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Six Roads to Dysfunctional Schools
Right Side News ^ | 4/21/2011 | Staff

Posted on 04/22/2011 8:37:56 AM PDT by IbJensen

Many wonder why American public schools are so dysfunctional.

This question is more easily answered than you might suppose.

Throughout the 20th century, the Education Establishment devised scores of seemingly sophisticated pedagogies. Aggressively sold as ways to make schools effective and students smarter, these celebrated methods invariably turned out to render education less effective and students more ignorant.

Let’s take a quick look at a half-dozen of the most famous concoctions. I predict you’ll have a startling realization: all of these things are counterproductive. Worse still, they seem to be that way by design.

1) PUBLIC SCHOOLS AND SELF-ESTEEM:

Consider a seemingly harmless and even appealing method called Self-Esteem. When educators claim that this new approach will lead to greater self-esteem, the public says, go ahead, surely everyone needs more of that! In practice, teachers are expected to give praise even when students don’t make an effort; students become complacent and less industrious. Even worse, you have a relentless pressure against making academic demands on children, because failure will damage their self-esteem. You see where this is going? Finally, the teacher says, “Hello, class! You’re wonderful.” That is all that can happen. The moment the teacher actually teaches, the self-esteem levels will drop, which cannot be tolerated. Self-Esteem, all by itself, can render a school null and void.

2) PUBLIC EDUCATION AND CONSTRUCTIVISM:

Constructivism’s basic claim is that children must invent their own new knowledge. A mountain of so-called “research” make this process sound as if it is wonderful, necessary, and inevitable. But we need to ask, how would children learn the names of the states or the important events of the American Revolution? Now you start to see the flaw: basic information can rarely be taught with Constructivism. A child might need hours or days to “construct” his way to a page of facts. The teacher must constantly nudge children toward their “discovery” of “new” knowledge, much as children are given hints to find Easter egg. In fact, these magical events won’t usually happen at all. Constructivism is vastly popular now in the public schools, a good explanation for why kids know so little.

3) PUBLIC EDUCATION AND THE ART OF MEMORIZATION:

The Education Establishment came up with two slogans that have been used relentlessly for more than 60 years: “Rote memorization is bad” and “They can look it up.” This gospel (which cuts across all subject and all grades) states that children shouldn’t bother retaining information. Let’s confront what the Education Establishment is actually saying here: students should have empty heads. (Testing is kept soft and subjective so that students are not often asked if they know or don’t know something.) Since the time of John Dewey, there was always a hostility toward teaching foundational knowledge in the first place. But demonizing memory is the easiest way to make sure that, should anything be taught, nobody can recall what it was.

4) COOPERATIVE LEARNING IN PUBLIC EDUCATION TODAY:

The whole point of Dewey’s collectivist theory is to create cooperative children. They work and play well together. The next step invariably was to put four or five children at little tables, to let them think of themselves as a group, not individuals. Work will be performed by the group. There was no individual achievement, only group achievement; no individual blame, only group blame. As a practical matter, children never learn how to think for themselves or act by themselves. They always have the shelter and comfort of being inside of a group. The better students carry the weaker students, and everybody’s grades are muddled. But that’s the point in the collectivist classroom.

5) PUBLIC EDUCATION AND NEW MATH / REFORM MATH / NATIONAL STANDARDS:

There are many separate curricula under those three headings, and yet they all have one thing in common: they mix advanced, complicated math with elementary arithmetic. The sales pitch is that children will learn to appreciate math at a higher level. The actual result is that children don’t learn to do basic arithmetic. The proper way to teach arithmetic is that children master the simple stuff (1+2=3), then move to the less simple, then to the intermediate, and so on. New Math and its intellectual descendants were failures, and were abusive to children. Learning long division is hard enough. Just imagine that the crazies at your school mix in base-eight, set theory, some Boolean algebra, geometry, and pre-trig. Result: almost nobody can do arithmetic in a confident, automatic way.

6) SIGHT-WORD READING IN THE PUBLIC EDUCATION AGENDA:

Focus on the central fact that English is a phonetic language, like Latin and French. Its alphabet and word forms were designed to quickly communicate phonetic information, that is, you see a b, B, b, a script b, or B in any of hundreds of typefaces), and your brain immediately knows: buh-. English words are so similar; and every word comes in many different forms: bright, BRIGHT, etc. It’s almost impossible for an ordinary human to memorize even 1,000 of these shifty little designs, never mind the 50,000+ word-shapes you need. But the Education Establishment pushed Whole Word relentlessly, claiming that children must memorize the English language one word at a time as graphic configurations. I would argue that Whole Word is prima facie impossible. Memorizing even a few hundred sight-words can take several years; so literacy happens very slowly. All the things that children used to learn in the first, second, third and fourth grades became impossible, not just reading but also geography, history, etc. Whole Word is, I believe, the official hoax of the Education Establishment. It’s the paradigm of bad education. It can’t work. It hurts children.

CONCLUSIONS

It’s good to acknowledge how clever, slinky and difficult-to-understand these six approaches are. The average parent doesn’t have a chance. I bet the average teacher has no clue that these things are toxic waste. Administered with love, they are still toxic. A library has been written extolling these methods. For me to debunk them in a paragraph is a tall order. But I’m hoping I can tempt you to linger over each analysis long enough to feel the contradiction, the sticking point, the sophistry that finally makes these things fall apart in the classroom.

