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Faceoff! States tell feds to back down
World Net Daily ^ | 01-24-11 | Bob Unruh

Posted on 01/24/2011 11:08:57 AM PST by RepublicnotaDemocracy

What if Washington made a law and nobody paid attention? Or even more significantly, what if states specifically repudiated it and threatened to prosecute those enforcing it?

The questions no longer are rhetorical but a real option as eight states consider a blanket nullification of the Obamacare nationalization of health-care decision-making advances in their legislatures.

"Thomas Jefferson advised, 'Whensoever the general government assumes undelegated powers ... a nullification of the act is the rightful remedy,'" states the Tenth Amendment Center, which advocates a return to the constitutionally delegated powers for the federal government.

"When states pass laws to reject and nullify unconstitutional federal 'laws,' regulations and mandates – it's not rebellion ... it's duty," the organization states.

States already have been moving forward aggressively on several issues, with eight approving firearms freedom acts that reject some federal gun laws, 15 actively defying Washington on cannabis laws and seven passing acts that reject health-care mandates.

Now, however, they are moving a step beyond, according to center founder Michael Boldin.

He told WND today that seven states have introduced acts to nullify the federal health-care reform – including New Hampshire, Maine, Montana, Oregon, Nebraska, Texas and Wyoming. A similar proposal is expected to be filed in Idaho within a matter of days.

It's another, and very important, field on which states can battle federal demands of their citizens, he said.

(Excerpt) Read more at wnd.com ...


TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: 10thamendment; braking; climatechange; globalwarminghoax; nullification; obamacare; statesrights
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1 posted on 01/24/2011 11:09:02 AM PST by RepublicnotaDemocracy
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To: RepublicnotaDemocracy

This is already Breaking News here: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2662195/posts

Is the WND take on it also Breaking News?


2 posted on 01/24/2011 11:16:20 AM PST by Christian Engineer Mass (Capitol Hill operator 866-727-4894 toll free. Just say which Representative/Senator you want to spea)
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To: RepublicnotaDemocracy; NormsRevenge; steelyourfaith; Grampa Dave; SierraWasp; tubebender; ...
Good.

let's include the acts by the EPA to enforce CO2 limits on power companies....

3 posted on 01/24/2011 11:18:43 AM PST by Ernest_at_the_Beach ( Support Geert Wilders)
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To: RepublicnotaDemocracy

Refusing to have state offices and courts participate in the implementation of Obamacare is one thing. Punishing private companies that do the paperwork, pay the taxes, and buy the insurance is another. Corporations are not going to defy the federal government unless they expect the consequences to be less for defiance than for compliance. Until the states are willing to pit one set of bureaucrats, LEO’s, and courts against another these “nullifications” are meaningless.


4 posted on 01/24/2011 11:24:43 AM PST by SeeSharp
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To: RepublicnotaDemocracy

If large cities and states can refuse to enforce Federal Immigration laws - totally refuse to turn over suspected illegal aliens, then a state can refuse to abide by or enforce any Federal law.


5 posted on 01/24/2011 11:25:34 AM PST by ICCtheWay
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To: Christian Engineer Mass

Refudiate Obamacare!


6 posted on 01/24/2011 11:26:50 AM PST by AU72
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To: RepublicnotaDemocracy
This has happened several times before. All the way from the Whiskey Rebellion to the school board desegregation in Little Rock, Arkansas. In each and every case the feds have sent in the troops. When Washington and Eisenhower did it the states backed down without a shot being fired. When Lincoln did it the states fought and close the three quarters of a million people died and half the country was lain waste.

We are playing a dangerous game of poker with nullification. Everyone needs to know what the stakes are and know what they are going to do if Obama goes all in. And the best way to get a lot of people dead is to let the other guy think even for a second that we are bluffing on a pair of deuces.
7 posted on 01/24/2011 11:29:04 AM PST by GonzoGOP (There are millions of paranoid people in the world and they are all out to get me.)
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To: SeeSharp

Correct...when the feds swoop in to arrest those abiding by state laws but refusing to obide by illegal federal laws, unless the state police are there on the spot to not only free the illegally arrested citizen, but to arrest the officers from the feds engaged in the illegal arrest and detention of said citizen, nothing will happen, nothing will change...vote for me for governor, and this will happen, I do solemnly swear


8 posted on 01/24/2011 11:29:15 AM PST by joe fonebone (The House has oversight of the Judiciary...why are the rogue judges not being impeached?)
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To: FReepers

Defeat OBAMA Care. Donate to Free Republic!


