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Never before release 911 video, main NYPD source(why now?)
aol ^ | 3/7/2011 | Lisa Flam

Posted on 03/07/2011 10:25:32 AM PST by SonsOfLibertyII

Why did it take a freedom of information act request for us to see one of the main video sources of 911? Why didn't the people on the National Commission on Terrorist Attacks Upon the United States, tell us about it or at least identify it as a significant source?


TOPICS: Government
KEYWORDS: 911
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Was this the succeeding admin cya for leaving [former Clinton deputy Attorney General] Jamie Gorelick policies in place?
1 posted on 03/07/2011 10:25:41 AM PST by SonsOfLibertyII
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To: SonsOfLibertyII

is the vid at aol?
i don’t want to go there is I don’t have to


2 posted on 03/07/2011 10:31:30 AM PST by RWGinger
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To: SonsOfLibertyII

good ol’ Jamie Gorelick...didnt she move on to head Fannie Mae?


3 posted on 03/07/2011 10:32:16 AM PST by Former MSM Viewer
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To: RWGinger

Yes its all over the net now. Likely on youtube or some less lib sites.


4 posted on 03/07/2011 10:34:42 AM PST by SonsOfLibertyII
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To: SonsOfLibertyII
Was this the succeeding admin cya for leaving [former Clinton deputy Attorney General] Jamie Gorelick policies in place?

What about the seven years of the Bush admin? Were they in on the cover up?

5 posted on 03/07/2011 10:35:41 AM PST by raybbr (People who still support Obama are either a Marxist or a moron.)
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To: RWGinger
is the vid at aol?
i don’t want to go there is I don’t have to

It's there.

6 posted on 03/07/2011 10:35:56 AM PST by al_c (http://www.blowoutcongress.com)
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To: SonsOfLibertyII

for later


7 posted on 03/07/2011 10:36:22 AM PST by PMAS
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To: Former MSM Viewer

No she is with Obama’s crew now, BP.

In 2005, Army Lt. Col. Anthony Shaffer and Congressman Curt Weldon alleged that the Defense Department data mining project Able Danger produced a chart that identified Atta, along with Nawaf al-Hazmi, Khalid al-Mihdhar, and Marwan al-Shehhi, as members of a Brooklyn-based al-Qaeda cell in early 2000.[98]


8 posted on 03/07/2011 10:36:50 AM PST by SonsOfLibertyII
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To: al_c
Here you go.

Also at The Blaze

9 posted on 03/07/2011 10:40:59 AM PST by Aevery_Freeman (It's not the *Prince of Fools* but rather the *fools* that are the problem)
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To: SonsOfLibertyII
I'm 100% sure I saw parts of this on TV at the time (meaning the first weeks afterward). Not the entire thing, but just the "holy crap, the whole tower" parts. Just because the whole thing was "never released" does not mean it has never been seen. sauropod's wife
10 posted on 03/07/2011 10:42:45 AM PST by sauropod (The truth shall make you free but first it will make you miserable.)
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To: All

I don’t believe there’s anything new provided by the video..Just a different view/perspective...Now if we had a video of the terrorist shaking hands with Cheney, then we would have something....


11 posted on 03/07/2011 10:43:51 AM PST by Maringa
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To: al_c

Seriously, does anyone have any ideas on this? What legitimate reason would there be to hold back on videos like this?
I am speculating that its just incompetent gov wanting people to move along their attention to something else. Not one person was fired in our gov after 3,000 people were murdered. Lets keep our borders open and see if we can top 3k the next time it happens, no?


12 posted on 03/07/2011 10:44:28 AM PST by SonsOfLibertyII
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To: SonsOfLibertyII
What legitimate reason would there be to hold back on videos like this?

My idea is that the City of New York asserted its copyright on the video. The video caption from the YouTube link says:

WTC Attack September 11, 2001 from New York Police Helicopter

Video obtained by FOIA to NIST by an anonymous person who directed it be sent to Cryptome. Excerpt of the NIST letter.

