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Deadline Nears On BATFE Shotgun Ban Comments
NRA-ILA ^ | April 08, 2011 | NA

Posted on 04/12/2011 5:44:24 PM PDT by neverdem


·11250 Waples Mill Road ·   Fairfax, Virginia 22030    ·800-392-8683

 
Deadline Nears On BATFE Shotgun Ban Comments
 
Friday, April 08, 2011
 

As we reported on Jan. 28, May 1 is the deadline for public comments concerning a shotgun importation ban that has been proposed by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives. A working group within the BATFE has recommended that any shotgun (semi-automatic, pump-action or any other) that has any one of 10 specific features should be banned from importation, on the grounds that such shotguns are not “generally recognized as particularly suitable for a readily adaptable to sporting purposes.”

The features in question are a folding, telescoping, or collapsible stock; a magazine of over five rounds or a drum magazine; a flash suppressor or a muzzle brake that also suppresses flash; an integrated rail system other than on top of the receiver or barrel; a light enhancing device; a forward pistol grip or similar protruding part; an “excessive” weight of over 10 pounds; an “excessive bulk” of over three inches width and/or over four inches depth; a bayonet lug; or “a grenade-launcher mount.”

The working group considers “sporting purposes” to be limited to hunting, skeet, trap and sporting clays, but not to include practical shotgun matches or recreational target shooting. To have considered practical matches, the working group said, could have led to conclusions that would undercut the BATFE’s 1989 and 1998 bans on the importation of semi-automatic rifles, and its 1993 ban on the importation of various semi-automatic pistols. The working group also indicated a reluctance to accept practical matches because they test defensive firearm skills, which the working group believes are of military and police orientation.

Since the law conditions a firearm’s ability to be imported on whether it is “generally recognized” as meeting the law’s sporting purpose test, it is important that the BATFE hear from members of the general public. Particularly relevant will be the comments of people who use shotguns equipped with one or more of the features for hunting or any form of competitive or recreational target shooting, and people who adapt such shotguns to a sporting purpose by simple modifications, such as attaching or removing a flashlight, attaching or removing a forward grip, or installing or removing a magazine extension or magazine plug.

Comments to the BATFE may be submitted by e-mail to shotgunstudy@atf.gov, or by fax to (202) 648-9601, and must be received by May 1, 2011.  Faxed comments may not exceed 5 pages.  All comments must include name and mailing address.



Find this item at: http://www.nraila.org/Legislation/Federal/Read.aspx?id=6576


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; Extended News; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: atf; banglist; batfe; shotgunban
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1 posted on 04/12/2011 5:44:30 PM PDT by neverdem
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To: neverdem

Anyone who still does not have everything they think they will need in the future is really nuts.


2 posted on 04/12/2011 5:45:52 PM PDT by GlockThe Vote (GO TRUMP!!!!!!!!!!)
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To: neverdem

Holy shit! Say goodbye to any new Saiga shotguns!!!!!

Might have to get another one, if the prices haven’t yet gone to the Moon.....


3 posted on 04/12/2011 5:47:15 PM PDT by KoRn (Department of Homeland Security, Certified - "Right Wing Extremist")
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To: neverdem

Since New York State already bans centerfire rifles for hunting except in the extreme northern part of the state, all they will allow for deer and bear are shotguns.
The BATFE needs to be disbanded. It serves no useful purpose other than to enforce liberal agenda.


4 posted on 04/12/2011 5:50:34 PM PDT by BuffaloJack (Obama did not learn incompetence; he was born to it.)
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To: KoRn

I’ve heard Saiga were being stopped at the border because their import permit was denied.


5 posted on 04/12/2011 5:50:46 PM PDT by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: KoRn

Prices have gone to the moon already.

I have seen a few fair used prices though.


6 posted on 04/12/2011 5:54:11 PM PDT by mylife (OPINIONS ~ $ 1.00 HALFBAKED ~ 50c)
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To: neverdem
Did someone in the obumbum administration miss the latest gun case out of the US Supreme Court:

McDonald v. Chicago involved a 2nd Amendment challenge to a Chicago ordinance that essentially banned private handgun ownership in the city.

In 2008, a divided Supreme Court, in District of Columbia v. Heller , struck down similar District of Columbia legislation on the grounds that it violated an individuals 2nd Amendment right to keep and bear firearms for lawful uses such as self-defense in one’s home. But the Court declined to say whether this 2nd Amendment right applies to the states and local governments and not just the District of Columbia, which is under federal jurisdiction. The Court answered this question in McDonald.

