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Heart-stopping! Medics limit CPR amid 911 backlog
nypost.com ^ | Dec. 28, 2010 | LARRY CELONA, SERGEY KADINSKY and LEONARD GREENE

Posted on 12/28/2010 7:11:33 PM PST by Free ThinkerNY

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1 posted on 12/28/2010 7:11:36 PM PST by Free ThinkerNY
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To: Free ThinkerNY

I have a hard time getting upset over this....sounds like triage.


2 posted on 12/28/2010 7:14:00 PM PST by Repeat Offender (While the wicked stand confounded, call me with Thy Saints surrounded)
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To: Free ThinkerNY

New York: it’s a great place to die.


3 posted on 12/28/2010 7:14:15 PM PST by Clint Williams (America -- a great idea, didn't last. The only reasonable response to jihad is Crusade.)
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To: Free ThinkerNY

Obama Care Begins


4 posted on 12/28/2010 7:14:48 PM PST by Core_Conservative (No longer a Republican - A Proud Constitutional Conservative)
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To: Free ThinkerNY

I can’t imagine performing CPR for an hour.


5 posted on 12/28/2010 7:14:55 PM PST by Eaker (In the middle of difficulty lies opportunity. Albert Einstein)
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To: Free ThinkerNY

Obama Care Begins


6 posted on 12/28/2010 7:14:55 PM PST by Core_Conservative (No longer a Republican - A Proud Constitutional Conservative)
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To: Free ThinkerNY

Sounds like a “DEATH PANEL” to me


7 posted on 12/28/2010 7:20:04 PM PST by CMailBag
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To: Repeat Offender

Anyone who is getting upset over this needs to volunteer their services.


8 posted on 12/28/2010 7:21:49 PM PST by B4Ranch (Do NOT remain seated until this ride comes to a full and complete stop! We're going the wrong way!)
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To: Free ThinkerNY

Some of my friends wondered why I got so upset when O said we could absorb another 9-11. They don’t understand that in an emergency, all bets are off. Fire-Rescue can only do what they can do. If this occurred with a heavy snow, can you imagine what would happen with another attack of sorts? Just a thought.


9 posted on 12/28/2010 7:23:07 PM PST by momtothree
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To: B4Ranch
Patrick Bahnken, head of the paramedics and EMT union

I bet if the didn't have such nonsense as an "EMT union," they could hire, oh gee I don't know more EMTs?

10 posted on 12/28/2010 7:26:31 PM PST by Repeat Offender (While the wicked stand confounded, call me with Thy Saints surrounded)
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To: Eaker

Statistically, the only hearts that really re-start are cold water drownings, children, and witnessed MI’s with EARLY CPR. In my experience, in almost every other case, CPR only prolongs death.


11 posted on 12/28/2010 7:27:53 PM PST by boop ("Let's just say they'll be satisfied with LESS"... Ming the Merciless)
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To: B4Ranch

Couldn’t loved ones take over? I mean, once the 20 minutes had passed, someone could be trained to do the basics, couldn’t they?

Besides, how many people revive after an hour? What are the possibilities of making it after that long?


12 posted on 12/28/2010 7:30:12 PM PST by TruthConquers (Delendae sunt publicae scholae)
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To: Core_Conservative
Obama Care Begins

Yep, and the online shills are tripping over themselves to applaud it, selling out their own country literally into death for a paycheck and a hope that their loyalty will mean they get eaten last.

Their traitorous, cowardly, stupidity is revolting.

13 posted on 12/28/2010 7:32:49 PM PST by Talisker (When you find a turtle on top of a fence post, you can be damn sure it didn't get there on its own.)
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To: Repeat Offender

Exactly. If after 20 minutes the person isn’t viable enough to transport, then move on to someone who could survive.


14 posted on 12/28/2010 7:33:11 PM PST by Blood of Tyrants (Islam is the religion of Satan and Mohammed was his minion.)
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To: Repeat Offender
I have a hard time getting upset over this....sounds like triage.

In real life, in only 5-10% of cases does CPR actually save the patient's life. This drops to under 2% if it's a case of EMTs doing CPR on people whose hearts were stopped for some unknown time before EMTs arrived. EMTs busy doing CPR on people unlikely to survive are unavailable to save people who WOULD survive if treated.

15 posted on 12/28/2010 7:33:21 PM PST by PapaBear3625 ("It is only when we've lost everything, that we are free to do anything" -- Fight Club)
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To: Free ThinkerNY

Last year’s February snowstorm in Pittsburgh resulted in deaths of patients who could not be reached by EMS. Our snowfall was significantly less & the roads simply were not maintained so it was inexcusable IMHO. I’m not sure about the NYC situation - same thing maybe?