John Dewey and all the people who succeeded him were avowed Socialists. They wanted to make a new world. and as the New York Times once observed in defense of Stalin’s starving the Ukraine into submission, if you want to make an omelet, you have to break a few eggs. Or a hundred million American kids.

The six gimmicks discussed could be called bait-and-switch. One thing is promised, something else is delivered. But I think these six are of a higher order, more like big-time magic acts. I’m thinking of the really good tricks where you stare in wonderment and stammer: how’d he do that?? Each of these things, we are told, is the best, most modern, most wonderful way to teach; but the kids inexplicably end up crippled and lobotomized. How’d the educators do that? When did it happen? The tiger was there, suddenly it’s gone. Like the kid’s future.

Coda: it’s crucial to get rid of these tricks. That’s the easiest, cheapest way to improve public education. Schools have to leave the indoctrination business, toss aside the gimmicks, and return to the education business. Teachers actually teach. Kids actually learn.

(See related essays on Improve-Education.org: “42: Reading Resources,” “45: The Crusade Against Knowledge,” “52: The Conspiracy Chronicles,” and others.)

Study American public education and you will probably reach a point where you are reluctant to look further; because you have started to sense just how perverse the field is, and how dumb and destructive many of its practices are.

Conversely, the easiest way to improve education is to rein in current bad practice.

Bruce Price - is the founder of Improve-Education.org, a lively intellectual site with articles on Latin, birds, Pavlov, phonics, sophistry, 1984, the assault on math, design, teaching science, why our educators do a bad job, and much more.


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Editorial; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: governmentschools; schools; skooles; skules
Schools have to leave the indoctrination business, toss aside the gimmicks, and return to the education business.

How to put a condom on a banana is hardly education. The skulls full of mush will then believe that they can have sexual relations as long as they have a banana and a condom with them.

1 posted on 04/22/2011 8:37:57 AM PDT by IbJensen
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To: IbJensen
I was a hold out on eliminating our public school system till recently when Glenn Beck pointed me in the direction of the "We are one" teacher's toolkit.

Teachers Toolkit (pdf)

It includes this handy student pledge form.

AS A STUDENT who believes in acting collectively and who supports workers’ right to bargain for good jobs and a better life, I am interested in doing one or more of the following (please check all that apply):

I want to connect with the union movement on my campus or in my community.

I want to help organize a teach-in like today’s for others on my campus or on a different campus.

I want to support workers’ organizing and collective bargaining struggles on my campus and in my community.

I want to learn about the AFL-CIO’s Organizing Institute programs. Please e-mail me information.

I would like to become a member of Working America, the community and student affiliate of the AFL-CIO. (www.workingamerica.org)

I would like to talk to someone about becoming an organizer for Working America.


When they start weaponizing the youth of America, the schools are beyond repair.
2 posted on 04/22/2011 8:46:24 AM PDT by cripplecreek (Remember the River Raisin! (look it up))
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To: IbJensen

Here it is in a nutshell: a politicized, politically correct educational establishment that teaches garbage in the interest of social engineering lies at fault. Which is why home-schooled kids typically do better by all objective measures.

Allow me to simplify this: teach crap, get crap. And that’s your problem right there.


3 posted on 04/22/2011 8:46:55 AM PDT by Noumenon ("How do we know when the Government is like that guy with the van and the handcuffs?" --Henry Bowman)
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To: IbJensen
The list is good, but woefully incomplete.

I would say that you could do all of these things but if we do not return to expelling problem students that improvement will be marginal.

I also will say that there is no way public institutions will be able to compete with home-school cooperatives running advanced curricula.

4 posted on 04/22/2011 8:47:32 AM PDT by MrEdd (Heck? Geewhiz Cripes, thats the place where people who don't believe in Gosh think they aint going.)
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To: IbJensen

What a clear, concise, and accurate summing up of several of education’s big problems!


5 posted on 04/22/2011 8:48:00 AM PDT by American Quilter (DEFUND OBAMACARE.)
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To: IbJensen

We should try and give high school seniors a 1958 graduation test and see how they do. It would be an eye opener as to how much they have learned. California only has, about, a 50% graduation rate and we are told they need more money? Amazing. We should also cut teachers pay every year that the graduation rate is below 80% and not allow them to dumb down the education to accomplish this. Also, tenure should go out the window.


6 posted on 04/22/2011 8:48:56 AM PDT by RC2
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To: cripplecreek

Watch these YouTubes of James Clavell’s (author of Shogun, Nobel House) short story, The Children’s Story. James Clavell saw the possibility of the re-education of children via the public schools as an issue back in the 1980’s.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6C1IV00LLDQ&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_5Va0b0tL1M&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ojxtz-9vSr8&feature=related


7 posted on 04/22/2011 8:49:37 AM PDT by ExTexasRedhead
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To: ExTexasRedhead

Many people don’t seem to grasp the significance of it but but the schools was where Hitler solidified his death grip on Germany. He weaponized the youth and put a little gestapo informer in every home.

The German people learned to fear their children with good reason.