9 posted on 01/24/2011 11:30:08 AM PST by RedMDer (restoration of our honor, dignity, and freedoms will save America. - Sarah Palin)
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To: ICCtheWay
If large cities and states can refuse to enforce Federal Immigration laws

They are getting away with that only because the Federal government is also refusing to enforce the immigration laws. It'll be different with the communist holy grail of socialized medicine.

10 posted on 01/24/2011 11:34:47 AM PST by SeeSharp
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To: GonzoGOP
In each and every case the feds have sent in the troops.

They're pushing their luck. People are fed up with this crap.

11 posted on 01/24/2011 11:38:53 AM PST by unixfox (Abolish Slavery, Repeal The 16th Amendment!)
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To: RepublicnotaDemocracy
"Thomas Jefferson advised, 'Whensoever the general government assumes undelegated powers ... a nullification of the act is the rightful remedy,'" states the Tenth Amendment Center, which advocates a return to the constitutionally delegated powers for the federal government.

Jefferson's Republic ended with the 14th Amendment. It will be very interesting to see how this plays out.

12 posted on 01/24/2011 11:42:55 AM PST by Carry_Okie (The environment is too complex and too important to manage by central planning.)
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To: Carry_Okie

The states would have a greater ability to insist on their Constitutional rights, if they managed their own affairs more responsibly. In both Canada and the US (both federal sytems with state/provincial and federal levels of government) the federal governments have been able to usurp power by bribing states/provinces into ceding control over matters of state/provincial jurisdiction. The feds know that many state governments will sell these Constitutional rights in exchange for federal grants. All we have to do is remember how the states clamoured for Obama’s bailout money.


13 posted on 01/24/2011 11:53:49 AM PST by littleharbour
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach

Couldn’t agree more


14 posted on 01/24/2011 12:01:31 PM PST by BOBTHENAILER (EPA will ruin your life)
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To: GonzoGOP

This has happened several times before. All the way from the Whiskey Rebellion to the school board desegregation in Little Rock, Arkansas. In each and every case the feds have sent in the troops. When Washington and Eisenhower did it the states backed down without a shot being fired. When Lincoln did it the states fought and close the three quarters of a million people died and half the country was lain waste.

We are playing a dangerous game of poker with nullification. Everyone needs to know what the stakes are and know what they are going to do if Obama goes all in. And the best way to get a lot of people dead is to let the other guy think even for a second that we are bluffing on a pair of deuces.


England thought the Colonies were bluffing too. They sent in troops. Didn’t work out so good for the tyrants in that instance.

You’re correct of course. Everyone had better understand EXACTLY what’s at stake. But if we live in a REPUBLIC, then let’s be a Republic — and if we live in a DICTATORSHIP, let’s KNOW IT NOW.

Nullification is a practice whose time has come again. It must, if the Republic is to be saved. If there is no Republic, then let us accept our fate as serfs in a new world order, or begin a fight to the death for the Liberty we’ve lost. Better to know, than not to know....And I think we hold a bit more than a paid of deuces — don’t you?


15 posted on 01/24/2011 12:06:05 PM PST by patriot preacher
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To: GonzoGOP

This has happened several times before. All the way from the Whiskey Rebellion to the school board desegregation in Little Rock, Arkansas. In each and every case the feds have sent in the troops. When Washington and Eisenhower did it the states backed down without a shot being fired. When Lincoln did it the states fought and close the three quarters of a million people died and half the country was lain waste.

We are playing a dangerous game of poker with nullification. Everyone needs to know what the stakes are and know what they are going to do if Obama goes all in. And the best way to get a lot of people dead is to let the other guy think even for a second that we are bluffing on a pair of deuces.


England thought the Colonies were bluffing too. They sent in troops. Didn’t work out so good for the tyrants in that instance.

