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NJEA president at rally accuses Gov. Christie of trying to start a 'middle-class civil war'
www.nj.com ^

Posted on 02/25/2011 12:40:51 PM PST by Sub-Driver

NJEA president at rally accuses Gov. Christie of trying to start a 'middle-class civil war' Published: Friday, February 25, 2011, 2:30 PM Updated: Friday, February 25, 2011, 3:25 PM Matt Friedman/Statehouse Bureau

TRENTON — In front of a crowd of thousands of protestors, the president of the state’s largest teachers union accused Gov. Chris Christie of trying to foment a civil war within the middle-class.

“All of New Jersey’s middle-class is hurting, but this governor and his right-wing supporters are trying to start a middle-class civil war,” said New Jersey Education Association President Barbara Keshishian.

As she spoke, thousands of public workers filled the street in front of the Statehouse, wearing ponchos and holding umbrellas to keep as dry as possible in the pouring rain. State Police estimated the crowd at 3,100.

The rally, organized by the state AFL-CIO, was both aimed at pushing back against benefit concessions demanded by Christie, and in support of Wisconsin public unions, who are fighting Gov. Scott Walker’s attempt to roll back their collective bargaining rights.

In his budget address earlier this week, Christie said private sector workers “support the rich benefits of public employees.” He’s pushing for major givebacks from the workforce, including paying more towards their health premiums and downgrading future pension benefits.

Local union officials spoke one after another at today’s rally, each handing over checks to Wisconsin AFL-CIO Secretary-Treasurer Stephanie Bloomingdale, who told the crowd “our fight is your fight, and our fight is for the middle-class.”

The featured speaker, national AFL-CIO President Richard Trumka, compared Christie to Walker and other Republican governors, saying “they were not elected to dictate.”

(Excerpt) Read more at nj.com ...


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Front Page News; Government; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections; US: New Jersey; US: Wisconsin
KEYWORDS: aflcio; bloomingdale; changehitsthefan; christie; communism; communistunions; corruption; cwii; cwiiping; democrats; hopehitsthefan; keshishian; liberalfascism; njea; pipsqueaktrumka; progressives; rapethetaxpayer; socialistdemocrats; taxcheatparty; taxes; trumka; unioncorruption; unions; unionthugs; vampireclass; vampiregovernment; vampires; vampireunions; walker; wisconsinshowdown
Hey, how come you're not at work????????
1 posted on 02/25/2011 12:40:55 PM PST by Sub-Driver
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To: Sub-Driver

"Thank you, you sucker-taxpayers, for letting us unionize so we can keep taking your taxpayer money to pay our UNION DUES, so we can give it to our DEMOCRAT PARTY!!!. THANK YOU! THANK YOU! THANK YOU!"



2 posted on 02/25/2011 12:42:12 PM PST by LibFreeUSA (Show me what Obama brought that was new and there you will find things only radical and destructive.)
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To: LibFreeUSA
ah the Democrat party!!

The collective union (much pun intended) of the corrupt, dumb, stupid & easily swayed for the cause of SOCIALISM/COMMUNISM.

3 posted on 02/25/2011 12:45:10 PM PST by prophetic (0Bama = 1 illegal president = 32 illegal, unconstitutional & unnecessary CZARS to do his job!!)
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To: LibFreeUSA

“Unionized” government workers are like parasites on the middle class. Parasites eventually kill the host if not removed or brought under control.


4 posted on 02/25/2011 12:46:24 PM PST by Jim Robinson (Rebellion is brewing!! Impeach the corrupt Marxist bastard!!)
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To: LibFreeUSA

Fat low-skill C-students demanding that the world owes them a living because they can work a idiot proof machine on an assembly line.

And why aren’t these “saviors” of the American economy not at work?


5 posted on 02/25/2011 12:49:56 PM PST by VanDeKoik (1 million in stimulus dollars paid for this tagline!)
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To: Sub-Driver

The Teachers Unions and their thug leaders appear to need a bit more ‘education’. We’re more than happy to oblige.


