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SHOCKING AUDIO: Philadelphia Police violate rights of open carrier at gunpoint (PA)
OpenCarry.org ^ | 24 March, 2011 | t1m0thy

Posted on 03/26/2011 4:28:04 PM PDT by marktwain

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-vUYeJXSrA

Listen as a citizen exercising his 2nd amendment right to legally bear arms was violently assaulted by Philadelphia Police with no cause.

In Pennsylvania carrying a gun is not reasonable suspicion of a crime and not justification for a stop and search or a detainment.

(Excerpt) Read more at forum.opencarry.org ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Government; News/Current Events; US: Pennsylvania
KEYWORDS: banglist; donutwatch; opencarry; pa; pennsylvania; philadelphia; police
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Audio at the site on youtube.com. There is also a video from the same source that I will post the link to. I do not know the date of the incident.
1 posted on 03/26/2011 4:28:09 PM PDT by marktwain
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To: Owl_Eagle; brityank; Physicist; WhyisaTexasgirlinPA; GOPJ; abner; baseballmom; Mo1; Ciexyz; ...

ping


2 posted on 03/26/2011 4:30:26 PM PDT by Tribune7 (The Democrat Party is not a political organization but a religious cult.)
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To: marktwain

Here is the link to the audio of the arrest/detainment/assault.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-vUYeJXSrA

Here is a video that appears to be from the same source:

Who shall guard the guards

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=keNVkfrDA68&feature=watch_response


3 posted on 03/26/2011 4:30:37 PM PDT by marktwain
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To: marktwain

Well, when you do this in a place where the law is not well versed in the rights of its citizens in issues like this...

You will get a lot more attention and unreasonable enforcement every time...

But you have to admire this guys guts...

Wonder how the case will develop...


4 posted on 03/26/2011 4:37:45 PM PDT by stevie_d_64 (I'm jus' sayin')
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To: marktwain

Wuldn’t it b e great if the police understood the law? This officer obviously needs “further training”. What a jerk.


5 posted on 03/26/2011 4:41:38 PM PDT by hal ogen (1st amendment or reeducation camp?)
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To: marktwain

Much of the time in PA the cops are not even aware of the frigging laws.

A few big time lawsuits will make law classes mandatory.


6 posted on 03/26/2011 4:41:43 PM PDT by Red in Blue PA (For the first time in my adult life, I'm scared of my government.)
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To: marktwain

Every policeman who opened his/her mouth in that incident needs to be terminated and NEVER work in law enforcement ever again. I have never even heard of anything that bad in this country before. Awful.


7 posted on 03/26/2011 4:41:56 PM PDT by MeneMeneTekelUpharsin (Freedom is the freedom to discipline yourself so others don't have to do it for you.)
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To: Tribune7
Too bad he isn't a Black Muslim - you know.

If he was a democRAt it would be several be new Escalades.

A nation gone mad.

8 posted on 03/26/2011 4:44:27 PM PDT by oldtimer (uee)
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To: marktwain

The policemen are completely out of control. Is this a court case yet?


9 posted on 03/26/2011 4:47:00 PM PDT by MeneMeneTekelUpharsin (Freedom is the freedom to discipline yourself so others don't have to do it for you.)
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To: marktwain

But, but, cops are your friends right??? They wouldn’t take your guns away.


10 posted on 03/26/2011 4:49:08 PM PDT by rednesss (fascism is the union,marriage,merger or fusion of corporate economic power with governmental power)
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To: marktwain

Two thoughts. First, he’s lucky he wasn’t walking his dog. We know how that would’ve ended. Second, aren’t police supposed to deescalate “hostile” situations? Who was the one escalating that situation? It certainly wasn’t the citizen.


11 posted on 03/26/2011 5:01:58 PM PDT by OldDeckHand
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To: marktwain

“Who shall guard the guards”?

If you would settle for “Who shall discipline the guards”, the answer is LAWYERS ! ! !


12 posted on 03/26/2011 5:03:41 PM PDT by GladesGuru (In a society predicated upon freedom, it is essential to examine principles,)
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To: marktwain

All of these police officers are vile! This is the caliber of thugs unions are producing for all of us. Do these officers deserve a full retirement paid for by the very same people they oppress?


13 posted on 03/26/2011 5:04:05 PM PDT by 7thOF7th (Righteousness is our cause and justice will prevail!)
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To: marktwain
That jackboot antagonizer was still bouncing his jaw trying to justify his ignorance.
14 posted on 03/26/2011 5:05:53 PM PDT by MaxMax
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To: marktwain

Any word what the outcome of this was? Around 14:14 it sounds as though they make a decision, but it is hard to make out. In the end it sounds like he says to put in report he was not cooperating (which also isn’t a crime in itself as long as you aren’t directly resisting.)