8 posted on 04/22/2011 8:56:05 AM PDT by cripplecreek (Remember the River Raisin! (look it up))
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To: American Quilter

Forced busing destroyed America’s metropolitan schools. Everything else is just so much twaddle.


9 posted on 04/22/2011 8:56:10 AM PDT by chadwimc (Proud to be an infidel ! Allah fubar !!!)
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To: American Quilter

Yep. Let’s see.

1, I don’t do any group work. Students stand or fall on their own.

2, I drill. I want students to know stuff automatically. I try to give them mnemonics that will help their recall.

3, I break down new words using old words. That’s what phonics is all about.

So yeah, my students are starting to pick up that I teach differently. It took them 6 months but they are asking me why I am doing this.


10 posted on 04/22/2011 8:56:53 AM PDT by BenKenobi (Don't expect to build up the weak by pulling down the strong. - Silent Cal)
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To: RC2

The intentional dumbing down began with the socialist Dewey in the 30’s. All curricula was infected by the 50’s in the public schools....led to the sexual revolution in the 60’s....designed by the cultural Marxists Gramsci, Lukacs, Marcuse, etc.....(like Bill Ayers) . These evil individuals have been allowed to indoctrinate our children — kill the Christian paradigm and natural family—to destroy the individualism and self reliance that this paradigm had created—to create the atheist dysfunctional hedonism that we see today.

These Marxists have got to be kicked out of the elite circles that write curricula. Eakman writes about the evil methodologies which are designed to create hedonistic, self-indulgent atheists...who will be easily herded and controlled by totalitarianism.


11 posted on 04/22/2011 9:00:00 AM PDT by savagesusie
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To: MrEdd

There would probably be fewer behavior problems if the schools actually dropped the stupid programs that make students feel stupid.


12 posted on 04/22/2011 9:01:39 AM PDT by goldi (')
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To: IbJensen
The following are the words of Zacharias Montgomery, who had been denied a position in government because of his stand on the "public school question," in his 1886 Book entitled "Poison Drops in the United States Senate . . . ." Although his treatise dealt primarily with the public school question, the following remarks might be helpful to those who, today, consider themselves as TEA Partiers, or Taxed Enough Already candidates. Whether they win or lose, they will know that they have taken a stand for liberty.

Excerpts from Zacharias Montgomery:

"My countrymen, disguise the fact as we may, there is in this country to-day, and in both the political Parties, an element which is ripe for a centralized despotism. There are men and corporations of vast wealth, whose iron grasp spans this whole continent, and who find it more difficult and more expensive to corrupt thirty odd State Legislatures than one Federal Congress. It was said of Nero of old that he wished the Roman people had but one head, so that he might cut it off at a single blow. And so it is with those moneyed kings who would rule this country through bribery, fraud, and intimidation.

"It is easy to see how, with all the powers of government centered at Washington in one Federal head, they could at a single stroke put an end to American liberty.

"But they well understand that before striking this blow the minds of the people must be prepared to receive it. And what surer or safer preparation could possibly be made than is now being made, by indoctrinating the minds of the rising generation with the idea that ours is already a consolidated government ; that the States of the Union have no sovereignty which is not subordinate to the will and pleasure of the Federal head, and that our Constitution is the mere creature of custom, and may therefore be legally altered or abolished by custom.

"Such are a few of the pernicious and poisonous doctrines which ten millions of American children are today drinking in with the very definitions of the words they are compelled to study. And yet the man who dares to utter a word of warning of the approaching danger is stigmatized as an enemy to education and unfit to be men tioned as a candidate for the humblest office.

"Be it so. Viewing this great question as I do, not for all the offices in the gift of the American people would I shrink from an open and candid avowal of my sentiments. If I have learned anything from the reading of history, it is that the man who, in violation of great principles, toils for temporary fame, purchases for himself either total oblivion or eternal infamy, while he who temporarily goes down battling for right principles always deserves, and generally secures, the gratitude of succeeding ages, and will carry with him the sustaining solace of a clean conscience, more precious than all the offices and honors in the gift of man.

"History tells us that Aristides was voted into banishment because he was just. Yet who would not a thousand times rather today be Aristides than be numbered amongst the proudest of his persecutors.

"Socrates, too, in violation of every principle of justice, was con demned to a dungeon and to death. Yet what name is more honored in history than his? And which of his unjust judges would not gladly, hide himself in the utter darkness of oblivion from the with ering scorn and contempt of all mankind ?

"From the noble example of Aristides and of Socrates let American statesmen learn wisdom, and from the undying infamy of their cow ardly time-serving persecutors let political demagogues of today take warning"

So said Montgomery in 1886.

13 posted on 04/22/2011 9:05:14 AM PDT by loveliberty2
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To: IbJensen

I still appreciate the “new” math classes I had in JrHS in the 60’s (SMSG).


14 posted on 04/22/2011 9:16:57 AM PDT by Paladin2
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To: Paladin2

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SXx2VVSWDMo


15 posted on 04/22/2011 9:19:05 AM PDT by Paladin2
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To: Noumenon
Right.

Also, I think that it would be better to have students read what, for example, Frederick Douglas WROTE, himself ... instead of reading what 5 mediocre authors SAID about what he wrote.