6 posted on 02/25/2011 12:50:34 PM PST by JPG (As WI goes, so goes the nation. Thank you, Gov Walker.)
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To: Sub-Driver

7 posted on 02/25/2011 12:51:54 PM PST by paulycy (Islamo-Marxism is Evil.)
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To: Sub-Driver

Spring break.


8 posted on 02/25/2011 12:52:32 PM PST by goldi (')
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To: LibFreeUSA

Looters, parasites, blood suckers! If anybody is starting a class war, it’s them with their cushy protected jobs and fat-cat retirement and health insurance plans. Eff all of you!


9 posted on 02/25/2011 12:59:50 PM PST by ProtectOurFreedom
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To: Jim Robinson
-"Unionized” government workers are like parasites on the middle class. Parasites eventually kill the host if not removed or brought under control."

You're so right, Jim.

I believe the country is now going through a collective 'UP-CHUCKING' from an overdose of 'SEIU-ITIS' of so many years of these parasites leeching off the public treasury.

Walker is 'shining the light of truth' on these parasites, trying to 'exorcise' them out of the public system, and to his credit - they're frosting at the mouth, showing the entire world what they truly are....


10 posted on 02/25/2011 1:00:26 PM PST by LibFreeUSA (Show me what Obama brought that was new and there you will find things only radical and destructive.)
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To: Sub-Driver

That’s the second time I’ve heard that out of some stupid union thug today! That’s their NEW meme obviously. Threaten war and violence by claiming their opposition is “causing” it.

Well bring it on you fat moronic mouth breathing scum! Sick of you leeches and more than ready for any “civil war” you clowns seem to think it going to materialize out of thin air due to Tea Party votes.


11 posted on 02/25/2011 1:05:16 PM PST by The Toll
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To: Sub-Driver
Latest code words: "Middle Class" = "Union Thugs."

Anyone else notice that this past week?

12 posted on 02/25/2011 1:17:48 PM PST by Martin Tell (ask for the ancient paths, ask where the good way is, and walk in it)
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To: VanDeKoik
Fat low-skill C-students demanding that the world owes them a living

ou're talking about teachers, nurses, cops, firemen, as well as a host of other professionals. They do deserve to earn a living.

13 posted on 02/25/2011 1:26:39 PM PST by RC one (Change we can believe in! Yes we can! FUBO!)
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To: Sub-Driver
"“All of New Jersey’s middle-class is hurting, but this governor and his right-wing supporters are trying to start a middle-class civil war,” said New Jersey Education Association President Barbara Keshishian. "

Dear Barb; I'm about up to here with unions spewing "middle class" at me.

Simply put union workers are not the middle class!

Union workers are usually highly paid (ready?) workers, sometimes they are (sadly) government workers, and most often they have little or no say about their individual contract with their employers.

They are made to pay dues and usually must join a union because misguided policy makers gave those unions special privilege in opposition to (evil) employers. They are serfs being kept happy at the expense of all the rest of us.

Those workers who are not organized to your socialist liking aren't middle class either - yet. However, they are responsible for their own fate and can aspire to it. They can learn, invest, work harder and/or seek promotion. They can even give their political donations to something other than the democrat party (imagine that).

The middle class is an amalgam of merchants, craftsmen (AFL/CIO merger aside), professionals, higher level managers and others like them. They are the people who have risked, have studied, have risen, have invested, or simply have skills beyond the norm. They do not want or need people like you handing them perks and goodies in exchange for some of those goodies in return.

The manager of the textile mill you might be qualified to work in is middle class, so are the small time grocer down the street and most doctors and (even) lawyers. Some are quite wealthy, others not so much but they are the members of society who make up the core of both capitalism and democracy. They are people who make decisions on their own and answer for the consequences when necessary. You will rarely find several hundred of them all in one place and wearing the same Tee Shirts!

