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Holbrooke no hero to general
The Ottawa Sun ^ | December 17, 2010 | Michael Harris

Posted on 12/17/2010 10:02:34 PM PST by TheMole

This week, the Globe and Mail asked General Lewis McKenzie (Retired) to write the obituary of American diplomat Richard Holbrooke.

It was a good idea. The two men had crossed paths more than once on the global stage of the Great Game.

McKenzie declined. Holbrooke had just died and the general knew that what he had to say would hardly produce the standard panegyric.

When I caught up with McKenzie, he was shoveling snow after a spell away from home. I asked for an interview and to my surprise, he agreed.

“I’m just going to tell you what I thought of him through my own prism. All of my experiences with Holbrooke were all bad.” The men were both involved in Vietnam. Holbrooke was Henry Kissinger’s primary assistant at the time of the Paris Peace Accords. McKenzie was part of the International Commission of Control and Supervision. “It wasn’t an accord at all, it was just a way of getting the U.S. out of the war. They just wanted diplomatic cover to get the troops out. And of course you know what happened next.”

On Friday March 13, 1992, McKenzie arrived in Sarajevo as part of a United Nations Protection Force. Holbrooke was part of the American diplomatic effort. The Portuguese ambassador had already brokered an accord between the combatants which would have seen the “canonization” of Bosnia. But U.S. Ambassador Warren Zimmerman advised Bosnian Muslim leader Alija Izetbegovic to turn the plan down. Three years later, virtually the same plan was adopted with thousands killed in the interim.

“The war was for nothing. The Serbs had already committed to Dayton after the Croatian offensive in southwest Bosnia. Clearly the bombing was unwarranted. And that is the real history not the myth. I don’t think Holbrooke had a positive influence on the Balkans.” And then, in 1999, there was Kosovo, where Holbrooke played a role.

“We had NATO bombing a sovereign country on behalf of the Kosovo Liberation Army, (KLA) a listed terrorist group. Now we have the president of Kosovo mixed up in an organ-harvesting ring. Unfortunately, Canada is one of the 72 countries at the UN that recognized Kosovo.” Diplomat Richard Holbrooke and soldier Lewis McKenzie met face-to-face on U.S. network television in the wake of 9/11. With millions of furious Americans watching, Holbrooke leveled an accusation that has “peed off” the general ever since.

“We were on Ted Koppel’s Nightline. Holbrooke said ‘General McKenzie, it is my understanding that all the terrorists who flew planes into the Twin Towers came on a ferry from Yarmouth, Nova Scotia to Bar Harbor Maine.’ ” The general’s cousin, owner of McKenzie Security, was responsible for that ferry run and the soldier knew that the diplomat was out to lunch.

“I was absolutely livid. That was the start of the myth of how the 9/11 terrorists came through Canada and executed their attack.”

Holbrooke re-emerged when the Democrats swept to power in 2008, but General McKenzie wasn’t cheering.

“When I heard that Obama had appointed him envoy to Af-Pak, I couldn’t think of a worse personality to put in that job. Rest his soul, and yes, I admired his intellect, but the man was a bully.”

No one, not even in death, bullies the general.

mharris@cfra.com


TOPICS: Canada; Foreign Affairs; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: 1992; 1999; 20010911; 911; alijaizetbegovic; balkans; barharbor; bordercrossing; bosnia; bully; cfra; daytonaccords; ferry; henrykissinger; hobrooke; holbrooke; iccs; izetbegovic; kissinger; kla; kosovo; lewismckenzie; mackenzie; maine; mckenzie; mckenziesecurity; michaelharris; novascotia; parispeaceaccords; ppa; richardholbrooke; sarajevo; vietnam; warrenzimmerman; yarmouth; yugoslavia; zimmerman
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1 posted on 12/17/2010 10:02:39 PM PST by TheMole
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To: TheMole

Thank you for the perspective. The stories painting Holbrooke as some kind of diplomatic martyr were starting to grate on me. Good qualities he probably had-but the man was no peacemaker.


