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Birtherism: Worst. Trap. Ever.
Washington comPost ^ | February 19, 2011 | Adam Serwer

Posted on 02/19/2011 7:18:52 AM PST by Zakeet

For the past couple of weeks, I've been writing about Republican politicians' birther problem.

Whether or not the issue is one of mere symbolic belief or genuine agreement among large segments of the Republican base, GOP leaders feel obligated to mollify those among their base who believe the outlandish conspiracy theory that president wasn't born in the United States or that he's secretly a Muslim. But now former President George W. Bush adviser Karl Rove has come up with a new conspiracy theory that is less dumb than the original one, but not by much. According to Rove, the White House wants Republicans to continue raising doubts about Obama's citizenship in order to make the GOP look kooky:

[Snip]

The problem, of course, is that at least one recent poll showed that a majority of Republicans have doubts about the president's citizenship, which explains the rise of "post-birtherism." Republican leaders don't want to anger a large section of their base by flatly calling this stuff what it is, which is nuts. So the new approach is to joke about it or to carefully avoid denouncing the idea completely.

[Snip]

The idea that the issue is a "trap" is belied by the ease with which Republican leaders could shut the entire matter down. All they have to do is say it's silly.

(Excerpt) Read more at voices.washingtonpost.com ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Editorial; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: birthcertificate; birther; certifigate; jimmyqaeda2; naturalborncitizen; obama
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To: null and void
I see. A debate isn’t the same thing as a hearing.

A Senate resolution is not the same thing as a Congressional hearing. They're actually two very different things.

51 posted on 02/19/2011 8:16:07 AM PST by Kleon
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To: altura
That boat is never going to float.

well, let's just say it looks as if it is not going to float fast enough to do anything about Obama before 2012.

There are two more years of Obama and we need to concentrate on getting a good, conservative candidate and uniting behind her (or him).

Amen. And there are Democrat fingerprints all over the hype that keeps the "Anti-Birther" thing going at fever pitch. It's a deception and a distraction.

52 posted on 02/19/2011 8:17:34 AM PST by Kenny Bunk (With a friend like Obama, a country needs no enemies.)
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To: Kleon

Yep. The resolution is the result of a debate or hearing.

You parse like a clinton.


53 posted on 02/19/2011 8:18:32 AM PST by null and void (We are now in day 760 of our national holiday from reality. - It's almost 3 AM)
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To: Zakeet

Yeah — kooky ole GOP and the ‘birther’ issue.

And kooky ole prez to allow Lt.Col Lakin to rot in prison, because the ‘birther thing is a non-issue.


54 posted on 02/19/2011 8:18:39 AM PST by Exit148
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To: Kleon

Republicans should be scared of rockin the boat...


55 posted on 02/19/2011 8:19:44 AM PST by Tempest (I put money ahead of people)
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To: null and void
Yep. The resolution is the result of a debate or hearing.

No, it's the result of a Senator or Senators proposing it. They're often just symbolic.

56 posted on 02/19/2011 8:21:17 AM PST by Kleon
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To: Kleon
Did you happen to read the title of the article I linked?

U.S. Senate ends McCain citizenship debate

Please explain how they ended a debate that didn't exist.

57 posted on 02/19/2011 8:24:21 AM PST by null and void (We are now in day 760 of our national holiday from reality. - It's almost 3 AM)
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To: nwrep
It seems to me that if states begin the process of requiring proof of citizenship in order to get one’s name on a ballot, then it will be indeed quite likely that this sort of question will never again come up.

But today, this issue is not going away. The ancient 20th century media is in a disreputable condition and dissension is on the rise. The Internet is making a big difference as we all know.

The fact that Obama has little or no documentation concerning his background is a serous deal.

Where are my FOIA concerns being addressed here?

I can spy on my neighbors 24/7 by 365 yet I cannot ascertain where my President has been for nigh on 50 years?

58 posted on 02/19/2011 8:24:59 AM PST by Radix ("..Democrats are holding a meeting today to decide whether to overturn the results of the election.")
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To: null and void; Kleon; Spaulding
There were no hearings to determine Sen. McCain's eligibility.

Informative reply on topic...
Remember, trolls aren't offended by being proved wrong. Their goal is to confuse as many as they can.

Courtesy ping, Spaulding.

59 posted on 02/19/2011 8:25:18 AM PST by philman_36 (Pride breakfasted with plenty, dined with poverty, and supped with infamy. Benjamin Franklin)
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To: null and void
Please explain how they ended a debate that didn't exist.

The debate refers to the questions raised by the Press, not within Congress. That's why it passed unanimously. Like, duh.