What is also disturbing is it sounds as though, from minute 8 to 14 they are coordinating the story in the background and things like saying his hands were in his pockets when he and one other person says they weren’t.


15 posted on 03/26/2011 5:08:06 PM PDT by mnehring
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To: MeneMeneTekelUpharsin

IMHO, people, including cops, who can’t put a sentence together without every other word being the F bomb, are inherently stupid.


16 posted on 03/26/2011 5:08:22 PM PDT by basil (It's time to rid the country of "gun free zones" aka "Killing Fields")
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To: marktwain
Audio isn't working safe past the time backup arrives, as that's when the insane officer arrives. Wow, I'd say I was surprised about this but it really isn't anything new to me. I've had similar incidents with a small sheath knife on my belt, with a felony takedown lest the knife leap out and jump the officer.

Of course, in most of California it is a felony to carry a knife vs the far less serious offense of carrying a gun. Both of which are protected by the 2nd of it is a weapon, and if tools, none of the officer's business.

17 posted on 03/26/2011 5:08:31 PM PDT by kingu (Legislators should read what they write!)
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To: marktwain
Would this citizen have been treated differently if he had obeyed every police command, justified or not, unquestionably? Maybe, maybe not.
18 posted on 03/26/2011 5:10:05 PM PDT by luvbach1 (Stop Barry now. He can't help himself.)
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To: marktwain

What is false arrest going for in civil court these days? The figure $10,000,000 seems to pop into my head.

Oh, and a few cops finding new careers.


19 posted on 03/26/2011 5:10:21 PM PDT by don-o (He will not share His glory; and He will NOT be mocked! Blessed be the name of the Lord forever.)
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To: basil

Post of the day! Thank you.


20 posted on 03/26/2011 5:11:48 PM PDT by don-o (He will not share His glory; and He will NOT be mocked! Blessed be the name of the Lord forever.)
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To: stevie_d_64
But you have to admire this guys guts...

He could have been shot,given these cops' attitude.

21 posted on 03/26/2011 5:11:59 PM PDT by luvbach1 (Stop Barry now. He can't help himself.)
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To: mnehring; All
It is my understanding that the audio and video were posted recently. Someone said the 23 of March. I do not know when the event recorded happened.

Several people on opencarry.org are saying that the person this happened to should contact an attorney. I agree with that.

Remember, this audio/video is starting to get some exposure. A large number of Philadelphia police will be watching and listening to it. They have access to this persons name and a considerable amount of personal information.

As they say, they know where he lives. He definitely needs to contact an attorney.

22 posted on 03/26/2011 5:13:43 PM PDT by marktwain
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To: MaxMax

I hope these thugs aren’t the best and the brightest that Philly has to offer. It makes it kind of hard to feel pround of cops when this kind of behavior is in the news.


23 posted on 03/26/2011 5:14:29 PM PDT by BOBWADE
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To: marktwain

There is a second part of audio - link right below the screen for part 1. Listening.


24 posted on 03/26/2011 5:17:24 PM PDT by don-o (He will not share His glory; and He will NOT be mocked! Blessed be the name of the Lord forever.)
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To: marktwain
"In Pennsylvania carrying a gun is not reasonable suspicion of a crime..."

Unless there is a camera rolling, open carry is all a cop needs to shoot you with impunity. He just claims the citizen pointed the gun at him. The only penalty is paid suspension while the shooting is "under investigation."

25 posted on 03/26/2011 5:22:13 PM PDT by UnwashedPeasant (Don't nuke me, bro)
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To: stevie_d_64

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=916_1301016025
story at link may be over this incident


26 posted on 03/26/2011 5:23:21 PM PDT by BOBWADE
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To: UnwashedPeasant

http://www.copblock.org/2187/mark-fiorino-nearly-shot-by-philly-pd-for-open-carrying/


27 posted on 03/26/2011 5:24:39 PM PDT by BOBWADE
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To: marktwain

The audio is definitely disturbing. On the other hand, I can’t help but wonder how he “just happened” to be recording it all. I don’t know a whole lot of folks that just idly wander around town with a voice activated recorder for the heck of it.

What I get from this is that the cop screwed up primarily by not knowing the law (and the apparent attempt to manufacture evidence). There is no way he should have had to call the DA’s office in a situation like this. Beyond that....there’s still part of the picture that’s missing for me.