Quote: These electronic files image were provided to NIST by the New York Police Department. The City of New York has provided NIST with the following notice:

"Please take notice that the City of New York ("City") has asserted that the contents of the enclosed DVD-ROM is protected under tbe Copyright Act, 17 U.S.C. sections 101 et seq. Tbe City expressly reserves its rights in these materials, and requires that you obtain the City's permission prior to any reproduction, modification, adaptation, recompilation, or other derivative use of each DVD-ROM or portion thereof, including any still image extracted or derived therefrom, and that the City's permission be obtained prior to the commercial distribution of any video footage and of still or moving images extracted or derived therefrom in any medium, by sale, rental, lease, lending or other means. The City requires that the instant notice accompany any moving or still images that you disseminate for any reason, including dissemination that complies with the fair use authorized by section 107 of the Copyright Act, and requires that each recipient of these materials comply with the instant Notice. Moreover, the City requires that a summary statement of its copyright be embedded in any moving or still images extracted from the enclosed DVD-ROM that are broadcast in any medium for any purpose. This summary statement shall read as follows: "Copyright (c) NYPD." Please write to the New York City Police Department, Legal Bureau, 1 Police Plaza, Room 1406, New York, N. Y. 10038, for information about obtaining an appropriate license." Unquote

The video has been uploaded as provided by NIST without modification. Original in VOB format, 700MB.

A related collection of 153 still photos from another NYPD helicopter:

http://cryptome.org/0001/wtc-nist-gjs/wtc-nist-gjs.zip (64MB)


13 posted on 03/07/2011 10:51:16 AM PST by Constitution Day
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To: Maringa

I am not posting this as support for some conspiracy, but it gives credence to those 911 truthers, that we get this drip drip of evidence. I am a “birther” and if a original birth certificate is now produced years after stalling and preventing release then that document deserves more scrutiny because the manner and circumstances in which it was released.


14 posted on 03/07/2011 10:53:14 AM PST by SonsOfLibertyII
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To: Aevery_Freeman

Bump


15 posted on 03/07/2011 10:53:14 AM PST by B.O. Plenty (Give war a chance...)
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To: SonsOfLibertyII

“but it gives credence to those 911 truthers”

Nothing gives credence to 9/11 truthers. Anyone who believes that claptrap is brain dead.

As Rosie said “its the first time in history that fire melted steel”.


16 posted on 03/07/2011 10:55:01 AM PST by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: Former MSM Viewer

She’s now harassing the exonerated Duke Lacrosse Team. See http://www.lewrockwell.com/anderson/anderson312.html


17 posted on 03/07/2011 10:58:53 AM PST by bvw
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To: SonsOfLibertyII

Just in time for King’s hearings...maybe this was the type of reminder we need as American’s to understand what our enemy is capable of!!!


18 posted on 03/07/2011 11:04:59 AM PST by surfer (To err is human, to really foul things up takes a Democrat, don't expect the GOP to have the answer!)
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To: SonsOfLibertyII

Thanks
I found it
very chilling
I am not sure why it was not released earlier though.


19 posted on 03/07/2011 11:06:31 AM PST by RWGinger
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To: SonsOfLibertyII

for later


20 posted on 03/07/2011 11:07:05 AM PST by redgolum ("God is dead" -- Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" -- God.)
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To: redgolum

Ok so they may come up with the excuse oh, we just forgot to mention we had it. What else do they have? Its time for Conservatives to form their own committee and make a determination of who should have been fired.

Yeah that German philosopher is dead, ha.


21 posted on 03/07/2011 11:12:31 AM PST by SonsOfLibertyII
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To: sauropod

Been seen many many times. This is someone’s idea of a revelation?


22 posted on 03/07/2011 11:16:34 AM PST by Carley (WISCONSIN STREET NO DIFFERENT THAN THE ARAB STREET. UGLY AND VIOLENT)
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To: Carley

Where is your evidence that it has been seen before? Can you post any reference to it or a portion of it? Are you claiming you yourself saw it? Is there some youtube site for all of it or a portion of it that you can cite? If not then why make such an unsubstantiated claim?