There is no person who can better convey facts than the individual who wrote them. No literary hack or textbook author can compare to the authentic source.

16 posted on 04/22/2011 9:22:11 AM PDT by SMARTY (Conforming to non-conformity is conforming just the same.)
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To: cripplecreek

Our public school system recently was tossing aroud ideas on how to get the “community” more involved in the schools, and thus, bring in more money and volunteerism. One of the ideas proposed was to install a laundromat in the school. I am not kidding! Makes me view my children’s $6000 private school tuition as an investment, not an expense.


17 posted on 04/22/2011 9:26:45 AM PDT by SteelCurtain_SSN720 (If you pass the rabid child, say "hammer down" for me)
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To: cripplecreek

barack hussein obama, mmmm, mmmm, mmmm

barack hussein obama, mmmm, mmmm, mmmm

sick


18 posted on 04/22/2011 9:35:20 AM PDT by jbp1 (be nice now)
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To: BenKenobi

Good for you! More importantly, good for your students.

My children go to a very good charter school. It’s consistently the top-rated school in the district. The charter school teaches phonics. The kids have to memorize things, such as spelling words and multiplication tables. They drill a lot of basic arithmetic. It’s not a religious school, but the school’s teachers and administrators are socially very conservative. Values and character instruction are integrated into every grade’s curriculum. The school holds the kids to high standards of conduct. Hard work and achievement (rather than “self esteem”) are among the values promoted.

Even there, I see the influence of some of these pernicious educational theories creeping in. My fourth grader has algebra and geometry topics sprinkled into his math. The math curriculum in every grade skips around far too much, in my opinion. My kindergartener sometimes has to do “word shape” puzzles in which he has to find the proper word to fit into each box based on its shape. I see my kids assigned more group projects than I would like. (I’ve hated group projects ever since I was the kid who had to carry the other kids in groups.)

Some of these curriculum issues are driven by forces outside the school’s control. For example, the fourth grade FCAT (our state’s assessment test) includes some algebra and geometry problems. So, our school has to teach some algebra and geometry by the fourth grade. Still, I wonder if the school will be able to resist the trendy liberal curricula and modern educational theories long enough for all of my children to get a good education there.


19 posted on 04/22/2011 9:37:09 AM PDT by FiscalSanity
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To: jbp1

he bows to saudi kings
and says many stupid things


20 posted on 04/22/2011 11:37:35 AM PDT by hyperconservative (adopt or foster a horse, cat, dog or rabbit lest they die)
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To: IbJensen

7. EDUCATION AND KIDS WITH AN ATTITUDE THAT LEARNING IS FOR “WHITE FOLKS” OR “GRINGOS”

8. NO FATHER IN THE HOME

9. STUPID PARENTS HAVE STUPID KIDS


21 posted on 04/22/2011 11:46:22 AM PDT by RockinRight (Maybe Trump's a stalking horse for Palin...)
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To: SteelCurtain_SSN720

One thing I heard a few months ago, from SWEDEN of all places, was that apparently, each family gets a voucher of XXXX and can choose any school, anywhere they wish with it, no forced attendance by district.

On one hand I like the idea.

On the other hand, it would probably end up infecting every school in the country with just enough bad kids to screw all of them up, due to parents thinking the problem with their kids is the schools, and not THEMSELVES and the way they’ve raised them.

Sweden values education more than we do, and I think too many parents in the US take no time at all teaching their kids, or even teaching them to WANT to learn, instead, throwing them at school and expecting their teachers to handle it all.


22 posted on 04/22/2011 11:50:42 AM PDT by RockinRight (Maybe Trump's a stalking horse for Palin...)
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To: IbJensen

CONCLUSIONS
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

The problem with U.S. education is that it is PUBLIC!

“Public” by definition means that it is socialist-funded, godless, collectivist managed, and run by the voting mob. How on earth can that be successful?


23 posted on 04/22/2011 12:00:22 PM PDT by wintertime
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To: IbJensen
That’s the easiest, cheapest way to improve public education.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

When is Bruce going to give it up? He persists in his quixotic quest to reform the unreformable.

It is IMPOSSIBLE to fix schools that are fundamentally, to their very core, socialist-funded, collectivist-managed, godless, and owned by the voting mob.

Solution: Begin the process of getting government out of the education business from pre-K to graduate school!

24 posted on 04/22/2011 12:08:06 PM PDT by wintertime
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To: BenKenobi

I’ve taught 7th grade for 17 years, and every Friday we play a review game in class on that day. The game is usually based on whatever sport is in season (right now, it’s baseball) and win-loss records are kept on the wall for all to see.

Rote memorization earns your team points. The more you can memorize, the better you help your team. They have to know what they’ve been taught. Everything’s fair game, from stuff that I taught the previous day, to stuff that I taught in August.

Of course, they also learn a good lesson about the dynamics of working in a group, i.e., that working in a group pretty much sucks, because there’s always knuckle-heads that everyone else has to drag along. I never attempt group work for any serious assignment, because I know that the work I would get would only reflect the abilities of the best student in the group. The others would just have that kid do their part for them.

I’ve seen kids who had no motivation to do anything decide that they weren’t going to be the object of scorn and ridicule from their classmates any more and actually learn the information.

Not only that, when they pick new teams, the lazy kids get to experience the humiliation of being passed over for the hard workers.

