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Former “alarmist” scientist says Anthropogenic Global Warming (AGW) based in false science
Hotair ^ | 05/15/2011 | Bruce McQuain

Posted on 05/15/2011 7:14:44 PM PDT by SeekAndFind

David Evans is a scientist. He has also worked in the heart of the AGW machine. He consulted full-time for the Australian Greenhouse Office (now the Department of Climate Change) from 1999 to 2005, and part-time 2008 to 2010, modeling Australia’s carbon in plants, debris, mulch, soils, and forestry and agricultural products. He has six university degrees, including a PhD in Electrical Engineering from Stanford University. The other day he said:

The debate about global warming has reached ridiculous proportions and is full of micro-thin half-truths and misunderstandings. I am a scientist who was on the carbon gravy train, understands the evidence, was once an alarmist, but am now a skeptic.

And with that he begins a demolition of the theories, premises and methods by which the AGW scare has been foisted on the public.

The politics:

The whole idea that carbon dioxide is the main cause of the recent global warming is based on a guess that was proved false by empirical evidence during the 1990s. But the gravy train was too big, with too many jobs, industries, trading profits, political careers, and the possibility of world government and total control riding on the outcome. So rather than admit they were wrong, the governments, and their tame climate scientists, now outrageously maintain the fiction that carbon dioxide is a dangerous pollutant.

He makes clear he understands that CO2 is indeed a “greenhouse gas”, and makes the point that if all else was equal then yes, more CO2 in the air should and would mean a warmer planet. But that’s where the current “science” goes off the tracks.It is built on an assumption that is false.

The science:

But the issue is not whether carbon dioxide warms the planet, but how much.

Most scientists, on both sides, also agree on how much a given increase in the level of carbon dioxide raises the planet’s temperature, if just the extra carbon dioxide is considered. These calculations come from laboratory experiments; the basic physics have been well known for a century.

The disagreement comes about what happens next.

The planet reacts to that extra carbon dioxide, which changes everything. Most critically, the extra warmth causes more water to evaporate from the oceans. But does the water hang around and increase the height of moist air in the atmosphere, or does it simply create more clouds and rain? Back in 1980, when the carbon dioxide theory started, no one knew. The alarmists guessed that it would increase the height of moist air around the planet, which would warm the planet even further, because the moist air is also a greenhouse gas. [emphasis mine]

But it didn’t increase the height of the moist air around the planet as subsequent studies have shown since that time. However, that theory or premise became the heart of the modeling that was done by the alarmist crowd.

The modeling:

This is the core idea of every official climate model: For each bit of warming due to carbon dioxide, they claim it ends up causing three bits of warming due to the extra moist air. The climate models amplify the carbon dioxide warming by a factor of three — so two-thirds of their projected warming is due to extra moist air (and other factors); only one-third is due to extra carbon dioxide.

That’s the core of the issue. All the disagreements and misunderstandings spring from this. The alarmist case is based on this guess about moisture in the atmosphere, and there is simply no evidence for the amplification that is at the core of their alarmism.

What did they find when they tried to prove this theory?

Weather balloons had been measuring the atmosphere since the 1960s, many thousands of them every year. The climate models all predict that as the planet warms, a hot spot of moist air will develop over the tropics about 10 kilometres up, as the layer of moist air expands upwards into the cool dry air above. During the warming of the late 1970s, ’80s and ’90s, the weather balloons found no hot spot. None at all. Not even a small one. This evidence proves that the climate models are fundamentally flawed, that they greatly overestimate the temperature increases due to carbon dioxide.

This evidence first became clear around the mid-1990s.

Evans is not the first to come to these conclusions. Earlier this year, in a post I highlighted, Richard Lindzen said the very same thing.