You’re correct of course. Everyone had better understand EXACTLY what’s at stake. But if we live in a REPUBLIC, then let’s be a Republic — and if we live in a DICTATORSHIP, let’s KNOW IT NOW.

Nullification is a practice whose time has come again. It must, if the Republic is to be saved. If there is no Republic, then let us accept our fate as serfs in a new world order, or begin a fight to the death for the Liberty we’ve lost. Better to know, than not to know....And I think we hold a bit more than a paid of deuces — don’t you?


16 posted on 01/24/2011 12:06:31 PM PST by patriot preacher
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To: RedMDer

If I remember correctly, there was a short-lived rebellion in the US at the end of the 18th century by libertarians who tried to establish a “Land of the Free” on a small piece of the country. However, all traces of this reference have been scrubbed by the search engines.


17 posted on 01/24/2011 12:13:08 PM PST by pabianice
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To: pabianice

As Walter Williams said,

we won the first war of independence,
and lost the second one.

Now, if the left doesn’t allow a peaceful separation,
we’ll have to have a tie breaker.


18 posted on 01/24/2011 12:14:21 PM PST by MrB (The difference between a (de)humanist and a Satanist is that the latter knows who he's working for.)
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To: SeeSharp

Yep, when it’s a law that the feds don’t WANT to enforce, and some locality refuses to enforce it,
it doesn’t cause any problems.

Like restrictions on partial birth abortion, for example...

But, as you said, if it’s a policy they insist on enforcing, like socialism or gun control, they’ll go all in.


19 posted on 01/24/2011 12:16:30 PM PST by MrB (The difference between a (de)humanist and a Satanist is that the latter knows who he's working for.)
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To: GonzoGOP

Where will they send the troops? To DOCTORS offices. Hospitals.

WHERE?


20 posted on 01/24/2011 12:20:14 PM PST by Marty62 (Marty 60)
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To: ICCtheWay

“If large cities and states can refuse to enforce Federal Immigration laws - totally refuse to turn over suspected illegal aliens, then a state can refuse to abide by or enforce any Federal law.”

Good on you!!

Use the Sanctuary law baloney against them. Why NOT?????

I like how you think.


21 posted on 01/24/2011 12:21:27 PM PST by TruthConquers (Delendae sunt publicae scholae)
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To: GonzoGOP

If the states all of a sudden with hold all the tax revenue they collect for the feds that would get the leviathans attention asap.


22 posted on 01/24/2011 12:23:01 PM PST by sarge83
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To: sarge83

Actually, that would be an excellent place to start.

The FED is an illegal monstrosity anyway.

End the FED along with ending DeathCare.


23 posted on 01/24/2011 12:27:17 PM PST by TruthConquers (Delendae sunt publicae scholae)
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To: RepublicnotaDemocracy

Don’t stop with obamacare. The states should take back the control of lands and resources within their boundaries, reopen drilling and coal mining and tell the federal government to pound sand.


24 posted on 01/24/2011 12:29:12 PM PST by RJS1950 (The democrats are the "enemies foreign and domestic" cited in the federal oath)
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To: RepublicnotaDemocracy

What’s the big deal with States ignoring federal law? Isn’t that essentially what sanctuary cities are? Why is it that they can do such a thing with impunity?


25 posted on 01/24/2011 12:30:00 PM PST by Personal Responsibility (The more the plans fail the more the planners plan - Ronald Reagan)
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To: SeeSharp

You’re probably correct... but it does make for precedent in a Federal Court of Law. Selective enforcement of one Federal law does not bode well for complaining in court about a state refusing to comply with obamacare - another Federal law.


26 posted on 01/24/2011 12:32:28 PM PST by ICCtheWay
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To: Marty62

This is not some third world country where the “troops” are bought and paid for. They would find that they don’t have very many troops to send in. Our military does not swear allegiance to the president nor or they obligated to follow unconstitutional orders.


27 posted on 01/24/2011 12:33:24 PM PST by RJS1950 (The democrats are the "enemies foreign and domestic" cited in the federal oath)
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To: ICCtheWay

Leftists and leftist judges would have no problem with the inconsistency you point out.

