Skip to comments.Trump Warns Cantor Not To Give Up Birther Fight: 'People Love This Issue'
Posted on 04/16/2011 3:49:09 PM PDT by UniqueViews
"I don't think he is really serious when we see a campaign launch on the birther issue," Cantor said.
On Friday, Karl Rove told Fox News Trump is a "joke candidate" because of his birther-centric media cavalcade.
"It's amazing," Trump said. "He's so against me, because I am questioning. All I want to see is the guy's birth certificate."
(Excerpt) Read more at tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com ...
What is COD
Compulsive Obsessive Disorder?
Wrong and Dead Wrong.
I have gotten all three of the above on my COLB (says "Certificate of Life Birth" at the top), and so have my 4 kids. I never even knew there was a "long form" until last year, in fact, excepting a handful of internet posted images, I have never seen a "long form" birth certificate in my life.
“What is COD”
Christine O’Donnell ,You forgot Roves ugly rant on her?
Because a school document found in Indonesia in 2008, and the divorce records of Stanley Ann Soetoro in Hawaii, show that Lolo Soetoro adopted Barry as his son.
The original BC is sealed. The existing BC should be an adoption BC (Butterdezillion believes Obama amended it sometime before the election, 2008).
The school record lists Lolo Soetoro as Barry’s father; religion Muslim; citizenship Indonesian.
At the time Barry attended school in Indonesia, it was a dictatorship. Officials regularly went around to the schools to exam records and ensure only citizens attended public schools. (This information is from someone who lived in Indonesia at the time.) He could have dual citizenship until age 19.
Soebarkha “Barry” Soetoro (aka Barak H. Obama II) has an immigration file, one that is blocked on order of Obama himself, at Homeland Security.
Note: native born citizens do not have immigration records, period.
Something smells rotten.
Perot didn’t even run in the Republican primary. I think Trump will win some states in the Republican primary. But we will see.
retirement in place
“You should have seen Rove on fox last night . It was great . He went off on trump , at one point his voice went up 3 octaves to full screech mode . Today Trump fires back by saying Rove and Bush gave us the O. I love this ! If Rove thinks Trump Is O’Donnell , he is dumber than he looks.”
LOL,I want to see him clog up up and blow out.
I still waiting for that Cantor,Romney, Jeb Bush listening tour. I know they had one 20 minute lamefest in a Arlington pizza joint.
Agree 100% with that assessment. The NBC angle is a red herring, a distraction. And, in the end, either irrelevant or unproductive.
There are better lines of investigation.
A constitutional requirement is not a red herring.
save your keyboard the wear and tear. It seems pointless to even engage people here with alternative ideas. Not like the old days.
Better admit COD was the best candidate, All talking Heads are idiots, and do not disagree with anyone.
(I am supposed to point out my sarcasm here.)
“I have gotten all three of the above on my COLB (says “Certificate of Life Birth” at the top) I have never seen a “long form” birth certificate in my life.”
You may be just parsing words.
I have never heard of a COLB, but WOULD have assumed it to be the true and original birth certificate, as issued in the hospital, or a certified copy thereof.
It may vary from state to state.
I am from Tennessee, and first obtained my birth certificate
copies for my passport, and a few years ago, for social security.
The second time, it was obtained by my daughter, as I was in Europe when applying.
Both times, it was a true copy of my hospital issued certificate, but superimposed on a 8x10 form with all the frilly edges, and with an attached seal of another color.
My original is also somewhat similar to a REAL Hawaiian birth certificate, as have been posted on various internet sites, but with more details about mother and father, including where they were and when born, and occupation.
I just pulled mine out.
The original is called a “Certificate of Live Birth”
At the bottom of the new form that it is copied onto,
it says “Certification of vital record”.
Being a Natural-Born Citizen is a constitutional requirement. But, exactly, what does that mean?
You have your opinion.
Others have their opinion.
And, so far, the courts have no opinion. And they ain't about to give one in the current circumstances.
