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CALIFORNIA: Bill aims to add state to popular-vote movement
San Francisco Chronicle ^ | 4/4/11 | Carla Marinucci, Chronicle Political Writer

Posted on 04/04/2011 7:43:16 AM PDT by SmithL

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To: SmithL
The legislators are part of a growing crowd of bipartisan backers of a nationwide campaign to elect presidents by popular vote.

The smaller states would still be forced to pay taxes, even though they have no representation?
Time for a bigger Tea Party.

21 posted on 04/04/2011 8:44:12 AM PDT by concerned about politics ("Get thee behind me, Liberal")
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To: Thane_Banquo

The states that have approved that stupid national-popular-vote “compact” won’t hand out their EVs based on the national popular vote unless enough states to encompass 270 EVs have signed on to the “compact.” Doesn’t make them any less idiotic, though.


22 posted on 04/04/2011 8:46:49 AM PDT by AuH2ORepublican (If a politician won't protect innocent babies, what makes you think that he'll protect your rights?)
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To: HenpeckedCon
What does Maine and Nebraska due with the two electoral votes they get from their Senators?

IIRC, they go to whom ever wins the popular vote state wide. I could be wrong, though.

23 posted on 04/04/2011 8:51:09 AM PDT by Turbo Pig (...to close with and destroy the enemy...)
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To: SmithL

California - “We vote to make San Francisco the capital of the universe! Well, we voted for it, so it must be real.”


24 posted on 04/04/2011 9:08:43 AM PDT by blueunicorn6 ("A crack shot and a good dancer")
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To: Thane_Banquo

It’ll backfire.

I think that Congress should pass a law that states that electoral college votes must be allocated based on only that state’s own votes, and cannot be tied to a national vote total.

That’s a fuzzy area Constitutionally, as states are allowed to allocate their EV’s as they wish. However, since they are trying to circumvent the very intent of the Founders, there might be some leeway here.


25 posted on 04/04/2011 9:10:03 AM PDT by RockinRight (C'mon people - enough with the FR circular firing squad.)
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To: SmithL

100% of graveyard voters support this plan


26 posted on 04/04/2011 9:13:56 AM PDT by RightGeek (FUBO and the donkey you rode in on)
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To: HenpeckedCon

Nebraska has three congressional districts.

Under a 1991 Nebraska law, whichever presidential candidate wins the individual congressional districts gets one electoral vote from each district.

Whichever candidate wins the statewide popular vote in Nebraska gets the other two electoral votes....the two electoral votes they get from their senators.

In 2008, McCain won two of Nebraska’s congressional districts as well as the statewide vote. He received four electoral votes from Nebraska. Obama won one congressional district in Omaha, and he, Obama, received one electoral vote from Nebraska.

Maine has two congressional districts. Same deal as Nebraska....the statewide winner of the popular vote receives the two electoral votes they get from their senators. Obama received a majority of the vote in both of Maine’s congressional districts, so he, Obama, received all four of Maine’s electoral college votes.

Maine and Nebraska are the only two states that divy up their electoral votes by congressional district.


27 posted on 04/04/2011 10:04:40 AM PDT by july4thfreedomfoundation (A Jimmy Carter got us a Ronald Reagan......A Barack Obama will get us a Sarah Palin)
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To: Gandalf_The_Gray

we’re already nothing but fly-over country.


28 posted on 04/04/2011 10:28:57 AM PDT by Rich21IE
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To: SmithL
Both the House and Senate are now elected directly.

It's R E A L L Y dumb to through POTUS into that mix too...less our Republican form of government cease to exist.

29 posted on 04/04/2011 10:55:20 AM PDT by Mariner (USS Tarawa, VQ3, USS Benjamin Stoddert, NAVCAMS WestPac, 7th Fleet, Navcommsta Puget Sound)
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To: SmithL

Tell the Dims to set a good example-get rid of superdelegates.


30 posted on 04/04/2011 10:57:16 AM PDT by tanuki (O-voters: wanted Uberman, got Underdog....)
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To: SmithL

a nation lost becuz the electorate is so dumb, they would vote to be conquered.