23 posted on 03/07/2011 11:27:34 AM PST by SonsOfLibertyII
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To: sauropod
It's been edited! The part where the tower is actually collapsing has been edited out, between 4:03 and 4:04. The camera has just zoomed in, then zooms out, then at 4:04 someone says, "Ah!" but it's like his comment has been cut off before that. Then someone says "Holy crap, the whole side, it's gone, the whole tower!" But there is no reason why they wouldn't have seen and taped the actual collapse.

This is the real enigma. Not the fact that the tape was never release, but what happened to the collapse footage.

24 posted on 03/07/2011 11:33:21 AM PST by giotto
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To: RWGinger

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w465MHsvYpg&feature=player_embedded


25 posted on 03/07/2011 11:51:56 AM PST by Munz (All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent.)
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To: giotto
It's been edited! The part where the tower is actually collapsing has been edited out, between 4:03 and 4:04. The camera has just zoomed in, then zooms out, then at 4:04 someone says, "Ah!" but it's like his comment has been cut off before that. Then someone says "Holy crap, the whole side, it's gone, the whole tower!" But there is no reason why they wouldn't have seen and taped the actual collapse.

This is the real enigma. Not the fact that the tape was never release, but what happened to the collapse footage.

I noticed that it was edited too.

It is stupid to not show it or other horrible things. It is information control. Not that I wanted to see horrible things on purpose. I do not believe in censorship of any kind.

Also, some motion pictures digitally erased the twin towers from the film.

It is like they were never there in real life.

26 posted on 03/07/2011 11:53:00 AM PST by archivist007
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To: giotto

i dont know if it was cut or just stopped and restarted again.
how do you really know that the tower started collapsing at that point? I see nothing to indicate that.


27 posted on 03/07/2011 11:54:24 AM PST by Munz (All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent.)
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To: Munz

Thank you very much


28 posted on 03/07/2011 11:57:51 AM PST by RWGinger
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To: RWGinger

happy to help. I understand completely :)


29 posted on 03/07/2011 11:59:23 AM PST by Munz (All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent.)
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To: RWGinger

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w465MHsvYpg


30 posted on 03/07/2011 12:28:37 PM PST by RnMomof7
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To: Aevery_Freeman

Any idea why I have no sound from U Tube?


31 posted on 03/07/2011 12:30:31 PM PST by Domangart
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To: SonsOfLibertyII

The day we lost our innocence here


32 posted on 03/07/2011 12:31:27 PM PST by RnMomof7
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To: Munz

Later.


33 posted on 03/07/2011 12:40:55 PM PST by kcvl
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To: SonsOfLibertyII
Where is your evidence that it has been seen before?

My evidence is in my memory. That's inside my skull.

Are you claiming you yourself saw it?

No, I am STATING that I myself saw several portions of this footage many times in 2001. And if I saw it, millions of other people saw it too. It was on TV in New York. Local and national programming. It is not "secret footage".

Is there some youtube site for all of it or a portion of it that you can cite?

If youtube even existed in 2001, most of us here were not utilizing it.

If not then why make such an unsubstantiated claim?

It's not a claim, and it's not unsubstantiated. I've seen it before. I recognized it immediately.

sauropd's wife

34 posted on 03/07/2011 12:41:21 PM PST by sauropod (The truth shall make you free but first it will make you miserable.)
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To: SonsOfLibertyII

Correct me if I’m wrong - but I see no new evidence in this clip.

“Pick your battles”?


35 posted on 03/07/2011 12:42:43 PM PST by maine-iac7 ("We stand together or we fall apart" mt)
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To: SonsOfLibertyII

Almost 10 years and it still feels like yesterday...


36 posted on 03/07/2011 12:43:33 PM PST by FightforFreedomCA (Pelosi is a wretched, communist, b!#*&)
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To: Munz
Because at 4:03 the tower is still there, and at 4:03 it is not. Clearly there was a section cut out. In my opinion, the voice-over sounds fake. On 9/11, no one said "Holy crap" when the tower fell. Almost everyone said either "Holy s#!+" or "Oh my God" or "F***" The audio voice-over in this tape sounds as if someone has added it to the revised video.
37 posted on 03/07/2011 1:27:40 PM PST by giotto
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To: SonsOfLibertyII

“Not one person was fired in our gov after 3,000 people were murdered.”