Don't you think that, if having a father who was of another nationality, clearly disqualified one for the office of the President, somebody would've brought up the question prior to the election?
That the NBC angle is such a johnny-come-lately to the entire discussion suggests just how relevant it is.
It's a dead end.
Precisely. so far as Indonesia was concerned, Obama could've been a full-fledged Indonesian citizen.
But that would cut no ice regarding his American citizenship. At the time, we didn't recognize dual citizenship and -- if he was born in the USA -- he was an Ammerican citizen. He couldn't lose his American citizenship by virtue of being adopted and declared an Indonesian citizen as a minor.
The only relevant issue in this dispute is where he was born.
Indeed, even if he used an Indonesian passport to gain admission and scholarship funds from Occidental, I doubt that would negate his American citizenship.
It would constitute criminal fraud, however.
“The NBC angle is a red herring, a distraction. And, in the end, either irrelevant or unproductive.”
You totally miss the point !!!!
The true birth certificate IS THE KEY to the eligibility issue.
It obviously has information that would disqualify him.
I doubt that the Obama handlers had any thought at all
that some clever people would question the COLB and notice the flaws.
“if he was born in the USA — he was an Ammerican citizen. He couldn’t lose his American citizenship by virtue of being adopted and declared an Indonesian citizen as a minor.”
You totally miss the point... “NATURAL BORN”
Your use of the expression, “dead end” is apropos on this topic.
Okie, some people who did bring it up before the election received threats, even death threats.
The meaning of “natural born citizen” has been known for centuries. Going back through the records of Congress and the many floor debates thereon, it appears frequently.
The Law of Nations is mentioned is Article I, section 8, of our Constitution, so the framers certainly did know that document. That they would reference “natural born Citizen” as an eligibility requirement to be President in Article II, section 1, from that same document shouldn’t be construed as the framers were ignorant of its meaning: born in a country of citizen parents.
Others have a different opinion.
Many have no opinion -- including the courts.
You cannot assume the courts will agree with your opinion.
As to Article I, Section 8...
To define and punish Piracies and Felonies committed on the high Seas, and Offenses against the Law of Nations
That is most assuredly not a cite of Vattel's "Law of Nations". It's a boilerplate expression -- like "Law of the Sea". The capitalization is an artifact of the time -- when nouns were capitalized, as in German.
Actually, using a foreign passport over the age of 18 would disqualify him. Sven Magnussen has posted relevant laws and statues, in effect at the time (and maybe still, I can’t remember). Sven also quoted laws or statues or whatever they are detailing exactly how a child adopted by a foreigner could indeed renounce and officially lose US citizenship. So with 0h0m0, everything is up in the air. He may not be a US citizen of any kind at all.
Until all documentation is made public and vetted legally, no one knows what the deal is with him - what is his legal name, legal citizenship state - “natural born” or even “regular”, or even who his parents are. What to speak of his birth place.
“...He [Obama] couldn’t lose his American citizenship by virtue of being adopted and declared an Indonesian citizen as a minor.”
The above is true, as far as it goes.
But Obama stated when he entered Congress for the first time, that until then he had never had a passport, a statement patently FALSE.
He traveled between Indonesia and Hawaii frequently. As his mother’s passport records indicate, he did not travel on her passport. So he must have had his own, and as Lolo’s son it would have been an Indonesian passport. Since he could be a dual citizen until age 19 that wouldn’t normally be a problem.
Neil Sankey, a PI, discovered that the SSNs Obama used while at Occidental College both began with 999-XX-XXXX prefixes. These are reserved for use by foreign students studying in the U.S. and receiving government financial assistance. This would indicate that Obama, who used the name Soetoro while at Oxy, was considered a foreigner.
But in 1981 Obama traveled to Pakistan and India. He does not reappear until sometime late in 1982 in New York City.
Did he use an Indonesian passport as an adult? That would require repudiating all nationalities save one, and swearing allegience only to Indonesia.
Which brings me to the issue of his immigration records.
