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Breyer: Founding Fathers Would Have Allowed Restrictions on Guns
Foxnews ^ | Dec 12, 2010 | Foxnews

Posted on 12/12/2010 11:33:59 AM PST by driftdiver

If you look at the values and the historical record, you will see that the Founding Fathers never intended guns to go unregulated, Supreme Court Justice Stephen Breyer contended Sunday.

Appearing on "Fox News Sunday," Breyer said history stands with the dissenters in the court's decision to overturn a Washington, D.C., handgun ban in the 2008 case "D.C. v. Heller."

Breyer wrote the dissent and was joined by Justices John Paul Stevens, David H. Souter and Ruth Bader Ginsburg. He said historians would side with him in the case because they have concluded that Founding Father James Madison was more worried that the Constitution may not be ratified than he was about granting individuals the right to bear arms.

(Excerpt) Read more at foxnews.com ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Front Page News
KEYWORDS: 2ndamendment; banglist; billofrights; davidsouter; johnpaulstevens; partyoftreason; ruthbaderginsburg; scotus; secondamendment; shallnotbeinfringed; stephenbreyer
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To: driftdiver

The same Founding Fathers who drafted a Constitution with an implicit right of civilian ownership of naval artillery? Those Founding fathers? Or the ones he wishes had existed, and based on the Constitution that exists only in Breyer’s head?


101 posted on 12/12/2010 3:10:17 PM PST by rmlew (You want change? Vote for the most conservative electable in your state or district.)
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To: Farmer Dean
The son-of-a-bitch is only 72. After that statement though, we should move to have him retired non compos mentis.

Nam Vet

102 posted on 12/12/2010 3:11:37 PM PST by Nam Vet (Are you better off than you were 4 trillion dollars ago?)
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To: elcid1970
This recalls an earlier chief justice who held that the Second Amendment only guaranteed the right to own weapons of the same technology as the year the Bill of Rights was ratified.

He actually held up a muzzleloader flintlock musket and said this is what you can own under 2A as he saw it.

Since the judiciary is clearly interested in precedent, this earlier justice would have to admit to ownership and use of all arms up to the first gun control legislation that was passed. I am curious if we are talking about the 1930's now.


103 posted on 12/12/2010 3:16:04 PM PST by magooey (The Mandate of Heaven resides in the hearts of men.)
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To: rmlew

implicit right of civilian ownership of naval artillery?
***Interesting. This is the first I’ve heard of this angle. Do you have some further references or links?


104 posted on 12/12/2010 3:16:07 PM PST by Kevmo (Turning the Party over to the so-called moderates wouldn't make any sense at all. ~Ronald Reagan)
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To: Sender

When that happens, there is really nothing left to do short of a revolution or find another country that still has it’s values. Yes, there are some, you must have to do your4 research. We MUST win in 2012. It is a MUST!


105 posted on 12/12/2010 3:21:39 PM PST by mojitojoe (In itÂ’s 1600 years of existence, Islam has 2 main accomplishments, psychotic violence and goat curr)
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To: Kevmo
"implicit right of civilian ownership of naval artillery?" ***Interesting. This is the first I’ve heard of this angle. Do you have some further references or links?

The U.S. Constitution provides in Article I, Section 8:
The Congress shall have Power ... To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water;
Letters of Marque and Reprisal allowed armed civilian ships to capture enemy shipping in a manner that would otherwise be piracy. That these and other civilian ships would be armed was a given in the 18th century.
106 posted on 12/12/2010 3:22:09 PM PST by rmlew (You want change? Vote for the most conservative electable in your state or district.)
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To: DemonDeac

That is a pretty ignorant comment. Thomas has a very unique and Originalist view of the Constitution, and it is one that is both deep in thought and far more reflective of the founders intent than most others. Thomas sometimes gets things wrong (all of the Justices do) but he also gets a whole lot of things right. In fact, he sometimes gets things right when Scalia gets them wrong (IE: Raich).


107 posted on 12/12/2010 3:30:26 PM PST by freedomwarrior998
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To: elcid1970
"This recalls an earlier chief justice who held that the Second Amendment only guaranteed the right to own weapons of the same technology as the year the Bill of Rights was ratified."

Which leftwing blockhead said that? That's like saying freedom of the press only applied to printing presses and only to those of the type available in the 18th century.

108 posted on 12/12/2010 3:33:04 PM PST by drpix
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To: driftdiver

Damned right they would have supported restrictions. That’s why the duel between Alexander Hamilton and Aaron Burr never happened.


109 posted on 12/12/2010 3:35:54 PM PST by Enterprise (TSA - The Silly Agency)
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To: magooey

Indeed! Did that Justice, or his security own Tommyguns at the time? Precedent set! My christmas shopping just got a whole lot easier.