You, Babs, are not. Your organized workers are not. And, the size of your recreational vehicle and number of overseas cruises you've taken during those boring summer breaks doesn't change that one iota.

14 posted on 02/25/2011 1:28:35 PM PST by norton (Sorry, I've been wanting to say that for awhile now & was about due for a rant)
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To: LibFreeUSA

The Liberals act and sound a bit cultist these days. They need to be deprogrammed.


15 posted on 02/25/2011 1:31:48 PM PST by Mozilla
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To: Sub-Driver
He’s pushing for major givebacks from the workforce, including paying more towards their health premiums and downgrading future pension benefits.

Those "major givebacks" are to middle-class taxpayers who don't have someone to dump their health premiums and pension contributions on.

16 posted on 02/25/2011 1:33:15 PM PST by windsorknot
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To: Sub-Driver; Eaker; afnamvet; AK2KX; Ancesthntr; An Old Man; APatientMan; ApesForEvolution; ...
CW2 Ping


17 posted on 02/25/2011 1:48:15 PM PST by Travis McGee (www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com)
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To: Sub-Driver
NJEA president at rally accuses Gov. Christie of trying to start a 'middle-class civil war'

Funny thing is, we won't fire the first shot. But we WILL fire the last ones. With prejudice. And without remorse.

18 posted on 02/25/2011 2:02:49 PM PST by Noumenon ("We should forgive our enemies, but not before they are hanged.")
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To: Sub-Driver
'middle class civil war'...

Who's firing the first shot? The union thugs? Or is this just more hateful rhetoric coming from the left?

19 posted on 02/25/2011 2:07:21 PM PST by nonsporting
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To: Sub-Driver

Don’t you thugs mean that if Christie does what he was elected to do you are threatening him with a violent war?

That is unacceptable.


20 posted on 02/25/2011 2:10:19 PM PST by paulycy (Islamo-Marxism is Evil.)
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To: Sub-Driver
The democrats see that the republicans have found an even more effective type of class warfare than they use, and that is what irks them. This government workers versus non-government workers middle class fight is a winner for the GOP. It is much more effective than the rich class warfare the democrats use.
21 posted on 02/25/2011 2:23:37 PM PST by HwyChile
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To: Sub-Driver
NJEA president at rally accuses Gov. Christie of trying to start a 'middle-class civil war'

"...when he's supposed to be surrendering unconditionally like every other spineless RINO!"

22 posted on 02/25/2011 3:35:32 PM PST by Still Thinking (Freedom is NOT a loophole!)
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To: Sub-Driver

It’s not about whatever they say it’s about.
They want a fight.
It’s human nature to struggle against...something.
Given the highest wages and best benefits any group of workers could ever have hoped for in history, they have everything they want.
Except a fight.
So, given the slightest pretense, they do what they most want to: accuse others of oppression, yell, bang drums and act stupid.

Agent Smith: Did you know that the first Matrix was designed to be a perfect human world? Where none suffered, where everyone would be happy. It was a disaster. No one would accept the program. Entire crops were lost. Some believed we lacked the programming language to describe your perfect world. But I believe that, as a species, human beings define their reality through suffering and misery. The perfect world was a dream that your primitive cerebrum kept trying to wake up from. Which is why the Matrix was redesigned to this: the peak of your civilization.
- The Matrix


23 posted on 02/26/2011 6:40:44 AM PST by ctdonath2 (Great children's books - http://www.UsborneBooksGA.com)
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To: LibFreeUSA; Sub-Driver
Typically "progressive" tactic of projection - accusing your enemy of doing exactly what they themselves have been doing all along.

The "middle-class civil war" is in reality the war against middle class (bourgeoisie) by the powerful government elite, and has been waged by the "progressives" since the movement started.

It's the "vampire class" of the government feeding on the involuntary "blood donor class" of productive population.

The development of the unholy alliance of unions, Democratic party, "progressives" and mafias in the USA has been aptly depicted in the Once Upon a Time in America (1984).

