Skip to comments.Twenty Questions About Pornography. This Is A Test.
Posted on 12/18/2010 8:01:19 AM PST by IbJensen
Pornography has invaded the worlds imagination. It is everywhere: On the Internet, in films, in movies, in rap music videos. Five-year-old girls dress and are taught to behave like pornography stars in order to win beauty contests. Ten- to twelve-year-old girls both dress and behave like the pornographic images that surround themand they provide sexual services to young boys.
Operahigh culturehas also been increasingly sexed up. I have seen productions of Carmen and Lulu in which the lead diva was half-naked and in which she, too, sang the role as if she was a contemporary pornography star and prostitute.
No, I do not like any of this.
Yes, I take it all very seriouslyas many Second Wave feminists and our Christian and conservative allies once did.
No, I do not think that hiding women beneath burqas is, therefore, any kind of solution. In fact, both pornography and prostitution are booming businesses in most Muslim countries.
Before we go any further, lets play twenty questions. I really want your answers.
1. Is pornography work or is it a violent crime?
2. Is pornography free speech in action or is it a violent, often murderous crime?
3. Is pornography really a victimless crime?
4. Are pimps, johns, traffickers, and landlords being victimized? If so, why are they not complaining?
5. Are the people, mainly men, who buy and watch pornography being victimized? If so, why are they not complaining? Is anyone forcing them to consume pornography?
6. Are the seductive, taunting, smiling, naked girls and women who are being paid good moneyvictims? If so, why dont they complain, leave, find some other job?
7. Isnt working in pornography a job just like any other joblike any other acting job?
8. Arent pornography actors there of their own free willfor the easy money, the attention, the stardom?
9. Isnt our right to see and read whatever interests us essential to our fundamental liberty?
10. Doesnt the First Amendment guarantee us this right? If we criminalize one kind of free speech, where will it end? Who will decide what information or images we are allowed to see? Wont state or religious censorship chill our rights, even our very thoughts?
11. On behalf of free speech, and privacy rights, didnt Second Wave feminists avidly collaborate with pornographers to ensure that pornography remained a civil right?
12. Didnt Second Wave feminists launch the battle against violence against women, which included sexual harassment, rape, incest, domestic batteringas well as the most serious battle against pornography and prostitution? Werent they vilified for collaborating with Christians and conservatives on the issue of pornography and prostitution?
13. How many women from wealthy and prominent families, or with advanced educations, choose to work in pornography or as prostitutes?
14. Did you know that, by definition, pornography is that which has to do with prostitutes. Porne in Greek is a prostitute. The so-called actresses in pornography are treated as if they areand usually soon arealso working as prostitutes.
15. How different is being a prostitute from being a stripper, massage therapist, or a nurse?
16. How many prostituted girls and women are actually free to leave, walk out, give it all up?
17. Where might they go? Where might they call home? Who will help them get off drugs and alcohol, restore their ravaged health, support them as they deal with the sexually transmitted diseases, including AIDS, with which johns have infected them?
18. Do you have any idea of what the average age of a pornography actress/prostitute is?
19. How long a shelf-life does a working girl (prostitute, pornography actress) actually have?
20. Why does pornography turn people on?
I lived through the great feminist Sex Wars. I was both a participant and an eye-witness, as well as a confidante to feminists who were on both sides of this War. But before I share memories and analysis, I really want to hear from you. Your answers will help me understand how to share a vast body of knowledge and history with you in the most productive way. Heres a hint to help you think through these questions.
Pornography is a multi-billion dollar industry, right up there with guns and drugs. It is enormously profitable but not to the workers, most of whom are girls and women who have been sold by their parents, captured in war, kidnapped off the street, forced by their husbands, or who have been driven by poverty, racism, incest, and the most violent sexism into the arms of pimps, traffickers, landlords, advertisers, law enforcement officers, and johns.