O.K., out of curiosity, I’ll take the bait: Who, exactly, in your opinion, should have been fired?


38 posted on 03/07/2011 1:44:45 PM PST by Wuli
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To: SonsOfLibertyII

“I am not posting this as support for some conspiracy, but it gives credence to those 911 truthers, that we get this drip drip of evidence”

I don’t find anything in or about this video to consider it new “evidence” in any material way.

The particular angle and “point of view” of the camera in this particular helicopter might be different than other still and moving images taken at the same time, but the result of the images it provides does not provide anything “new”, any “new” evidence, that other images and facts did not and has not already provided.

The facts makes your “drip drip” angle - concerning this video - just silly.


39 posted on 03/07/2011 1:52:55 PM PST by Wuli
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To: SonsOfLibertyII

“Its time for Conservatives to form their own committee and make a determination of who should have been fired.”

Since it’s your idea, why don’t you start the process here, by telling us who you think should be on the list of “should have been fired”.


40 posted on 03/07/2011 1:56:00 PM PST by Wuli
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To: Wuli

Maybe the then Director of Central Intelligence. But would need time and money to give a fair hearing of both sides. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Tenet#cite_note-navy-17 CCC – Intelligence Failure and 9/11 At the least he should have resigned. If your a guard and the enemy gets through the gate, then just out of an abundance of caution lets have another guard have a go at it, no? Also, look into the head of the then INS or its sub agencies who are responsible for identifying and capturing foreigners with expired visas, like auntie Zeituni Onyango.

Even Admiral Kimmel was punished for Pearl Harbor which he had less control over the circumstances and foreseeability then did the CIA in the situation with 911.

See wiki On the other hand, Kimmel’s critics point out that he had been ordered (on November 27, 1941, ten days prior to the attack) to initiate a “defensive deployment” of the fleet. Kimmel understood this to mean defense against sabotage, and so made the necessary arrangements. Because of this misinterpretation ships were kept in port and the fleet was not placed on alert. Moreover, after his intelligence unit lost track of Japan’s aircraft carriers, Kimmel did not order any long-range air or naval patrols to assess their positions,[5] in part for lack of serviceable PBYs, in part because he also had a training schedule to maintain, and in part because the Army Air Corps had the responsibility for long-range patrol (but even less capability in Hawaii than he did, since the Philippines had higher priority).

On August 23, Atta’s driver license was revoked in absentia after he failed to show up in traffic court to answer the earlier citation for driving without a license.[77] On the same day, Israeli Mossad reportedly gave his name to the CIA as part of a list of 19 names they said were planning an attack in the near future. Only four of the names are known for certain including Atta; Marwan al-Shehhi, Khalid al-Mihdhar and Nawaf al-Hazmi.[78] On August 30 he was recorded purchasing a utility knife from a Wal-Mart store near the hotel where he stayed prior to 9/11.


41 posted on 03/07/2011 2:28:45 PM PST by SonsOfLibertyII
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To: SonsOfLibertyII

I probably would agree with you on Tenant; that given circumstances he probably should have resigned; if only in recognition that he either failed to promote the policies and actions that more likely (more than the efforts that were in place) MIGHT have “seen” the 9/11 attack coming (in some specific, actionable intelligence manner) or that he had failed, politically, to convince either Clinton or Bush to take the necessary steps.

I have not seen this next idea, but here it is: That we may yet find out he had tried to resign but GWB (as he did with Rummy) refused to accept it.

As far as everything you had to say about Atta; none of it amounted to specific actionable intelligence, beyond the intelligence community continuing to be “on the look out” for Atta’s name to show up - IN THE INTELLIGENCE STREAM, along with a few hundred other guys; with “actionable intelligence” being something that is directed to some specific action of the terrorists to be extremely concerned about and some specific action some agency should and can make.