60 posted on 02/19/2011 8:27:27 AM PST by Kleon
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To: null and void
U.S. Senate ends McCain citizenship debate

Passing (or failing to pass) a sense of the Senate resolution is just a political stunt. It provides no controlling legal authority. In this case, it's as if they passed a sense of the Senate that two plus two is four.

The fact is, both McCain and Obama are eligible, since both are citizens by birth, which is what NBC means.

And even if Obama were shown not have been a citizen at birth, we'd still need 67 senators to do anything about it. But if we had 67 senators, bowing to the King of Saudi Arabia would be excuse enough to remove him. No need to sort out the circumstances of his birth or get into NBC esoterica.

61 posted on 02/19/2011 8:28:19 AM PST by cynwoody
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To: Zakeet; All

If the GOP does not get serious about Obama’s Eligibility....they will lose everything in 2012 that they gained in 2010. A small percentage of Birthers not voting in 2012, or voting independent/third party...and 2012 is over for the GOP

By attacking Birthers, the GOP and GOP Media just demonstrates that they are nothing more than Liberal RINOs who pander to what the Liberal Media and the Democrats think.

So many Americans have questions about Obama’s Eligibility....by dismissing those people as “nutcases” is not the way to get votes.

If you are not an Obama Birther....you will be an Obama Enabler


62 posted on 02/19/2011 8:31:16 AM PST by UCFRoadWarrior (Newt Gingrich and Chris Matthews: Seperated at Birth??)
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To: UCFRoadWarrior
If you are not an Obama Birther....you will be an Obama Enabler

I'll be neither, because I won't be voting for him.

63 posted on 02/19/2011 8:32:40 AM PST by Kleon
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To: Anti-Bubba182
"We need the leaders of our party to say, 'Look, stop falling into the trap of the White House and focus on the real issues,'" he said. Spending time and energy on -- and getting media attention for -- comments about where the president was born is a distraction that discredits the lawmakers and candidates making the remarks, he said.

 
 
Focus on the real issues, huh? We've been playing this game for over two years now. Nothings changed. And unless and untill we focus on the birther issue - nothing will change.
 
Except that Obama wins re-election in '12.


64 posted on 02/19/2011 8:32:51 AM PST by Responsibility2nd (Yes, as a matter of fact, what you do in your bedroom IS my business.)
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To: null and void
The article reads as if it were up to the Congress to determine if McCain is “natural born.” Well if they want to Amend the Constitution then it might be, but meanwhile, they do not get to determine his status.

The fact is....McCain is “natural born” and Obama is not.

65 posted on 02/19/2011 8:34:50 AM PST by Radix ("..Democrats are holding a meeting today to decide whether to overturn the results of the election.")
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To: y6162

The ComPost cannot explain why O’Kenyan has a Connecticut Social Security number....but can attack, at will.

Liberals want war, they could get it, very, very soon.


66 posted on 02/19/2011 8:35:34 AM PST by wac3rd (Somewhere in Hell, Ted Kennedy snickers....)
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To: Zakeet
I want any and all when asked by the state sanctioned MSM about obama's citizenship to turn it around on them and ask them what they know, have they learned something new and why are they asking about it.

Answer every question they ask with questions that make the MSM explain what a NBC is, what dual citizenship is, why anyone should care about obama's citizenship, lack of paperwork and history, etc.

Make them do their job by asking questions they don't have answers to. Make them do their research. Others, like Cashill, have done that research and what they have learned is coming out. Make the MSM explain how others have done the job that American MSM just won't do. Easy pickings.

67 posted on 02/19/2011 8:36:11 AM PST by GBA (Not on our watch!)
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To: Radix

McCain was not born on US soil.


68 posted on 02/19/2011 8:37:21 AM PST by null and void (We are now in day 760 of our national holiday from reality. - It's almost 3 AM)
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To: null and void
McCain was not born on US soil.

He was born a U.S. citizen. that's all that matters.

69 posted on 02/19/2011 8:38:56 AM PST by Kleon
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To: All; Zakeet
I've been saying for some time the 'Birther' movement is kept alive by Obama himself to political advantage. It's his version of Hilary's Vast Right-Wing Conspiracy and used for political cover and to stifle debate.

Everyone concerned should stop being Obama's patsy, think smartly, and focus on requiring candidates to provide specific documentation at the state level to prove constitutional eligibility.

Republican politicians should steer well clear of this trap and focus on the jobs they were elected to do.