110 posted on 12/12/2010 3:40:11 PM PST by txhurl
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To: rmlew

Basically privateers, right? Sounds a lot like militia to me. Thanks for the link.


111 posted on 12/12/2010 3:47:19 PM PST by Kevmo (Turning the Party over to the so-called moderates wouldn't make any sense at all. ~Ronald Reagan)
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To: SampleMan

Please send those quotes to each member of the SCOTUS.


112 posted on 12/12/2010 3:49:22 PM PST by little jeremiah (Courage is not simply one of virtues, but the form of every virtue at the testing point.CSLewis)
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To: driftdiver

He’s right about living in a visual age. Watching his interview two words came to my mind: Arrogant and Creepy.


113 posted on 12/12/2010 3:50:44 PM PST by carmody
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To: driftdiver
Yeah, those redcoats headed to Lexington and Concord to put perfectly legal restrictions on privately held cannons and powder, and those outlaws stood in the way!
114 posted on 12/12/2010 3:51:18 PM PST by Gondring (Paul Revere would have been flamed as a naysayer troll and told to go back to Boston.)
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To: rmlew

There are so many laws & precedents & rabbit holes in the constitution now, that even members of the SCOTUS are just following their own emotional opinions rather than seriously deliberating the issues. It’s a tragedy, and a sign that this republic could be doomed.


115 posted on 12/12/2010 3:51:25 PM PST by Kevmo (Turning the Party over to the so-called moderates wouldn't make any sense at all. ~Ronald Reagan)
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To: allblues

I think a studied person would realize that Justice Thomas ia a steady proponent of natural law.


116 posted on 12/12/2010 3:51:47 PM PST by Yorktownpatriot
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To: Nam Vet

I’m siding with you on this one also!


117 posted on 12/12/2010 3:53:29 PM PST by Yorktownpatriot
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To: Nam Vet

>The son-of-a-bitch is only 72. After that statement though, we should move to have him retired non compos mentis.

What’s sad is that such a statement isn’t considered treason, which the Constitution defines as “Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort.”

The reasoning is simple; the Second Amendment states:
A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

Now, obviously there is a relationship between the militia and the right to bear arms shown here, namely: an individual member of society cannot function as a member of the militia without the equipment thereof. Therefore to bar access to such “terrible implements of war” is exactly equivalent (constitutionally speaking) to refusing to supply the army.

Therefore, because this is an exact equivalence, forbidding the general citizen the right to keep and bear arms *IS* supplying aid and comfort to America’s enemies, precisely because it denies otherwise capable militia members from the militia which *IS* the security for the free state.

Q.E.D.


118 posted on 12/12/2010 3:56:08 PM PST by OneWingedShark (Q: Why am I here? A: To do Justly, to love mercy, and to walk humbly with my God.)
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To: trumandogz
The Constitution is clear, there are no restrictions on guns and there are no restrictions on speech.

Unless you're Assange, and you have the goods on banksters.

119 posted on 12/12/2010 4:01:52 PM PST by InternetTuffGuy
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To: Kevmo

From the Constitution:
“To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water;”

From Wikipedia:
In the days of fighting sail, a Letter of Marque and Reprisal was a government license authorizing a private vessel to attack and capture enemy vessels, and bring them before admiralty courts for condemnation and sale. Cruising for prizes with a Letter of Marque was considered an honorable calling combining patriotism and profit, in contrast to unlicensed piracy which was universally reviled.
[ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Letter_of_marque ]

So, obviously the Letter of Marque requires a fully stocked and armed warship.


120 posted on 12/12/2010 4:03:52 PM PST by OneWingedShark (Q: Why am I here? A: To do Justly, to love mercy, and to walk humbly with my God.)
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To: Kevmo

The Judiciary was not meant to be a nascent Krytocracy.


121 posted on 12/12/2010 4:13:18 PM PST by rmlew (You want change? Vote for the most conservative electable in your state or district.)
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To: driftdiver

>He’s a Supreme Court Justice and hasn’t figured out the govt didn’t grant individuals squat.

There are actually some rights that are NOT inherent, those ARE granted by some institution/group; the right to vote is an example. There is, in a strict monarchy, no right to vote; however, there is *ALWAYS* the right for you to defend yourself... even in our own prisons, where weapons aren’t allowed & freedom restricted, the inmate has the right to defend himself.


122 posted on 12/12/2010 4:13:52 PM PST by OneWingedShark (Q: Why am I here? A: To do Justly, to love mercy, and to walk humbly with my God.)
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To: driftdiver
..shall not be infringed
123 posted on 12/12/2010 4:16:29 PM PST by 2111USMC
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To: OneWingedShark

Voting is a privilege granted to citizens who meet certain requirements.