2 posted on 12/17/2010 10:10:00 PM PST by tanuki (O-voters: wanted Uberman, got Underdog....)
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To: TheMole

Finally a military figure (and a Canadian one at that) who has the guts to tell the truth about Holbrooke.

This should be expanded into a major news story/article and distributed around the world.

Wow! I thought that after 40 years in the journalism field re Vietnam, etc., I had heard everything to be said about Holbrooke but I’m glad I was wrong.

What else does the General know that we should know about Bosnia, Kosovo, etc.?


3 posted on 12/17/2010 10:10:20 PM PST by MadMax, the Grinning Reaper
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To: TheMole
Holbrooke was a complete globalist, and trained by Kissenger--yes, very confident of his own towering intellect which would contribute to becoming a bully. I'm sure that in his own mind, he knew all the answers.

vaudine

4 posted on 12/17/2010 10:14:05 PM PST by vaudine
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To: TheMole

Finally!


5 posted on 12/17/2010 10:24:26 PM PST by Montanabound
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To: TheMole
“We had NATO bombing a sovereign country on behalf of the Kosovo Liberation Army, (KLA) a listed terrorist group. Now we have the president of Kosovo mixed up in an organ-harvesting ring. Unfortunately, Canada is one of the 72 countries at the UN that recognized Kosovo.”

I'm glad to hear a general put it like that. Using NATO to invade a sovereign country to settle an internal dispute set a precedent and a very ugly and dangerous one. It is not ridiculous to think that one day NATO will send in troops to deal with the problem on our border with Mexico.

6 posted on 12/17/2010 10:28:33 PM PST by TigersEye (Who crashed the markets on 9/28/08 and why?)
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To: TheMole

Paging Michael Barone, Mr. Barone please pick up!

Holbrooke Thought Highly of Himself, for Good Reason
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2643430/posts


7 posted on 12/17/2010 10:31:21 PM PST by mwilli20 (BO. Making communists proud all over the world.)
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To: TheMole

That people die because of stupid mistakes and ego trips made by petty Little People running their own agendas, makes me sick to my stomach.


8 posted on 12/17/2010 10:35:26 PM PST by Humidston (For the first time in my adult life I FEAR my government.)
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To: MadMax, the Grinning Reaper

“I was absolutely livid. That was the start of the myth of how the 9/11 terrorists came through Canada and executed their attack.”

Before the 9/11 attacks, the most interesting one was how Al Hassam got caught because an actual US border guard used simple profiling to nab him in his New Year’s attempt to blow up Times Square. He was going thru the Canada US border in BC.

On a certain stretch of Avenue in Vancouver close to where I grew up, ONE BLOCK of motels separates where Al Hassam planned the bomb run and where the Green River killer, Wa state’s most hideous murderer used to “vacation” while in Vancouver.


9 posted on 12/17/2010 10:37:38 PM PST by max americana
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To: TheMole

I had the pleasure of hearing Gen. McKenzie speak a number of years ago. Two stories he told stuck with me.

1. When in the Balkans, his orders where to not have his troops return hostile fire unless he got permission from some NATO or UN beaurocrat in NYC. He urgently needed this permission, had to track the guy down at some cocktail party, whereupon the guy didn’t even know who he was.

2. The second story involved the Queen of England and totally changed my perception of her. Apparently the Queen was fully up to speed in reading his top secret NATO reports. She asked for a private meeting the next time he was in London. They met wherein she quizzed him on what was going on in the Balkans. It surprised me she was so interested/involved in the goings on in the world.

All in all, I thought he was a candid common sense guy.


10 posted on 12/17/2010 10:46:33 PM PST by spyone (ridiculum)
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To: TheMole

Holbrooke was always Hillary’s tool - right up to the day he died in a meeting with her.

Thousands and thousands and thousands of utterly unnecessary dead as a result of the paranoid, megalomaniacal schemes of these psychopathic screwups.

When will people learn?


