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Historical Coincidence and a Hawaiian Birth Certificate
the cutting edge news ^ | January 4th 2011 | Marc J. Rauch

Posted on 01/05/2011 12:09:44 PM PST by FreeAtlanta

I have this nasty habit of researching things that I take an interest in; I’ve been that way forever. I think I learned more from researching topics on my own than I did from formal schooling. I read a book, see a movie, hear an abbreviated news report, and bang I’m at the family encyclopedia, at the library, nowadays online. Well, there I was, in my kitchen slurping up some hot delicious soup and reading the tail end of a “new” Sam Spade novel written under license by a Dashiell Hammett biographer, Joe Gores. The story includes a fictional Chinese woman who claims to be the daughter of Sun Yat-sen, the real-life “father” of nationalist China. The overall Spade story takes place in San Francisco in the period between the end of WWI and the start of the Depression—it’s meant as a prequel to the Sam Spade Maltese Falcon novel.

I’m a bit rusty on my Sun Yat-sen legacy, so to brush up on his background and chronology of events I Googled “Sun Yat-sen.” At the top of the Wikipedia page, and again in a section titled “Early Years,” Sun’s birth date and then birth place is listed as November 12, 1866 in Guangdong province (16 miles north of Macau), in the Empire of the Great Qing of China.

Sun Yat-sen’s history goes on to relate how “after receiving a few years of local school, at age thirteen, Sun went to live with his elder brother, Sun Mei, in Honolulu. Sun Mei, who was fifteen years Sun Yat-sen's senior, had emigrated to the Hawaiian Islands as a laborer and had become a prosperous merchant.” According to the listed birth date the year that Sun went to Hawaii was 1879.

Everything jives with the new Spade novel; Joe Gores did his homework.

A bit more reading about Sun reveals that he eventually graduated from a small Hawaiian college and then returned to his native land, China. It’s at this point that Sun Yat-sen’s history took on a dramatic story twist, a twist that has absolutely nothing to do with Sam Spade, but it may be the key to solving a mystery story of its own—a story that has been simmering at the top of our national news ever since Barack Hussein Obama’s name began being bandied about as a presidential candidate.

It seems that around the turn of the century—the old one—1900 or 1901, Sun Yat-sen returned to Hawaii. It was at this time in his life that Sun was involved in politics and trying to free China from its dictatorial monarchy. In 1904, Sun obtained a “Certificate of Hawaiian Birth,” issued by the Territory of Hawaii, stating he was born on November 24, 1870 in Kula, Maui. (See the Wikipedia entry at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun_Yat_Sen#cite_note-11)

The discrepancy of birthdates didn’t startle me, but the significance of the document’s meaning did.

It has been said that Barack Obama, current president of the United States of America, was not born in Hawaii or anywhere in America, as claimed by him and his supporters, thereby invalidating him to run for and hold the office of the President of the United States. For some peculiar reason, while a candidate for president must produce income tax records, he or she is not required to produce a genuine birth certificate.

Obama himself doesn’t respond to the issue, which could be answered by simply providing a legally acceptable copy of a genuine birth certificate. Instead, what has been circulated is something that is called a “Certificate of Live Birth” from the State of Hawaii. It sort of sounds the same, but even the State of Hawaii doesn’t say that a “Certificate of Live Birth” is just the name for the document that is otherwise known as a “Birth Certificate.” There is a distinctive difference. (Sun Yat-sen’s certificate of live birth can be found online at http://www.scribd.com/doc/9830547/Sun-Yatsen-Certification-of-Live-Birth-in-Hawaii )

Other resources corroborate Sun’s birth date and place as 1866 in China. See http://www.notablebiographies.com/St-Tr/Sun-Yat-Sen.html for example.

Some argue that proof of Obama’s Hawaiian birth can be found in the birth announcements of local Hawaiian newspapers. But, birth, death, and marriage announcements can be phoned in or submitted by mail. In today’s identity-theft, security-conscious world, it may require some institutional or quasi-governmental documentation to get one of these announcements published, but at the (alleged) time of Obama’s birth America and Hawaii was a very different place. Newborns were not immediately assigned social security numbers and I have the feeling that finger and sole prints were not regularly being taken.