124 posted on 12/12/2010 4:17:05 PM PST by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: driftdiver
"Are you a sportsman? Do you like to shoot pistols at targets? Well, get on the subway and go to Maryland. There is no problem, I don't think, for anyone who really wants to have a gun."

"And if gun laws render you unarmed and result in your murder at the hands of an armed home invader," Breyer added, "well, that's what you get for electing the kind of liberal Democrats who appoint and confirm scumbags like me to the freaking US supreme Court. Hahaha-haaa."

125 posted on 12/12/2010 4:17:48 PM PST by Lancey Howard
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To: scrabblehack

Yep your correct it was the dishonorable asshat Souter not the dishonorable asshat Breyer...


126 posted on 12/12/2010 4:18:05 PM PST by JohnD9207 (John McCain is a proud Ted Kennedy conservative!)
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To: PapaBear3625
"At the Founding, there were privately owned CANNON that would have cleared out a schoolyard much faster than any AK-47."

Yup, a few wealthy types privately owned what was the days equivalent of a fully armed Navy destroyer. You could own whatever weaponry you could afford, no questions asked.

127 posted on 12/12/2010 4:18:56 PM PST by Wonder Warthog
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To: driftdiver

he ought to go back to making ice cream


128 posted on 12/12/2010 4:19:00 PM PST by muir_redwoods (Obama. Chauncey Gardiner without the homburg.)
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To: driftdiver

What a dunce.


129 posted on 12/12/2010 4:20:33 PM PST by freekitty (Give me back my conservative vote; then find me a real conservative to vote for)
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To: driftdiver; DaveLoneRanger

WTF?
(ping of interest DLR).

If one understands society of the day, that is like saying they would have allowed restrictions on forks or axes. It was a tool of everyday life. It not only was an item to defend your life, liberty, and property, but it was a tool to sustain your family.

It is obvious that the Founders saw and new of attempts to limit arms by those who wanted to control liberty, which is why they explicitly forbid the government to infringe on ownership. The European they escaped from and rebelled against had one of the early forms of arms control where lords forbid the serfs to own arms (unless they deemed necessary) in order to hold on to their power. Seems we are moving back to that old European feudalistic culture under Breyer.


130 posted on 12/12/2010 4:20:38 PM PST by mnehring
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To: cbkaty
Q. What do you call a lawyer with an I.Q. of 50?

A. "Your Honor"

131 posted on 12/12/2010 4:21:00 PM PST by muir_redwoods (Obama. Chauncey Gardiner without the homburg.)
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To: Gadsden1st
Sarah can increase the number and pack the court when we elect her in 2012.

We would be better off reducing the court back to five as it was before Roosevelt raised it to nine and packed it. I'll pick the four to retire. You can trust me.

132 posted on 12/12/2010 4:23:28 PM PST by LoneRangerMassachusetts (The meek shall not inherit the Earth)
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To: driftdiver

What is this idiot doing on the supreme court? Does he not know the purpose of the second amendment? Does he not understand the consequences of an all-powerful government?

Oh, I think he understands perfectly. It’s just that he’s a leftie and lefties don’t like sharing power with the masses. He knows that the second amendment is the only thing left with which to defend the rest of the constitution and he hates that.


133 posted on 12/12/2010 4:23:43 PM PST by meyer (Hey Obama - It's the end of the world as you know it.... ..... and I feel fine!)
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To: driftdiver

What amazes me is that this cretin is considered ‘qualified’ to be a justice on the SCOTUS. Firearms were the rule, not the exception in the time our Founders lived. As common to see as horse shite in the road.


134 posted on 12/12/2010 4:23:56 PM PST by jla
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To: cbkaty

Amen to that. We sure do give them godlike status as well as godlike powers


135 posted on 12/12/2010 4:28:54 PM PST by winodog
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To: DemonDeac
You're dead wrong about Thomas.

I've met the man, he's sharp and he's knowledgeable. Just because he doesn't run his mouth at oral argument doesn't mean he's "an idiot".

Look online for the recording of a talk and question-and-answer session he had with a group of high school students. He's very articulate and has some interesting things to say - one of the first questions is why he doesn't ask many questions at OA. He gives a thoughtful answer which may interest you -- I say may because it sounds like your mind is already made up.

136 posted on 12/12/2010 4:29:40 PM PST by AnAmericanMother (Ministrix of ye Chasse, TTGC Ladies' Auxiliary (recess appointment))
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To: SampleMan

You might want to verify those quotes. The George Washington one I know is bogus - not sure about some of the others. The Franklin one sounds much too modern.