In a five-four split decision, the McDonald Court held that an individual’s right to keep and bear arms is incorporated and applicable to the states through the 14th Amendment's Due Process Clause. Writing for the majority, Justice Alito observed: “It is clear that the Framers and ratifiers of the Fourteenth Amendment counted the right to keep and bear arms among those fundamental rights necessary to our system of ordered liberty” (p. 31). “The Fourteenth Amendment makes the Second Amendment right to keep and bear arms fully applicable to the States. ” In a separate concurring opinion, Justice Thomas wrote that the 2nd Amendment is fully applicable to states because the right to keep and bear arms is guaranteed by the 14th Amendment as a privilege of American citizenship.

The Court did not rule on the constitutionality of the gun ban, deciding instead to reverse and remand the case for additional proceedings. However, the courts decision on the 2nd Amendment makes it clear that such bans are unconstitutional. But, as it held in Heller, the Court reiterated in McDonald that the 2nd Amendment only protects a right to possess a firearm in the home for lawful uses such as self-defense. It stressed that some firearm regulation is constitutionally permissible and the 2nd Amendment right to possess firearms is not unlimited. It does not guarantee a right to possess any firearm, anywhere, and for any purpose.

The dissenting judges argued that the right to own guns was not “fundamental” and therefore states and localities should be free to regulate or even ban them. They said the Heller decision on which the Court relied heavily was incorrect and even if correct, they would not have extended its applicability to states.

So the BATFE argument that a shotgun not suitable for "sports" is a red herring and has no standing in law> I won't get into the HELLER case:

7 posted on 04/12/2011 5:54:11 PM PDT by paratrooper82 (We are kicking Ass in Afghanistan, soon we will be home to kick some more Asses in Congress!)
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To: neverdem

I wonder if “sport” can be extended to hunting liberals?


8 posted on 04/12/2011 5:55:19 PM PDT by rockrr ("Remember PATCO!")
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To: GlockThe Vote

I guess I missed that part of the Second Amendment about the “sporting purposes “———————

When do we put a stop to this shit?


9 posted on 04/12/2011 5:58:37 PM PDT by Segovia (Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.)
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To: neverdem

10 posted on 04/12/2011 5:59:07 PM PDT by Iron Munro ("Our country's founders cherished liberty, not democracy." -- Ron Paul)
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To: KoRn

Looks like if you’re careful you can still find them for ~650


11 posted on 04/12/2011 5:59:36 PM PDT by rockrr ("Remember PATCO!")
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To: KoRn
Look at this crazy ****!
12 posted on 04/12/2011 5:59:44 PM PDT by mylife (OPINIONS ~ $ 1.00 HALFBAKED ~ 50c)
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To: rockrr

Oops - link didn’t carry...

http://www.ebang.com/guns_for_sale/-/saiga_12/0/


13 posted on 04/12/2011 6:00:58 PM PDT by rockrr ("Remember PATCO!")
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To: BuffaloJack

Gee who told us about the dangers of the atf in the 90’s? He subsequently was put to death after enacting revenge on what he saw was a hostile fbi atf.


14 posted on 04/12/2011 6:01:06 PM PDT by Stayfrosty
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To: neverdem

“generally recognized as particularly suitable for a readily adaptable to sporting purposes.”

For the record...I just re-read the Second Amendment. I don’t find that exception in there...ANYWHERE.

BATFE needs to be eliminated. Defund them.


15 posted on 04/12/2011 6:02:08 PM PDT by PubliusMM (RKBA; a matter of fact, not opinion. 01-20-2013: Change we can look forward to.)
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To: mylife

WOW!!! I got mine brand new for about $600 around 2 years ago. That’s nearly a 50% increase!

Hopefully the accessories won’t start going up too.


16 posted on 04/12/2011 6:02:36 PM PDT by KoRn (Department of Homeland Security, Certified - "Right Wing Extremist")
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To: rockrr
I wonder if “sport” can be extended to hunting liberals?

It's rapidly getting to that point.

But I think "duty" would fit better, don't you think?

17 posted on 04/12/2011 6:03:19 PM PDT by Gritty (Washington no longer has a government; rather, it has a gangster regime - Jeffrey Kuhner)
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To: neverdem
Insane. How many millions of importable shotguns have 7 round tube mags?

And the sporting test: Practical shooting is not a sport now?

Motherhuggers, all.

18 posted on 04/12/2011 6:03:45 PM PDT by Lazamataz (The Democrat Party is Communist. The Republican Party is Socialist. The Tea Party is Capitalist.)
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To: GlockThe Vote
Well I guess you have it all figured out.....

Let me know what you think "everything they think they will need" means exactly.

TIA

19 posted on 04/12/2011 6:04:01 PM PDT by Osage Orange (I knew what I was feeling, but what was I thinking!)
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To: driftdiver

Benelli M4 import paperwork is being denied as well.