28 posted on 03/26/2011 5:25:35 PM PDT by Tucsonican
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To: marktwain

1. Officer is paid by the city to carry a firearm

2. Officer does not know the laws he’s paid to enforce

3. City did not exercise good hiring judgement

4. A tort was committed, and this victim now owns the city, or a fraction thereof.


29 posted on 03/26/2011 5:26:52 PM PDT by gaijin
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To: stevie_d_64

The second amendment is crystal clear. Every law abiding american citizen has the absolute right to own and carry any firearm, anytime, anywhere, anyway they choose.


30 posted on 03/26/2011 5:28:06 PM PDT by exnavy (May the Lord bless and keep our troops.)
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To: BOBWADE
It makes it kind of hard to feel pround of cops when this kind of behavior is in the news.

Ya think? Every week there's some retard with a gun dragging his knuckles and bullying the citizenry. Every week.

Certainly there has to be some kind of policeman review board that is looking around Wisconsin, Ohio, etc and are beginning to see the taxpayers are waking up to the police scam.

Union thugs, all of them ,until the few come out and do the right thing. You know, like we ask the "good Moslems" to come out and say the right thing. Ain't gonna happen in either case. They'll protect the bad apples because all the apples eventually go bad. Lies of omission are still lies on the ears of God.

31 posted on 03/26/2011 5:28:14 PM PDT by Zuben Elgenubi
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To: Tucsonican

On all the open carry supportive websites , they advise you to get a recorder for your own safety, to record incidents just like this one.


32 posted on 03/26/2011 5:33:27 PM PDT by exnavy (May the Lord bless and keep our troops.)
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To: gaijin

Battery, Kidnapping.

I’m shocked they didn’t delete the evidence.

I’ve been robbed ONE time in my life, and it was by COPS —took the cash from my wallet.

Sounds like a lie, huh?


33 posted on 03/26/2011 5:36:18 PM PDT by gaijin
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To: hal ogen

“This officer obviously needs “further training”. “

No, this “officer” needs to be arrested and get crap beat out of him by the county constitutional sheriff you elected. You need a constitutional sheriff to protect yourself from pig fascist cops.

This isn’t rocket science: cops are pigs who obey orders from their Marxist masters. The elected sheriff listens to the voters via the ballot box and is the only proper peace officer for a free people.


34 posted on 03/26/2011 5:42:09 PM PDT by sergeantdave (The democrat party is a seditious organization and must be outlawed)
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To: sergeantdave

ping for later


35 posted on 03/26/2011 5:46:08 PM PDT by mick (Central Banker Capitalism is NOT Free Enterprise)
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To: marktwain

I strongly recommend that if you wish to open carry or concealed carry in a place where there is the *possibility* of “ignorant agitation” about it, it really helps to be proactive.

How to do this? Easy, if there is a neighborhood where you expect to hang out, print out a few single page “pamphlets”, and pass them out to local store managers. To let them know the law in as friendly a manner as possible.

This is called “insulating” them. Why? Because typically you will be visiting, and some “ignorant agitator” will notice your gun. The first thing they typically do is approach the store manager or employees.

If they do this, then the situation is defused. “Oh, it’s okay. It’s legal here, and I *know* him. Relax.”

And the same thing applies to policemen. Most of them have big gaps in what they are supposed to know about the law. So if you get the chance to chit-chat with them, and find out they are ignorant of gun laws, if you want to have a hassle-free time of it, you need to “insulate” the whole police department.

This is not hard at all. If you see a police sergeant or lieutenant, let them know that there seems to be a little “confusion” about current gun laws about open and concealed carry, so it would be a good idea to provide a little “refresher” information, to make sure all the officers are “on the same sheet of music”.

Again, you’re not in their face about it, but let the officer know that you are a legal gun carrier, and you want to avoid surprising anyone, who may not be up on “current changes”.


36 posted on 03/26/2011 5:47:32 PM PDT by yefragetuwrabrumuy
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To: yefragetuwrabrumuy

Let me paraphrase for you: “Gee, Mr Policeman, did you know I have a Constitutional right to carry a firearm, sir, just like you?”


37 posted on 03/26/2011 5:51:02 PM PDT by Zuben Elgenubi
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To: Tucsonican

Have you ever heard of the “Porcupine 411” organization? If you carry, or have ever had misgivings about police over-reach you should check them out. They offer the facility to “instantly” record your cellphone conversation providing a record of events.

Such records routinely disprove the allegations of arresting police officers who (for whatever reason) choose to submit reports that diverge from the truth.

http://porcupine411.com/


38 posted on 03/26/2011 5:52:31 PM PDT by rockrr ("Remember PATCO!")
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To: gaijin
Sounds like a lie, huh?

As someone beaten by cops (at age 16), no it doesn't sound like a lie at all...

