Posted on 02/02/2011 1:29:37 PM PST by Tolerance Sucks Rocks
Attention Times Square denizens and those out for a stroll in Central Park: It will soon be time to put out your smokes — forever.
The New York City Council is slated Wednesday afternoon to approve a ban on smoking in parks, beaches, marinas, boardwalks and pedestrian plazas like Times Square. The legislation marks the most ambitious expansion of the city’s antismoking laws since Mayor Michael Bloomberg convinced the city lawmakers to approve a ban on smoking in indoor workplaces and park playgrounds in 2003.
“When this legislation is passed, all New Yorkers will be able to enjoy a walk in the park or a day at the beach without having to inhale secondhand smoke,” said Speaker Christine Quinn when she and the mayor unveiled the proposed legislation in September. ”This bill will save lives and make New York City a healthier place to live.”
Studies have shown that outdoor tobacco smoke levels can be as high as secondhand smoke levels indoors and there is no risk-free level of exposure to secondhand smoke, Quinn and officials in the mayor’s health department have argued. But opponents of the legislation have accused the mayor and the council of infringing on their rights and have disputed the level of risk associated with secondhand smoke.
City Councilman Peter Vallone Jr. proposed compromise legislation that would carve out areas of parks and beaches where people could smoke. But his legislation appeared unlikely to win the day.
“It still has a lot of support,” Vallone said. “I’m disappointed leadership chose to move the original bill and not my compromise.”
(Excerpt) Read more at blogs.wsj.com ...
Follow the money? Do you really want to go there?
NO, I absolutely do not want someone denying me from participating in the sports and activities that may shorten my life. But then again I am willing to accept the personal responsibility that goes with those choices.
For example, if I get stranded on a hillside in Alaska, I don’t expect the local taxpayer to have to foot the bill for my rescue. If you want to ski in an avalanche area more power to you, but why should the locals have to foot the bill for finding you and the other unfortunate bystanders you wipe out because you are irresponsible.
Freedom is not free nor is personal responsibility. I do not want to pay for your bad habits and their consequences. But more power to you if you are willing to accept the outcome of your behavior.
And since you have already all but admitted that smokers pay more into the health care system than they take out of it, what’s your beef?
Being an Ex New Yorker living in Nevada now.. I remember a time where TRUE New Yorkers would have told Bloomberg where to stick it, and flat out ignore his “law”
Now New yorkers are afraid of everything.
My beef is watching people, like my father, die a miserable death while suffering greatly - on a daily basis, all due to tobacco.
And by the by, the only thing you have given me so far is anecdotal.
The mask and false pretense of protecting non smokers from passive smoking is off. They are not even pretending any more.
This is a gubmint social engineering experiment to denormalize smoking and coerce smokers to quit by making their life miserable.
They don’t need a “public health” argument. For example, you can’t walk down the street with an open beer or with assless chaps with your penis hanging out (unless you are in San Fran) But yet it’s the law.
It’s a lib attempt to change cultural norms.
Thanks for the ping!
So you wish to deny smokers any health insurance, whatsoever, due to your father dying from a smoking-related illness?
I am fine with higher insurance rates for smokers, and no taxpayer assistance, but I certainly wouldn’t want to deny them health insurance, period.
When New York City touted their first non-smoking establishment, breathing the air there was the equivalent of two packs a day.
At least until they cook the numbers, smokers will have the satisfaction of the people there still having all the problems they did before, with no cigarettes to blame it on.
So what are they going to do then? Blame upwind smokers upstate?
LOL! I live in North Dakota. The air in Central Park is a carbon monoxide fix!
If you use tobacco in any form (including 'smokeless tobacco), you pay more for auto, fire, homeowners, life, and health insurance. Of course, you run the risk of keeling over dead (as does everyone else) from that first coronary.
As 'tobacco users' also pay taxes and higher prices for the 'tobacco settlement' which was supposed to offset those state-borne health care costs (but went for golf courses and just about anything BUT health care costs), I'm not sure where you get off bitching that smokers don't pay their way.
Not to mention the idea that smokers die sooner which means they will collect less in Social Security, Medicare, etc. over the long haul.
But it's still a free country, at least until someone makes the connection between pissing and moaning and the 'public' cost of something.
I cannot think of a better way to give organized crime a shot in the arm. This could be even bigger than street drugs. Just imagine if the Mexican narcos started running cigarettes instead of drugs?
Now, if you believe that any governmental entity is going to ban tobacco, then you've been living on another planet. Governments (city, state, and national) are as addicted to the taxes levied on tobacco products more than a crystal methamphetamine user. Governments will NOT give up their tax fix. They will bloviate about the smell and the health hazards and (blah, blah, blah), but the fact is they're hooked on the $$$$$.
