Skip to comments.Twenty Questions About Pornography. This Is A Test.
Posted on 12/18/2010 8:01:19 AM PST by IbJensen
Pornography has invaded the worlds imagination. It is everywhere: On the Internet, in films, in movies, in rap music videos. Five-year-old girls dress and are taught to behave like pornography stars in order to win beauty contests. Ten- to twelve-year-old girls both dress and behave like the pornographic images that surround themand they provide sexual services to young boys.
Operahigh culturehas also been increasingly sexed up. I have seen productions of Carmen and Lulu in which the lead diva was half-naked and in which she, too, sang the role as if she was a contemporary pornography star and prostitute.
No, I do not like any of this.
Yes, I take it all very seriouslyas many Second Wave feminists and our Christian and conservative allies once did.
No, I do not think that hiding women beneath burqas is, therefore, any kind of solution. In fact, both pornography and prostitution are booming businesses in most Muslim countries.
Before we go any further, lets play twenty questions. I really want your answers.
1. Is pornography work or is it a violent crime?
2. Is pornography free speech in action or is it a violent, often murderous crime?
3. Is pornography really a victimless crime?
4. Are pimps, johns, traffickers, and landlords being victimized? If so, why are they not complaining?
5. Are the people, mainly men, who buy and watch pornography being victimized? If so, why are they not complaining? Is anyone forcing them to consume pornography?
6. Are the seductive, taunting, smiling, naked girls and women who are being paid good moneyvictims? If so, why dont they complain, leave, find some other job?
7. Isnt working in pornography a job just like any other joblike any other acting job?
8. Arent pornography actors there of their own free willfor the easy money, the attention, the stardom?
9. Isnt our right to see and read whatever interests us essential to our fundamental liberty?
10. Doesnt the First Amendment guarantee us this right? If we criminalize one kind of free speech, where will it end? Who will decide what information or images we are allowed to see? Wont state or religious censorship chill our rights, even our very thoughts?
11. On behalf of free speech, and privacy rights, didnt Second Wave feminists avidly collaborate with pornographers to ensure that pornography remained a civil right?
12. Didnt Second Wave feminists launch the battle against violence against women, which included sexual harassment, rape, incest, domestic batteringas well as the most serious battle against pornography and prostitution? Werent they vilified for collaborating with Christians and conservatives on the issue of pornography and prostitution?
13. How many women from wealthy and prominent families, or with advanced educations, choose to work in pornography or as prostitutes?
14. Did you know that, by definition, pornography is that which has to do with prostitutes. Porne in Greek is a prostitute. The so-called actresses in pornography are treated as if they areand usually soon arealso working as prostitutes.
15. How different is being a prostitute from being a stripper, massage therapist, or a nurse?
16. How many prostituted girls and women are actually free to leave, walk out, give it all up?
17. Where might they go? Where might they call home? Who will help them get off drugs and alcohol, restore their ravaged health, support them as they deal with the sexually transmitted diseases, including AIDS, with which johns have infected them?
18. Do you have any idea of what the average age of a pornography actress/prostitute is?
19. How long a shelf-life does a working girl (prostitute, pornography actress) actually have?
20. Why does pornography turn people on?
I lived through the great feminist Sex Wars. I was both a participant and an eye-witness, as well as a confidante to feminists who were on both sides of this War. But before I share memories and analysis, I really want to hear from you. Your answers will help me understand how to share a vast body of knowledge and history with you in the most productive way. Heres a hint to help you think through these questions.
Pornography is a multi-billion dollar industry, right up there with guns and drugs. It is enormously profitable but not to the workers, most of whom are girls and women who have been sold by their parents, captured in war, kidnapped off the street, forced by their husbands, or who have been driven by poverty, racism, incest, and the most violent sexism into the arms of pimps, traffickers, landlords, advertisers, law enforcement officers, and johns.
Phyllis Chesler, Ph.D is an Emerita Professor of Psychology and Women's Studies at City University of New York. She is an author, psychotherapist and an expert courtroom witness. She has lectured and organized political, legal, religious and human rights campaigns in the United States and in Canada, Europe, the Middle East and the Far East. A popular guest on campuses and in national and international print, television, radio and online media, she has been an expert commentator on the major events of our time. She has lived in Kabul, Afghanistan, and in Jerusalem and Tel Aviv. She currently resides in Manhattan.