39 posted on 03/26/2011 5:54:56 PM PDT by rockrr ("Remember PATCO!")
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To: stevie_d_64

I know.. He was very brave.. Especially when the cop told him to do it or he will (bleeping) shoot him.. Cops have a tough job and I’ve always defended them, but there seems to be a lot of ignorant, hothead, cowardice cops around now.. Wonder if this officer has shot any innocent canines.. That going around, too.


40 posted on 03/26/2011 5:58:14 PM PDT by divine_moment_of_facts (Give me Liberty.. or I'll get up and get it for myself!)
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To: marktwain

Any chance of going anywhere for this dude ended when he failed to get on his knees as directed. Obey at the time, take it up with someone else yourself, that is, request a supervisor come immediately. That’s what I do.


41 posted on 03/26/2011 5:58:21 PM PDT by at bay (My father was born with 28 ounces of flesh in 1924 then went on to become Mr. (Glenn) Holland.)
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To: marktwain

I’ve seen so many videos of cops escalating things. I wish there was a video of this.
Such a shame that the cops were using so much profanity even. They don’t know the law, escalate the situation, use profanity and then try to cover by changing stories. I realize they have a tough job. It is tough when they have to arrest the same crooks over and over because liberal judges keep putting people out on the streets. But it is gun owners and conservatives who respect cops the most. That is what is unfortunate.


42 posted on 03/26/2011 6:06:03 PM PDT by freemike ("Life is hard. It's harder if your stupid." Joyhn Wayne)
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To: marktwain

I love Florida. I went to a private range today for a church fundraiser. The cops got called because the neighbors reported some automatic fire. Probably from the class 3 weapons ‘legal’.

There were a whole bunch of people and a whole bunch of evil assault weapons. Even quite a few handguns worn on hips.

No swat team got called and the police had no problem walking into the mix.

P.S. MP5’s are cool and I want one!


43 posted on 03/26/2011 6:06:47 PM PDT by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: UnwashedPeasant

Cops don’t need an openly carried firearm to shoot you with impunity.


44 posted on 03/26/2011 6:08:29 PM PDT by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: rockrr

I’ve got to say, having listened to everything again and having read a couple of the links....I’m more happy than ever that I live in Arizona. I wouldn’t say that OC is common out here but I sure haven’t seen anyone freak out over it.

This whole thing started out bad. What the heck kind of cop starts out what should have been nothing more than a “field interview” with “Hey Junior!”? Must be a Philly thing.


45 posted on 03/26/2011 6:09:02 PM PDT by Tucsonican
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To: hal ogen
Americans...

This is a direct attack at the Constitution itself...

Sue the AHs., jail them and they will all understand as fast as hell they are not supposed to violate the law, but enforce it.

46 posted on 03/26/2011 6:09:46 PM PDT by Mayr Fortuna
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To: marktwain

My concealed carry permit was issued by the County Sheriff’s office and says “Commonwealth of Pennsylvania”. I had this conversation in Philadelphia with a fine gentleman dressed in blue. He was trying to tell me I cant do that in Philadelphia. I asked him if Philadelphia was now in South Jersey. He was a smart ass as was his buddy the dyke. I can imagine if I was open carrying, I may have gotten shot.

He eventually apologized.....It just took him a bit and cost his employer some loose change. He made my lawyer a very happy man.


47 posted on 03/26/2011 6:11:51 PM PDT by halfright (My presidents picture is in the dictionary, next to the word, "rectum".)
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To: gaijin

Conspiracy Against Rights, federal felony:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/usc_sec_18_00000241——000-.html


48 posted on 03/26/2011 6:13:45 PM PDT by OneWingedShark (Q: Why am I here? A: To do Justly, to love mercy, and to walk humbly with my God.)
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To: Zuben Elgenubi

Think diplomacy. As in, while some people think they can make a lot of money suing the police, I look at is as a case of spending the afternoon in the clink, then having to spend months in court, making money for my lawyer, when all I had to do was find out if the cops were ignorant, and help change that.

It’s the same with business owners and managers. A tsp of preparedness prevents a whole lot of heartburn.


49 posted on 03/26/2011 6:17:33 PM PDT by yefragetuwrabrumuy
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To: yefragetuwrabrumuy; All

“Think diplomacy. As in, while some people think they can make a lot of money suing the police, I look at is as a case of spending the afternoon in the clink, then having to spend months in court, making money for my lawyer, when all I had to do was find out if the cops were ignorant, and help change that.”

Where this has happened, in nearly every case that I know of, there already has been a significant attempt to educate the police.

I believe that the Philadelphia police department has already lost at least one lawsuit for this sort of behavior.


50 posted on 03/26/2011 6:34:56 PM PDT by marktwain
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