11 posted on 12/17/2010 10:48:47 PM PST by Talisker (When you find a turtle on top of a fence post, you can be damn sure it didn't get there on its own.)
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To: max americana

I wasn’t aware the Green River killer vacationed in Vancouver. What Avenue are you referring to?


12 posted on 12/17/2010 10:50:00 PM PST by spyone (ridiculum)
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To: spyone

Kingsway Ave.

Let me re-phrase that: it was the same motel where the Green River Killer and Al Hassam hatched the NY terrorist dry run before 9/11. I remember it as the 2400 Motel and it’s still standing.


13 posted on 12/17/2010 11:06:10 PM PST by max americana
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To: max americana

2400 Court Motel. I think it was recently torn down. I did not know those facts. Thanks.


14 posted on 12/17/2010 11:16:19 PM PST by spyone (ridiculum)
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To: tanuki

an ignorant malicious arrogant bully

RIP Mr. Holbrooke, but we don’t need to pretend you are some diplomatic giant


15 posted on 12/17/2010 11:35:42 PM PST by Enchante (12/10/10: Obama just abdicated his Presidency to Bill Clinton at the Tax Policy Press Conference!)
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To: Talisker
"Holbrooke was always Hillary’s tool - right up to the day he died in a meeting with her."

Right here at FR we watched Bosnia unfold. We always said The Toon held back the bombers but it was Hillary who got to him.

yitbos

16 posted on 12/17/2010 11:41:35 PM PST by bruinbirdman ("Those who control language control minds." -- Ayn Rand)
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To: Talisker

When voters start noticing that these Ivy League tools aren’t half as smart as the press (more Ivy League tools) think they are.

The single best criterion I have developed for determining whether someone is a fool/tool/idiot in government or upper management in the private sector is the presence of Ivy League affiliation on their CV.

Holbrooke went to both Brown and Princeton. He therefore was bound to be almost as fecklessly idiotic as someone who attended Yale & Harvard... or Columbia and Harvard.

WFB once posited that he’d rather be governed by the first 400 names in the Boston phone directory than the faculty of
Harvard.

Today, I’d say that the single best way out of our troubles would be to exile anyone in government or upper management with an Ivy League pedigree to an island with no way off (let them figure out how to build a canoe or something) and simply draft replacements from the voting rolls. Just walk up to people’s front door and say “Hi, are you John Q. Brainsample? You’ve voted in the last six elections, yes? Get your crap, you’re coming with us. No, you don’t have a choice. You’re going to be in Congress for the next two years....”


17 posted on 12/17/2010 11:54:03 PM PST by NVDave
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To: TheMole

Excellent assessment, by one of America’s finest.


18 posted on 12/18/2010 12:07:58 AM PST by no-to-illegals (Please God, Bless and Protect Our Men and Women in Uniform with Victory. Amen.)
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To: TheMole

Yes, I knew that...thank you so much for posting it.


19 posted on 12/18/2010 12:13:50 AM PST by bronxville
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To: MadMax, the Grinning Reaper
What else does the General know that we should know about Bosnia, Kosovo, etc.?

He's been interviewed extensively and wrote a book about his experiences in the former Yugoslavia.

I used to wonder about some of his views but with the passage of time pretty much everything he ever said now looks to be fairly accurate. I linked to his Wikipedia entry just so Freepers would be clear on who he is and what he's done, but that entry appears to have been written by a left-liberal Canadian angry that MacKenzie was a candidate for the Conservative Party.