70 posted on 02/19/2011 8:38:56 AM PST by newzjunkey
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To: Zakeet
Per the usual crap the writer didn't even do enough research to even know what the real issues are.
71 posted on 02/19/2011 8:40:31 AM PST by mad_as_he$$ ( "Hokahey, today is a good day to die!" Crazy Horse, Lakota Sioux)
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To: Dutch Boy
I do not care what they write as long as it keeps the story in the forefront of daily news.
72 posted on 02/19/2011 8:42:11 AM PST by mad_as_he$$ ( "Hokahey, today is a good day to die!" Crazy Horse, Lakota Sioux)
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To: Christian Engineer Mass

“I will stand with the muslims should the political winds shift in an ugly direction”

HOLY CRAP - did he really say that?


73 posted on 02/19/2011 8:42:59 AM PST by Mr. K (Brawndo's got what plants crave. It's got Electrolytes.)
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To: philman_36
Here is the pointer to McCaskill’s bill, with Obama as co-sponsor, trying to assert that foreign born children of military citizens are eligible for the presidency. Had it passed it would have violated the Constitution.

Had it passed, it would have been silly and irrelevant. That's because military brats, like other children born to Americans abroad, are natural born citizens. Although Bitch Napolitano, of Homeland Security, might prefer to exclude at least the military ones.

74 posted on 02/19/2011 8:45:56 AM PST by cynwoody
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To: eCSMaster

If anyone believes it is possible that Obambi likes this issue because it makes us look like kooks... Then all they have to do is prove he is a citizen and we are done for-

Why havent they?


75 posted on 02/19/2011 8:46:09 AM PST by Mr. K (Brawndo's got what plants crave. It's got Electrolytes.)
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To: altura
You go ahead and do that. I want him out before then. We cannot take two more years of the jackass.
76 posted on 02/19/2011 8:46:33 AM PST by mad_as_he$$ ( "Hokahey, today is a good day to die!" Crazy Horse, Lakota Sioux)
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To: libertarian27
A resolution hasn't the force of law.

E.G., "Be it resolved that Monday, March 31 shall be recognized as National Dill Pickle Day"

That's a congressional resolution. Obama VOTED FOR the McCain Resolution and I have a hunch that the inept old jet jockey* would return the favor, if the opportunity arose.

One of the worst naval pilots ever seen. Ever. Guy got lost over the Chesapeake. Destroyed enough US planes to become an ace .

77 posted on 02/19/2011 8:48:52 AM PST by Kenny Bunk (With a friend like Obama, a country needs no enemies.)
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To: Kleon

Nope. To be a President, to hold that one singular office, the Founding Fathers had a higher standard than merely being a citizen.

To be the President one has to have no ties to another country, either by blood or by birth place.

Imagine, if you will, that McCain was elected. What would be his appropriate action if like Honduras, the local president tried to suspend the Panamanian constitution and become dictator for life?

Anything he does or doesn’t do would be seen as being influenced by his Panamanian birth.

This is why the Founding Fathers used that singular term ‘Natural Born Citizen’ for that office and nowhere else. They followed Vattel and Blackstone’s definitions: A child born of citizen parents, on the country’s soil.


78 posted on 02/19/2011 8:49:31 AM PST by null and void (We are now in day 760 of our national holiday from reality. - It's almost 3 AM)
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To: newzjunkey

Everyone concerned should stop being Obama’s patsy, think smartly, and focus on requiring candidates to provide specific documentation at the state level to prove constitutional eligibility.

Republican politicians should steer well clear of this trap and focus on the jobs they were elected to do.


This is the MSNBC-Liberal Media spin. Obama’s Eligibility is an issue....and if the GOP kowtows to the Liberal Media on this....the GOP can kiss 2012 good bye.

Why should I waste my conservative vote on someone who lowtows to the Liberal Media...by refusing to make Obama’s Eligibility an issue?


79 posted on 02/19/2011 8:51:03 AM PST by UCFRoadWarrior (Newt Gingrich and Chris Matthews: Seperated at Birth??)
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To: T-Bird45

Could Grandma’s DNA shed any light on this?


80 posted on 02/19/2011 8:52:27 AM PST by sanjuanbob
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To: Mr. K
HOLY CRAP - did he really say that?

The exact quote is:

“I will stand with them should the political winds shift in an ugly direction”

In context "them" is "the muslims", but our parsing friends will claim that he didn't actually say the original quote.

Use the truth to tell a lie...

81 posted on 02/19/2011 8:53:25 AM PST by null and void (We are now in day 760 of our national holiday from reality. - It's almost 3 AM)
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To: Zakeet
This is a toughie. Obama's Kenyan Grandmother says she was in the delivery room in Kenya when Obama was born but Hawaii Governor Neil Abercrombie says he was also in the delivery room when Obama was born in Honolulu.

Who to believe?

What can settle this seeming contradiction?