So there are three, no four, conclusions that I draw from this research:

1) It’s a complete and utter coincidence that Hawaii issued Certificates of Live Birth to these two politicians.

2) Every one hundred years or so Hawaii issues a “fake” birth document to someone that they would like to call a native son.

3) Sun Yat-sen is really a native-born Hawaiian of Chinese ancestry, who returned to his ancestors’ homeland to fight for its freedom—something that all American-born Chinese can proudly salute.

4) You know, wink-wink, nudge-nudge.

There is one other strange but apparently true coincidence to this entire affair. Joe Gores, writer of the Sam Spade prequel Spade & Archer, who has worked in his life as a private investigator, a repo-man, a truck driver, a logger, motel assistant manager, and of course journalist, also worked as an English teacher in Kenya, Africa, perhaps around the time of Barack Obama's birth. You know, Kenya, the country where Barack Obama’s father was born and citizen of. (See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Gores)

Marc J. Rauch is co-publisher of the Auto Channel.


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs
KEYWORDS: birthcertificate; certifigate; naturalborncitizen; obama
interesting read.
1 posted on 01/05/2011 12:09:47 PM PST by FreeAtlanta
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To: FreeAtlanta

Actually, I think that has been the problem all along...

I thnk Obama is a bit older than he portrays, by about 2 to 3 years. I think he was actually born in the “territory of hawaii” before it was a state.

His Myspace page has shown his age at 50 to years ago....why? Was it just a mistake? It has now been corrected.

If you were born in Hawaii before it was a state, would you be eligible to run for President?


2 posted on 01/05/2011 12:20:49 PM PST by neverbluffer
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To: FreeAtlanta

Very interesting.


3 posted on 01/05/2011 12:21:09 PM PST by ElayneJ
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To: FreeAtlanta

OBAMA COLB


4 posted on 01/05/2011 12:25:00 PM PST by FrankR (The Evil Are Powerless If The Good Are Unafraid! - R. Reagan)
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To: neverbluffer
If you were born in Hawaii before it was a state, would you be eligible to run for President?

Was Barry Goldwater, born in the Arizona Territory, eligible to run in 1964?

5 posted on 01/05/2011 12:27:02 PM PST by Bubba Ho-Tep ("More weight!"--Giles Corey)
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To: neverbluffer

Yes, Barry Goldwater ran for President in 1964 and he was born in Arizona when it was a territory, before it became a state. Nobody made an issue of it then, because everyone agreed he was a NBC.


6 posted on 01/05/2011 12:49:21 PM PST by TNTNT
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To: neverbluffer

Yes, Barry Goldwater ran for President in 1964 and he was born in Arizona when it was a territory, before it became a state. Nobody made an issue of it then, because everyone agreed he was a NBC.


7 posted on 01/05/2011 12:49:22 PM PST by TNTNT
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To: neverbluffer
I thnk Obama is a bit older than he portrays, by about 2 to 3 years. I think he was actually born in the “territory of hawaii” before it was a state.

That would mean that he was born in Hawaii while his mother was still attending high school in Washington State.

8 posted on 01/05/2011 12:55:41 PM PST by wideminded
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To: wideminded

That would also make him older than me, which he’s definitely not.


9 posted on 01/05/2011 1:00:47 PM PST by william clark (Ecclesiastes 10:2)
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To: TNTNT
Nobody made an issue of it then, because everyone agreed he was a NBC.

I recall it being brought up and debated.

Even if "everyone" agrees, even if congress passes an act recognizing someone as a NBC, it doesn't make it so, and doesn't trump the Constitution. There is a grandfather clause in The Constitution for the Founding Fathers, but no mentions of the case such as Goldwater.

Hussein has played upon the premise that "everyone" thinks he is a NBC, and even if he isn't, no one cares. A kenyan usurper seized power in The United States of America, by using popular culture to subvert The Constitution.