Bourgeoisie du monde, unissez-vous! - Middle class of the world, unite!

24 posted on 02/26/2011 11:00:34 AM PST by CutePuppy (If you don't ask the right questions you may not get the right answers)
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To: Sub-Driver
nooooooooooo... TaxPAYERS vs TaxTAKERS!!!
25 posted on 02/26/2011 11:20:07 AM PST by Chode (American Hedonist - *DTOM* -ww- NO Pity for the LAZY)
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To: Sub-Driver

he is trying to SAVE the middle class..... which the unions can’t stand!


26 posted on 02/26/2011 11:31:38 AM PST by bareford101 ("Aslan's on the move." The Last Battle-CS Lewis)
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To: norton

Good point. Middle Class is much more than just your income level. The vast majority of people in the Middle Class do not behave the way the union goons are acting.

Middle Class people, by and large, have CLASS. The thugs do not.

No, the union thugs are NOT Middle Class.


27 posted on 02/26/2011 11:43:23 AM PST by savedbygrace (But God.)
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To: Sub-Driver
The only ones protesting are the unions. They're only about 12% of the population, and most of them are social parasites. The other 88% of the population isn't there, because they don't care what the unions want.
Screw the unions. They don't represent the majority.
28 posted on 02/26/2011 12:10:01 PM PST by concerned about politics ("Get thee behind me, Liberal")
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To: Noumenon

Really; these teachers’ unions have VERY publicly declared war on middle-class taxpayers, and they know the odds are NOT in their favor. They are trying to squeeze blood from a stone; they’ve already impoverished NJ’s middle class, which continues to flee from the property tax onslaught. What will remain in NJ (illegal aliens, the permanent underclass, and government employees) is not a viable tax base.


29 posted on 02/26/2011 2:55:52 PM PST by kearnyirish2
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To: CutePuppy

Well put; this country is made up of people who pay into the government and those who draw from those funds (whether government worker, welfare queen, whatever).


30 posted on 02/26/2011 2:58:49 PM PST by kearnyirish2
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To: RC one

Yes they deserve “to make a living.” However, making a living does not include screwing the tax payers through excessive time off, excessive paid health plans, excessive use of “disability” when you know they are full-of-it, excessive salary relative to what they do and extremely excessive retirements retirement packages. They need to stop slurping the slop at the public trough. People aren’t going to be feeding them unlimited slop anymore. Wake up to reality. Stop squealing, you self-entitled public “servants”. I know they ALL work so hard, they ALL are so competent in whatever they do, they ALL as so indispensable, they ALL sacrifice as public “servants”, they ALL could earn so much more money in private industry (excuse me...I just threw up) and they ALL are irreplaceable because of the complexity of their jobs.


31 posted on 02/26/2011 3:33:06 PM PST by hal ogen (1st amendment or reeducation camp?)
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To: LibFreeUSA

I’ve met many “workers” like that. Do-nothing wasters with a bad attitude protected by the union.


32 posted on 02/26/2011 4:08:26 PM PST by Christian Engineer Mass (25ish Cambridge MA grad student. Many younger conservative Christians out there? __ Click my name)
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To: RC one
You're talking about teachers, nurses, cops, firemen, as well as a host of other professionals. They do deserve to earn a living.

I have a right to the property I own. I have a right to the fruit of my own leader. Governments are instituted to secure my unalienable rights. Stealing my money to give to a teacher to "educate" someone else's child is a violation of my rights. No taxpayer money should be given to either teachers or nurses.

33 posted on 02/26/2011 6:11:31 PM PST by ALPAPilot
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To: ALPAPilot

I have a right to the fruit of my own labor.

my bad


34 posted on 02/26/2011 6:12:52 PM PST by ALPAPilot
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To: ALPAPilot

Some of these professions are legitimate functions of Government. The important thing is the abolition of public-sector unions.