20 posted on 12/18/2010 1:01:17 AM PST by TheMole
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To: spyone
The 2400 Motel is still there. I drove past it last week. I believe that it is actually owned by the City of Vancouver; they contract out its operation. There have been plans to sell all or part of the land and develop it as condos, but nothing has happened and real estate is cooling down ... or at least City Hall's urge to play real estate developer has cooled down after the Olympic Village fiasco.
21 posted on 12/18/2010 1:11:53 AM PST by TheMole
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To: Poundstone

(( ping ))


22 posted on 12/18/2010 1:19:06 AM PST by Lancey Howard
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To: TheMole

a Freeper nailed it when he commenetd that Holbrooke spent his diplomatic career making sure the US would not win a war


23 posted on 12/18/2010 3:11:31 AM PST by silverleaf (All that is necessary for evil to succeed, is that good men do nothing)
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To: NVDave
Dave, not a bad idea!
No volunteers. Volunteerism may taint their motives. Like some that “volunteer” to be LEO with prevalent interest just to be the authority over us.
24 posted on 12/18/2010 3:38:16 AM PST by dusttoyou ("Progressives" are wee-weeing all over themselves, Foc nobama)
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To: no-to-illegals

“one of America’s finest.”: to whom are you referring?


25 posted on 12/18/2010 5:00:12 AM PST by Former Proud Canadian (How do I change my screen name now that we have the most conservative government in the world?)
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To: NVDave
No, you don’t have a choice. You’re going to be in Congress for the next two years....”

The early Athenian Democracy chose their representatives by lottery - very similar to your proposal.

26 posted on 12/18/2010 5:07:12 AM PST by Timocrat
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To: tanuki

Holbrooke was no hero..his tentacles raced everywhere==


27 posted on 12/18/2010 5:30:08 AM PST by richardtavor (One of the rare establishment Republicans backed by the "Tea Party" movement that wants limited gove)
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To: NVDave

I agree!


28 posted on 12/18/2010 5:34:41 AM PST by panthermom
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To: TheMole

Good for General McKenzie to go on the record. I have always respected his history, experience and knowledge. I did not know that it was Holbrooke who started the rumor about the 911 terrorists entering through Canada, but I have always considered him to be slime.

There is a reason that he was not part of the GWB ‘diplomatic’ corps.


29 posted on 12/18/2010 5:50:18 AM PST by maica
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To: spyone
The Queen has ALWAYS been on top of everything.....quite a gal!

Holbrooke was the most ARROGANT B@STARD in the Govt....and that's saying something.

30 posted on 12/18/2010 5:50:47 AM PST by Ann Archy (Abortion......the Human Sacrifice to the god of Convenience.)
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To: bruinbirdman

We KILLED INNOCENT people to help the KLA, a TERRORIST GROUP!!<P.That Bosnia fiasco was SO confusing and it was the first time I thought our country was doing really bad things.


31 posted on 12/18/2010 5:53:09 AM PST by Ann Archy (Abortion......the Human Sacrifice to the god of Convenience.)
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To: TheMole

The stain and damage of these 60’s liberals will continue to add to our decline and demise.

May Holbooke burn in hell.


32 posted on 12/18/2010 6:13:25 AM PST by Lessthantolerant (The State is diametrically opposed to our search for a better living.)
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To: AdmSmith; Arthur Wildfire! March; Berosus; bigheadfred; ColdOne; Convert from ECUSA; Delacon; ...

Thanks TheMole.


33 posted on 12/18/2010 7:28:39 AM PST by SunkenCiv (The 2nd Amendment follows right behind the 1st because some people are hard of hearing.)
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To: vaudine
"Holbrooke was a complete globalist, and trained by Kissenger--"

Kissenger was the ultimate pragmatist.

34 posted on 12/18/2010 7:38:42 AM PST by verity
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To: Talisker
It was Hillary that directed when the bombing in Kosovo would start.

IIRC it was March 24, 1999 when the bombing started. That date was picked for 2 reasons:

1. Rush Limbaugh was on vacation that week

2. March 20, 1999 is the day Hillary's planned “Scorched Earth Policy” was kicked off. That's a plan straight out of the Weather Underground playbook for the violent overthrow of the govt. of the USA. A few weeks later is when Eric Holder arraigned for the release of the FLAN terrorist.

The plan calls for orchestrating civil unrest and race riots, then carrying out a terrorist attack.

Kind of odd isn't it?

Clinton climbs into bed with al Quadas ally the KLA, and al Quiada repays him by attempting to carry out a terrorist attack?