But, it - Atta’s name - wasn’t COMPLETELY in the intelligence stream because of the institutional disconnect between the “U.S. intelligence community” and other law enforcement agencies, at many levels. THAT was not the particular fault of the incumbent leaders and workers in intelligence and law enforcement. Years of executive and legislative action had set the standards they operated by.

While it is sometimes easy to see possible “actions that could have been taken” (if only ALL information was ‘connected’), it is often more difficult to correctly and with certainty fault individuals for actions not taken.


42 posted on 03/07/2011 3:41:10 PM PST by Wuli
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To: Wuli

40 billion reasons 3,000 people should not have died.
Your explanations are not execuses.
Explain the acceptable nature of the failures to the parents of murdered 2 year old Christine Lee Hanson.

CIA-40 billion dollar budget
CIA-15,000? employees
INS-1 billion dollar budget
INS-18,000 employees
FBI-5? billion dollar budge
FBI-30,000? employees

Not the first time al-Qaeda attacked the US, won’t be the last.
Wake up.


43 posted on 03/07/2011 4:41:26 PM PST by SonsOfLibertyII
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To: giotto

Looks more like they turned the camera off or paused it.
he says holy crap again at 4;16 and again at 4:38
It is a cop who knows that his tape will be reviewed.

later he does say holy GD .. but he says it as if he is trying to suppress it in his surprise.

They were doing work and the camera was paused. Nothing more.


44 posted on 03/07/2011 4:58:00 PM PST by Munz (All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent.)
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To: giotto

Maybe the guy with the camera had to change cassettes.

There is no “voice-over” that sounds any different than it did the first time I heard it. You’d have to ask the cop why he wasn’t as profane as you thought he should have been.


45 posted on 03/07/2011 5:24:12 PM PST by sauropod (The truth shall make you free but first it will make you miserable.)
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To: SonsOfLibertyII

“Not the first time al-Qaeda attacked the US, won’t be the last. Wake up.”

Your preaching to the choir; you just don’t know it, because you still think your questions mean that someone CAN WITH CERTAINTY point to some individual to definitely hold responsible. But all your questions ARE NOT EVIDENCE of WHO, with certainty, such individuals are.

As you and I both agreed, Tenant is one person who could have shouldered the public responsibility for the intelligence errors. Besides Tenant, and possibly Jamie Gorelick (extension of the intelligence vs law enforcement disconnect) I don’t know of any smoking guns with definite individuals names engraved on them.

[Sometime in the 1990s, my local dentist was struggling with a difficult root canal job on one of my teeth. The canal itself had a bend in it. He had been attempting to complete the procedure with at least three changes of the drill bit he was using. He was being very careful and diligent and seeking the best result for me. At one point he said: Whoops, and stopped the procedure. I asked, with my numb mouth, what was the problem. He said the drill bit had broken off inside the canal. In order to retrieve it, and save the tooth, it would require oral surgery; that would have to be done elsewhere and by someone else. He left the decision to me. I thought the tooth was not in good enough shape to save; more than a simple filling would be needed to make it whole again. As I told this tale to friends and associates shortly after it happened, many wanted me to sue the dentist, on a claim of either negligence or some form of malpractice, for “costing” me the loss of the tooth. I never had and never accepted such a thought. I was there. I know what happened and sometimes its no ones “fault”; shit happens.]

[In 2007 I was in a life-threatening accident, from a huge tree that decided to die at the instance I was the only person in the world in its path. Besides the concussion, the split in the top of the skull, the cervical disk and spinal injuries, as well as other physical injuries, I had to deal with neighbors (and a few friends) who thought I should sue my town (the tree was formerly standing between the sidewalk and the curb). Lawyer friends told me it was a nearly impossible “act of G-d” case (who coulda, shoulda, woulda known it was going to fall at that time). For myself, I would respond to my neighbors by telling them to just let me know by how much I should cause their taxes to go up, and I’d be happy to accommodate them. Shit happens.]