For warming since 1979, there is a further problem. The dominant role of cumulus convection in the tropics requires that temperature approximately follow what is called a moist adiabatic profile. This requires that warming in the tropical upper troposphere be 2-3 times greater than at the surface. Indeed, all models do show this, but the data doesn’t and this means that something is wrong with the data. It is well known that above about 2 km altitude, the tropical temperatures are pretty homogeneous in the horizontal so that sampling is not a problem. Below two km (roughly the height of what is referred to as the trade wind inversion), there is much more horizontal variability, and, therefore, there is a profound sampling problem. Under the circumstances, it is reasonable to conclude that the problem resides in the surface data, and that the actual trend at the surface is about 60% too large. Even the claimed trend is larger than what models would have projected but for the inclusion of an arbitrary fudge factor due to aerosol cooling. The discrepancy was reported by Lindzen (2007) and by Douglass et al (2007). Inevitably in climate science, when data conflicts with models, a small coterie of scientists can be counted upon to modify the data.

Evans reaches the natural conclusion – the same conclusion Lindzen reached:

At this point, official “climate science” stopped being a science. In science, empirical evidence always trumps theory, no matter how much you are in love with the theory. If theory and evidence disagree, real scientists scrap the theory. But official climate science ignored the crucial weather balloon evidence, and other subsequent evidence that backs it up, and instead clung to their carbon dioxide theory — that just happens to keep them in well-paying jobs with lavish research grants, and gives great political power to their government masters.

And why will it continue? Again, follow the money:

We are now at an extraordinary juncture. Official climate science, which is funded and directed entirely by government, promotes a theory that is based on a guess about moist air that is now a known falsehood. Governments gleefully accept their advice, because the only ways to curb emissions are to impose taxes and extend government control over all energy use. And to curb emissions on a world scale might even lead to world government — how exciting for the political class!

Indeed. How extraordinarily unexciting for the proletariat who will be the ones stuck with the bill if these governments ever succeed in finding a way to pass the taxes they hope to impose and extend even more government’s control over energy.

While you’re listening to the CEOs of American oil companies being grilled by Congress today, remember all of this. They’re going to try to punish an industry that is vital to our economy and national security, and much of the desire to do that is based on this false “science” that has been ginned up by government itself as an excuse to control more of our energy sector, raise untold revenues for its use and to pick winners and losers. All based on something which is, according to Evans and other scientists, now demonstrably false.


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; News/Current Events; Philosophy
KEYWORDS: churchofclimatology; climatechange; environmentalism; globalwarming

1 posted on 05/15/2011 7:14:48 PM PDT by SeekAndFind
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To: SeekAndFind; markomalley; Bockscar; Thunder90; Dr. Bogus Pachysandra; Normandy; FreedomPoster; ...
 


Beam me to Planet Gore !

2 posted on 05/15/2011 7:16:26 PM PDT by steelyourfaith (If it's "green" ... it's crap !!!)
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To: SeekAndFind

the truth shall prevail.


3 posted on 05/15/2011 7:19:05 PM PDT by ken21 (dem taxes + regs + unions = jobs overseas.)
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To: SeekAndFind

Ouch, that’s gonna leave a mark!


4 posted on 05/15/2011 7:23:26 PM PDT by Free Vulcan (Vote Republican! You can vote Democrat when you're dead.)
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To: SeekAndFind
If theory and evidence disagree, real scientists scrap the theory.

In the old days, this would NOT have been a revolutionary statement...

5 posted on 05/15/2011 7:28:18 PM PDT by GOPJ (Osama bin SEALed - http://www.citizenwarrior.com/2009/05/terrifying-brilliance-of-islam.html)
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To: SeekAndFind

Well so much for ‘peer review’ and that ‘scientific methodology’.


6 posted on 05/15/2011 7:32:57 PM PDT by Just mythoughts
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To: ken21
Yes, if we help her get out.

There is existing legislation in U.S. against such kind of criminal racket.

G.E. bosses, Al Gore et al. should be trialed under RICO.

Everyone spreading AGW fraund over internet should be charged for wire fraud, a federal felony.

Church of Climatology would disappear before one could say "Milankovich cycles".