35 posted on 12/18/2010 7:54:20 AM PST by IMR 4350
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To: verity
"Kissenger was the ultimate pragmatist"--IMHO Kissenger was the ultimate Kraut--incredibly overconfident of his own consensus made up of me, myself, and I. He, too, is an internationalist and trained Holbrooke---DUH! A no brainer! Holbrooke HAD to be overconfident, a bullying globalist, and an internationalist meddler, as proven by the General's information about Holbrooke's role in Kosovo, Paris Accord, etc.

I am sorry for Holbrooke's untimely death and his family's loss, but he is no great loss to US sovereignty, which he considered effectively over. Our good is to be a member of a global society, ruled by an International entity made up mostly of our enemy states, don't you know?

vaudine

36 posted on 12/18/2010 8:00:15 AM PST by vaudine
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To: TheMole

Finally.


37 posted on 12/18/2010 8:15:48 AM PST by jazminerose (o)
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To: Former Proud Canadian

I sent an email to you. If you desire I will humbly await your condemnation of my words.


38 posted on 12/18/2010 8:42:04 AM PST by no-to-illegals (Please God, Bless and Protect Our Men and Women in Uniform with Victory. Amen.)
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To: IMR 4350

I always thought it was because March 24 was my wedding anniversary ;)


39 posted on 12/18/2010 10:46:12 AM PST by jttpwalsh
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To: Ravnagora; Bokababe

Balkans ping!


40 posted on 12/18/2010 11:01:27 AM PST by Dragonfly
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To: TheMole

He’s in the league of Strobe Talbott.. now answerable to his maker


41 posted on 12/18/2010 11:26:38 AM PST by NormsRevenge (Semper Fi ... Godspeed .. Monthly Donor Onboard .. Obama: Epic Fail or Bust!!!)
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To: joan; Smartass; zagor-te-nej; Lion in Winter; Honorary Serb; jb6; Incorrigible; DTA; vooch; ...

42 posted on 12/18/2010 11:51:31 AM PST by Bokababe (Save Christian Kosovo! http://www.savekosovo.org)
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To: MadMax, the Grinning Reaper
What else does the General know that we should know about Bosnia, Kosovo, etc.?

2008 (Right after Kosovo Declared Independence):

General Lewis Mackenzie: We Bombed The Wrong Side - Kosovo's Independence Immoral

43 posted on 12/18/2010 12:08:49 PM PST by Bokababe (Save Christian Kosovo! http://www.savekosovo.org)
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To: jttpwalsh
That's entirely possible.
44 posted on 12/18/2010 1:01:10 PM PST by IMR 4350
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To: TheMole

Let Assholebrooke rot, he did enough damage while he was alive. Piss be unto him.


45 posted on 12/18/2010 1:28:23 PM PST by montyspython
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To: Bokababe

Wonderful!

Now, when do we start bombing the He!! out of the KLA?


46 posted on 12/18/2010 2:46:48 PM PST by bayouranger (The 1st victim of islam is the person who practices the lie.)
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To: bayouranger
Wonderful! Now, when do we start bombing the He!! out of the KLA?

Well if we use their roadmap for stealing Kosovo that the KLA did, then:

1. As soon as we develop a lucrative sex/drug/organ trading Mafia that can fund the project,

2. As soon as we can hire a PR firm with connections to the highest levels of government and the media,

3. And as soon as we can find the equivalent of an anti-American former Congressman like Joseph Dio Guardi who'll stuff the campaign coffers on both sides of the aisle and will show globalist corporate warlords how it will be in their best interest to take back Kosovo from the Albanian Mafia.

If we do it the way they did it, this may take a little while.

Or, we offer every Albanian civilian in Kosovo $50K to move to Albania and leave Kosovo forever.

The latter would be cheaper and cleaner in the long run, because we've probably spent that much in aid to them already with no signs that there will ever be a time that they will be self-supporting. The results of this strategy would be that the only Albanians left in Kosovo would be the KLA and their supporters, making them easy targets that the Serb army will be happy to take care of for free.