I guess some social conservatives will have to choose between the Constitution and morality, not an easy one.
I know one who would say that “porn” leads to marxism. So does throwing out the right to free speech.
In the Citizens United case, a movie was considered free speech. I know what I would choose.
LOL, you sound like a social liberal that is part of the post 1960s America, stop conservatism, fight Christianity, fight traditional American conservatism, crowd.
Porn was not allowed until the left tookover America.
“Im not quite ready to see a civil war with over six hundred thousand deaths happening over porn, are you?”
Which is why Britain had a civil war over this. Oh wait, no they didn’t. Land of Lincoln, who did use force to try to convince people who didn’t want abolition.
Wilberforce acheived his goal through legislation over the course of his entire career, eventually managing to pass the bill. How is that coercion? Coercion would be passing the bill without the support of the people, and the people of Britain eventually came around to his way of thinking. This is the ideal way a democracy ought to work.
Or you can do what Lincoln did. Your choice.
I dont think all legislation is legislating morality. The actual functions of government - defense, law, infrastructure are morality neutral. We should leave morality to the people, not the government. Otherwise, one day some Congress we dont like will come along and legislate their morality.
Chessler is one of the ONLY women to come out of the Femminist Movement of the 60’s or 70’s who is now vey conservative and also criticizes left wing liberal “feminnists”...
Conservatives—men and women—should be supportive of her.
So hold off on your making the case for the Libs, that conservatives are just anti-women, pro pronography and just make fun of women who are not “attractive”.
And wonder where the Christian Freepers are on threads like this? Pornography , I guess is just oky doky with Christian conservative men and their wives.NOT.
Dr. Phyllis Chesler
Gratitude and Humility
Not to mention
Chastity, Empathy, Fidelity, Love, Loyalty,
Prudence, Purity, Restraint, Self-Discipline,
Self-Respect, Sincerity, Temperance, and Wisdom
The injuries to self and others are multitudinous and insidious
They feed into our Obsessions, and starve the Spirit
Pornography is wholesale prostitution. Is prostitution illegal? ... Making pornography is as illegal as prostitution. At least one state (Harry Reid’s state of course) has legalized prostitution. However, a Nevada prostitute is not protected to do her trade if she goes to Tennessee. If porn is produced in Nevada, it would be illegal to sell it or distribute it in Tennessee. So, pornography is a states issue, not a federal issue. Some states have an affinity for the debasing behaviors of humankind, because they make money for government programs off of it.
"guns as causing murder, meat as cruelty to animals, tobacco/alcohol as causing health issues, CO2 as killing the planet, etc, etc, etc." you just described the PRO-PORNOGRAPHY crowd, way to go.
For centuries, naturally conservative America, could control those leftists, but now some of them even hang out with conservatives while promoting liberalism.
That sheep looks disturbingly happy.
lol - it never stops being funny.
No, all laws are rooted in morality of some sort. I think that if you present any law, I can show you a moral component behind it.
Pornography is not the same as prostitution. Prostitutes have sex with clients. Porn actors sell pictures to clients. A porn actor doesnt interact with the end user. Good hyperbole though.
Law and infrastructure are morality neutral???
Huh? We have LOTS of morality issues in our laws and in infrastructure as well....abortion or no abortion; child sexual exploitation or abuse or not; crime rackateering in the porn and prostitution industry; prostitution, etc etc.
Yes, free speech and choice are important...that does not mean we can’t have discussions and bring up issues or that we can restrict certain behaviors which are detrimental to society. its not that simple, but in a free society and one with a Constitution like ours, its not easy...but to have a decent society AND protect our Constitution is worth the struggles.
What is the difference between kinky and perverted?
It is kinky to use a feather.
It is perverted to use the whole chicken.
And the dude has his shirttail out.
These are all morality based. In fact, Moses dealt with what constitutes self defense as well as how and who is supposed to be in the military.
In law, the basis of debts, agency, property etc are all morality based and also the bible is the basis for most of what we base our fundamental ideas of fairness.
Finally, the infrastructure is a morality based construct. Arrangements from feudal systems, class systems, slavery, kingship's, constitutional systems are all based on an inherit understanding of morality.
