severely and quickly.

15- “Temporary” expansion of the Patriot Act giving the President dictatorial powers to “Protect the people from terrorism”.
16- “Temporarily” setting aside the Constitution for the preservation of the nation.
17- Federalizing all law enforcement agencies and National Guard units to coordinate the fight against the terrorists.
18- Outlawing of opposition speech as aiding and abetting the terrorists.
19- Stationing of Federal troops inside the Supreme Court and the arrest and imprisonment of any terrorist sympathizers who speak against the administration.
20- Stationing of Federal troops inside the Senate and Congressional chambers and the arrest and imprisonment of any terrorist sympathizers who speak against the administration.
21- Stationing of Federal troops inside all media offices and the arrest and imprisonment of any terrorist sympathizers who speak against the administration.
22- Confiscation of the internet as a terrorist tool.
23- Confiscation of all privately held firearms.
24- Outlawing of the right of all assembly. (Political, religious)
25- Paycheck deductions no longer handled by employers but by government bureaucrats who take what the government wants and gives you the rest.
26- Federal anti-terrorism counselors stationed in every public school to gather information on terrorist sympathizing opponents.
27- Federal tracking of citizens through cell phone gps.

These things will happen quickly. Americans will be more concerned about feeding their families in the midst of a depression.

Americans don't realize how much power the presidency has with the power of executive order and the Patriot act. It is the framework, already in place, for authoritarian rule. All that is missing is a leadership commited to and willing to 'go for it' a fascist dictatorship.

President for life Barak Obama. The more I think about it the more I'm inclined to believe it's a real possibility.

29 posted on 12/06/2010 6:11:44 PM PST by DWar ("The ultimate destination of Political Correctness is totalitarianism.")
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To: mad puppy

Aye! I stalled out about 1/2 way through the book. It does point ot the way decentralized organizations will topple top down organizations and make them go poof!


30 posted on 12/06/2010 6:14:50 PM PST by listenhillary (A very simple fix to our dilemma - We need to reward the makers instead of the takers)
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To: FS11

Are you dense? Citizens do not have the authority to form their own grand juries outside of the legal system. Would you answer an indictment handed down by a bunch of liberals who got together outside of the legal system and charged you with a crime?

Again, horsesh*t.


31 posted on 12/06/2010 6:33:02 PM PST by BuckeyeTexan (There are those that break and bend. I'm the other kind.)
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To: FS11

Are you dense? Citizens do not have the authority to form their own grand juries outside of the legal system. Would you answer an indictment handed down by a bunch of liberals who got together outside of the legal system and charged you with a crime?

Again, horsesh*t.


32 posted on 12/06/2010 6:33:16 PM PST by BuckeyeTexan (There are those that break and bend. I'm the other kind.)
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To: FS11

You have any record of actual convictions for cases handled by your “citizens grand juries?”

I noticed the “steady drip blogspot” individual advertizes he/she is a lifetime member of MENSA?

That give you any concern?

Anybody that “smart” should know to not brag like that; lest their ultimate common sense stupidity overshadow their test taking ability.


33 posted on 12/06/2010 6:33:38 PM PST by truth_seeker
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To: abb
Moveable type used to promulgate unconventional ideas could be operated secretly hence independently from government awareness in 1520. Each little press had an independent operational ability and affect. It was simply not possible for the governments of the world to know where each one was and destroy them all at the same time. If they could have they certainly would have.

In the current situation they can and will. The internet needs a massively gigantic architecture of interconnectedness and depends on governments for continued existence. The entire internet could be 'turned off' within a week, perhaps a day. Whether the governments of the world are willing to do this depends on the level of threat they perceive. Remember how quickly air traffic was halted in America after 911?

I recognize your passion and your desire for freedom and openness. Sadly, you misjudge the corruption of government and the lengths to which they are willing to go to retain their power.

The actions of Wikileaks will destroy the internet as we know it.

34 posted on 12/06/2010 6:41:41 PM PST by DWar ("The ultimate destination of Political Correctness is totalitarianism.")
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To: DWar

Ain’t happening. Freedom wins - always.