82 posted on 02/19/2011 8:54:49 AM PST by Texas Eagle (If it wasn't for double-standards, Liberals would have no standards at all -- Texas Eagle)
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To: Mr. K

If anyone believes it is possible that Obambi likes this issue because it makes us look like kooks... Then all they have to do is prove he is a citizen and we are done for-

Why havent they?


Because they cannot prove Obama is natural-born

Unfortunately, the Liberal Media knows that there are enough Liberal RINOs....all they have to do is call some conservatives “kooks”....and the Liberal RINO GOP run away.

The Liberal Media has figured out the real kooks in the Obama Birther issue are the Liberal RINO GOP who attack the Birthers. Libs and Dems have their enemy doing the work for them


83 posted on 02/19/2011 8:55:04 AM PST by UCFRoadWarrior (Newt Gingrich and Chris Matthews: Seperated at Birth??)
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To: traderrob6
“It is silly.”

Maybe, but please explain why he’s spent over a million dollars to prevent his long form BC from being produced.

Do you think he has spent his own money doing this?

84 posted on 02/19/2011 8:56:13 AM PST by Graybeard58 (Of course Obama loves his country. The thing is, Sarah loves mine.)
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To: cynwoody
Had it passed, it would have been silly and irrelevant. That's because military brats, like other children born to Americans abroad, are natural born citizens.

Oddly enough that is exactly opposite to what I was taught as a wee lad matriculating on a US Marine Corps base.

We were told explicitly that those of us born overseas could not qualify to be president.

FWIW, I didn't think it was fair then, I don't think its fair now, but I do think (based on a LOT of research in the past few years) that it is the Founding Fathers' intent.

The President has to have no hint of divided loyalties.

85 posted on 02/19/2011 9:00:37 AM PST by null and void (We are now in day 760 of our national holiday from reality. - It's almost 3 AM)
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To: arderkrag
Putting periods behind every word: Worst online trend ever.

not as bad as another "trend", i'm starting to see.

shades of c.c. cummings.

STILL NOT AS BAD AS THIS THOUGH.

86 posted on 02/19/2011 9:03:57 AM PST by Graybeard58 (Of course Obama loves his country. The thing is, Sarah loves mine.)
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To: Zakeet
... the outlandish conspiracy theory that president wasn't born in the United States ...

Perhaps the author, Adam Serwer, is smarter than he appears. Perhaps he has proof that Obama was born an American. Perhaps he also knows if Obama attended Occidental College as a foreign student. Perhaps he knows which country's passport got Obama into Pakistan in his younger years. Perhaps he knows how Obama got a Connecticut Social Security Number without ever having lived there.

87 posted on 02/19/2011 9:05:40 AM PST by JoeGar
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To: Christian Engineer Mass

‘The only people who don’t want to disclose the truth are people with something to hide’

Barack Hussein Obama II


88 posted on 02/19/2011 9:07:01 AM PST by Hotlanta Mike (TeaNami)
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To: cynwoody; Spaulding
Not meaning to be obtuse, but I didn't make that statement. Perhaps you should direct your comment to the person that did.
89 posted on 02/19/2011 9:10:57 AM PST by philman_36 (Pride breakfasted with plenty, dined with poverty, and supped with infamy. Benjamin Franklin)
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To: Zakeet

“Republican leaders don’t want to anger a large section of their base by flatly calling this stuff what it is, which is nuts.”

Right. And the US Constitution is equally ‘nuts.’ Adam Serwer is a moron. And oh Adam, don’t try running in the future without a proper BC. Won’t be so easy next time - moron. Not sure if this issue will impact bammy in ‘12, but it will impact the future to be sure.

“You can fool some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you can not fool all of the people all of the time.”

President Abraham Lincoln

Long live the United States, and long live the US Constitution and the rule of law.


90 posted on 02/19/2011 9:14:01 AM PST by SeattleBruce (Tea Party like it's 1773! Repeal the Federal Reserve Act! Pray 2 Chronicles 7:14!)
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To: Texas Eagle
This is a toughie. Obama's Kenyan Grandmother says she was in the delivery room in Kenya when Obama was born but Hawaii Governor Neil Abercrombie says he was also in the delivery room when Obama was born in Honolulu.

Who to believe?

Actually, all Abercrombie said was that he ( Abercombie) was in Hawaii when Obama was born. He never said where Obama was. More interestingly, he said his earliest memory of Obama was when he was 5 or 6 :

Evans said that he asked Abercrombie what his first memory was of Barack Obama as a child and that Abercrombie told him he recalled seeing Obama playing in the T-Ball league when he was 5 or 6 years old.