I think that this could be considered a US cost-cutting and clean-up project that most everyone could get behind.

47 posted on 12/18/2010 4:41:09 PM PST by Bokababe (Save Christian Kosovo! http://www.savekosovo.org)
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To: no-to-illegals

I salute you too, sir.


48 posted on 12/18/2010 5:36:33 PM PST by Former Proud Canadian (How do I change my screen name now that we have the most conservative government in the world?)
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To: Bokababe

Reduce the deficit, kill the KLA


49 posted on 12/18/2010 6:29:12 PM PST by montyspython
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To: montyspython; All

Philip J. Crowley
Assistant Secretary
Daily Press Briefing
Washington, DC
December 17, 2010

....QUESTION: Council of Europe accusations against – Council of Europe report today accused also prime minister for serious crimes, basically. In the report, the FBI is mentioned as one of the sources of the inquiry. So is there anything new about that? We heard something —

MR. CROWLEY: We addressed that a couple of days ago.

QUESTION: Yes.

MR. CROWLEY: We fully support that – any investigation by a legitimate authority into these charges.

QUESTION: Do you have any contacts with Kosovo government on the issue?

MR. CROWLEY: I’ll take that question, see if we’ve had – I’m not aware of any – I’ll tell you what, I’m not aware of any contacts we’ve had since that report has come out. If that is – if our – but I’ll take that question and see.

QUESTION: P.J., just on that subject, you said – when you did address it the other day – I think it was Wednesday – you said pretty much the same thing, that you fully support an investigation. But you also noted, pointed out that this has come up before and that the ICTY has declined to prosecute or declined to go any further. Is that – I took that to suggest that you didn’t think that there was anything new here or that you thought that there was any – there was evidence that —

MR. CROWLEY: Well, we did have a statement of fact that some of these issues had been investigated before, and – but to the extent that this report sheds new light on these issues, they should be followed through.

QUESTION: And do you have any concerns about what this might do to the U.S.-Kosovo relations, in particular —

MR. CROWLEY: I don’t think it’s going to change fundamentally U.S.-Kosovo relations.

QUESTION: Well, the U.S. –

MR. CROWLEY: I mean, they’re based on our mutual interest, not on specific personalities.

QUESTION: Well, right. But I mean, if – do you see any problem in dealing specifically with Mr. Thaci?

MR. CROWLEY: Well, at this point, since any individual anywhere in the world is innocent until proven otherwise, he is the current prime minister, and we will continue to work with that government.

QUESTION: Well, yeah, but you won’t deal with President Bashir; he’s not been convicted of anything. You don’t deal with Mugabe, pretty much, and he’s not been convicted of anything.

MR. CROWLEY: He – well, he – yeah.

QUESTION: You’re calling for Laurent Gbagbo to leave Ivory Coast.

MR. CROWLEY: For very different reasons, Matt.

QUESTION: Well, all of them have been accused of – okay – being accused of crimes. None of them have been convicted of anything. And yet – so why is Hashim Thaci given this luxury?

MR. CROWLEY: We’re not giving anybody a pass. As we’ve said, if there’s new information that is revealed in this report, it should be fully investigated.

QUESTION: Giving the pass on Hashim —

MR. CROWLEY: In fairness, we don’t want to neglect the back of the room.

QUESTION: Thank you. Do you have any comments on today’s Japanese prime minister visit to Okinawa?

MR. CROWLEY: I do not......

http://www.state.gov/r/pa/prs/dpb/2010/12/153124.htm

Sorry folks, this is such BS that it makes you want to beat your head against the wall. The very people that the US State Dept supported — and Hillary in specific supported — are accused of killing people in order to sell their organs. But no big deal, let’s not talk about it, it’s business as usual at the State Department.


50 posted on 12/18/2010 7:01:43 PM PST by Bokababe (Save Christian Kosovo! http://www.savekosovo.org)
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