What really ticks me off is this irrational war on smokers and their dehumanization. This is how irrational it is — NYC wants to ban e-cigarettes — because the LOOK like cigarettes and people are offended! So, it isn't that the e-cig doesn't smell or give off smoke, it's because it looks like a cigarette. Doesn't that sound somewhat irrational? It sure does to me.
Back when I worked in New York City my favorite part of the day was in the morning right before work, when I’d walk into Central Park and light up a morning cigar. There was something peaceful and meditative about the act that would brighten up the rest of my day.
I’ve never been one for cigarettes. They’re nasty little buggers due to the dangers of inhalation and, although the smell has never bothered me, I can understand why people dislike the stench of the burning paper. With that said, I support the right of cigarette smokers to light up — there is something very wrong with a society that bans previously acceptable behavior simply because it “annoys” part of the population.
Still, I think it’s a shame that cigarettes get lumped in with more civilized forms of smoking such as pipes and cigars. I’m thinking that once these laws go into effect we’re going to need a giant “Smoke Out in the Park” to protest this progressive prohibitionist nonsense. I bet we could get a good turn out from people from all sides of the political spectrum to protest this overbearing law.
Even the Communist Chinese are allowed to smoke out in public. Why do progressives RINOs like Bloomberg want to restrict the behavior of Americans even more than what is applied to people in China?
“... As long as they deny them medical insurance...”
Who is “they?”
Shall they also deny insurance to those who are overweight? Who eat too many eggs? Who don’t exercise enough?
Who gets to define what is overweight? How many eggs are too many? How much exercise is enough?
You have obviously thought this issue through and feel strongly about it, so I’m sure you can clear these things up for me.
I don’t recommend or like the British commie medical system, but in merry old England you are denied heart surgery until you are smoke free for several months. They ration care to those who might actually benefit from the large outlay of money.
Since smoking contributes to so many diseases, even if the heart surgery works, the increased kidney, lung and other metabolic diseases will shorten the smokers life so why waste the effort if the patient is unwilling to participate in their own health care.
When I say smoking, every body assumes you are jumping on tobacco. It doesn’t matter if you are smoking oak leaves or huffing on your cars tail pipe. It is really the carbon monoxide poisoning that is the bad actor. CO binds up the hemoglobin so your body is deprived of oxygen. So your heart has to beat more to send what little O2 bearing hemoglobin around in constricted vessels which equals hypertension. Hypertension is very hard on your kidneys and eyes.
There are two ways to get a big radiation dose. One is to get a big burst all at once. The other is to put a small pellet in an area for a long time and after awhile the area has been exposed to a big dose. There is a lot of uranium in the soil in very minute quantities. There is also a lot in coal dust. All plants will pick up the uranium. If you eat it, it passes in a few hours so not much exposure to the gamma rays. If you inhale it and it sticks in your lung, then it may take several years before you move it back up to where it you hock it up. In the mean time you get a big radiation exposure which = cancer.
Why do people smoke tobacco? Nicotine. You put nicotine in oak leaves and people would smoke trees. Take nicotine out of tobacco and nobody would want it. Nicotine is one of the most addictive substances known to man. Nicotine in and of itself is not so bad. It is all the crap transported with the nicotine that does the harm.
Want people to stop smoking? Pay the farmer to produce tobacco with less nicotine. Over time people will lose their dependence on tobacco. However, the government will never lose its dependence on the tax revenues they get from tobacco. The science is straight forward. Dealing with the government and individual addictions are not.
“there is no risk-free level of exposure to secondhand smoke”
In that case I hope that they include BBQ grills, candles and brun barrels.
“I don’t really care if people smoke tobacco, alfalfa or huff on a tail pipe for 10 minutes every hour or so, you get the same amount of carbon monoxide.”
This statement tells me you are a fool.
“As long as they deny them medical insurance then I am fine with it as long as they don’t smoke near me.”
This statement tells me you are a supporter of Obamacare.
“64% of our heart surgery patients smoke vs 21% of the population. We have had about a 50% drop in heart procedures in the past 2 decades which coincides almost perfectly with the drop in smokers from 42% to 21%.”
This statement tells me you are flat out liar.
“So if you smoke, fine, I just don’t want to personally pay higher premiums..”
This statement tells me you are a collectivist.
When I look at your overall post, I have to wonder why you are even on FR.
“The figures are from a presentation I am making..”
In other words, you have a financial interest in lying. Gotcha.
“that would be arithmetic.”
Ah, so you not only are a paid liar, you also are an elitist. Gotcha.
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