By the end of the year, they realize the reason that they know all that they know is because they had to COMPETE, and that, if they let up, someone else will move ahead of them.

That’s possibly the best lesson they can learn, anyway.


25 posted on 04/22/2011 12:26:44 PM PDT by FLAMING DEATH (Are you better off than you were $4 trillion ago?)
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To: American Quilter
I don't know if these are the primary problems with public education, but I know that there are problems. My daughters went to one of the most highly rated public high schools in our state. They took many seminar and AP courses, and therefore their friends were among the best and brightest at the school. They and their friends have since gone on to attend some of our most selective colleges and graduate schools.

While they were still in high school, I took a number of them on a long weekend trip to a beachhouse to which we have access. Much to their disbelief, frustration and even some anger, with my not recently educated, 50 something, degrading memory, I beat the pants off them in any game we played that weekend that involved a knowledge of facts, be it Jeapordy or Trivial Pursuit or anything else.

Think about that: my memory is clearly not what it was, and I have not attended school for almost 40 years, but I still had a better grasp of history, politics, science, literature, sports, etc. than the very best of daughters' generation.

The lesson here is that our schools are failing not just the dropouts but also those who succeed.

26 posted on 04/22/2011 12:45:23 PM PDT by p. henry
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To: IbJensen
John Adams observed, way back in the early days of the nation, that finding a citizen who could not read and write was "as rare as a comet." Sadly, today, many adults who were imprisoned in the public schools of America until they were 16 years of age cannot read.

Even Edmund Burke, in his "Speech on Conciliation . . . ." before the British Parliament in 1775, made the following observation about education in America and its effect on their ability to understand liberty, as well as their ability to stave off threats to their liberty, or, as he put it, "snuff the approach of tyrany in every tainted breeze.":

"me, Sir, to add another circumstance in our colonies, which contributes no mean part towards the growth and effect of this untractable spirit. I mean their education. In no country perhaps in the world is the law so general a study. The profession itself is numerous and powerful; and in most provinces it takes the lead. The greater number of the deputies sent to the congress were lawyers. But all who read, and most do read, endeavour to obtain some smattering in that science. I have been told by an eminent bookseller, that in no branch of his business, after tracts of popular devotion, were so many books as those on the law exported to the plantations. The colonists have now fallen into the way of printing them for their own use. I hear that they have sold nearly as many of Blackstone's Commentaries in America as in England. General Gage marks out this disposition very particularly in a letter on your table. He states, that all the people in his government are lawyers, or smatterers in law; and that in Boston they have been enabled, by successful chicane, wholly to evade many parts of one of your capital penal constitutions. The smartness of debate will say, that this knowledge ought to teach them more clearly the rights of legislature, their obligations to obedience, and the penalties of rebellion. All this is mighty well. But my honourable and learned friend on the floor, who condescends to mark what I say for animadversion, will disdain that ground. He has heard, as well as I, that when great honours and great emoluments do not win over this knowledge to the service of the state, it is a formidable adversary to government. If the spirit be not tamed and broken by these happy methods, it is stubborn and litigious. Abeunt studia in mores. This study renders men acute, inquisitive, dexterous, prompt in attack, ready in defence, full of resources. In other countries,the people, more simple, and of a less mercurial cast, judge of an ill principle in government only by an actual grievance; here they anticipate the evil, and judge of the pressure of the grievance by the badness of the principle. They augur misgovernment at a distance; and snuff the approach of tyranny in every tainted breeze."

Perhaps the kind of "educated electorate" America's Founders envisioned would understand that the consequence of deficits and debt is slavery, oppression, and tyranny. Perhaps such an electorate would recognize tyranny masked as a promise to "redistribute the wealth" of others who have earned it to cronies, union big wigs, and assorted other voting blocks in order to assure power for the person making such promises.

27 posted on 04/22/2011 1:16:26 PM PDT by loveliberty2
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To: FLAMING DEATH

I’ve been teaching nine years. I’m using your ideas. Thank you.


28 posted on 04/22/2011 1:43:31 PM PDT by redpoll
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To: loveliberty2
Perhaps the kind of “educated electorate” America's Founders envisioned........
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

When the Founders envisioned education they likely had their **own** educations in mind: homeschooling, private tutoring as needed, one room schools organized by parents, and dame schools in the homes of neighbors.

For the older children they likely expected apprenticeships in the early teens, and home based academies that prepared the brightest ( who could afford it) for entrance into college, again, as young teens.

Our Founding Fathers would be **appalled** to see our nation's children attending compulsory, socialist-modeled, collectivist managed, godless, prison-like, and voter mob owned government schooling. Children who attend these schools learn to be comfortable with:

voter mob compulsion.
socialism
collectivist control of their lives, deaths, and even their thoughts,
godlessness
prison-like social institutions

29 posted on 04/22/2011 1:47:00 PM PDT by wintertime
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To: IbJensen; wintertime; cripplecreek; All
In another post, I mentioned Zacharias Montgomery and the analysis he did of what he then called the "anti-parental" public schools.

His stand against such government-controlled schooling was based on his analysis of the movement in America to the Year 1886, and he documented much of his reasoning with facts from government reports.