31 posted on 04/04/2011 10:57:48 AM PDT by NormsRevenge (Semper Fi ... Godspeed .. Monthly Donor Onboard .. Obama: Epic Fail or Bust!!!)
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To: SmithL
Republican Assemblyman Brian

Idiot. If he wants attention paid to California in a national election, he should work for proportional allocation of its electoral votes.

32 posted on 04/04/2011 10:59:56 AM PDT by denydenydeny (Power always thinks it has a great soul and vast views, beyond the comprehension of the weak-Adams)
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To: SmithL

You need a Constitutional Amendment to do this!

A bunch of big blue states are trying to set it up so as radical left wing candidates running for the White House will never lose.


33 posted on 04/04/2011 11:52:46 AM PDT by Tzimisce (Never forget that the American Revolution began when the British tried to disarm the colonists.)
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To: july4thfreedomfoundation
Personally I think the Maine-Nebraska plan makes a lot of sense. I suppose the all-or-nothing electoral college vote has been intended to maximize a state's clout, but the representative nature of the district based plan has a certain appeal. Every district would be equally important, unlike the current situation with tiny or homogeneous states being ignored or taken for granted.

The plan based on mimicking the national popular vote frankly sucks.

34 posted on 04/04/2011 1:16:56 PM PDT by hinckley buzzard
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To: july4thfreedomfoundation

I saw a report/study/analysis 6-10 years ago, possibly posted on FR, in which the ME/NE method was applied nationwide to all elections since 1960.

The outcome in the Presidential race remained the same for every election. But there were differences. Every landslide was still pretty much a landslide, but less so. If a candidate won 49 states under the existing method it was still a blowout, but the gap closed some because the losing candidate picked up a bunch of votes from either blue urban districts or red non-urban districts depending on which way the blowout swung.

There were two significant(interesting?) changes. Carter’s victory was the closest contest and Bush 2000 won handily.

So if every state adopted the ME/NE method both sides would be more fairly represented in the final tally, but large urban areas might lose the ability to throw the entire state into one column. (’Every state’ being the operative phrase.)

On another note:

There are two serious problems with moving to an NPV.

First, as many have noted in other postings, the obvious loss of representation for anyone outside the coastal states and the large urban areas.

Second, accumulated voter fraud. A few hundred or a couple thousand fraudulent votes in a heavily red district may have little or no affect on the outcome in that district, but it will get added to the ones generated everywhere else.

I read a statistical analysis of the 2000 Palm Beach County vote in which the author stated the typical error/spoilage rate for the type of butterfly ballot used in PBC was a fraction of a percent. The rate would have translated to about 1800 spoiled ballots. PBC had over 19,000. Sadly, but maybe revealing, this was not uncommon for PBC.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1054629/posts

As was pointed out in the article ballots of this type could be stacked up and punched en masse for a selected candidate and any ballot not cast for that candidate would become spoiled. Few locations in the country had anything even close to this volume of error/spoilage although Chicago typically has tens of thousands of ‘spoiled’ ballots. Repeatedly. (120,000 one year according to the article.)

It’s anybody’s guess as to how much of this is going on, and at the state and district levels the affect might be minimal. But at the national level it would be cumulative!

Dems love to point out that Gore won the popular vote, but that might not have been the case if fraudulent votes were removed and intentionally spoiled ballots were restored and any ignored votes were counted. (I believe some states do not bother counting absentee ballots if there is no chance of changing the outcome, but I could be wrong on that.)

My feeling is that anybody pushing for an NPV is counting on those two things: urban rule/dominance and fraud. Either that or they’re an idiot.


35 posted on 04/04/2011 2:17:45 PM PDT by highway61
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To: All
"very focused, very well-financed" effort to correct a process that he argues disenfranchises millions of American voters.

The parties nomination processes certainly disenfranchise millions. CA will have its presidential primary in June 2012 long after the determination has been made. Iowa and NH entitlement can go to hell.