In any event, 20 minutes of CPR is reasonable. If the patient dosent respond after that, they’re not gonna.


16 posted on 12/28/2010 7:34:01 PM PST by surroundedbyblue
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To: boop

I am grateful to be one of those statistics. De-fibbed twice by EMTs in the ambulance after an MI. That was nearly 19 years ago, and I’ve been living a normal life ever since.


17 posted on 12/28/2010 7:37:21 PM PST by Inspectorette
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To: boop

I know.

My point was that CPR is physically exerting if performed properly.

An hour is a damn long time.


18 posted on 12/28/2010 7:38:40 PM PST by Eaker (In the middle of difficulty lies opportunity. Albert Einstein)
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To: boop
In my experience, in almost every other case, CPR only prolongs death.

BINGO! We get patients in the ER regularly who were down an unknown length of time, but due the fear of law suits, EMS codes 'em an heads to the ER. The docs do just enough to document death to prevent suits. Total waste of resources, especially in a crisis situation.

19 posted on 12/28/2010 7:40:29 PM PST by Islander7 (If you want to anger conservatives, lie to them. If you want to anger liberals, tell them the truth.)
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To: Free ThinkerNY
It's called triage.

You have to do it when your manpower is dwarfed by the emergency.

Nothing political or evil about it. The idea is to save the most people possible.

20 posted on 12/28/2010 7:42:11 PM PST by E. Pluribus Unum (DEFCON I ALERT: The federal cancer has metastasized. All personnel report to their battle stations.)
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To: TruthConquers

>>Couldn’t loved ones take over? <<

Sure, why not. The chances are very poor if you don’t have some O2 tanks.


21 posted on 12/28/2010 7:42:11 PM PST by B4Ranch (Do NOT remain seated until this ride comes to a full and complete stop! We're going the wrong way!)
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To: B4Ranch

I see.

Details, details, that would be important.


22 posted on 12/28/2010 7:44:32 PM PST by TruthConquers (Delendae sunt publicae scholae)
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To: Inspectorette; boop
I am grateful to be one of those statistics.

So is my son. He had an epileptic seizure and his heart stopped. I witnessed the seizure and 30 seconds or less of CPR restarted it. I doubt I could have or would have kept at it for an hour.

23 posted on 12/28/2010 7:46:18 PM PST by Eaker (In the middle of difficulty lies opportunity. Albert Einstein)
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To: Free ThinkerNY
NYC is over populated. Too many high risers. It's almost like a double decker city. Too many people, not enough EMTs. Congestion whether traffic or snow makes it impossible for timely rescue.

They should invent flying cars like in The Jetsons for emergencies.

24 posted on 12/28/2010 7:48:43 PM PST by 1_Rain_Drop
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To: Inspectorette
I am grateful to be one of those statistics. De-fibbed twice by EMTs in the ambulance after an MI.

That's good news. How much CPR did you receive before being shocked?

25 posted on 12/28/2010 7:53:24 PM PST by Moonman62 (Half of all Americans are above average. Politicians come from the other half.)
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To: TruthConquers

A defibrillator might come in handy too. One of those things that’s used to establish a normal rhythm. Then there’s a few drugs that could be suggested. Just little things that the guys use to keep you from drifting off too far and getting comfortable in the beyond.


26 posted on 12/28/2010 8:01:08 PM PST by B4Ranch (Do NOT remain seated until this ride comes to a full and complete stop! We're going the wrong way!)
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To: Free ThinkerNY; ExTexasRedhead
The number of calls was so high in the city that units from New Jersey were called in to help.

Anyone who voted for Bloomberg deserves what they got. Pat-downs and naked-body screenings at airports apparently have more priority for citizens than ensuring the city has top-level snow disaster (or any disaster) plans set in place. Bloomberg just oozes confidence that he's in control while people are dying for lack of such a disaster plan. Perhaps he was too busy sending emails trying to get that mosque built?

27 posted on 12/28/2010 8:09:33 PM PST by MamaDearest
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To: Eaker
I agree. There are times when we would work on a person for that length of time. Like I said, kids, especially. We just didn't WANT to give up. But some times you just have to.