Those of you participating in this thread may be interested in reading his lengthy treatise online and perhaps referring others to it.

Here are the details:

"Poison drops in the federal Senate: the school question from a parental and non-sectarian stand-point: an epitome of the educational views of Zach. Montgomery on account of which views a stubborn but fruitless effort was made in the United States Senate to prevent his confirmation as Assistant Attorney General (1886)"

Author: Montgomery, Zachariah
Subject: Education -- United States; Education and state
Publisher: Washington, D.C. : Gibson Bros., printers
Possible copyright status: NOT_IN_COPYRIGHT
Language: English
Call number: AXU-5456
Digitizing sponsor: MSN
Book contributor: OISE - University of Toronto
Collection: toronto

Here

His reasoning on the consequences for a people or a nation of such a system of education was sound. Sadly, those who opposed his position treated him badly and ignored his warnings--just as they ignore citizens today who do the same.

30 posted on 04/22/2011 3:09:02 PM PDT by loveliberty2
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To: FiscalSanity

Scary. Even at a good school, the nonsense creeps in.

Word shape puzzles??? OMG.

Please show the original article to the principal.


31 posted on 04/22/2011 4:12:33 PM PDT by BruceDeitrickPrice (education reform)
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To: FiscalSanity

Funny you mention the FCAT, I work for the organization that makes them. :)


32 posted on 04/22/2011 10:46:00 PM PDT by BenKenobi (Don't expect to build up the weak by pulling down the strong. - Silent Cal)
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To: IbJensen

I take issue with #3.

There is simply too much to know these days.

Knowing how to find the information you need and how to apply it is critical. Being able to educate yourself on the current task at hand, solve the problem and move on is how you make progress overall.


33 posted on 04/23/2011 1:10:51 AM PDT by DB
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To: IbJensen; wintertime

Thanks for posting this. Those six items are the most concise summary of today’s education that I’ve ever seen. You have read through Thomas Sowell’s books to get those six items in your head...but he hits them all. My kids never spent a day in public school...and none of these items are new to me, but to see it all right there is amazing. This is going home page.

(a day late Wintertime, but I know you’ll like this posting)


34 posted on 04/23/2011 5:05:14 AM PDT by BobL (PLEASE READ: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2657811/posts))
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To: loveliberty2

Government schooling was the first whack at the foundations of the family.

Government schooling absolved the **father** of his responsibility before God to educate his children.


35 posted on 04/23/2011 5:41:56 AM PDT by wintertime
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To: FiscalSanity
For example, the fourth grade FCAT (our state’s assessment test) includes some algebra and geometry problems.
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My bet is there are one or two questions involving algebra and geometry.

If the children had a sound mastery of 4th grade arithmetic their scores on these standardized tests would be outstanding, even if they did get the one or two algebra and geometry questions wrong.

36 posted on 04/23/2011 5:47:10 AM PDT by wintertime
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To: FLAMING DEATH
By the end of the year, they realize the reason that they know all that they know is because they had to COMPETE, and that, if they let up, someone else will move ahead of them.

That’s possibly the best lesson they can learn, anyway.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

In every adult work and social environment in which I have been involved pleasant cooperation, reliability, dependability, and especially **competency** were the qualities that were valued. While there may have been competition with outside business competitors, competition within the group was NOT helpful in any manner.

While I agree with you that your methods are likely effective in helping children learn in the typical classroom environment, but, fundamentally, is it natural or normal for children to be segregated from the larger society, in prison-like buildings, and confined for large parts of the day to socialization with children all of the same age?

Would an adult willingly place himself in a situation where he would be “humiliated” and subjected to “scorn”? If an adult would find it very difficult to cope with this type of social abuse, why on earth would we think it is good for children? Perhaps it is the environment itself that is responsible for the lack of motivation.

Much of the “socialization” learned in our prison-like government government schools is prison-gang survival and coping strategies. These dysfunctional habits must be **unlearned** and replaced with healthy interpersonal skills if success is to be achieved in the workplace, family, and larger society. Thankfully, humans are highly adaptable. Most make the transition. Sadly, some do not.

If our Founding Fathers were to walk through a typical government school they would be horrified at how we treat children. When they spoke of education they likely had their own educations in mind. That would include:

**homeschool with tutoring as needed from relatives, friends, and some paid tutors.
** very small dame schools in the homes of neighbors
** very small one room schools organized by parents that included children of all ages
** Apprenticeships for older children, and home-based academies to prepare the brightest ( who could afford it) for entrance into college as **young** teens.

37 posted on 04/23/2011 6:24:57 AM PDT by wintertime
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To: BobL

Those six items are the most concise summary of today’s education that I’ve ever seen.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Ah! But....The problem is that people wrongly believe that if they could just fix those 6 problems that government schools would be fixed.

Government schools can’t be fixed because ( by definition) government schools **are**, to their core, socialist-funded, collectivist-managed, voter mob-owned, compulsory, prison-like, and godless.


38 posted on 04/23/2011 6:28:11 AM PDT by wintertime
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To: wintertime

“Government schools can’t be fixed because ( by definition) government schools **are**, to their core, socialist-funded, collectivist-managed, voter mob-owned, compulsory, prison-like, and godless.”