Democrats only want to do away with the Electoral college because, historically, they've been the only party blocked by it: Hayes over Tilden in 1876 with 150,000 fewer votes, Cleveland had 100,000 more votes but lost reelection to Harrison in 1888. Harrison did lose in the 1892 rematch however. And then W came in with 540,000 fewer votes than Gore.

Democrat power is increasingly concentrated in urban areas, a problem magnified in CA where L.A. and the Bay Area control the state while millions of other Californians, outside those areas, suffer their failed politicians and failed policies.

This is precisely what the electoral college is designed to guard against.

36 posted on 04/04/2011 4:02:15 PM PDT by newzjunkey (Obama will be president until Fri, Jan 20, 2017.)
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To: Defend Liberty
The article doesn't include the fact the NPV movement is Unconstitutional. It requires a compact between the states. Article 1 Section 10 of the Constitution states "No state shall, without consent of Congress, enter into any agreement or compact with another state".
Amendment XII specifies Electors are to vote for President: "The person having the greatest number of votes for President, shall be President, if such a number be a majority of the whole number of Electors appointed"

Unfortunately both of your points might be effectively circumvented without violating the Constitution. Regarding your second point, as per Article II, "Each State shall appoint, in such manner as the Legislature may therof direct, a Number of Electors...". Hence there is nothing which prevents each state legislature from appointing Electors who will vote only for the candidate who has won a majority of the national popular vote.

Your first point is stronger, but it still only requires that a majority of Congress consent to the compact. Whereas a Constitutional Amendment would require a 2/3 majority of both houses of Congress plus ratification by 3/4 of the states. As long as Republicans either control the House or have enough votes to filibuster in the Senate, then Congress is unlikely to approve such a compact. (And it's possible that only a majority of the Senate would be needed if they tried to insert it into the budget reconciliation process.) But as soon as Democrats gained total control of both houses they could approve the compact. (Although this won't necessarily break down along strictly partisan lines. Some Democratic Senators from small states could find it politically impossible to vote in favor of the compact.)

So the NPV movement is actually a very clever end-run around the otherwise impossible task of getting 2/3 of the Senate plus enough small states to ratify a Constitutional Amendment for electing Presidents by popular vote. There's a reasonable probability that eventually enough states will pass the measure to total 270 electoral votes. I certainly expect California's Democrat-dominated legislature to re-pass it, and this time a Democrat governor is likely to sign it.

37 posted on 04/04/2011 5:45:23 PM PDT by dpwiener
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To: DBrow; SmithL
This will save lots of money. If this passes everywhere, then politicians need to campaign in only a dozen cities and perhaps seven counties.

This will skew the balance of power toward the urban consumers and away from the rural producers.

38 posted on 04/04/2011 8:30:26 PM PDT by thecodont
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To: SmithL

There is no reason that California can’t opt to split it’s electoral votes in direct proportion to the popular votes. Other states do that. Nebraska and Maine do that.

There is no reason for California to screw up the rest of teh states. Just opt to split the state’s electoral votes per the popular vote.


39 posted on 04/04/2011 9:30:18 PM PDT by Freedom_Is_Not_Free (Don't confuse Obama's evil for incompetence.)
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To: dpwiener
Unfortunately both of your points might be effectively circumvented without violating the Constitution. Regarding your second point, as per Article II, "Each State shall appoint, in such manner as the Legislature may therof direct, a Number of Electors...". Hence there is nothing which prevents each state legislature from appointing Electors who will vote only for the candidate who has won a majority of the national popular vote.

States have always been able to choose their electors. Your scenario obviously has not been an issue for more than 220 years despite the country incrementally moving towards increasing socialism otherwise the socialists wouldn't be pushing the National Popular vote. It's less likely your scenario will occur in the future with the rise of the Tea Party movement ensuring at least an overwhelming majority of states will not become socialist to the extent of selecting a majority or all socialist electors.

Your first point is stronger, but it still only requires that a majority of Congress consent to the compact

A local radio station in my area interviewed a state Senator yesterday regarding the NPV. The Senator made the point this would likely go before SCOTUS as it would violate the Constitution thereby dragging out the issue for years.
40 posted on 04/05/2011 4:30:10 AM PDT by Defend Liberty
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