35 posted on 02/27/2011 1:58:12 AM PST by agere_contra (Historically every time the Left has 'expanded its moral imagination' the results have been horrific)
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To: hal ogen

There is a big difference between “making a living” and “earning a living”; by measures of productivity/results NJ teachers don’t earn minimum wage. While many teachers have a list of reasons why their students don’t learn (some of which are valid), they have no response when you concur with their assessment and ask why we’re paying teachers if there are no results anyway. If we absolve the teachers of responsibility for the outcome, can we then proceed to use security guards to simply hold the children for 6 hours a day?


36 posted on 02/27/2011 4:56:23 AM PST by kearnyirish2
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To: LibFreeUSA

Commie fisters.


37 posted on 02/27/2011 5:06:44 AM PST by Gene Eric (Your Hope has been redistributed. Here's your Change.)
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To: Sub-Driver
NJEA president at rally accuses Gov. Christie of trying to start a 'middle-class civil war'

Here's what he's really saying: "Our 'middle-class' public sector employees are deriving their income and all their benefits from taxes taken from the rest of the NJ middle class. Christie is pointing out to the non-public sector middle class that their income and quality of life are decreased to benefit the 'middle class' public sector employees and that public sector pensions wrangled by 'middle class' public sector employees through their unions' financial support of Democrat politicians using money obtained from union dues obtained from public-sector unionized salaries obtained from public money obtained from taxes mostly from the private sector middle class is going to wreck the state and the livelihood of all those private sector middle class folks. That evil guy is trying to start a civil war."

Sounds to me like Christie is pointing out a scam that needs to be stopped dead in its tracks.
38 posted on 02/27/2011 5:13:02 AM PST by aruanan
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To: kearnyirish2
they have no response when you concur with their assessment and ask why we’re paying teachers if there are no results anyway.

Why are the results sooooo abysmal in many government schools? The following are possible answers:

Do Prussian-model schools work? Do we really know the answer to this question? Where are the studies proving it!

Perhaps the only thing that these prison-like schools are doing is sending home a tuition-free curriculum for the parents and children to follow in the HOME.

Perhaps children from functional families learn because the parents and the child himself are AFTERSCHOOLING!

Maybe, for generations, we have been sending children into these prison-like institutions and THEY DO NOT WORK for ANY child! Where are the studies that prove that they do work?

I have asked this question, "Where are the studies!", many times, and **no** so-called "educator" has ever provided the studies that show what learning was acquired in the classroom and what was learned IN THE HOME!

If we absolve the teachers of responsibility for the outcome,

If I were attempting to sell a service in my own private business, I would want to know that the service had the **outcome** that I promised!!! If my private business service had a poor outcome, I would soon be out of business.

In government education, no teacher has ever provided me with the studies that PROVE that all this effort and taxpayer treasure spent in these expensive kiddie-prisons actually provides the **outcome** promised!

can we then proceed to use security guards to simply hold the children for 6 hours a day?

Yes, exactly!

If we were to **study** the problem of **where** children learns, and **who** is doing the hard work ( parent, child, friends of the family, hired tutors, teacher, etc.) we might find that government school has little to nothing to do with the child's success at learning!

An academically successful child may be successful IN SPITE of the time wasted in these prison-like structions. His success may be due to effort found entirely outside the school and IN THE HOME.

If academic success is due to the functional parent and child's resources and work done IN THE HOME, then it is **idiocy** to expect that children from dysfunctional families will have any success in these Prussian-model and prison-like "schools". We might as well hire security guards to babysit.

I ask these questions because I was the doctor in and owner of a large health clinic. Throughout my career, I had the opportunity to know, likely, thousands of families.

I ( anecdotally) observed that the parents of academically successful children, whether homeschooled or institutionalized, were doing the **SAME** things in the home. They had the same home habits, and the children ( whether home or institutionally schooled) were spending the same amount of time in "at the kitchen table" learning activities. Both sets of parents ( home or institutionally schooled) were getting the same types of outside help when needed. They hired tutors; asked help from neighbors, friends, and relatives; and organized study groups ( this was especially true for homeschoolers and older institutionalized children from foreign countries.)