I wish that doctors would talk to their terminal patients about their wishes. If not stated specifically, we HAD to initiate ACLS on people. One case still haunts me. A hospitalized terminal breast cancer patient who went into VF. She was TRYING to just die peacefully, but we had to put her body through the torture of intubation,chest compressions, central line placements, etc. I talk to my loved ones about this. Make your wishes KNOWN. I felt like a criminal doing this to this lady.

28 posted on 12/28/2010 8:10:25 PM PST by boop ("Let's just say they'll be satisfied with LESS"... Ming the Merciless)
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To: Free ThinkerNY
I am an American Heart BLS instructor.

For every minute that you don't get the heart restarted (by an AED or a defibrillator) the chances of survival go down 10 percent. The only exceptions are in a cold water drowning or exposure to cold to the point of hypothermia. Then they are declared dead when they are warmed and the medics still are unable to get the heart started. Therefore it is reasonable to be able to halt a normal code after 20 minutes.

In mass casualty situation you are directed to do scene size-ups using a method called :30 & 2 and can do. The can do patients are considered walking wounded and are green tagged. The 30 & 2 refers to respiration of < 30 or a capillary refill of 2 seconds. Any within those parameters is yellow tagged the rest are red tagged. If they have no heartbeat they are black tagged unless there is adequate resources to handle it, which is very unlikely.

29 posted on 12/28/2010 8:15:23 PM PST by notpoliticallycorewrecked (According to the MSM, I'm a fringe sitting, pajama wearing, Freeper)
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To: Free ThinkerNY

CPR in the field tends to be pretty ineffective no matter how well or how long it is done.


30 posted on 12/28/2010 8:18:53 PM PST by TASMANIANRED (Liberals are educated above their level of intelligence.. Thanks Sr. Angelica)
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To: Inspectorette

Not the same thing.


31 posted on 12/28/2010 8:22:45 PM PST by TASMANIANRED (Liberals are educated above their level of intelligence.. Thanks Sr. Angelica)
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To: boop

I am my companies first responder but it is clear you are a pro. I have enough training and experience to appreciate how much more of both you have than I do.

Great advice about end of life care too.


32 posted on 12/28/2010 8:26:38 PM PST by Eaker (In the middle of difficulty lies opportunity. Albert Einstein)
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To: Eaker

I did it once. Saved the guys life his doctor said. But not an hour, about 15 minutes ‘till EMS showed up. I was past spent...


33 posted on 12/28/2010 8:35:32 PM PST by MileHi ( "It's coming down to patriots vs the politicians." - ovrtaxt)
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To: MileHi
I was past spent...

That's what I'm talking about. Lots of work.

34 posted on 12/28/2010 8:39:42 PM PST by Eaker (In the middle of difficulty lies opportunity. Albert Einstein)
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To: Eaker

It is also the stress of not knowing if you are doing it right, and a sense of panic. I had a company CPR class several years before.

My friend just exhailed and slid out of his chair mid sentance. It was surreal. I did get him back but didn’t know that when they hauled him out.


35 posted on 12/28/2010 8:46:05 PM PST by MileHi ( "It's coming down to patriots vs the politicians." - ovrtaxt)
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To: MileHi
It is also the stress of not knowing if you are doing it right

The guidelines keep changing too. Breaths to compressions.

One of my instructors told me, "You are working on a dead person, you can't make it worse." This is true but it doesn't reduce the stress.

Your friend owes you a beer. My son gave me a grandchild!

36 posted on 12/28/2010 8:53:42 PM PST by Eaker (In the middle of difficulty lies opportunity. Albert Einstein)
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To: boop

There’s a fine line between people who choose to forego possibly life saving treatment and those who are pressured into it.


37 posted on 12/28/2010 8:55:51 PM PST by HiTech RedNeck (I am in America but not of America (per bible: am in the world but not of it))
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To: Eaker
My son gave me a grandchild!

Good for you! My two grandsons are in Germany as of two weeks ago with my daughter and SIL for a 3 year hitch. Not happy about that but that is the Army. FReegars Eaker, and Happy New Year!

38 posted on 12/28/2010 9:00:22 PM PST by MileHi ( "It's coming down to patriots vs the politicians." - ovrtaxt)
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To: MileHi

I know you are proud of them!

My Tot is 15 months old so all I got him for Christmas is a little bit of det cord.....

I won’t get him a firearm until he is three or so just like my kids.

Happy New Year to you my friend!


39 posted on 12/28/2010 9:06:58 PM PST by Eaker (In the middle of difficulty lies opportunity. Albert Einstein)
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To: Eaker

LOL!