7 posted on 05/15/2011 7:34:14 PM PDT by DTA (U.S. Centcom vs. U.S. AFRICOM)
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To: ken21

The knowing of the truth shall set us free.

Thus, the only thing keeping us from suffering through the effects of radical environmentalism (including the political power brokers who enable them) is whether enough people gain the knowledge of the truth in a timely fashion.

Tough assignment, but I sense the tide may be turning.


8 posted on 05/15/2011 7:37:15 PM PDT by Let_It_Be_So
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To: SeekAndFind

Excellent thread post. Thanks.

It is encouraging to see more and more of these people doing the right thing and standing up to speak out.

As someone with training in scientific methods, I was shocked by the release of the East Anglia emails and what they indicate.

I find it disgusting, yet fascinating that they tried so hard to defend the indefensible. They doubled down on their deceptions, to no avail. Even to those who AREN’T trained in science, the deceit clearly shone through.

The real clincher for me were the commented notes in Mathematica. Nobody would EVER look there...


9 posted on 05/15/2011 7:37:15 PM PDT by rlmorel (Capitalism is the Goose that lays The Golden Egg.)
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To: SeekAndFind
They’re going to try to punish an industry that is vital to our economy and national security, and much of the desire to do that is based on this false “science” that has been ginned up by government itself as an excuse to control more of our energy sector, raise untold revenues for its use and to pick winners and losers.

"Is it getting warm in here or is it just me?"

10 posted on 05/15/2011 7:37:49 PM PDT by RoadKingSE (How do you know that the light at the end of the tunnel isn't a muzzle flash ?)
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To: GOPJ

I thought exactly the same thing.

Sad.


11 posted on 05/15/2011 7:38:36 PM PDT by rlmorel (Capitalism is the Goose that lays The Golden Egg.)
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To: steelyourfaith

Tesla a famous engineer scientist of the late 19th Century and father of modern power (AC) whose inventions run our cities today died in the 1930’s. The federal gov closed his apartment immediately after his death and seized all his papers and notes as national secrets. Eventually the docs were released. Included in his preliminary notes and outlines for future inventions were radar, microwave, particle beam weapons and lasers. Another intriguing concept was beaming radio signals to the ionosphere and ionizing it just enough to have it influence the upper atmosphere wind patterns which can influence the weather patterns. According to Tesla’s calculation, it does not require much energy and within the means of a modern industrial society to produce such powerful radio waves to achieve such affects vs the millions of tons of CO2 needed (after the ocean absorbs millions of tons) to affect weather as proposed by the Global Warming advocates. Today the US, Russia and Australia has very powerful over the horizon radar system composed of hundred miles of radio transmission towers beaming energy up and bouncing signals off the atmosphere. One of these radar networks is sufficient to cover the entire North American continent. It possesses enough power to affect the ionosphere. Question is - are these powerful radio/radar installations inadvertently affecting the weather patterns or even more tinfoil are being used by gov to conduct weather warfare????


12 posted on 05/15/2011 7:39:15 PM PDT by Fee
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To: RoadKingSE

Boy, was that ever a money quote from the article, eh?


13 posted on 05/15/2011 7:40:23 PM PDT by rlmorel (Capitalism is the Goose that lays The Golden Egg.)
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To: SeekAndFind

Bookmark


14 posted on 05/15/2011 7:41:30 PM PDT by BunnySlippers (I love BULL MARKETS . . .)
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To: Nailbiter; BartMan1

Ping


15 posted on 05/15/2011 7:48:09 PM PDT by IncPen (Educating Barack Obama has been the most expensive project in human history)
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To: DTA

Comments BUMP! I agree.


16 posted on 05/15/2011 8:27:14 PM PDT by PGalt
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bttt


17 posted on 05/15/2011 8:29:10 PM PDT by Matchett-PI ("Freedom's Just Another Word For Nothing Left to Tax " ~ Gagdad Bob)
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To: call meVeronica

Bump


18 posted on 05/15/2011 8:30:34 PM PDT by call meVeronica
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To: rlmorel; SeekAndFind
"The real clincher for me were the commented notes in Mathematica. Nobody would EVER look there..."