My conclusion: The **real** hard work of learning was happening IN THE HOME. The institutional school was sending home a curriculum.

So...Again, why can't "professional" and so-called "educators" provide the studies that PROVE their service has an effective OUTCOME??? They can't provide the studies because the studies have never been done! We are spent taxpayer fortunes on a educational scheme that has never been tested or proved effective!!!

When spending tax dollars on education we MUST know the answer to this basic question. Why?

Answer:

If learning is due to the efforts of the parents and child IN THE HOME, then it is likely that putting children from functional families in prison-like settings actually artificially retards their academic and social development. They might be better off academically and socially if they spent MORE time AT HOME!

If our current Prussian-like model is ineffectual then we need to start thinking about entirely new models of education for the children of dysfunctional families. The KIPP-schools and other charters who are having success with children from dysfunctional family seem to be attempting to duplicate in the school what normally happens in the homes of children from functional families.

39 posted on 02/27/2011 6:01:33 AM PST by wintertime
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To: aruanan
Sounds to me like Christie is pointing out a scam that needs to be stopped dead in its tracks.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Every governor in this nation should go further.

Every governor should demand that government school “educators” **prove** with scientifically controlled studies that their services are effective and actual produce the outcomes promised!

Questions:

1) Where are the studies the PROVE government schools work at all?

2) How much is due to the efforts of parents and children IN THE HOME?

3) Are government kiddie prisons ( oops! “schools”) merely sending home a tuition-free curriculum for the parents and child to follow IN THE HOME?

It is my observation ( anecdotal) that there is little difference between the home and study habits of academically successful institutionalized children and homeschoolers! Both academically successful home and institutionalized children are spending the **SAME** amount of time working at a kitchen table or bedroom desk, and both home and institutionalized successful children have parents who value education who provide an academically rich environment for their children.

My conclusion: If anyone knows an academically successful childrn, either home or institutionally educated, then that child has done nearly all of the hard work IN THE HOME!

So....Where are the studies that difinitively PROVE where learning has happened? **WHO** is doing the hard work? Is it the prison guard ( oops! “teacher”) or is it the parents and the child with outside tutoring help from friends, family, paid tutors, and/or study groups?

If government schools are ineffective in providing the outcomes promised then:

** Academically successful children are wasting a lot of their lives in these prison-like structures. The government school may actually be retarding their academic and social progress. These kids might be far better off if they spent less time in their institutional school and more time IN THE HOME.

** It is complete idiocy to expect any success for children from dysfunctional families if they attend these prison-like schools. How we educate these children needs a fresh approach. ( By the way, KIPP schools are having success. What are they doing?)

40 posted on 02/27/2011 6:18:48 AM PST by wintertime
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To: savedbygrace

Middle Class people, by and large, have CLASS. The thugs do not.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Exactly!

Look at the class act of the Tea Party rallies. Look at Glen Beck’s rally.

And...Compare the condition of the grounds after the events.


41 posted on 02/27/2011 6:22:46 AM PST by wintertime
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To: VanDeKoik
C-students
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Someone is bound to post, “My sister is a teacher and she is very smart!”

Well...On **average** teachers have the lowest SAT and GRE scores on campus.

If someone has a smart sister, daughter, or brother-in-law who is one of the “smart” teacher, that means that somewhere there is a very DUMB teacher who is lowering the average!

42 posted on 02/27/2011 6:25:50 AM PST by wintertime
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To: Sub-Driver

I live in New Jersey, and have three children in school. The real story behind education and the teacher’s union in this state is unbelievable.

Teachers in our district make on average $85,000. Many are over $100,000. This is for 180 days of work per year - versus 243 days at about $55,000 for the average private citizen worker. They get free high-end health care, and generous free pension plans.