Phyllis Chesler, Ph.D is an Emerita Professor of Psychology and Women's Studies at City University of New York. She is an author, psychotherapist and an expert courtroom witness. She has lectured and organized political, legal, religious and human rights campaigns in the United States and in Canada, Europe, the Middle East and the Far East. A popular guest on campuses and in national and international print, television, radio and online media, she has been an expert commentator on the major events of our time. She has lived in Kabul, Afghanistan, and in Jerusalem and Tel Aviv. She currently resides in Manhattan.
The success of your pro-porn movement, whether text or pictures, was delivered by the left and the leftwing courts, and is a part of the total package of the anti-American agenda.
Think about it some more. Lets take our most basic law: that against murder. Before the law came the morality - in our case the Ten Commandments and the 1000 years of Christian European culture that developed around that. As a result the morality was turned into law.
Other cultures have had very different morality, for instance Vikings saw nothing wrong with killing people from other races and taking their women, gold, and possessions. Headhunters in Borneo kill for religious purposes.
So, I will stick by my claim that all laws are based on morality. What would your example of a morally neutral law be?
“This is my rifle, this is my gun....”
Let me show another example: Raycpa, in post #84, pointed out that he has a "law" that his sons must take out the garbage. The underlying moral principle to this is that garbage, if left unchecked, can lead to rodent infestations and disease, and therefore, for the health and welfare of the family, must be removed. How the garbage goes out is a morally neutral decision, but that it must go out is not.
That is what I mean about all laws having a moral component.
War is Peace
Thats a nice lookin machine
>>>It has been around since mankind has.<<<
Got to agree with this one. What was the first thing my son’s right hand went to after taking off his diaper?
And you’re right about the use of visual imagery of naked women and depictions of sex to stimulate men. I ust saw this about 45 minutes ago on the Fox news channel as they were selling Pajamagrams and the associated lingerie what went along with the order.
I think anyone would be hard pressed to prove that women’s participation in making themselves look sexually attractive is not biological.
Having said that...
It’s also true that civilization and human progress are accompanied by the control and harnessing of our instincts toward bettering ourselves and our society. Yeah, my son’s hand wandered, but he’s not doing it on the streets, either. Yes, women dress sexy and show themselves off to selected men, but they’re not waiting for the men to line up like the chimps at Gombe, either. Porn is normal - as is keeping it private, behind closed doors, and beneath cultural norms which are more dignified, to use a Victorian term.
So the author is pointed in the right direction, but her perspective is colored by her ideology. IMHO
Well lets see when porn (no scare quotes needed) was illegal throughout America were we more, or less, Maxist? Hmmm? The Citizens United case was about political speech, which is clearly what the founders were protecting with the first ammendment. It's amazing how limits on political speech are now accepted as normal and necessary while limits on porn is considered intollerable. People who think this way aren't really conservatives. They have accepted 90% of the liberal thought process and will find that they will be forced to surrender on the other 10% over time. Using your arguments you must support Don't Ask, Don't Tell's repeal. After all who are we to restrict the freedom of homosexuals to be who they are and openly espress their desires. Free Speech demands it. If I have to choose between the Constitution and morality it will be a very, very easy choice. No matter how brilliant the Constitution is merely a man-created document. It has been used and abused by generations, used to permit slavery, and then to abolish it. Used to forbid abortion, and then to protect it. Used to defeat racism, and then to promote it. It is not a reliable guide, it is merely a tool of imperfect humans valuable when used by skilled craftsmen with honorable intentions, destructive when used by amoral retards intent on glorifying their perversions and sickness.
You said my premise was wrong, so why would I need to look at your post to find my premise?
when was porn illegal? We’ve had pinup girls since the World War.
Im pretty sure I did not misstate my own premise.
For my part, I have no problem in morally condemning pornography, though there are degrees of degradation.
But as a Christian I also believe that people have the right to sin and freedom is defended only at a cost.