I must have mssed those notes. Would you mind doing a very brief description/explanation, please. (I am collecting anti AGW items...)

Thanks!

FWIW, this award-winning fifth grader really liked this article!

Of course, her conclusion was that AGW is not "good" science...

19 posted on 05/15/2011 8:30:41 PM PDT by TXnMA ("Allah": Satan's current alias...)
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To: SeekAndFind
The debate about global warming has reached ridiculous proportions and is full of micro-thin half-truths and misunderstandings. I am a scientist who was on the carbon gravy train, understands the evidence, was once an alarmist, but am now a skeptic.

Which no longer matters. Everything is covered under Climate Change now.

20 posted on 05/15/2011 8:32:34 PM PDT by Moonman62 (The US has become a government with a country, rather than a country with a government.)
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To: SeekAndFind

Maybe our universities can undo some of the damage they have done to Western Civilization by reclassifying “Climate Science” as a branch of Political Science.


21 posted on 05/15/2011 9:13:58 PM PDT by haroldeveryman
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To: Fee
Prepare to done tinfoil....

HAARP
22 posted on 05/15/2011 9:41:47 PM PDT by Kozak ("It's not an Election it's a Restraining Order" .....PJ O'Rourke)
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To: SeekAndFind

If any are interested, Tim Blair.au covers lots of articles on AGW politics.


23 posted on 05/15/2011 10:37:01 PM PDT by Amberdawn
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To: Fee
SHHHH!!!!!!!!!!! Stop HAARPing on that!
24 posted on 05/15/2011 11:01:49 PM PDT by Puckster
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To: TXnMA

What a sharp and beautiful young lady. It’s nice to see young folks who understand that science is the search for truth, not a political tool.

Interesting article that highlights the fundamental lie that has been crucial to the scientific deception. To those on the inside pushing this fraud it’s always been about political power and control. To me, it’s always been about the death of science. AGW, climate change, or whatever they call it this month will be proven wrong by history but the damage to science can’t be repaired.


25 posted on 05/15/2011 11:56:31 PM PDT by volunbeer
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To: TXnMA

If that was at a public school, I’m sure her project got an “F”. Can’t step out of group-think, you know ;P


26 posted on 05/16/2011 12:27:44 AM PDT by Explorer89 (And now, let the wild rumpus start!!)
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To: TXnMA

That is great! I can’t tell you how encouraging it is to see a young person in public education who doesn’t swallow that AGW stuff hook line and sinker, because they sure do force it! I presume that is your daughter, and if so, you have done well as a parent.

I will get some info for you tonight.


27 posted on 05/16/2011 3:37:49 AM PDT by rlmorel (Capitalism is the Goose that lays The Golden Egg.)
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To: TXnMA

RE: Of course, her conclusion was that AGW is not “good” science...

Smart Girl with a bright future ahead. Maybe someone should invite her to testify before congress to put those greenies in their place :)


28 posted on 05/16/2011 4:20:06 AM PDT by SeekAndFind (u)
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To: SeekAndFind

Saving bump.


29 posted on 05/16/2011 7:32:05 AM PDT by JimRed (Excising a cancer before it kills us waters the Tree of Liberty! TERM LIMITS, NOW AND FOREVER!)
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To: SeekAndFind

I’d like to clarify the title...

AGW is based on a false RELIGION, and justified with false science.


30 posted on 05/16/2011 7:36:06 AM PDT by MrB (The difference between a Humanist and a Satanist - the latter knows whom he's working for)
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To: Just mythoughts
Bull EXCREMENT!

These charlatans knew that the greatest threat to their scam was actual “scientific methodology” and the “peer review” system. Far from being an indication that these things are in error - the fact that the climate “scientists” directly said ‘We will change the peer review system if we have to’ - shows that they KNEW that the system - as it existed - was going to DESTROY THEM!