Pamela Barnett is Lt.Col Lakin’s attorney. She discovered that Barry Soetoro has an immigration record with Homeland Security. It is blocked and she hasn’t been allowed access.
If he was a native born citizen, why would he have immigration records?
Rove, Krauthammer Kristol and a few others who have polluted and effectively destroyed Fox News have to be made to understand, in no uncertain terms, that they are irrelevant, that they speak for no one but what is left of their “Cocktail Party” branch of the Republican Party. They are old news with no understanding of how politics changed the day that Øbama began his run for the Presidency.
Fox News used to be on my tv all day long. Now it is only on when I know in advance that someone I want to see will be on.
Since when did you become an expert on international law?
I was very concerned about Obama's lack of loyalty months before he was elected. America voters had to be soft as a grape to vote for this Obama with three Muslim names. He's an outsider. He is not an American. Plenty of white liberals hate American capitalism and worked to get him elected
“Since when did you become an expert on international law?”
I think Oki is one of the DU trolls from a few days ago.
Well, I studied International Law in college...a long time ago.
But the U.S. Constitution hardly qualifies as international law -- no matter how much Breyer and Ginsburg may want it. And it is common sense that tells us the Law of Nations in Section I, Article 8 isn't a citation of any sort.
And I'm not arguing beyond that. My point is to rid people of the notion that Indonesian citizenship as a child would automatically negate American citizenship from Obama -- if he was indeed born in America.
I don't dispute the rest of your reports.
Not if he wins the Republican nomination. Only if he runs independant. That’s what I’m waiting for to play out.
The NBC issue has been brought up in other elections, and it was brought up during the campaign for the 2008 elections. The Dims and the dominant media squashed it. You appear to agree with them. Is that the case?
You refer to Chester A. Arthur, I assume. The controversy with him, though, had to do with his place of birth -- not whether he was a "natural-born citizen". Was he born in Vermont -- at the time and place he claimed? Or was he born in Canada, a few months earlier.
There was no dispute concerning the nationality of his father: Everybody knew he was British. Yet, the NBC argument never rose to the point of relevance.
In any event, the whole controversy went nowhere -- and Arthur's birthplace was assumed to be Vermont.
and it was brought up during the campaign for the 2008 elections. The Dims and the dominant media squashed it.
Gee. By whom? And why didn't it even get any mention on this board? The entire fol-de-rol began with postings from Hillary supporters -- and, initially, it was solely concerned with Obama's place of birth.
You appear to agree with them. Is that the case?
I personally believe that the NBC argument is a red herring, a distraction, a dead end. Just because we have an opinion on what makes a citizen "natural-born" doesn't make it the law of the land. And that legal issue is not going to be resolved by the courts under the current circumtances.
All the time and effort wasted on the NBC argument would be better spent determining whether Obama was, in fact, born in the USA. Or, at the least, what there is on his birth certificate that he is hiding. That would actually mean something.
It was all over the place on this board. Numerous threads.
Now? Yes. A year ago? Yes.
In August-October, 2008, birth certificate concerns? Yes.
But I frankly don't recall a single post voicing the NBC issue.
Nor do I recollect a peep from any other source on this subject...until well after the election.
So, if there were exchanges on the subject, they must've been both rare and obscure.
Fact remains: the NBC angle is a dead-end. And it's sad to see people treating it as if it were a silver bullet.
Liar. Sorry. I’ve been following avidly the NBC research on FR since spring 2008.
What you say is absolutely false.
"But I frankly don't recall a single post voicing the NBC issue."
"Nor do I recollect a peep from any other source on this subject...until well after the election."
How are those "lies", LJ?
Think about it.
Leo Donofrio filed suit against the illegal placement of the British subject Obama on the New Jersey ballot before the election.
Hope this helps.
Uh - the election was in November 08.
Spring 08 was before the election.
I was reading obsessively about NBC stuff on FR in the spring of 08, which was, if you get out your calendar and count the months and stuff, before the election.
OK, I take you at your word.
I said I didn't recall any such threads. Birth certificate, yes. NBC, no.