My children go to school until the end of June (the year starts the day after Labor Day). This is because - in working their 180 days per year - they take off time during the school year for unimaginable reasons. This is due to what the school calls “In-Service Days.”

Now In-Service Days are advertised as “working” days for the teacher, but in reality, they mysteriously surround three-day holidays. For example, my children just had off 5 days in a row for President’s Day. This included Thursday and Friday for In-Service Days, Saturday and Sunday, and the Monday holiday. This is normal, having multiple days off in a row around such days as Columbus Day, Martin Luther King Day, President’s Day, and so on. Add to that a newly minted mysterious holiday week in November called “Fall Break.” No, this is not Thanksgiving week, but two weeks prior to Thanksgiving, where the school is shut down for the entire week. The kids then return for a week, then get off for the normal Thanksgiving holiday period.

In-Service Days are an outright scam. It is difficult to convince us that the teachers are truly working. If this was so, In-Service Days would be mid-week, as opposed to centered around three-day weekends. The parking lots of the schools are empty during In-Service Days, and from time to time, videos surface of teachers gambling in Atlantic City during these tough out-of-school paid days.

We have to laugh when we hear the teachers complaining about Christie, but our laughter is tempered by our taxes, and the reality of the stranglehold this union has on our pocketbooks.


43 posted on 02/27/2011 6:51:00 AM PST by Magnatron
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To: Magnatron
In my county the government schools dawrf any other single buisness, in terms of payroll and numbers employed. **Nothing** in the county comes even close. Add to this number all the spouses and family members who have someone working for the school district. Then add the vendors, their employees, and their family members.

Even my dentist and his five employees depend on the very generous school dental insurance that comes into his office.

So...What the teachers unions want in our county, they get. They have enormous power to mobilize their voters and to get their message out. Our school board consists of their people. And...To make matters even worse, being elected to the school board is the major stepping stone to higher office in our state.

We have NO private schools in our county. Why would there be? There are so many people sitting in the pews who are sucking a living from the governmen schools, no minister would dare offend them by starting a church school. Who is going to bite the hand putting money in the collection plate?

Our county recently built a $70 million dollar high school. It's for the chiiiildren, of course!. In the meantime the cub scouts that I work with literally can NOT read, add, or subtract, and forget about multiplication and division.

Personally...I feel like a slave to the greedy voting mob.

My husband and I have countered in two ways:

** We retired early. Like “Atlas” we have “Shrugged”.

** We have structured our lives so that the most minimal taxes possible go to the government school cartel.

There is some glimmer of hope. Homeschooling is spreading like a wildfire.

44 posted on 02/27/2011 7:30:03 AM PST by wintertime
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To: wintertime

A “Prussian-style” system worked well for providing a basic foundation, on which other learning could build; what we have today doesn’t seem very “Prussian” to me, though I confess I don’t know the particulars of it. I’d imagine Prussian children were much more attentive in class, and there was more done to ensure that lessons “sank in” (even if learning by rote, which has its benefits in some subjects). The amount of homework my children bring home is quite a bit; “No Child Left Behind” has really turned up the pressure on the education industry. I’ve even had things sent home from teachers asking parents to sign a contract that we’ll provide a good homework environment, etc.; the gall of my employees to dictate the terms by which I involuntarily spend several thousand dollars annually on them is stunning (those “contracts” are never returned to school).

On top of the dysfunctional non-learning environment in the classroom is a problem where children outside of school spend less time doing anything other than watch TV or play video games. The number of times I’ve taken my children to a park or playground, and they are among the only American children there, it too high to count; other children (mostly Latino or Asian) are there with one or both parents playing very actively. I understand the work schedules of parents make this difficult, but when I think of how we played outside when we were younger, as compared to how kids are today, it is very sad. Games like man-hunt, and trips along the lines of the movie “Stand By Me”, were routine (I grew up in the edge of the NJ Meadowlands - lots to explore); now when I take my children hiking or camping they don’t get the same out of it that I did.