Their entire ideology is based on the idea that the elite are entitled to use their “discretion” with regard to rules and laws.


28 posted on 01/24/2011 12:36:14 PM PST by MrB (The difference between a (de)humanist and a Satanist is that the latter knows who he's working for.)
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To: Christian Engineer Mass; RepublicnotaDemocracy

Geeze RepublicnotaDemocracy:

You gonna take that from a nOOb? LOL


29 posted on 01/24/2011 12:36:14 PM PST by Vendome (Don't take life so seriously..... You won't live through it anyway.)
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To: RepublicnotaDemocracy

I don’t see ANYTHING changing until, we the people, get of our arses, grab our guns, camp out in the front yard of every congressman,senator and bureaucrat involved with ObamaCare along with all the other federal BS and let them know we mean business.

Enough of the lawyers filing suits for more lawyers to analyze.

Enough of trusting elected state officials to suddenly grow a set and resist the federal government.

Enough of the media dictating public opinion.

We, as individuals, in America are on our own,with little help from either party.

I’m not advocating violence nor do I need Sarah Palin or Talk radio to influence me but it’s high time we taxpayers sent a very strong message.


30 posted on 01/24/2011 12:36:30 PM PST by Le Chien Rouge
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To: ICCtheWay

It’s not just selective enforcement of immigration laws. Selective exclusion of individual entities from obamacare while forcing everyone else to comply under threat of prosecution is the same principle.


31 posted on 01/24/2011 12:36:36 PM PST by RJS1950 (The democrats are the "enemies foreign and domestic" cited in the federal oath)
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To: RepublicnotaDemocracy

Many of these states just don’t want the financial burdens imposed on them by the Federal takeover of health care. For many states it’s the money, they don’t mind Obama/Democrats on other matters

Sure would be lovely to see Obama get his comeuppance with a major modification or outright repeal. Repeal would need a new President post 2012


32 posted on 01/24/2011 12:38:19 PM PST by dennisw (- - - -He who does not economize will have to agonize - - - - - Confucius)
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To: Marty62
Where will they send the troops? To DOCTORS offices. Hospitals.

In a word, yes. Ike had no problem sending the 101st Airborne into schools. And Washington marched the militia into the farms of Pennsylvania. When the local police refused to enforce desegregation at Old Miss Kennedy sent in the US Marshals. And when the locals shot at the Marshals he sent in 3,000 troops in full battle rattle to demonstrate just how serious he was. The troops took over local law enforcement and ended the riots.

If the local law enforcement refuses to uphold Obama's laws he might try to simply take over the local police stations and use troops to enforce the laws. It has happened before, it could very likely happen again.

Nullification is like standing up to a school yard bully and saying "What are you going to do about it?". If the government backs down, they lose all their power. Once it becomes obvious that the locals can defy the government and get away with it, Fedzilla will be completely neutered. And not just on health care, but on immigration, EPA, taxation, licensing, or anything else you want to name. That is why governments have traditionally reacted (or in many cases over reacted) to the threat of nullification.

It has been said that when backed by conviction, the most powerful three words in the English language are "No I Won't" But when you refuse to give the bully your lunch money you had better be ready for a fight. Because the bully knows that if one kid publicly stands up to him and gets away with it soon all of the kids will. And his days of being a bully are numbered.
33 posted on 01/24/2011 12:40:45 PM PST by GonzoGOP (There are millions of paranoid people in the world and they are all out to get me.)
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To: littleharbour
The states would have a greater ability to insist on their Constitutional rights, if they managed their own affairs more responsibly.

Oh, I see, you think we should refuse to medicate, educate, and incarcerate illegals? We tried that here in California, and got shot down by a Federal judge.

It's called an "unfunded mandate" for a reason.

34 posted on 01/24/2011 12:45:46 PM PST by Carry_Okie (The environment is too complex and too important to manage by central planning.)
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To: sarge83
If the states all of a sudden with hold all the tax revenue they collect for the feds that would get the leviathans attention asap.