I will never be a rich man and may always have some debt from my accident, but I sleep well at night knowing I have not tried to make myself feel better by looking to find some specific “culprit” to blame my accident on. I have never even once had the anxiety of entertaining the question with any great seriousness. Life is too short.

Looking for blame is 99% trying to satisfy our emotions, not obtaining truly meaningful answers. This is evident from how relieved we are simply because a culprit is named, and how much more important that sense of relief is (a false sense of relief) than the truth or certainty of true evidence to convict the culprit.

Keep chasing that phantom if you need to. Most of us don’t. Most of us are quite satisfied with blaming the terrorists.


46 posted on 03/07/2011 5:57:51 PM PST by Wuli
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To: SonsOfLibertyII

Seems to me that there isn’t anything new on this, other than yet another perspective.

There is some video that has never been released. A lady that used to do a radio talk show in Seattle was staying at a Hotel across the street from the plaza at the WTC that morning. They were in their room, maybe 20 or 30 floors up, when the whole thing began. They were in their room videotaping and narrating until after the second tower fell. Only then did they finally evacuate.

They have decided to never release their tape, even though they’ve been offered well into six figures for it. They provided it to the FBI and it was used in the trial of KSM. She also testified in the trial.

She said they’re keeping the tape private out of respect for the jumpers. They were so close that the faces were identifiable as people were jumping to their deaths. Something that affected them for years afterward. They were watching them... right there in the street in front of them. Not just a few, either. Hundreds. The sound they made when they hit something, was sickening. Dozens of them every minute. Eventually they stopped pointing the camera at them.

She did do an amazing radio show about their ordeal, for about three hours on one saturday. It was riveting. They played the audio of their recording, and added more commentary about all the other things going on at the time, and the decisions they made... like whether to and when to evacuate.

But their video isn’t going to be publicly available any time soon. Like she says... it’s a different perspective, a “front row seat” if you will, but it doesn’t add anything that we don’t already know.


47 posted on 03/07/2011 6:00:37 PM PST by Ramius (Personally, I give us... one chance in three. More tea?)
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To: giotto

So what? The guy had stopped the camera, and started recording again when he saw the second tower fall. What’s so mysterious about that?


48 posted on 03/07/2011 6:04:04 PM PST by Ramius (Personally, I give us... one chance in three. More tea?)
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To: Ramius; sauropod; Munz

I guess the camera could have been turned off. It just seems odd. What is even odder is that, absent my theory, there’s nothing new or noteworthy about this video. Why is it being touted now, as if there were some new revelation in it?


49 posted on 03/07/2011 6:32:25 PM PST by giotto
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To: giotto
I logged out of my husband's account and into my own to continue.

Because at 4:03 the tower is still there, and at 4:03 it is not. Clearly there was a section cut out.

At 4:03, they and the helicopter were still on the ground in that little park behind the world Financial Center buildings. Both towers were still up. I know this because the Marriot hotel beneath the towers was still perfectly intact at 4:03. That hotel was practically destroyed after the first tower collapsed onto it---literally cut to pieces---and then pounded into rubble half an hour later by the second collapse. Since the hotel is still there at 4:03, so is the South Tower. You just can't see it well because of the smoke and the angle.

At 4:04 the helicopter is back up in the air, not still on the ground, and the South Tower is gone. There is no footage of them getting back in the helicopter and taking off again--we don't even know how long it took. It doesn't mean anything was "cut out", it just means they weren't filming during the ascent---why would they be? It's not as if they knew when the towers were going to come down. The South tower obviously fell between the moment they got back into the helicopter and the moment they were circling above the site again. It only took about 20 seconds for it to fall, if I recall correctly. Anyway, it had obviously JUST happened in this video. The big dust cloud had barely begun to move. It covered a lot more territory before it finally began to dissipate.

Later, around 7 minutes in, one of the men says "we got out just at the right time". I think that was a statement about how close that park was to the World Trade Center. They'd have been under that cloud if they hadn't gotten back into the air when they did.

50 posted on 03/07/2011 6:36:01 PM PST by hellinahandcart ((sauropod's wife))
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