20 posted on 04/12/2011 6:07:45 PM PDT by Spktyr (Overwhelmingly superior firepower and the willingness to use it is the only proven peace solution.)
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To: KoRn

Gettem now

Mike had them for $75 around 12/15/10

http://www.mdarms.com/


21 posted on 04/12/2011 6:07:55 PM PDT by mylife (OPINIONS ~ $ 1.00 HALFBAKED ~ 50c)
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To: KoRn

Saiga 12s used to be $350 before Obama


22 posted on 04/12/2011 6:10:49 PM PDT by mylife (OPINIONS ~ $ 1.00 HALFBAKED ~ 50c)
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To: Lazamataz

My dad’s Winchester Defender 1200 carries 8 rounds, 9 if you load one in the chamber first.


23 posted on 04/12/2011 6:13:07 PM PDT by SkyDancer (For the Left It's far easier for them to preach tolerance than practice tolerance.)
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To: neverdem

Many great evils arrive with many small steps.


24 posted on 04/12/2011 6:15:49 PM PDT by dog breath
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To: KoRn

Promag has drums for $90

http://www.thecountryshed.com/high_capacity_mags.htm


25 posted on 04/12/2011 6:16:41 PM PDT by mylife (OPINIONS ~ $ 1.00 HALFBAKED ~ 50c)
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To: neverdem
Molon labe baby!
26 posted on 04/12/2011 6:17:35 PM PDT by JDoutrider
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To: Segovia

Evils often arrive with many small steps.


27 posted on 04/12/2011 6:19:03 PM PDT by dog breath
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To: neverdem

of course those things are needed for sporting purposes, for shooting cans....etc..


28 posted on 04/12/2011 6:19:51 PM PDT by rolling_stone ( *this makes Watergate look like a kiddie pool*)
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To: rockrr

My problem is that our money is traveling in the WRONG direction.!!

“Saiga 12 gauge,made by Izhmash in Russia”


29 posted on 04/12/2011 6:23:40 PM PDT by B4Ranch (Allowing Islam into America is akin to injecting yourself with AIDS to prove how tolerant you are .)
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To: neverdem

sfl


30 posted on 04/12/2011 6:27:18 PM PDT by phockthis
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To: B4Ranch

I agree with you and I’d love to buy one of these but they only come in full-auto and the feds won’t let me have one!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hhstuvzMiB0


31 posted on 04/12/2011 6:30:59 PM PDT by rockrr ("Remember PATCO!")
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To: neverdem

Any American made versions of these, or are they banned under different regs? Not saying I like these unconstitutional regs, but exploring work-arounds...


32 posted on 04/12/2011 6:34:23 PM PDT by piytar (Godwin's rule is null and void. If you don't know what I mean, you aren't paying attention...)
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Comment #33 Removed by Moderator

To: neverdem

The 2nd Amendment is about the violent overthrow of the government. It is not about hunting or thieves( common, not political ).


34 posted on 04/12/2011 6:43:42 PM PDT by Leisler (Our debts are someone's profit. Follow the money, the vig.....)
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To: Iron Munro

The 2A is not about stopping thugs, it is about stopping tyrants.


35 posted on 04/12/2011 6:51:57 PM PDT by Red in Blue PA (Let's apply the "reasonable man" standard to gun laws. How many would stand?)
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To: mylife
"Mike had them for $75 around 12/15/10"

Yeah, I took advantage of that deal! I've always had great experiences purchasing from MD, and their stuff is rock solid!

36 posted on 04/12/2011 6:53:11 PM PDT by KoRn (Department of Homeland Security, Certified - "Right Wing Extremist")
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To: KoRn

Yes.
He makes a quality product.


37 posted on 04/12/2011 6:55:04 PM PDT by mylife (OPINIONS ~ $ 1.00 HALFBAKED ~ 50c)
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To: neverdem
Some more BS from the feds. My Moss 500 Rolling Thunder falls against the rules in the proposed ban and is designed for home defense. Like the other "assault weapon" bans they don't like it because it looks scary.


38 posted on 04/12/2011 7:18:17 PM PDT by digital-olive
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To: GlockThe Vote

We’re working on it. Trying to get what we need as quickly as we can.


39 posted on 04/12/2011 7:49:08 PM PDT by HushTX (If the best defense is a good offense, it's a good thing I'm really offensive.)
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To: rockrr

“I wonder if “sport” can be extended to hunting liberals?”

I’d be willing if there was an unlimited bag and possession limit...


40 posted on 04/12/2011 8:20:46 PM PDT by 43north (BHO: 50% black, 50% white, 100% RED)
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To: neverdem
Remember the "Assault Rife" Ban?