Because it’s all about “God, Family, Country, Life & Liberty” .... until it isn’t, on sites like FR.
I had an uncle who always said
"There is no such thing as an ugly woman, there are some though, who are just barely pretty."
Pornography is wholesale prostitution. Where did you learn that all prostitution culminates in sex with the physically present female or male? ... Your argument sounds vaguely familiar, similar to the one Jimmy Swaggert tried, to exhonorate himself for hiring prostitutes but he didn’t have physical sex with them. Your perspective is vaguely like sinkEmperor clintoon’s, telling the world his oral sex with Monica was not sex. But nice rationalization for your desired behavior.
I guess if you want to say it is moral to let everyone have free speech, I could see where you are coming from. I look at it differently, though.
Some laws have moral components, but some are just plain legislating morality. I dont think raising funds for a highway is legislating morality, but I guess some people might.
It's kind of depressing, isn't it? I, too, am sick of the sexualized images that are EVERYWHERE. I mean, geez, the billboards here in Los Angeles are like Playboy. Even selling women's shoes and purses, they use naked girls who look like they're 14. I dress to cover myself more and more out of pure reaction.
>>Pornography is a multi-billion dollar industry, right up there with guns and drugs.
>Which one of these is not like the other?
Guns. You cannot defend your property or life using pornography or drugs.
Naked woman = basic biology = boner. Thank you for letting me explain
No truer words have been said,LOL
The issues seem simple to me:
(1) Most men and women like sex. That’s biology.
(2) Most men and a surprising number of women like watching attractive people having sex. That’s biology, too.
(3) We “legislate morality” all the time.
(4) Legislating morality gives the government power.
(5) Because of (4), morality should be legislated ONLY when (a) effective and (b) necessary to protect innocent people from bad people.
(6) Because of (1) and (2), legislating porn will be minimally effective at best, esp. in the internet age, without trampling everyone’s rights.
(7) Because of (5) and (6), we should not legislate porn unless producing it involves physical force, coercion, kids, etc. There’s also that First Amendment thing.
And here’s the kicker where our society is failing:
(8) Legal doesn’t mean moral or something we should treat as virtuous. Fight porn culturally, not legislatively. After all, a culture where “legal” is the sole determinant of virtuous is already dead.
OK, I’ll don my asbestos suit now...
We should restrict behaviors harmful to individuals - theft, murder - but not behaviors that two individuals willingly do that offend a third person who is not involved. That is the path to serfdom.
Why not? They are the same type of people, they just chose a "side" based on what scared them earliest in life.
Kathryn Jean Lopez interviews Phyllis Chesler
A Radical Feminist Comes Out for Bush
Legislation, by definition, involves coercion, as in the use of government force to compel compliance. Non-coercion would mean the use of persuasion to get people to voluntarily stop.
Also, England had no significant number of slaves IN ENGLAND where the voters were. The legislation also paid off the slave owners in Jamaica and elsewhere for the price of their slaves.
some excerpts of Chesler’s writing
...the “Left” is aggressively secular and anti-religious; considers pornography to be “protected” hate speech; considers prostitution and trafficking to be forms of “sex work” which should be de-criminalized or legalized; views paternal sole-custody of children as the feminist solution to the problems that mothers have when they juggle child care and career responsibilities; believes that men and women are actually the “same”; has absolutely no foreign policy except that of opposing whatever President Bush and America do or ever have done...
I mourn the Stalinization and Palestinianization of the feminist postcolonial and postmodern academy and media. Because such feminists refuse to “judge” Islamic gender apartheid, they and their institutions and organizations have become anti-activist, anti-American, anti-Israeli, isolationist, and, at best, tools of the Democratic party. At worst, they are apologists for Islamist jihad. To avoid the McCarthyite charge of “racism,” such feminists have been willing to sacrifice the victims of Islamism on their “multicultural” altars.
Today, the level of anti-American and anti-Jewish propaganda in the Islamic world is lethal, toxic, and has unleashed a global jihad against both Israel and the West. We cannot afford to tolerate the intolerant nor can we afford to minimize the dangers to our civilization posed by Islamist fanatics who have successfully hijacked their religion and peoples. There were also “good” and moderate Germans during Hitler’s reign. What matters is that they did not stand up to Hitler. What matters is that otherwise “good” people appeased him as well....