That is why they colluded to work around peer review system - because, contrary to your uninformed opinion - it DOES work.

31 posted on 05/16/2011 7:39:08 AM PDT by allmendream (Tea Party did not send the GOP to D.C. to negotiate the terms of our surrender to socialism.)
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To: TXnMA
Tremendous...!

My daughter did a paper in 6th grade called "Man Made Global Warming - Reality or Propaganda"

She used many of the articles referenced on FR.....I gave her a heads up as to expect some harsh critiquing by her liberal teacher...

I almost fell out of my chair when she received an "A"....teacher noted that the arguments were well thought out....and....she learned a lot from her paper....there is hope...!!!
32 posted on 05/16/2011 7:47:00 AM PDT by PigRigger (Donate to http://www.AdoptAPlatoon.org - The Troops have our front covered, let's guard their backs!)
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To: allmendream
Bull EXCREMENT! These charlatans knew that the greatest threat to their scam was actual “scientific methodology” and the “peer review” system. Far from being an indication that these things are in error - the fact that the climate “scientists” directly said ‘We will change the peer review system if we have to’ - shows that they KNEW that the system - as it existed - was going to DESTROY THEM! That is why they colluded to work around peer review system - because, contrary to your uninformed opinion - it DOES work.

snicker.... As I sit here and type I have lived long enough to see what TOE the big mama of the scientific methodology has brought to US. Big daddy in the white house is a TOE believer and he intends to use US for the purposes of making sure his methodology survives. Someday soon the 'pure' and 'perfect' scientific methodology will be required learning, and people who are willing to seek 'wisdom' are going to be at the front of the class and teaching the very very very OLD methodology that got interrupted when the first rebel decided he would be 'god'.

33 posted on 05/16/2011 9:34:03 AM PDT by Just mythoughts
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To: Just mythoughts

So I see that your beef with science is longstanding and deeply entrenched.

Way to absolutely NOT deal with the point I made.

So the OLD methodology = Bible

And the NEW methodology (science) = Satan “the first rebel”.

Yeah.......


34 posted on 05/16/2011 9:38:19 AM PDT by allmendream (Tea Party did not send the GOP to D.C. to negotiate the terms of our surrender to socialism.)
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To: Just mythoughts

So I see that your beef with science is longstanding and deeply entrenched.

Way to absolutely NOT deal with the point I made.

So the OLD methodology = Bible

And the NEW methodology (science) = Satan “the first rebel”.

Yeah.......


35 posted on 05/16/2011 9:38:19 AM PDT by allmendream (Tea Party did not send the GOP to D.C. to negotiate the terms of our surrender to socialism.)
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To: SeekAndFind
Here are the money quotes (yeah, pun intended):

________________________________________________

Evans reaches the natural conclusion – the same conclusion Lindzen reached:

At this point, official “climate science” stopped being a science. In science, empirical evidence always trumps theory, no matter how much you are in love with the theory. If theory and evidence disagree, real scientists scrap the theory. But official climate science ignored the crucial weather balloon evidence, and other subsequent evidence that backs it up, and instead clung to their carbon dioxide theory — that just happens to keep them in well-paying jobs with lavish research grants, and gives great political power to their government masters.

And why will it continue? Again, follow the money:

We are now at an extraordinary juncture. Official climate science, which is funded and directed entirely by government, promotes a theory that is based on a guess about moist air that is now a known falsehood. Governments gleefully accept their advice, because the only ways to curb emissions are to impose taxes and extend government control over all energy use. And to curb emissions on a world scale might even lead to world government — how exciting for the political class!

36 posted on 05/16/2011 9:39:17 AM PDT by Lancey Howard
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To: allmendream
So I see that your beef with science is longstanding and deeply entrenched. Way to absolutely NOT deal with the point I made. So the OLD methodology = Bible And the NEW methodology (science) = Satan “the first rebel”. Yeah.......