It listed items on a rife that would cause it to be designated an "Assault Rifle".

This is nothing more than the beginning of the ban on shotguns.

It lists items any one ( 1 ) of which would deny importation.

An example: a flash suppressor or a muzzle brake that also suppresses flash;

Most shotguns made today use screw in choke tubes.

Any screw in choke tube that has ports or is ventilated could easy be designated to be a flash hider.

a light enhancing device;

A Leupold Scope or an Aim Point?

an integrated rail system other than on top of the receiver or barrel;

A Cantilever barrel for your deer hunting slug gun?

an “excessive” weight of over 10 pounds;

Most 10 ga Side by Side double barrel shotguns weigh between 10 and 12 lbs. BTW many of them are made in Spain.

Death by a thousand paper cuts.

Ban importation, then ban domestic production, then ban possession.

Worry about your Saiga if you like.

BATF wants all your Mossbergs, Remingtons and Winchesters.

41 posted on 04/12/2011 8:42:06 PM PDT by TYVets (Pure-Gas.org ..... ethanol free gasoline by state and city)
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To: rockrr
I wonder if “sport” can be extended to hunting liberals?

No. Hunting anything dumber than a turkey isn't considered "sporting".

42 posted on 04/12/2011 9:08:14 PM PDT by Still Thinking (Freedom is NOT a loophole!)
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To: rockrr

If you need one that bad, pay the $200 tax and get one. Myself, I have no desire to be a grey haired mercenary with a full auto weapon. The Mrs. is very handy with her Benelli and I can hold my own with my little S&W or the Mossburg. So I figure we’ve got the house covered OK. The rest of the world can be someone else’s project to be concerned about.


43 posted on 04/12/2011 9:23:52 PM PDT by B4Ranch (Allowing Islam into America is akin to injecting yourself with AIDS to prove how tolerant you are .)
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To: Still Thinking
Now that's funny! Here's your reward:

Photobucket

44 posted on 04/12/2011 9:56:49 PM PDT by rockrr ("Remember PATCO!")
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To: wardaddy; Joe Brower; Cannoneer No. 4; Criminal Number 18F; Dan from Michigan; Eaker; Jeff Head; ...
Second Amendment Special!

Urge Your Representative To Cosponsor H.R. 822, The National Right to Carry Reciprocity Act Of 2011

Grassley Questions Whether ATF Tried to Thwart Gunrunning Probe

Obama's Gun Guru: A Profile of An Uncooperative, Ineffectual Policy Non-Entity

Constitutional Refuseniks(Oathkeepers) Very interesting read & thread

45 posted on 04/12/2011 10:23:37 PM PDT by neverdem (Xin loi minh oi)
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To: neverdem

I suppose an e-mail to the effect that “You BATFE thugs are domestic enemies of the Constitution” would win a person an all-expense-paid cruise to Lisbon aboard a Portugese Man o’ War.


46 posted on 04/13/2011 12:15:28 AM PDT by dsc (Any attempt to move a government to the left is a crime against humanity.)
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To: Iron Munro

And it is MAINLY talking about the thugs in government. Although back in the day, protection from Indians, animals and the bad guy was also a consideration - but a secondary one.


47 posted on 04/13/2011 12:52:14 AM PDT by 21twelve ( You can go from boom to bust, from dreams to a bowl of dust ... another lost generation.)
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To: PubliusMM
BATFE needs to be eliminated. Defund them.

Agreed. And if SCOTUS keeps up their weasel-wording sh*t about 2A, Congress should take 2A issues away from their jurisdiction permanently. Unfortunately, such a move would be statutory only, and could be repealed if the 'Rats/Statists/Stalinists lied their way back into the majority.

48 posted on 04/13/2011 1:00:50 AM PDT by lentulusgracchus (Concealed carry is a pro-life position.)
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To: digital-olive
Like the other "assault weapon" bans they don't like it because it looks scary.

Bzzzzzztt! -- Sorry, FRiend, incorrect answer.

They don't like it because you have it.

49 posted on 04/13/2011 1:10:19 AM PDT by lentulusgracchus (Concealed carry is a pro-life position.)
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To: KoRn
*** Holy shit! Say goodbye to any new Saiga shotguns!!!!! Might have to get another one, if the prices haven’t yet gone to the Moon..... ***

They have. I checked on one last week.
Didn't feel like applying for a 2nd Mortgage to get it.

As it is they're rarer than a full set of teeth in West Virginia.
(no offense to FReepers from WV)

50 posted on 04/13/2011 4:59:11 AM PDT by Condor51 (The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits [A.Einstein])
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