35 posted on 12/07/2010 4:51:33 AM PST by abb ("What ISN'T in the news is often more important than what IS." Ed Biersmith, 1942 -)
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To: abb
Ain’t happening. Freedom wins - always

Recorded history says otherwise.
Or maybe if John Lennon had only been born soon enough to sing "Imagine" there would have been no Nebuchadnezzar, Gengis Khan, Darius of Assyria, Attila the Hun, Ivan the Terrible, Atta Turk, Mao, Lenin, Stalin, Hitler, Pol Pot, Iddi Amin, Communism, Muslim extremeism, or human slavery from 10,000 BC to the Sudan, Niger and Mauritania today, Gosh, Polly, this time we can put on a show, all hold hands, sing Kumbaya and maybe it'll be different!

George Santayna said,"those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it".

I'll paraphrase that, Those who cannot remember the past ACCURATELY are condemned to repeat it.

Individual liberty is a fairly rare experience for the majority of humanity in history.

The only difference between an 'extreme paranoid' and an 'extreme optimist is one fails to recognize the positive while the other fails to recognize the negative. Both live in a world existing only in their imagination. Both are a danger often getting others killed along with themselves.

Happy Trails!

36 posted on 12/07/2010 1:19:37 PM PST by DWar ("The ultimate destination of Political Correctness is totalitarianism.")
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To: DWar

Ok. I’ll bite. We’re all gonna be taken over by totalitarians and be forced into slave camps.

What do you suggest be done about it? Or is it too late? And if it is, why are you and I bothering to post on a bulletin board that tends to uphold free thought and action?


37 posted on 12/07/2010 1:31:38 PM PST by abb ("What ISN'T in the news is often more important than what IS." Ed Biersmith, 1942 -)
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To: DWar; abb
Thanks for the very interesting and civil discussion. Assuming DWar's knowledge if the architecture of the internet is correct, I, unfortunately, believe DWar's conclusions are more likely correct.

My only objection to DWar's arguments is with the assumption of how far troops and law enforcement personel in the USA will go in opposing the citizens, even after a major terrorist attack. Given the choice of siding with their families or government thugs, the troops may choose their families.

38 posted on 12/07/2010 1:56:11 PM PST by jonathonandjennifer
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To: jonathonandjennifer
questions, questions:

1)How many souls in the US standing armed forces?

2)How many private citizens that are discharged/retired from armed forces of the US?

3)How many people in the CONUS that can hit a pie plate at 600 yards with a rifle?

39 posted on 12/07/2010 2:11:35 PM PST by going hot (Happiness is a Momma Deuce)
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To: jonathonandjennifer; DWar

I’ve had this discussion with my older brother for over forty years. “They” are gonna take over and “they” already have the power and the technology. “They” control everything from wall street to every level of government.

Yadda, yadda, yadda.

He’s been telling me for ten years that “they” can shut down the internet with the flip of a switch.

If so, why haven’t “they” done it already?

Because “they” can’t, that’s why. The citizens still run the show here in the USA.

I refuse to conduct my life where I would retreat into a bunker and surround myself with food and weapons and wait for “them” to come and get me.

I choose to live a normal life and fight “them” with the new tools technology has given us all - namely, the internet.

I’m about to leave and go cover a local school board meeting and write about it in my online newspaper that I’ve been running for a year and a half. I got tired of trying to get the newspapers and TV stations to cover events as they really happen, so I decided to do it myself.

That’s what I’m going to do.


40 posted on 12/07/2010 2:16:56 PM PST by abb ("What ISN'T in the news is often more important than what IS." Ed Biersmith, 1942 -)
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To: going hot
questions, questions:

1)How many souls in the US standing armed forces?--no clue; 500,000?

2)How many private citizens that are discharged/retired from armed forces of the US? 1,000,000? under age 65.

3)How many people in the CONUS that can hit a pie plate at 600 yards with a rifle?--200,000?

I really don't know the answers to your questions. My point was that after considering questions like yours and mine, the "authorities" are likely to conclude that the only wining move in imposing tyranny on the American people is not to force a violent reaction. Slow and steady has been working fine for them since the 1930's.