Sharia law is the enforcement of moral behaviour - our law is about preserving freedom and limiting the excesses of damaging behaviour. It sounds good but look where it leads.
Nor is it wise to ban that which cannot be enforced in a pluralist society.
Me? I like some porn, that is why I steer clear of it. I have to pluck my eye out as it offends me. Gets bloody but that's the cost of following Jesus.
This is different from the *preconditions* which is a description of the situation under consideration.
OK, so pro repleal of laws against incest among consenting adults then, as is currently being debated in Switzerland?
I think we're getting to see the fault lines in the term "conservative" here quite nicely. You are really a libertarian / libertine, not a conservative. Would you agree?
Nope, just mistaken
Natural law or the law of nature has been described as a law whose content is set by nature and that therefore has validity everywhere.
The handy-man at the 400 unit apartmnet building I lived in in the 1980s was an interesting old fellow. He's played drums in big bands in the Buddy Rich era, but didn't quite have the chops to make it big time. He drifted down to Florida in the 1950s and was making porno. He was arrested, tried and convicted and went to prison for a number of years. To this day (if he's still alive he is a felon whose crime was pornography).
It wasn't that long ago this was the norm in almost all parts of the USA. Larry Flynt, famously, was tried for pornography. Ed Meese, Reagan's attorney general attempted to prosecute some of the more disgusting pornographers.
I guess a lot of libertarian pseudo-conservatives think that this part of Reagan's legacy was wrong. I suppose of lot of them are supporting DADT repeal too.
“How consenting adults choose to exercise that freedom should be their choice, and they should live with the consequences.”
Boy, folks who think all Conservatives think alike should stop by and browse one of these threads sometime. Or, one of the evolution threads.
Pro-porn is the lefty position, and it is one of the great victories of the radical left since they started winning in the 1960s.
originally 1 mile in every 5 was to be straight, so that is could potentially be used as a runway.Urban legend.
Please explain the moral basis behind Roe v Wade.
Agree with you there...conservatives aren’t prudes...they just hate the over the top sexualized everything all the time.
Yeah... us guys.
Perhaps you haven't noticed the recent slippery slope we've all been sliding down when you cede just an inch of authority to the Govt in the name of "Homeland Security." We're also sliding down another in the name of "health care."
Next up is the slippery slope of "Internet Security" to prevent a future Julian Assange, or so they tell us.
How slippery do you think a slope will get if we cede an inch or two to the clowns in DC on legislating morality... who's morality... Pat Robertson's, Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf, Fred Phelps, or maybe Jeremiah Wright's under this Administration?
That's why we have a Constitution. FMCDH.
Who is arguing with that?
the porn industry hurts a lot of people, including women and children...that’s where the complaint is..no one is arguing about banning Playboy.
the Stoics asserted the existence of a rational and purposeful order to the universe (a divine or eternal law), and the means by which a rational being lived in accordance with this order was the natural law, which spelled out action that accorded with virtue.
Christians believe that "rational and purposeful order to the universe" is created and controlled by God. They believe, based on the revelations of the prophets going back to Abraham, that there are clear moral precepts that are required as part of this rational order.
Vikings believed the the there was a purposeful order to the universe, controlled by a pantheon of Gods. These Gods had their moral precepts, but they were quite different from the Christian ones.
If you try to deduce laws from nature would your 'natural law' include the Judeo/Christian "thou shalt not kill" and "thou shalt not steal" or would it support the Viking 'fight and kill as many men as possible to secure your place in Asgarrd, take the spoils of those you defeat as your choose'?
If you really tried to discern laws from nature (purely) you would be a materialist. People like Hitchens and Dawkins take exactly this approach in their defense of atheism.
The "social darwinist" believes in natural law. At the height of that rejection of god-based morality and in favor of natural law someone with the pseudonym Ragnar Redbeard wrote the book "Might is Right", which posits that the only natural law is "might makes right" and the will to power, in the sense Neitzsche uses it.