10 posted on 01/05/2011 1:02:57 PM PST by The Sons of Liberty (Psalm 109:8 Let his days be few and let another take his office. - Mene, Mene, Tekel, Upharsin)
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To: STARWISE

Ping!


11 posted on 01/05/2011 1:18:51 PM PST by Faith
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To: FreeAtlanta; little jeremiah; bgill; Fred Nerks; LucyT; onyx; STARWISE

FreeAtlanta, thanks for posting this, it’s an interesting read.


12 posted on 01/05/2011 1:54:46 PM PST by hennie pennie
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To: neverbluffer

You asked
“If you were born in Hawaii before it was a state, would you be eligible to run for President?”
Only if both your parents were American citizens.
Odumbo’s aren’t no matter when he was born or where.
Even if he was born in Hi in Aug 1961 his father was not a US Citizen so he is not natural born.
All the dems and media just skip right over that.

additionally there is a serious concern that he was legally aopted by Soetoro, which in fact he would have had to have been adopted to be considered Lolo’s son for school in Indonesia
That means his birth certificate was changed, by law, in Hi to reflect that soetoro was his father.
From that change 0dumbo could have attended schools in USA as a foreign studentAND 0dumbo could have used an Indonesian passport to visit Pakistan in 81 and again in 83

I hope this stays an issue


13 posted on 01/05/2011 1:59:32 PM PST by RWGinger
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To: FreeAtlanta
Joe Gores, writer of the Sam Spade prequel Spade & Archer, who has worked in his life as a private investigator, a repo-man, a truck driver, a logger, motel assistant manager, and of course journalist, also worked as an English teacher in Kenya, Africa, perhaps around the time of Barack Obama's birth. You know, Kenya, the country where Barack Obama’s father was born and citizen of.

Everything above that is old news, but this is interesting in a Six Degrees to Hussein type of thing.

14 posted on 01/05/2011 2:01:50 PM PST by bgill (K Parliament- how could a young man born in Kenya who is not even a native American become the POTUS)
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To: wideminded
...That would mean that he was born in Hawaii while his mother was still attending high school in Washington State.

Only if you assume she was his mother...

15 posted on 01/05/2011 2:07:49 PM PST by Fred Nerks (fair dinkum)
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To: Fred Nerks

Since there is obviously a resemblance between Obama and his maternal grandfather, he must either be the child of Stanley Dunham or her father. It is not plausible that SAD would have dropped out of college to devote her young life to raising her father’s love child. It’s not even very plausible that the grandfather would have had custody of such a child or that SAD would have taken a love child of her father along if she planned to enroll in the University of Washington. In other words this whole idea makes no sense.


16 posted on 01/06/2011 1:08:29 AM PST by wideminded
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To: Fred Nerks

Good comment. I sure don’t assume that. I don’t assume anything about this man, because really - nothing about him is known for sure.


17 posted on 01/06/2011 3:10:38 AM PST by BlackVeil
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To: FreeAtlanta

Barry’s daddy was a British Citizen from Kenya. Barry can’t be a natural born citizen unless both parents are US citizens. That alone makes him ineliglible.

Nice research, though.


18 posted on 01/06/2011 7:31:08 AM PST by PhiloBedo (You gotta roll with the punches and get with what's real.)
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To: FreeAtlanta

The Sun-Yat Sen document demonstrates that a birth certificate can be obtained in Hawaii by merely submitting enough paperwork to convince someone in the state vital records office that you were born there, even when you weren’t.

We have no visible evidence that Obama ever had any kind of birth certificate from Hawaii before June 6, 2007 (presuming the alleged COLB is genuine). The birth announcements in the 1961 newspapers, for example, do not prove what kind of birth certificate he had, if any, when he was born. Obama could have come back 45 years later and gave the Hawaii Department of Health a bunch of affadavits in order to obtain the alleged COLB that is posted as his campaign website.