My point exactly. Once the precedent of nullification is established every federal agency from the IRS, EPA, DEA, ATFE and the FBI will find their power constrained by any state that disagrees with them on a given issue. Kicking a tiger in the balls will get its attention. But once you have his attention you had better have a plan for what you intend to do next. And don't be surprised if the tiger decides that the proper response to your attention getting scheme is to rip your guts out and devour what ever is left.

Obama has pushed those still loyal to the constitution to desperate acts. I used poker metaphor earlier and it fits well hear as well. Nullification is like calling when the other guy goes all in. He might be bluffing, or he might not. But one way or the other the game ends here.
35 posted on 01/24/2011 12:48:21 PM PST by GonzoGOP (There are millions of paranoid people in the world and they are all out to get me.)
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To: RepublicnotaDemocracy

Too bad it’s from WND. Can’t even be sure that any of the institutions mentioned even exist. 10th Amendment what?


36 posted on 01/24/2011 12:48:45 PM PST by DariusBane (People are like sheep and have two speeds: grazing and stampede)
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To: Carry_Okie
We tried that here in California, and got shot down by a Federal judge.

Didn't the State legal team really put out a limp-wristed effort in that case? IIRC, the whole idea that the AG and geovernor were in any way even trying to support Prop 187 was a joke from start to finish. Or am I confusing that with Prop 8, where the same thing happened?

37 posted on 01/24/2011 12:55:29 PM PST by HKMk23 (WANT DIFFERENT? VOTE DIFFERENT!)
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To: RJS1950

Yes - similar concept - Selective enforcement and selective exclusion (with no basis for the exclusion except political favoritism)... Surly a good set of lawyers could work this into a case in Federal Court.


38 posted on 01/24/2011 12:57:09 PM PST by ICCtheWay
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To: GonzoGOP

You mention SPECIFIC locations. To end segragation.

I repeat where would he send the troops?


39 posted on 01/24/2011 12:57:19 PM PST by Marty62 (Marty 60)
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To: Vendome

2006! When did you start feeling like you could call ppl noob? Last year?


40 posted on 01/24/2011 1:01:32 PM PST by Christian Engineer Mass (Capitol Hill operator 866-727-4894 toll free. Just say which Representative/Senator you want to spea)
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To: ICCtheWay; All

“If large cities and states can refuse to enforce Federal Immigration laws - totally refuse to turn over suspected illegal aliens, then a state can refuse to abide by or enforce any Federal law.”

However, this is going a step beyond. Using your example above...what if a state was to arrest and try agents of the federal government that attempted to enforce the federal law? That, I think, is the point here. Not just that states won’t play along, but they will expel or prosecute anyone who attempts to do so on their territory.

I’m for a strong union. However, there have been occasions when I believe the federal government has assumed authority it didn’t rightfully have...usually it is some judge. I have always wanted to see some liberal judge making and absurd ruling against a state to be arrested by the state and excorted to the state line and told, “Don’t come back.” Realistically, I, of course, don’t actaully want this to happen because it could cut both ways and would cause anarchy. But, there is part of me that would like to see it happen.


41 posted on 01/24/2011 1:06:15 PM PST by Sola Veritas (Trying to speak truth - not always with the best grammar or spelling)
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To: Christian Engineer Mass
Is the WND take on it also Breaking News?

If it's WND, it's breaking wind. If it's Bob Unruh writing for WND, it's got chunks in it.

42 posted on 01/24/2011 1:08:15 PM PST by r9etb
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach; FrPR; enough_idiocy; meyer; Normandy; Whenifhow; TenthAmendmentChampion; ...
Thanx Ernest_at_the_Beach !

 


Beam me to Planet Gore !

43 posted on 01/24/2011 1:12:28 PM PST by steelyourfaith (ObamaCare Death Panels: a Final Solution to the looming Social Security crisis ?)
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To: SeeSharp

I talked with one of my representatives about the firearms thing (states declaring that firearms manufactured and sold within the state are not subject to federal regulations). I asked her that if the state was willing to come to the legal aid of a citizen who manufactured and sold a firearm within the state and was subsequently arrested by the feds. She could not answer.