“What about before that,” asked Evans, to which Abercrombie responded, ” I don’t really remember much before that,” a retort described by Evans as “very odd”. Evans said that Abercrombie was shocked when he failed to find the birth certificate, having steadfastly believed that Obama was born and raised in Hawaii.

91 posted on 02/19/2011 9:19:31 AM PST by TheCipher
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To: nwrep
There are rules. True, but some are enforceable, some are not. This one is not enforceable. 0 was already elected President despite these doubts and rumors. So what makes you think you can magically make him ineligible?

This is the absolute point of fact that Birthers can't seem to wrap their heads around. So long as their is a sliver of margin of doubt, this issue has no chance of bringing down a sitting President. There is no birth-eligibility scenario in 2011 America that ends with Obama being unseated, unless he resigns. Period. It's a sensitive problem, but so long as the Obami keep their story straight, they're safe.

Additionally, like it or not, there's a racist undertone to the Birther argument. If Arnold Schwarzenegger had run for president under similar terms, and people called him 'the Austrian Usurper', it still wouldn't be the same. Decry it all you like. That's politics. Obama has darker skin than your average American president. Calling him "the Kenyan" or trying to prove he's not a real American appears racist to the average American Idol watching citizen.

Fair or not, Obama is where he is because of popular support. Focusing on his incompetence will make him unpopular. Americans hate nothing more than people who suck at their jobs. Focusing on his eligibility will make him sympathetic. Americans aren't interested in eliminating beloved people on technicalities.

Obama knows this. He got into office because of the deep seated guilt that many Americans feel over race. If you keep that fire alive, he'll win again. If you let that fire die down, and people look at him objectively, he'll lose.

92 posted on 02/19/2011 9:22:10 AM PST by Steel Wolf ("There are moderate Muslims, but Islam itself is not moderate." - Ibn Warraq)
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To: Zakeet

Read Cashill’s book. There is no doubt that Bill Ayers wrote “Dreams”. Obama’s whole story is a lie!


93 posted on 02/19/2011 9:26:49 AM PST by nolongerademocrat ("Before you ask G-d for something, first thank G-d for what you already have." B'rachot 30b)
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To: Dutch Boy
I have been pretty much an agnostic on the birth issue as I believe that the courts will never rule on it and risk a huge constitutional crisis. They just won't do it.

As for his "religion," he didn't reference "my muslim faith" to George Stephanopolous on national television because he is a Christian.

94 posted on 02/19/2011 9:26:54 AM PST by hinckley buzzard
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To: Steel Wolf

A good post and good logic, but don’t you want to know the truth? I prefer to be known as a truther instead of a birther.


95 posted on 02/19/2011 9:30:56 AM PST by sanjuanbob
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To: T-Bird45

Agree with you that location of Obama’s birth is the least important fact with respect to his qualification for the presidency and public opinion that he is qualified.

Other more important issues are:
1) His self-identification as a foreign student during his attendance at college & grad school.
2) His race, as documented on the birth certificate and thereby validated by his mother.
3) His paternity — Was B. Obama, Sr. and the so-called marriage with Stanley Ann Durham just a cover... and someone else the father. Thereby invalidating Obama’s autobiographical writings?
4) His return from Indonesia to Hawaii as a child. Under what passport/nationality did he travel?


96 posted on 02/19/2011 9:33:48 AM PST by mason-dixon (As Mason said to Dixon, you have to draw the line somewhere.)
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To: Christian Engineer Mass

How low can he go? The expressions on the faces of the others and the focus of their eyes suggests to me that he was not just bowing, I think he kissed his hand.


97 posted on 02/19/2011 9:47:07 AM PST by mojitojoe (In itÂ’s 1400 years of existence, Islam has 2 main accomplishments, psychotic violence and goat curr)
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To: mojitojoe

yeah he kissed the ring.


98 posted on 02/19/2011 9:50:26 AM PST by Christian Engineer Mass (25ish Cambridge, MA grad student. Any potential conservative Christian FReepmail-FRiends out there?)
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To: null and void

“First they ignore
Then they ridicule
Then they attack
Then they claim it was their idea all along...”

Like they’re trying to do with Reagan. Except there’s a point between 3 & 4:

then they attack like crazy


99 posted on 02/19/2011 9:53:34 AM PST by Christian Engineer Mass (25ish Cambridge, MA grad student. Any potential conservative Christian FReepmail-FRiends out there?)
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To: Zakeet
The whole birther movement goes away the moment the original birth documents are produced showing 0 was born in Hawaii.

It's so easy.

And yet it never happens.

Why is that?

100 posted on 02/19/2011 9:56:14 AM PST by mojito
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