19 posted on 01/06/2011 8:10:00 AM PST by edge919
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To: wideminded

AND IF HE DOES NOT RESEMBLE HIS GRANDFATHER, WHAT THEN?

20 posted on 01/06/2011 12:30:21 PM PST by Fred Nerks (fair dinkum)
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To: Fred Nerks
AND IF HE DOES NOT RESEMBLE HIS GRANDFATHER, WHAT THEN?

To my eye, and I think for many other people, the very pictures you posted show your assumption to be incorrect. Naturally these two men are not going to look identical but they have a very similar jaw line that many people have remarked upon, including right here on this website.

21 posted on 01/06/2011 4:06:03 PM PST by wideminded
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To: wideminded

But my granddaughter looks more like me than either parent. So, resemblance to his grandparent means nothing much.


22 posted on 01/06/2011 5:26:35 PM PST by vharlow
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To: vharlow
But my granddaughter looks more like me than either parent. So, resemblance to his grandparent means nothing much.

You just contradicted yourself. The fact that your granddaughter looks like you is evidence that she is related to you.

That's exactly what I was saying is the case with Obama and his grandfather Stanley Dunham.

If you had been following my discussion with "Fred Nerks" you would see that I am NOT claiming that Obama is really the son of his grandfather (as a number of people around here seem to believe). Mr. Nerks often brings up a number of weird theories such as Stanley Ann Dunham is not really Obama's mother and I think that the above mentioned resemblance is evidence against this idea.

BTW my son looked a lot like my father for a while. At other times people have said he looks like me.

23 posted on 01/06/2011 7:24:51 PM PST by wideminded
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To: neverbluffer

“If you were born in Hawaii before it was a state, would you be eligible to run for President?”

Perhaps, if your parents were both US citizens. Per Vattel: “THE whole of the countries possessed by a nation and subject to its laws, forms, as we have already said, its territory, and is the common country of all the individuals of the nation.” Thus, a territory is part of the nation and citizens of the territory are citizens of the nation. However, both parents must be citizens for the child to be a natural born citizen.

Again, per Vattel: “The citizens are the members of the civil society; bound to this society by certain duties, and subject to its authority, they equally participate in its advantages. The natives, or natural-born citizens, are those born in the country, of parents who are citizens. As the society cannot exist and perpetuate itself otherwise than by the children of the citizens, those children naturally follow the condition of their fathers, and succeed to all their rights. The society is supposed to desire this, in consequence of what it owes to its own preservation; and it is presumed, as matter of course, that each citizen, on entering into society, reserves to his children the right of becoming members of it. The country of the fathers is therefore that of the children; and these become true citizens merely by their tacit consent. We shall soon see whether, on their coming to the years of discretion, they may renounce their right, and what they owe to the society in which they were born. I say, that, in order to be of the country, it is necessary that a person be born of a father who is a citizen; for, if he is born there of a foreigner, it will be only the place of his birth, and not his country.” Because Obama was born of a foreign father, if he was born in Hawaii the US is merely his place of birth, not his country.


24 posted on 01/06/2011 8:41:47 PM PST by skookum55 ("We can give up on America or we can give up on this president ...." D. D'Souza)
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To: All; FreeAtlanta

.

NEVER FORGET

.

During the 1960’s I personally witnessed several new Mommies coming in to ship their cars back to Hawaii (via Matson Lines http://www.Matson.com ) shortly after their giving birth elsewhere, inside or outside the Mainland United States.

These new Mommies were told by other Mommies present to just go to the Honolulu Officals and proclaim that thier newborns were born in Hawaii and a Birth Certificate showing so would be automatically produced.

It was THAT commonplace ..and well known about by many.. back then..!!!

This was during a 9-10 year window after Hawaiian Statehood when they could get away with it.

.

NEVER FORGET

.


25 posted on 01/19/2011 1:09:29 PM PST by ALOHA RONNIE ("ALOHA RONNIE" Guyer/Veteran-"WE WERE SOLDIERS" Battle of IA DRANG-1965 http://www.lzxray.com)
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