40 posted on 12/28/2010 9:08:59 PM PST by MileHi ( "It's coming down to patriots vs the politicians." - ovrtaxt)
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To: Free ThinkerNY

Rationing human life... the Left has arrived!


41 posted on 12/28/2010 9:25:36 PM PST by SaraJohnson
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To: TruthConquers
Couldn’t loved ones take over? I mean, once the 20 minutes had passed, someone could be trained to do the basics, couldn’t they?

The problem would be that the loved one would not be transported to the hospital. The FDNY Medics would leave the scene and call a hearse or more likely take the now deceased body with them.

It is likely that the FDNY Medics would prevent loved ones from intervening. A quick Google finds that intent to prevent an emergency medical services professional from performing his duty is a class C felony.

42 posted on 12/28/2010 9:57:51 PM PST by higgmeister ( In the Shadow of The Big Chicken!)
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To: boop

Amen. I was the first responder to a home hospice patient who arrested right before I got there. She’d only been diagnosed a week before with cancer metastasized everywhere, so the family weren’t ready to let go. No DNR. Do everything, they said.

So I hauled this poor woman off her bed onto the hard floor, broke a couple of ribs with the first chest compression, kept breaking ribs as we went on, suctioned out the stomach contents that the compressions brought up into her mouth and airway - and this is CPR done correctly, for those who don’t know. Brittle, old, cancer-riddled, or blunt trauma’d bones break and keep breaking.

Kept getting pulseless electrical activity on the cardiac monitor. I am very grateful that the ER doctor called a halt as soon as we got there.

I wish that the family had not called 911 when they did. That they had sat with her, and told her they loved her, and held her until they were ready to let go, and washed and dressed her, and then called us. How many times do you want your mother to die?

In this case, I don’t think the dying woman suffered from what we did to her, that she was gone. But sometimes there is more lingering, maybe more awareness. And the family lost something too. But they weren’t ready, and maybe thinking that they did everything they could and that we did too is consolation to them.


43 posted on 12/28/2010 10:09:18 PM PST by heartwood
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To: heartwood

That’s the rub. Some families think that if they don’t request “everything” be done for their loved one that they’ve “killed grandma”. I’ve been in situations where I very gently tell them that this is natural, we all die, let’s make grandma comfortable. I don’t get graphic, but I say, do we really want to put her through a full code? Is that what she would want? Myself, I would (and have) told my family absolutely not. Let me die peacefully if there’s no hope. And they know that I’m an organ donor, so please take what they (patients who would benefit) need if I’m brain dead and on life support.


44 posted on 12/28/2010 11:38:43 PM PST by boop ("Let's just say they'll be satisfied with LESS"... Ming the Merciless)
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To: Moonman62

Not very much - the EMTs tried CPR, but rapidly switched to the AED.


45 posted on 12/29/2010 6:29:24 AM PST by Inspectorette
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To: TASMANIANRED
Not the same thing.

Yes, that's true. In my case, the EMTs switched from CPR to AED, and de-fibbed me twice in the ambulance on the way to the hospital.

46 posted on 12/29/2010 6:31:27 AM PST by Inspectorette
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To: Free ThinkerNY

Good to see people getting comfortable with rationing.

The EMTs need to get to the next patient - an obese lady stuck in her bathtub.


47 posted on 12/29/2010 6:43:17 AM PST by ladyjane
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To: higgmeister

I originally posted thinking that the point was that the medics needed to move onto other patients under emergency conditions.

I was trying to find out what an average citizen could do to help their loved one after 20 minutes of CPR. I have gotten sound points about oxygen, and the need for drugs to keep them here and have a decent chance. If they did revive, taking to the hospital could be done by loved ones.

I don’t know if they would take a dead body with them when they are busy going to one emergency after another during extreme weather conditions.

But a felony???? Really??? How long has that been on the books?? If the person is DEAD, how could anyone be charged with interfering???


48 posted on 12/29/2010 1:14:01 PM PST by TruthConquers (Delendae sunt publicae scholae)
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To: TruthConquers
If the person is DEAD, how could anyone be charged with interfering???

I suspect if an EMT team declared someone beyond further help, they would not want a citizen to continue working on someone with the possibility of proving them wrong.

It's the government. They would probably not allow a private individual to intervene in any way at all.

49 posted on 12/29/2010 6:08:50 PM PST by higgmeister ( In the Shadow of The Big Chicken!)
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To: higgmeister

Hmmf.

I do not doubt that.


50 posted on 12/29/2010 8:58:19 PM PST by TruthConquers (Delendae sunt publicae scholae)
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