I have NO beef with science. It is what it is and the literal evidence does NOT need to be manipulated to make to be what serves the purpose of taking the Creator out of the picture. TOE is not going to survive the eternity. Our founders were NOT ignorant nor confounded when they declared where unalienable 'rights' come from that NO man/government can take. TOE hybridizes the Creator. Preachers and adherents to TOE hide from their supposed hot steamy primordial pot of hot and bothered single cell reproduction sometimes called origins and willingly ignore the consequences of their doctrine. Time is short to recognize the folly of their long but limited creation.

37 posted on 05/16/2011 10:03:57 AM PDT by Just mythoughts
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To: BabyBMW; Apple Blossom; theKid51

ping


38 posted on 05/16/2011 10:07:42 AM PDT by bmwcyle (It is Satan's fault)
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To: Just mythoughts

Science only takes the Creator “out of the picture” if you were expecting a scientific explanation for a miracle. That is delusional.

The theory of nuclear fusion and stellar formation - does that take God “out of the picture”? Are the stars currently forming due to gravity and nuclear fusion any less created by God than our own Sun?

I was created “from dust” and “to dust” I will return - but I was also created via cellular processes involving DNA. Does knowing the cellular processes involving DNA remove God as my creator?


39 posted on 05/16/2011 10:08:40 AM PDT by allmendream (Tea Party did not send the GOP to D.C. to negotiate the terms of our surrender to socialism.)
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To: allmendream
Science only takes the Creator “out of the picture” if you were expecting a scientific explanation for a miracle. That is delusional. The theory of nuclear fusion and stellar formation - does that take God “out of the picture”? Are the stars currently forming due to gravity and nuclear fusion any less created by God than our own Sun? I was created “from dust” and “to dust” I will return - but I was also created via cellular processes involving DNA. Does knowing the cellular processes involving DNA remove God as my creator?

Flesh man cannot replicate miracles, but some of them sure like to claim they are in charge of declaring what is or is not a miracle.

When the so called scientific methodology claims that alll life evolved from one singular cell when that cell got all hot and bothered in its hot steaming pot of pond scum eons ago are null and void of the 'soul', which is place at conception in the flesh vessel to take this short journey. Now Adam as was first formed from the dust got the first operation and a curve was removed from his body to form woman. What does that tell anyone the original condition of flesh man? He is only half here.

40 posted on 05/16/2011 10:16:58 AM PDT by Just mythoughts
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To: Just mythoughts
Yes, Creationists insist that some things of this natural world are, of a necessity - a miracle. And they scorn any attempt to discover a natural means whereby it could be explained.

So if we know of natural means whereby I could be created “from dust” - does that mean that God is not my creator? No, of course it doesn't.

If we know of natural means whereby Stars form - does that mean that God did not create them? No, of course it doesn't.

And if someone comes up with a SCIENTIFIC (thus no miracles) explanation for how life could have plausibly formed via natural means - does that mean that God did not create life? No, of course it doesn't.

Newton was sure to stress that by utilizing natural means to explain the movement of celestial bodies - he was in NO WAY suggesting that God was not ultimately responsible.

Apparently over a hundred years later some people are still under the mistaken impression that unless God pulled out a miracle then HE cannot be said to be the Creator or otherwise responsible party. Ludicrous.

41 posted on 05/16/2011 10:24:03 AM PDT by allmendream (Tea Party did not send the GOP to D.C. to negotiate the terms of our surrender to socialism.)
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To: allmendream
Yes, Creationists insist that some things of this natural world are, of a necessity - a miracle. And they scorn any attempt to discover a natural means whereby it could be explained. So if we know of natural means whereby I could be created “from dust” - does that mean that God is not my creator? No, of course it doesn't. If we know of natural means whereby Stars form - does that mean that God did not create them? No, of course it doesn't. And if someone comes up with a SCIENTIFIC (thus no miracles) explanation for how life could have plausibly formed via natural means - does that mean that God did not create life? No, of course it doesn't. Newton was sure to stress that by utilizing natural means to explain the movement of celestial bodies - he was in NO WAY suggesting that God was not ultimately responsible. Apparently over a hundred years later some people are still under the mistaken impression that unless God pulled out a miracle then HE cannot be said to be the Creator or otherwise responsible party. Ludicrous.