44 posted on 01/24/2011 1:20:17 PM PST by Blood of Tyrants (Islam is the religion of Satan and Mohammed was his minion.)
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach
...Boldin told WND that the idea that states would reject a Washington demand is not radical, it's reasonable. He said what's radical is "the idea that the federal government can be the final arbiter of the extent of its own powers."...

...He (Boldin) cited President Andrew Jackson's opinion of the Supreme Court and its power: "'The Supreme Court has their opinion. Now let them come and enforce it."...

Smiling.

45 posted on 01/24/2011 1:22:03 PM PST by Miss_Meyet (A zebra does not change its spots~Al "Nature Watch" Gore)
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To: Christian Engineer Mass
2006! When did you start feeling like you could call ppl noob? Last year?

Generally, somebody who has been a member for more than a couple of years would feel entitled to call someone who has been a member for 3 months a "noob". That said, unless a post seems particularly trollish or insulting of a long-time and well-established FReeper, it seems somewhat lacking in substance to question someone just based on the sign-on date.

46 posted on 01/24/2011 1:24:37 PM PST by VRWCmember (Veritas vos Liberabit)
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To: Sola Veritas

Sooner or later resistance to the obama regime with result in a big blow up - politically - all kinds of hand wringing nationwide... lots of noise across the land... A test case will result whether it is in a court of law or in the streets.

As for me - I have been campaigning for years for a Velvet Revolution... we arouse 3-4 million people to protest peacefully in another GIANT gathering on a Sunday in D.C. - then we just do not leave... stay there for a week - sit in the streets and basically shut D.C. down - until they capitulate... No police force - no army can move 4 million people who do not want to be moved...


47 posted on 01/24/2011 1:26:47 PM PST by ICCtheWay
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To: VRWCmember; Christian Engineer Mass

Regarding your initial post with the “already posted here” comment, the thread that you linked had to do with states joining the lawsuit against the federal government which is quite a different matter from passing state laws prohibiting enforcement of the federal statute.


48 posted on 01/24/2011 1:28:06 PM PST by VRWCmember (Veritas vos Liberabit)
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To: Marty62
I repeat where would he send the troops?

As I pointed out first they will send in FBI and U.S. Marshals to take over law enforcement. During the desegregation era or prohibition before that the FBI was everywhere. The troops only went in when someone tried to shoot at the FBI or the U.S. Marshals.

I also pointed to Washington and Lincoln in my posts. Washington sent troops to every farm in Pennsylvania to collect the taxes when the state refused to do it. Lincoln flattened half the country rather than surrender Federal authority. During prohibition Harding and Coolidge sent federal agents into any house or restaurant that they thought was a speakeasy. And when the rum runners of the east coast started to shoot at the revenue cutters sent to inspect them they used US Navy destroyers to demonstrate that shooting at feds is a bad idea.

We may end up with some kid of medical Al Capone. Underground doctors who work outside the system for cash. Protected by locals who see no problem in taking a bribe to look the other way while laws they don't agree with are violated. But those bootleg hospitals will be hunted down by the Feds as certainly as the speakeasies were. But even at the worst of prohibition no state tried to use nullification. They might look the other way and ignore the law breakers, but they never went so far as open defiance. That is the difference between nullification and what the sanctuary cities are doing. The sanctuary cities are simply refusing to help, but they have never said they will arrest Federal agents who attempt to enforce the federal laws. That is the line between salutary neglect and outright rebellion.

That is not saying that we don't need a rebellion. As out founding fathers said from time to time they are a necessity. But we should not go into it thinking that it will be a picnic. And the best way to lose a fight is to assume at the beginning that the other guy won't fight back.
49 posted on 01/24/2011 1:28:41 PM PST by GonzoGOP (There are millions of paranoid people in the world and they are all out to get me.)
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To: HKMk23
Didn't the State legal team really put out a limp-wristed effort in that case?

Yes and no. Wilson's people pursued it. Once Gray Davis was elected governor, he refused to pursue it and resisted any attempt to force him to enforce State law.

Or am I confusing that with Prop 8, where the same thing happened?

No, you are correct. A gerrymandered State legislature was disinclined to enforce the clear will of the people.

50 posted on 01/24/2011 1:29:49 PM PST by Carry_Okie (The environment is too complex and too important to manage by central planning.)
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