137 posted on 12/12/2010 4:31:24 PM PST by AnAmericanMother (Ministrix of ye Chasse, TTGC Ladies' Auxiliary (recess appointment))
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To: mojitojoe
You're right, but I hope when Claire Wolfe's alarm clock does finally ring, it's loud enough to wake up all the sleeping patriots. It's time to stand up for this nation, not desert it. Patriots, think long and hard about your choices.

Scouts Out! Cavalry Ho!

138 posted on 12/12/2010 4:32:18 PM PST by wku man (Still holding my breath, but exhaling a bit after Nov. 2...)
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To: driftdiver

Dumb as a box of rocks.


139 posted on 12/12/2010 4:32:45 PM PST by Tax-chick (He will be Peace.)
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To: AnAmericanMother

You met Clarence Thomas? Well, I met Thomas Sowell, so there!

In other news, Bill got an improbably high PSAT score. We’re all still in shock. Probably not a National Merit Scholarship, but the Army ROTC recruiter is going to be climbing in throught dryer vent.


140 posted on 12/12/2010 4:36:33 PM PST by Tax-chick (He will be Peace.)
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To: driftdiver

The Federalist Papers
http://www.foundingfathers.info/federalistpapers/


141 posted on 12/12/2010 4:38:28 PM PST by 2ndDivisionVet ("You don't have a soul. You are a Soul. You have a body." CS Lewis)
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To: DemonDeac

A prolifically idiotic and moronic statement.


142 posted on 12/12/2010 4:38:52 PM PST by DarthVader (That which supports Barack Hussein Obama must be sterilized and there are NO exceptions!)
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To: Tax-chick
Congrats to Bill! When you've finished brushing all the dryer lint off the recruiter, see if you can get a written commitment for a branch designation.

My husband was able to choose his branch back in '73 at GA Tech (he chose Chemical Corps, he's a chemist). That may have been a special deal with Tech, don't know for sure.

143 posted on 12/12/2010 4:41:12 PM PST by AnAmericanMother (Ministrix of ye Chasse, TTGC Ladies' Auxiliary (recess appointment))
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To: Tax-chick
To be absolutely accurate, I guess you can say I met him - if by meeting him you mean smiling and nodding in a crowd after a speech!

But I've heard him speak, and he's good. And I'm not just saying that because he's from right down the road from my parents' house!

144 posted on 12/12/2010 4:42:45 PM PST by AnAmericanMother (Ministrix of ye Chasse, TTGC Ladies' Auxiliary (recess appointment))
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To: driftdiver
Memo to "Justice" Breyer:
If the representatives of the people betray their constituents, there is then no resource left but in the exertion of that original right of self-defense which is paramount to all positive forms of government, and which against the usurpations of the national rulers, may be exerted with infinitely better prospect of success than against those of the rulers of an individual state. In a single state, if the persons intrusted with supreme power become usurpers, the different parcels, subdivisions, or districts of which it consists, having no distinct government in each, can take no regular measures for defense. The citizens must rush tumultuously to arms, without concert, without system, without resource; except in their courage and despair. The usurpers, clothed with the forms of legal authority, can too often crush the opposition in embryo. The smaller the extent of the territory, the more difficult will it be for the people to form a regular or systematic plan of opposition, and the more easy will it be to defeat their early efforts. Intelligence can be more speedily obtained of their preparations and movements, and the military force in the possession of the usurpers can be more rapidly directed against the part where the opposition has begun. In this situation there must be a peculiar coincidence of circumstances to insure success to the popular resistance.

With love from Alexander Hamilton [Federalist #28]


145 posted on 12/12/2010 4:44:45 PM PST by ml/nj
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To: Tax-chick

Sounds like good news!


146 posted on 12/12/2010 4:46:05 PM PST by txhurl
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To: DemonDeac
Thomas is an idiot and comes off as one whenever he opens his mouth.

Wow. What an ignorant statement. I guess you haven't read My Grandfather's Son; or talked to anyone who has worked with him. Maybe you could share two or three idiotic statements you've heard even attributed to the man?

ML/NJ

147 posted on 12/12/2010 4:51:45 PM PST by ml/nj
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To: ml/nj

bttt!


148 posted on 12/12/2010 4:56:24 PM PST by txhurl
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To: txhurl

It is good news. With a little more work on his math, he can have a stratospheric SAT score and get substantial financial aid from a respectable state college, if he decides against ROTC. My husband and I are pushing it, because it’s not only a paid college education but a job afterward.


149 posted on 12/12/2010 4:59:48 PM PST by Tax-chick (He will be Peace.)
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To: AnAmericanMother

Bill would like artillery, I think. The Army recruiter is the man who caught him frisking on the church roof ;-).


150 posted on 12/12/2010 5:00:58 PM PST by Tax-chick (He will be Peace.)
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