No...Trump is no Ross Perot II. The times are different. People are sick and f'ing tired of politics as usual.
Hows Boener working out?
Is Trump the perfect conservative candidate? Clearly not. Apparently he's been registered as an R, an I and a D. Now an R again. He's a businessman, not a party guy, who has looked out for his interests. He has seen how devistating Barry is for business and America.
Is the eligibility issue the only one? Of course not. Does it matter? Only if you think the Constitution matters!!
Will he really run? Who knows.
He's clearly hitting a note with a large segment of the non lib population...check the polls Rove. And its almost exclusively re: the eligibility issue. Many people clearly are concerned about Article II, Section 1, Clause 5 of the Constitution...regardless of what the damned beltway (R)'s and state run media want you to think.
Either all of the Constitution matters...or none of it does.
Bravo to Trump for having the "nerve" to address the verboten issue!
It's stunning how many people in this country hide under their desks on this issue. Get a damn backbone already!
Listen for yourself and make up your own mind, but in this interview, Trump makes it clear he is reserving the right to run as an Independent. He said he would feel bad about it because he knows he would take votes away from Republicans, but nonetheless, he will not rule it out.
My problem with Trump has nothing to do with birtherism. I found it all very entertaining until he began to threaten to run as an Independent. I already committed to voting for him if by some weird series of events he ended up as the Republican Party nominee.
But I don't care who it is, I see a third party candidate as an enemy that must be destroyed.
You misunderstand. I love what Trump is doing on the BC issue.
But we can’t be naive and ignore who Trump really is, if he becomes the nominee.
He’s for universal healthcare, and if he is our nominee, we can say goodbye to our freedom forever.
We’re playing with fire.
The issue isnt so much BOs BC, but the citizenship of BOs father, whoever he might be. Maybe the BC could help with IDing him, but if he wasnt a US citizen, then BO is not a Natural Born Citizen, regardless of whether hes a US citizen or not. Two different classes of citizens.
Please...these comments are becoming Anti-Birther
There is no clear proof who Obama’s father is....hence we need the long form birth certificate.
For all we know, Barack, Sr may not be the father
Really tiring of those, even who mean well, for coming up with excuses for not getting the LF BC
What is wrong with a little competition?
The great thing about Trump is that he will make Romney, Huckster and all the mealy mouthed establishment candidates look like wimps, and they will get out early.
If Palin, Bachmann and Trump duke it out until the end, I think it will be good for the party, because they will go after Obama instead of each other.
If Trump goes 3rd party, it is only because the math of the Electoral College will work.
If the choice is between Romney, Trump and Obama, are you really going to vote Romney or the Huckster?
A lot of conservatives wont vote for Romney of Huckabee and they are the leaders of the pack right now.
Excellent post. And, I think the majority of FR would be in agreement with this.
Romney and Huckster are definitely not worth voting for.
Too many have these wild Conspiracy Theories about Donald Trump....it sounds like the Alex Jones show. Accoring to some “Donald Trump is working with George Soros, Al Gore, Vidkun Quisling, Ivan The Terrible, and Eric the Red, in turning America into a combover republic”
I know Donald Trump has had liberal tendencies in the past. Obviously, this did not matter to people who voted for George Soros-supported John McCain and Sarah Palin in 2008
Agree completely. The debates will be awesome and they'll tear the Won apart.
If there isn’t pressure toward his father’s citizenship (as I said in my first post, IF his BC shows a father), then you can take it to the bank that either there IS a LFBC or there WILL be one, and at the right moment, months from now, Obama will produce cit, and it will show that he was born in Hawaii.
That will be the end of it, and he will get a big boost in the polls, and it will be impossible to raise the issue of his father’s citizenship.
But remember, I mentioned the possibility that the LFBC doesn’t show a father. In fact, if that’s the case, it will allow Obama supporters to generate sympathy for Obama.
That page just shows the headline for me. Is that how it is for everybody?
The Newsy link is a video report that has an excerpt from the WSJ video.