45 posted on 02/27/2011 9:38:07 AM PST by kearnyirish2
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To: kearnyirish2
A “Prussian-style” system worked well for providing a basic foundation, on which other learning could build; what we have today doesn’t seem very “Prussian” to me, though I confess I don’t know the particulars of it. I’d imagine Prussian children were much more attentive in class, and there was more done to ensure that lessons “sank in” (even if learning by rote, which has its benefits in some subjects).

Well....Without controlled studies we can't know for certain if existing institutional schools are effective.

I have asked many times, here on Free Republic, for professional educators to provide the studies that would show exactly **where** children learn ( at home or in the class), and **who** is doing the hard work of teaching. ( Is it the parent, child, tutors, friends of the family, study groups, or classroom teacher?)

Certainly, many people have anecdotal opinions and experiences to share, but without careful studies no one can say for certain that the typical institutional government school teaches anything. It could be that nearly all the results are due to the work done in the home.

The amount of homework my children bring home is quite a bit

When I ask parents of academically successful children about their home study habits, I have found that academically successful homeschoolers and institutionalized children both spend about the same amount of time doing schoolwork in the HOME! That is what made me think that, maybe, institutional schools don't teach anything! Maybe it is the free curriculum that the schools send home. Maybe the real work of teaching and learning is happening in the HOME. Maybe the academically successful institutionalized child is **afterschooling**.

; “No Child Left Behind” has really turned up the pressure on the education industry. I’ve even had things sent home from teachers asking parents to sign a contract that we’ll provide a good homework environment, etc.; the gall of my employees to dictate the terms by which I involuntarily spend several thousand dollars annually on them is stunning (those “contracts” are never returned to school).

Intuitively these teachers must know that their success depends on the efforts of others ( the parent and the child). At some level they must know that little of what they do in the class makes any difference in what a child learns.

On top of the dysfunctional non-learning environment in the classroom is a problem where children outside of school spend less time doing anything other than watch TV or play video games. The number of times I’ve taken my children to a park or playground, and they are among the only American children there, it too high to count; other children (mostly Latino or Asian) are there with one or both parents playing very actively. I understand the work schedules of parents make this difficult, but when I think of how we played outside when we were younger, as compared to how kids are today, it is very sad. Games like man-hunt, and trips along the lines of the movie “Stand By Me”, were routine (I grew up in the edge of the NJ Meadowlands - lots to explore); now when I take my children hiking or camping they don’t get the same out of it that I did.

One of the blessings of homeschooling is that formal homeschooling is rather quickly finished. For my kids it was rarely more than 2 hours a day, 5 days a week, but we worked all year, except major holidays. The rest of the time they **played**. ( We had no TV.)

It was a fascinating process to watch. Their play was extremely intense and even as preschoolers the same task would occupy hours, and even days and weeks. Gradually, this intense concentration that was devoted to play evolved into highly focused adult work and perfection of adult hobbies such as dance, art, and music.

If children are robbed of the opportunity for sustained and uninterrupted play, how will they learn to concentrate and work hard? If children are interrupted constantly by a school or day care's bells and whistles every half hour or so, where is the opportunity to learn sustained concentration? Is it surprising that we have so much ADD or ADHD when children have so little chance to play and explore?

46 posted on 02/27/2011 2:50:05 PM PST by wintertime
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To: agere_contra
Some of these professions are legitimate functions of Government.

Which ones? Certainly not teachers.

47 posted on 02/27/2011 2:51:18 PM PST by ALPAPilot
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To: agere_contra
Some of these professions are legitimate functions of Government.

Which ones? Certainly not teachers.

48 posted on 02/27/2011 2:51:33 PM PST by ALPAPilot
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To: wintertime

We had no TV either as kids; made a big difference. I actually had a teacher (conservative, anti-union) explain ADD to me; her students had attention spans that were the length of a television commercial.

Very disturbing.


49 posted on 02/28/2011 3:30:31 AM PST by kearnyirish2
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