Peter says there were/are three different heaven/earth ages. That is just plain 'natural' to me. Peter also says that the 'first' heaven/earth age was destroyed and this earth is filled with the evidence that there was a global catastrophe that even jolted the earth from her natural axis. I readily await at the end of this flesh age the first grade lessons to the TOErs the literal meaning of that word 'natural'.

These flesh vessels were created for a specific purpose and have a time date expiration already set in motion. That too is just plain natural. It is the soul/spirit intellect that gets a face to face with their Creator on judgment day. That would be called 'supernatural' but no less 'natural'. Why? Because the so called wise are completely and totally obsessed with divining how these flesh bodies came into being and willfully ignore what the LORD God said when He foretold all things.

42 posted on 05/16/2011 10:27:10 PM PDT by Just mythoughts
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To: Just mythoughts
“totally obsessed with divining how these flesh bodies came into being and willfully ignore what the LORD God said when He foretold all things”

Yeah, scientists are like TOTALLY obsessed with, like, finding things out about the physical world. They should just read the Bible - because according to justmythoughts if they don't they are following the path of the first rebel Satan - science is the way of Satan to you - but you have no ‘beef’ with it.

Discovering physical means to explain physical phenomena is science and it is the most productive way of learning about the physical world ever discovered. Figuring out (even if “totally obsessed”) how things happen physically doesn't remove God as the ultimate LOGOS behind creation.

But to some with a childlike mind and a woeful lack of education - unless God did magic it wasn't God who was responsible for its creation.

43 posted on 05/17/2011 6:35:53 AM PDT by allmendream (Tea Party did not send the GOP to D.C. to negotiate the terms of our surrender to socialism.)
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To: allmendream
Yeah, scientists are like TOTALLY obsessed with, like, finding things out about the physical world. They should just read the Bible - because according to justmythoughts if they don't they are following the path of the first rebel Satan - science is the way of Satan to you - but you have no ‘beef’ with it. Discovering physical means to explain physical phenomena is science and it is the most productive way of learning about the physical world ever discovered. Figuring out (even if “totally obsessed”) how things happen physically doesn't remove God as the ultimate LOGOS behind creation. But to some with a childlike mind and a woeful lack of education - unless God did magic it wasn't God who was responsible for its creation.

There was a direct instruction given to those that mess with the children. Time will tell whether it is me that will be red faced and embarrassed or the unholy theorists.

44 posted on 05/17/2011 7:19:27 AM PDT by Just mythoughts
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To: Just mythoughts
Science is “mess(ing) with the children”?

How so? Please expound upon your no doubt fascinating point.

And now scientists are “unholy theorists”. Yeah - but you don't have ANY animosity towards science - heavens NO!

Where would I get THAT impression? You only think science is following the path of the first rebel, Satan, and are “unholy theorists” that “mess with the children”.

LOL!!!! How hilarious!

45 posted on 05/17/2011 7:34:57 AM PDT by allmendream (Tea Party did not send the GOP to D.C. to negotiate the terms of our surrender to socialism.)
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To: Just mythoughts

46 posted on 05/17/2011 7:36:01 AM PDT by allmendream (Tea Party did not send the GOP to D.C. to negotiate the terms of our surrender to socialism.)
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To: allmendream
Science is “mess(ing) with the children”? How so? Please expound upon your no doubt fascinating point. And now scientists are “unholy theorists”. Yeah - but you don't have ANY animosity towards science - heavens NO! Where would I get THAT impression? You only think science is following the path of the first rebel, Satan, and are “unholy theorists” that “mess with the children”. LOL!!!! How hilarious!