If someone thinks for herself in an independent and creative way and dares to come up with non-party-line conclusions, she or he is then, in classic Orwellian style, deemed the enemy, a traitor, a non-person. Their work will not be read or discussed. They will not be invited to debate or to debate in a civilized and honorable way. They will be called a “racist” and a “neoconservative.” If a feminist dares raise the specter of Jew-hatred and the demonization of the Jewish state among leftists and feminists, she will quickly discover that she has become unwelcome in the mainstream media and among leftists (who actually think of themselves as liberals), and among feminists. Palestinianized Western feminists are more concerned with the so-called occupation of a country that does not exist (Palestine), than with the occupation of women’s bodies worldwide under Islam. The fact that feminists and leftists still continue to call for boycotts of Israel and to actively demonstrate against a war-time president even after 9/11, 3/11, and 7/7 tells me that they have literally been brainwashed and that reality has no defining role in determining their thoughts or their actions.
Webster disagrees with you. Using bad analogies multiple times doesnt make them more true.
Typical FR “God, family and country” fare isn’t it?
Ah, so it's about "controlling" people... in a supposedly free society?? And you're here on FreeRepublic??
"Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness" means just that, and just as much as "the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed" means (should mean) just that.
You may not like some libertine individuals' pursuit of happiness any more than they like you keeping and bearing arms. Too bad.
Perhaps you are confusing laws forcing or restraining certain actions from laws forcing attitudes or forcing people to love others.
To put it simply, we have a house "law" that requires our boys to take out the garbage but this house "law" does nothing to make their hearts change so that they want to take out the garbage.
Likewise, we can create laws that ban certain actions but doing so does not change the underlying nature of the person and just like our boys will find a million excuses to avoid taking the garbage out so laws that force people to adopt a behavior will likely fail because their heart is not in it.
“Wilberforce acheived his goal through legislation over the course of his entire career, eventually managing to pass the bill. How is that coercion?”
With respect, all government is force. As Washington said (paraphrasing), it is a fearful master and a dangerous servant.
A bill is coercion of at least some people. Otherwise, the bill wouldn’t do anything.
Women and Men are clearly different.
Visual presentations of Female Surface Anatomy
cause a direct hit to the Endorphin Pathways - in Men
might as well be a narcotic rush
Visual Presentations of Male Surface Anatomy cause
... No response ... in Women
The Genders might as well be Different Species in this regard
Women sort of figure this out - by the age 4
Commanding the consequences of this
is what Adolescence is all about
If one does not learn to command self
the behavior is sub-adult
One might as well be pooping in their diapers
But you forget that the interstate system was proposed under the Eisenhower administration to help in the defense of the country to mobiles troops and supplies. Also, IIRC, originally 1 mile in every 5 was to be straight, so that is could potentially be used as a runway.
Once one builds a road, it is imperative that they maintain it; otherwise you risk injury and death of those who use it.
So highways were partially designed to support self-defense, a moral issue, and their maintenance is to prevent injury and death, also a moral issue.
Pretty much my position.
Do you really want to continue trying to defend sexual degeneracy on Freerepublic discussion threads? I don’t go to Webster’s for affirmation of morality. It is sad that you would. Have you ever heard of the thing called ‘spiritual discernment’?
“Which one of these is not like the other?”
Other than shooting guns, they are not addictive? :)
“Which one of these is not like the other?”
Other than shooting guns, they are not addictive? :)
“Which one of these is not like the other?”
Other than shooting guns, they are not addictive? :)
Yes, but she’s not pretty, so that’s all that counts on a site like FR.
You asked why I thought prostitution was a physical relationship and I told you. Im not using it to affirm my beliefs on anything, other than affirming the definition of a word that you compared to a different word. Have you ever heard of not writing a check you cant cash?
Make sure you wash up afterward... [/duck]
When you grow up, I might continue the discussion ... but that is a big ‘when’ question. Pornography is wholesale prostituting of the people displayed sexually/for sexual excitation or inticement of others.
So you support the left and you are here on God loving, social conservative freerepublic?
You may not like traditional, pre-1960s, pre-leftism, America, but this is the wrong place to push the left’s modern agenda.