Good point - I haven’t looked at it that way. Of course the first step is getting parents up to speed...so these 6 items at least let them know what to look out for. I was having a talk with a co-worker just yesterday, and she was bringing up some of these.


39 posted on 04/23/2011 6:45:23 AM PDT by BobL (PLEASE READ: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2657811/posts))
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To: IbJensen

b4l8r


40 posted on 04/23/2011 7:18:59 AM PDT by 668 - Neighbor of the Beast (Public education is WELFARE.)
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To: wintertime

“In every adult work and social environment in which I have been involved pleasant cooperation, reliability, dependability, and especially **competency** were the qualities that were valued. While there may have been competition with outside business competitors, competition within the group was NOT helpful in any manner.”

And everyone is promoted at the same time, and everyone makes the same salary, right? If you don’t think people compete within a company for salaries, positions, etc, you’re nuts.

“Would an adult willingly place himself in a situation where he would be “humiliated” and subjected to “scorn”? If an adult would find it very difficult to cope with this type of social abuse, why on earth would we think it is good for children? Perhaps it is the environment itself that is responsible for the lack of motivation.”

Nobody’s making them be lazy or forcing them not to study. It’s called a “consequence”. If people come to recognize, FROM YOUR ACTIONS, that you choose not to work, then so be it. It’s going to be that way for the rest of your life! The good part about it is, the kids completely forget about socioeconomic class, cliques, etc., and select ONLY based on the fact that someone might be a hard worker. In other words, they see the VALUE in a person where they otherwise might not. Conversely, sometimes best friends are passed over if they’ve shown lazy tendencies. But, it’s all up to the kid to work hard and create that value in himself, as it will be for the rest of their lives! That’s the way it SHOULD be! And as for blaming the environment, that’s just one of a long list of things that people use so they don’t have to hold the kids responsible. “It’s not the kid’s fault, its the environment”. If that were true, none of them would succeed.


41 posted on 04/23/2011 7:59:04 AM PDT by FLAMING DEATH (Are you better off than you were $4 trillion ago?)
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To: FLAMING DEATH
And everyone is promoted at the same time, and everyone makes the same salary, right?

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Those who get promoted are those with the most competency ( they **know** their job), reliable, dependable, pleasant, and can generate the most productive cooperation among those working under them.

The typical prison-like government school is one of the worst places to learn the interpersonal skills needed to advance in business. The is one place that is definitely worse: real prison!

42 posted on 04/23/2011 8:26:43 AM PDT by wintertime
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To: wintertime

Load of balderdash.

Since when isn’t competition a part of the adult work world? Maybe it isn’t where you work, but for those of us who have no job security, you bet we have to work our tail off just to see through to another paycheck.


43 posted on 04/23/2011 8:28:21 AM PDT by BenKenobi (Don't expect to build up the weak by pulling down the strong. - Silent Cal)
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To: FLAMING DEATH

I am a cub scout leader. My little scouts LOVE to learn.

However.....Every one of them **HATES** school! It must be a visceral feeling for them. It shows on their faces when the very word, “school”, is mentioned.


44 posted on 04/23/2011 8:29:36 AM PDT by wintertime
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To: BenKenobi

we have to work our tail off just to see through to another paycheck
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Anything less would be stealing from your employer. That’s one of the Ten Commandments that are not taught in our government schools.


45 posted on 04/23/2011 8:31:15 AM PDT by wintertime
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To: wintertime

Apparently not in your competition-free world.

The reality is that unless people know they will be fired and replaced, they will slack. Guaranteed.


46 posted on 04/23/2011 8:45:54 AM PDT by BenKenobi (Don't expect to build up the weak by pulling down the strong. - Silent Cal)
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To: IbJensen; wintertime; cripplecreek; All
The following essay reinforces the points being made in this thread:

An Enlightened, Committed People Who Understand The Principles Of Our Constitution

- The Most Effective Means Of Preserving Liberty

"Although all men are born free, slavery has been the general lot of the human race. Ignorant - they have been cheated; asleep - they have been surprised; divided - the yoke has been forced upon them. But what is the lesson? ...the people ought to be enlightened, to be awakened, to be united, that after establishing a government they should watch over it.... It is universally admitted that a well-instructed people alone can be permanently free."- James Madison

America's Constitution is the means by which knowledgeable and free people, capable of self-government, can bind and control their elected representatives in government. In order to remain free, the Founders said, the people themselves must clearly understand the ideas and principles upon which their Constitu­tional government is based. Through such understanding, they will be able to prevent those in power from eroding their Constitutional protections.

The Founders established schools and seminaries for the distinct purpose of instilling in youth the lessons of history and the ideas of liberty. And, in their day, they were successful. Tocqueville, eminent French jurist, traveled America and in his 1830's work, DEMOCRACY IN AMERICA, wrote:

".every citizen ... is taught . the doctrines and the evidences of his religion, the history of his country, and the leading features of its Constitution ... it is extremely rare to find a man imperfectly acquainted with all these things, and a person wholly ignorant of them is a sort of phenomenon."