The article you linked goes on to explain that "natural law" as used in the West is really "Christian Natural Law" as developed in the middle ages and codified into English law in the second millenium.
Only to the Freepers with a mindset of a 13 yr old boy...
that happens here when anything appears that has the word “sex’ in it...ha.
In regards to porn, the slippery slope argument was your side in the 1950s and 1960s and 1970s, until you got us to here.
You managed to replace American culture with the leftist’s wet dream. You should be reveling in your success.
whoa... I think we have a Libertarian.....nothing wrong with that...
Then go all the way and don’t pick and choose which “moral “ issues you want to avoid. What has pornography that encompasses criminal activity, child porn and human trafficking to do with your right to own a gun or what you read?
If we follow your logical train of thought...it’s none of our business about whether you buy a Playboy or a snuff film...Talk about taking this to the “illogical extreme.” But be my guest...its a free country.
These things concern me a lot more than Homeland Security interecpeting phone calls from Arabia.
Are you sure you are on the right site?
BTW: I see you are refusing to answer whether or not you support the Swiss repeal of incest laws (between consenting adults). Do you or don't you? Are you consistent in your philosophy, or do you still seek to draw some limits in the name of tradition.
It's any easy yes or no question, please answer.
No, I've simply learned to temper my own conservative viewpoints on certain social issues with my Oath to uphold and defend the Constitution.
And the Govt has already run amuck with what authority they've been given. Ceding anything in the arena of morality would be a disaster.
thanks for an insightful and intelligent response.
This is an important issue to discuss, you present valid points..those who do not agree with you seem to either attack the poster personally or just go to an extreme. Therefore , it is hard to have a discussion.
Free societies pay a high price for their freedom. Only in an anarchist or totalitarian society are issues “simple, and cut and dried.”
thanks for taking the time to post your views.
Probably not. A Second Wave Feminist is a lesbian - there's a Rule.
Porn actor have sex, for money, with other porn actors, while someone with a camera records the proceedings.
So somehow the presence or absence of a camera alters the nature of the activity?
Excellant, well thought out and honest response. Thanks for taking the time.
In a free society it is more of a responsibility and difficulty in defining the “law” so that Freedom and liberty are protected, yet we don’t degenerate into a form of anarchy. All societies , except Animal Farm, regulate themselves and doing so is not easy when the laws are not soooo black and white.
Your uncle obviously never met Helen Thomas.
Also, in Roman times, the father had the right to reject a baby. These outcasts were often saved by Christian who believed every life is sacred.
I stand corrected. My main point was that Eisenhower wanted a national road system to help for the defense of the country. In his early career, he was tasked to travel over the country to look at the conditions of America’s roads. When he was in Germany, he was impressed with the autobahn and how it support German, and ironically, allied troops with supplies.
And, the Russians learned the same lesson with the opposite result.
They shunned road building to prevent invaders from easy entry.
If it weren't being filmed with an eye to profiting off of the sale / rental of the filmed activity, it's a good bet that the activity wouldn't be taking place *nearly* to that extent.
Also consider the role of "fluffers."
If it were purely for pleasure, as in conventional prostitution, they wouldn't be used or needed.
An excellent article. One other question for the casual viewer of porn: Is it addictive? The answer is Yes.
Here is a fresh thread for discussing the Constitution and "rights".
While I personally may not approve of the behavior or activities of some consenting adults, I would equally disapprove of some Govt authority invoking a particular "morality" (Judeo-Christian or otherwise) to limit their rights/freedoms to engage in such behaviour. As an example, I deplore the so-called "War on Christmas" as a direct infringement on the freedom of Americans wishing to openly celebrate the holiday, much the same as any infringement on the Right to keep and bear (openly or otherwise) arms.
With regards to Switzerland, if it were already on the books and I were a Swiss legislator, I'd vote to leave it there. At the same time I applaud that each Swiss household contains an assault rifle.
Less Government, more freedom.