Honey, science is what it is. When the self anointed, so called theorists, well, change that, when the supremes gave them gravitas in the classrooms, and threw GOD out they messed with the children. When a teacher tells a young child they are one and the same as the rest of the 'animal' kingdom, do NOT be surprised when the young act like well worse than animals.

The Creator, created all souls/spirits, and a bunch of self vested, self interested monkey minds that start claiming otherwise, things without foundation are going to get to answer for their claims. Science is not the problem, it is the 'animals' that preach another way that are the problem. I am not sure if the accounting will be individual or in mass.

47 posted on 05/17/2011 12:49:42 PM PDT by Just mythoughts
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To: Just mythoughts
Throw God out? How does one work God INTO a scientific theory? One cannot and have it still be science. Science is measurable replicable and predictable.

Can you measure God?

Can you replicate God or the actions of God?

Can you presume to predict God?

No. No. And NO!

So which is it. I hear from some that science promotes Secular Humanism - the turning away from God and the worship of humanity. I hear from others that science promotes the denigration of mankind as ‘just an animal’.

Which is it? It simultaneously worships man - WHILE claiming he is “just an animal”?

Science is YOUR problem - obviously. You don't understand it, you don't seem to care to understand it, you think it is the way of the first rebel and it “messes with the children”.

WILL SOMEONE PLEASE THINK OF THE CHILDREN!!!!!!!

LOL!!!

48 posted on 05/17/2011 12:55:52 PM PDT by allmendream (Tea Party did not send the GOP to D.C. to negotiate the terms of our surrender to socialism.)
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To: allmendream
Throw God out? How does one work God INTO a scientific theory? One cannot and have it still be science. Science is measurable replicable and predictable. Can you measure God? Can you replicate God or the actions of God? Can you presume to predict God? No. No. And NO! So which is it. I hear from some that science promotes Secular Humanism - the turning away from God and the worship of humanity. I hear from others that science promotes the denigration of mankind as ‘just an animal’. Which is it? It simultaneously worships man - WHILE claiming he is “just an animal”? Science is YOUR problem - obviously. You don't understand it, you don't seem to care to understand it, you think it is the way of the first rebel and it “messes with the children”. WILL SOMEONE PLEASE THINK OF THE CHILDREN!!!!!!! LOL!!!

Oh man of pride, HE who laughs last laughs for eternity.

The Creator is NOT a religion, but reality, HE controls ALLLLLL. And just as HE spoke to Job beginning in Job 38, it would be wise counsel for mere mortals to take a bit of time in processing. But then there have been hard heads from the beginning who deceived themselves they could do it better. The TOE is not going to be a part of eternity, well, except for those who get to snicker at the vanity of the flesh minds.

49 posted on 05/17/2011 1:05:54 PM PDT by Just mythoughts
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To: Just mythoughts
I didn't say God was a religion. My post didn't mention religion or use the word religion.

You seem diligent in cutting and pasting my remarks - to perhaps give the illusion that you are reading them and responding to the ideas and questions therein - but your little rants are so disassociated from what I am saying that you could very well have already typed them out and are just putting them in at random.

God controls ALLLLLLL - including gravity and nuclear fusion that forms stars, including cellular processes involving DNA that make living things, including the selective pressure that novel variations of that DNA will be subjected to, including the mutational changes that the DNA will be subjected to, including the random roll of every dice.

As such your argument doesn't even tangentially touch upon my own.

Do you propose to measure God?

Do you propose to replicate God's actions?

Do you presume to predict God?

If not then there is no way to “include” God in a scientific theory - as such your objection that science “throws out God” is based entirely upon your own ignorance of what science is and what it can and cannot do.

But you seem to think it preferable to be ignorant than to follow the ‘path of the first rebel’ (Satan) and ask questions about the natural world that might lead to an explanation involving natural phenomena!

Won't SOMEONE PLEASE think of the CHILDREN!!!!!!!

LOL!!!!

50 posted on 05/17/2011 1:24:47 PM PDT by allmendream (Tea Party did not send the GOP to D.C. to negotiate the terms of our surrender to socialism.)
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