41 posted on 12/07/2010 2:27:15 PM PST by jonathonandjennifer
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To: abb
Ok. I’ll bite. We’re all gonna be taken over by totalitarians and be forced into slave camps. What do you suggest be done about it?

There are no magic bullets. Only tedious hard work.

1- Become a realist. Do not support quixotic movements like WikiLeaks that will only drive government to greater levels of secrecy and force them to greater measures of control over the one FREE worldwide communication system that ever existed.
2- Support with time & money, true grassroots movements that have a chance to make a real difference for freedom like the Teaparty movement.
3- Develop and espouse a conservatism that does not settle for a little less liberalism than the Democrats promote, but father one that seeks to ROLL BACK the bureacracy.
4- Support with time & money those running for office who share your values.
5- Send regular email to your state & federal legislators articulating your values and either praising or condemning them for their support of same.
6- Have an email list of your moderate and conservative friends and regularly email them links to articles that support conservative values.
7- Have a separate email list of your liberal friends or acquaintances and once a week email them a personal comment or two and a link by common sense and polite conservatives. Walter Williams and Michael Medved are 2 of my favorites for this.
8- Have a Facebook account and develop F/B friends. Once a day or every other day post a link to a Williams or Medved type conservative article. Mine has over 3,000 friends.
9- Develop a Twitter account and work it the same as your Facebook. Mine has over 85,000 connections.
10- Encourage all your conservative friends to do the same things you are.

Freedom is never created top down but always bottom up, one idea at a time, mind to mind and person to person. It is always grassroots driven and when successful it is always achieved by putting principled, grassroots leaders in power.

Zero's latest apparent cave in on the Bush tax cuts, if he sticks to it, may be the harbinger of his weakness of character to follow through on the ultra-liberal agenda of the Democratic hard left. I hope so 'cause that would be an indication that many of my fears will not be realized. Unless the firestorm from the left tempers any metal he has into the resolve one would need for that kind of takeover.

Even so the above is a blueprint for action to make a real difference.

42 posted on 12/07/2010 2:39:37 PM PST by DWar ("The ultimate destination of Political Correctness is totalitarianism.")
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To: abb
“They” are gonna take over and “they” already have the power and the technology.--My comment was that if "they (basicly, people with money/power who think they know best and should run the world)" want to censor the internet and technically can, they will. I don't agree they will shut it down and start over; that would destroy world finance and many other human endevors.

Because “they” can’t, that’s why. The citizens still run the show here in the USA.--I agree. See my post above.

43 posted on 12/07/2010 2:44:39 PM PST by jonathonandjennifer
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To: jonathonandjennifer
My only objection to DWar's arguments is with the assumption of how far troops and law enforcement personel in the USA will go in opposing the citizens

I don't want to be right.
I hope my fears are all proven wrong.

Perhaps America is truly so exceptional that the humans who lead us are not corrupt and the people who influence them not hungry for power. Perhaps the people who serve in American law enforcement are not suceptable to mental persuasion or conditioning.

Do you see TSA agents refusing to grope nuns and 5 year crying old children? They're just doing their job. Isn't that what so many said at the Nurmberg trials? This is all part of the mental conditioning necessary to create a compliant populous AND an armed service convinced they are protecting the nation.

It's comforting to think that American service people would refuse to behave so coersively towards American citizens but German troops showed little revulsion to draconian behavior with German citizens. Did they love their mothers and fathers any less than Americans do?

Furthermore, by stationing Florida people in California and Oregon people in Maine there is no risk of family feelings being involved. And if you station mostly white troops in minority areas and minority troops in white areas natural personal empathy is even further reduced. Was there any revolt by the troops in WWII as they rounded up the Japanese American citizens and put them into internment camps?

Again, I hope I'm wrong. But the infrastructure is in place. America is awash in gasoline and all that's required is a leader so corrupt and power hungry that he is willing to strike the match.