On the frontier, he noted that "...no sort of comparison can be drawn between the pioneer and the dwelling that shelters him.... He wears the dress and speaks the language of the cities; he is acquainted with the past, curious about the future, and ready for argument about the present.... I do not think that so much intellectual activity exists in the most enlightened and populous districts of France' " He continued, "It cannot be doubted that in the United States the instruction of the people powerfully contri­butes to the support of the democratic republic; and such must always be the case...where the instruction which enlightens the understanding is not separated from the moral education.."

Possessing a clear understanding of the failure of previous civilizations to achieve and sustain freedom for individuals, our forefathers discovered some timeless truths about human nature, the struggle for individual liberty, the human tendency toward abuse of power, and the means for curbing that tendency through Constitutional self-government. Jefferson's Bill For The More General Diffusion Of Knowledge For Virginia declared:

"...experience hath shewn, that even under the best forms (of government), those entrusted with power have, in time, and by slow operations, perverted it into tyranny; and it is believed that the most effectual means of preventing this would be, to illuminate...the minds of the people...to give them knowledge of those facts, which history exhibiteth. History, by apprizing them of the past, will enable them to judge of the future...it will qualify them judges of the actions and designs of men; it will enable them to know ambition under every disguise it may assume; and knowing it, to defeat its views.."

Education was not perceived by the Founders to be a mere process for teaching basic skills. It was much, much more. Educa­tion included the very process by which the people of America would understand and be able to preserve their liberty and secure their Creator-endowed rights. Understanding the nature and origin of their rights and the means of preserving them, the people would be capable of self government, for they would recognize any threats to liberty and "nip the shoots of arbitrary power in the bud." (Adams) (Read about "Our Ageless Constitution" at this site).

 A review of textbooks used in the schools until the mid-20th Century reveals a very different curriculum than has existed for many decades now.

It seems the so-called "public schools" stopped performing the role described by the Founders about the time the "progressives" took control of the mechanisms of what now passes for "education" in America. Perhaps the near explosion of home schools and private schools over the past couple of decades has contributed to recent renewed interest in the ideas of liberty and America's founding principles. Is it too little, too late?

47 posted on 04/23/2011 9:04:35 AM PDT by loveliberty2
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To: BenKenobi
The reality is that unless people know they will be fired and replaced, they will slack. Guaranteed.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Yes, that is the **real** world and the law of natural consequences. People are fired for lack of competency, inability to produce, or inability to work cooperatively with others to produce a desired result.

So?....How often are children “fired” from government school for lack of competency, or inability to get along with others? Hm? No, they are not “fired”. Instead they are “humiliated” and the other children are taught to “scorn” them.

Which is more humane?

1) Is it kinder and more considerate to humiliate and scorn children who are government captives in a government prison-like facility ( children whose only crime was to be born),...

... or?...

2) Do as private schools do? Inform them that they are not a good fit for the private school and the other children, and ask them to leave?

Which is more “real world” and better preparation for the adult world of work and social relationships?

48 posted on 04/23/2011 9:12:31 AM PDT by wintertime
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To: wintertime

I teach in private school. I don’t humiliate, I don’t scorn. All I do is ask the same from all the students, to reach the standard that I’ve set.

If they don’t reach it, it means I have to work harder with them and they have to work harder too.

The kids don’t want to look bad in front of their peers, and the kids know that I’m not going to ask of them what I don’t ask of anybody else in the class. I don’t pick on people, I don’t make examples of them.

But they know that I will call on them, and they will be expected to know the answer, and I will work with them until they are confident.

Unlike in the real world, you get second chances, as many as it takes until you get it. They also realize that I’m only with them for one year, and that next year, if they don’t work, the consequences will be dire.

Most of them respond. Two haven’t really for the entire year. But every class I keep pushing them along and trying to get them involved in the class.

I don’t and haven’t had to use the stick. Yet. So far the carrot has been effective enough to motivate most of the students. Yes, they compete with each other and I encourage them to do so.


49 posted on 04/23/2011 9:22:15 AM PDT by BenKenobi (Don't expect to build up the weak by pulling down the strong. - Silent Cal)
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To: loveliberty2
A review of textbooks used in the schools until the mid-20th Century reveals a very different curriculum than has existed for many decades now.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Government education probably wasn't too bad initially due to the basic values brought to the socialist schooling system by the teachers and principals. These values are reflected in the early textbooks.

We will see the same thing with socialized health care.

The professionalism of the doctors and nurses will ( at first) insure that patients get reasonably decent care. In one or two generations, though, as the those who were trained in the private system retire, socialized medicine will exhibit all the pathology seen in our socialist-funded, compulsory, and voter mob controlled government schools.

In one or two generations citizens will be saying:

** We need local control.
** We need to get rid of the Federal Department of National Health.
** We need to elect better people to the health boards.
** We need to get back to basics.
** If only the doctors and nurses weren't unionized.
** If only parents took better care of their kids. It's the parents’ fault.
** If only citizens took more responsibility for themselves. It's the citizen's own fault.
** If only there was less waste.
** We need more doctors and nurses and fewer administrators.
** If only the medical and nursing schools had fewer Marxists.

Americans, in one or two generations, will be absolutely incapable of believing that a private system of health care can exist. They will think that if they could just tweak the socialist health care system in one or two ways that somehow it would be fixed. Very few will understand that the underlying pathology within the system is SOCIALISM!

50 posted on 04/23/2011 9:25:58 AM PDT by wintertime
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