44 posted on 12/07/2010 3:36:20 PM PST by DWar ("The ultimate destination of Political Correctness is totalitarianism.")
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To: jonathonandjennifer
FYI:
There are just under 1.5 million in the active US military and about the same in the active reserve.
Number of veterans ... 9 million, 1.7 million under age 35.

the "authorities" are likely to conclude that the only wining move in imposing tyranny on the American people is not to force a violent reaction. Slow and steady has been working fine for them since the 1930's.

Your assumed conclusion has been the operational one for decades. However it has been the preferred one used because those in power had neither the legal framework nor an extreme enough ideology to propel them to take the radical action I think they might now take.

In the past "winning", even for the most extreme lefty leader was to preserve the nation relatively intact and prosperous. Their definition for "winning" is different, today than it was in the past. With the best opportunity in American history to take permanent control and since they want an America that is less of a leader and more of an equal to other nations anyway, taking permanent control now of a less prosperous nation is OK by them.

My view is that they are so corrupt that taking power is their primary concern and all others pale in significance to that. Is Kim Il Jung more concerned about his personal power or the prosperity of North Korea? This new ultra- radical leadership is cut from the same cloth as Kim.

45 posted on 12/07/2010 5:01:38 PM PST by DWar ("The ultimate destination of Political Correctness is totalitarianism.")
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To: AdmSmith; Arthur Wildfire! March; Berosus; bigheadfred; ColdOne; Convert from ECUSA; Delacon; ...

Thanks FS11.
The collective Anonymous, an informal but notorious group of hackers and activists, also declared war on Sunday against enemies of Mr. Assange, calling on supporters to attack sites companies that do not support WikiLeaks and to spread the leaked material online.

46 posted on 12/07/2010 5:31:07 PM PST by SunkenCiv (The 2nd Amendment follows right behind the 1st because some people are hard of hearing.)
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To: DWar

Items 2 through 10, already done and have been doing for years. Additionally, I publish an online newspaper that reports on state/local matters from a taxpayer viewpoint.

Glad to see you think that all is not lost and there is hope.


47 posted on 12/07/2010 5:47:05 PM PST by abb ("What ISN'T in the news is often more important than what IS." Ed Biersmith, 1942 -)
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To: jonathonandjennifer
I don't agree they will shut it down and start over; that would destroy world finance and many other human endevors.

That depends on how big a threat WikiLeaks and others are perceived to be. The US government shut down all air traffic after 911 until they were certain the threat to the nation was contained. That cost billions.

And given the suicide bomber mentality of the WikiLeaks people, I think governments will be forced into extreme action, soon.
Info Pirates Seek Alternative Internet

If the threat is seen as life threatening to government, as I believe they'll see it, they'll try to contain the damage within the current system but ultimately will start it all over if they think that's what it'll take. That's why I think Assange and his supporters have catastrophically overestimated their power and underestimated the power of government.

The Free internet is dead. Quixotic utopians just don't know it yet.

Because “they” can’t, that’s why. The citizens still run the show here in the USA.--I agree.

This is a new era. While the USA has been drifting left for decades, the election of ZERO has eventuated in the biggest lurch leftward in history. There is a new reality at work and a new and very different level of corrupt leadership.

The citizens do not "run the show" in America. If they did they would not be allowing child molestation and nude photography of their wives and daughters at the airport.

Democrats have stated openly that Obama will be running the nation by Executive Order for the next 2 years bypassing the new Republican Congress. Congress runs nothing. The Executive branch runs everything through the buraucracies; the FCC, FTC, FDA, CIA, FBI, and mostly by Homeland Security and the Patriot Act.

As it is 99.9% of Americans are focused on just surviving this month. They believe that 100% effort on their part is still so tiny it doesn't matter whether they actually do anything or not.

Our only hope is to create a grassroots revival of desire for freedom such that people actually pay attention and take action to extend it. The minority in power are working 24/7 to take it from us.

It's possible that the grassroots enthusiasm for the Tea Party and Sarah Palin are the last best hope that freedom in America has.

48 posted on 12/07/2010 6:01:25 PM PST by DWar ("The ultimate destination of Political Correctness is totalitarianism.")
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