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A look inside the world of Tucson Police S.W.A.T.
KGUN9 ^ | 5/16/2011 | KGUN9

Posted on 05/16/2011 4:49:07 PM PDT by petitfour

TUCSON (KGUN9-TV) - They are the best of the best responding to the worst situation in Tucson. Let's put it this way, when Police call 91-1 they get S.W.A.T. Little is known about the team members that make up Special Weapons and Tactics. They are the highly skilled and specially trained to handle every and any emergency.

David Ortiz, a Medic with S.W.A.T. says," The goal for the S.W.A.T. Team really is to save lives."

Before you sit side by side with the most elite part of the Tucson Police force on you to way to resolve a high risk situation, you start at the beginning, in training.

Detective Norm Scheopner with the Sex Offender Registration Tracking, says "You can never get enough training."

Patrick Nottingham, a member of S.W.A.T. explains some of the rigorous training. "Weightlifting and running of towers, changing the type of weight to get 50 refs and moving."

From the training room to the Tower. Running across the training compound the climbing six flights of stairs and back down again for more strength training.

Sgt. Robert Callan of S.W.A.T. says, "You gotta have a lot of determination. You gotta stick with it because once you go through the testing process and you get on the team it doesn't stop there it's just the beginning."

(Excerpt) Read more at kgun9.com ...


TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: guerena; joseguerena; pimacounty; swat; tucson

1 posted on 05/16/2011 4:49:12 PM PDT by petitfour
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To: petitfour

They had a medic with them when they shot that Marine and let him bleed out?


2 posted on 05/16/2011 4:53:21 PM PDT by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: petitfour

A bunch of low IQ idiots. That is the true and only definition of SWAT.


3 posted on 05/16/2011 4:56:35 PM PDT by org.whodat
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To: petitfour
"...Patrick Nottingham, a member of S.W.A.T...."

...carrying on the centuries-old family tradition of heavy-handed, abusive law enforcement. Perhaps he'll run for sheriff when Dupnik's time is over.

4 posted on 05/16/2011 4:57:32 PM PDT by Joe 6-pack (Que me amat, amet et canem meum)
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To: petitfour
They are the highly skilled and specially trained to handle every and any emergency.

Actually SWAT teams in this country are poorly trained as indicated by the dead Marine as well as cases all over this country.

There was a girl in Lima, Ohio killed holding a baby because the guy "saw a shadow". Hell, I knew more about pointing a gun and shooting at the age of 5 than that cop will ever know.
5 posted on 05/16/2011 5:00:03 PM PDT by microgood
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To: petitfour

I prefer the Mayberry RFD type of policing. Give Barney a bullet and make him carry it in his pocket.


6 posted on 05/16/2011 5:01:35 PM PDT by Dogbert41
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To: petitfour

Hahahaha; gotta love the superfatted prose. Pure bunkum, of course.


7 posted on 05/16/2011 5:01:52 PM PDT by Jack Hammer (e)
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To: petitfour
Patrick Nottingham, a member of S.W.A.T. explains some of the rigorous training.

They obviously don't do much training in fire control if they had to fire 71 rounds at a suspect that didn't fire at all.

They obviously do a lot of training in lying, because as the facts are coming out they're initial accounts are false.

8 posted on 05/16/2011 5:03:31 PM PDT by AAABEST (Et lux in tenebris lucet: et tenebrae eam non comprehenderunt)
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To: petitfour

Wow. Just WOW.


9 posted on 05/16/2011 5:09:00 PM PDT by nkycincinnatikid
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To: org.whodat
Walter Mitty Municipal Mercenaries.
10 posted on 05/16/2011 5:09:21 PM PDT by Free in Texas ("Islam is the religion of peace"...Yes, those murdered by Islamists are ever so peaceful.)
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To: driftdiver

Yes. Luckily, there was not a dod around or the round count would have been much higher.


11 posted on 05/16/2011 5:09:56 PM PDT by jospehm20
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To: jospehm20

Oops. Dog, not dod.


12 posted on 05/16/2011 5:11:08 PM PDT by jospehm20
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To: AAABEST

This is a story on the Tucson P.D. SWAT...not Pima Co. Sheriff SWAT (Dim bulb Sheriff Dupnik). Not sure why this got posted unless OP has some interest in their local Tucson SWAT team.


13 posted on 05/16/2011 5:11:11 PM PDT by Drago
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To: petitfour

Tucson, we have a problem. This is a story of a SWAT team out of control. They are more concerned with how tough they are and how well they are trained for violent action, than they are concerned about respecting the rights of citizens. Serving a warrant is not an assault up Pointe du Hoc, its a legal process that must recognize that those being served are presumed to be innocent and have a right to expect their home to be a safe haven. No doubt police may have to use force in enforcing the law, but that is a last resort, when people have clearly demonstrated resistance.

The Tucson SWAT team should be held criminally and civilly liable for their actions that resulted in the death of an innocent man protecting his family. Instead, we get this cover up nonsense from both LEOs and from their willing accomplices in the media. I wonder if all of this has anything to do with the left wing Sheriff of Pima County who was ready to convict the Tea Party of attempted murder of Congressman Gifford?


14 posted on 05/16/2011 5:12:39 PM PDT by centurion316
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To: kstewskis; yorkie

Propaganda machine racheting up a notch for the murdering jackboot thugs... ping.


15 posted on 05/16/2011 5:18:51 PM PDT by Borax Queen
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To: petitfour
Judging by the language, these guys can walk on water, too.

Either that or they caught the reporter with a baggie of pot.

16 posted on 05/16/2011 5:20:19 PM PDT by Navy Patriot (Sarah and the Conservatives will rock your world.)
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To: centurion316
They are more concerned with how tough they are and how well they are trained for violent action, than they are concerned about respecting the rights of citizens.

In another thread, dealing with Dominique Strauss-Kahn's arrest and arraignment for (allegedly) raping a hotel maid, one commentor questioned the veracity of the victims's complaint. One of the replies to him, from DesertRhino, said:

...in my experience, men who are actually the most lethal of all, exhibit an easy grace about their personal skills... They manage to be mature enough to understand that most people are not nearly as strong as they are. They even realize that protecting those weaker types, is the very reason why the warriors exist.
It occurred to me that a lot of the complainers about too-agressive police have this standard in the back of their minds.
17 posted on 05/16/2011 5:27:15 PM PDT by danielmryan
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To: jospehm20

I was trying to figure out what dod was. :)

The wife is lucky she was on with 911.


18 posted on 05/16/2011 5:34:18 PM PDT by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: centurion316

When yer a hammer, every problem is a nail.


19 posted on 05/16/2011 5:35:25 PM PDT by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: danielmryan

I spent 25 years as an infantry officer and led men in combat. I understand the importance of the warrior ethos and warrior spirit. But that ethos and spirit must be held in check to ensure that its force is only used against a legitimate enemy. When that restraint is lost, soldiers become criminals and leaders must protect both the soldiers and the innocents from that scenario.

That constraint is even more important in the civil sphere. The powers granted to the police must never be abused and their duty to protect the public must stand paramount. I have seen too much evidence that some of our law enforcement officers have forgotten this, especially in SWAT type organizations who may lack proper leadership.


20 posted on 05/16/2011 5:37:15 PM PDT by centurion316
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To: org.whodat
Actually before they were swat most were military and you would never call them low IQ.

Of course guys that sit in cubicles all day can talk like that right?

21 posted on 05/16/2011 5:38:58 PM PDT by DainBramage
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To: driftdiver

Thanks for your thoughtful insight.


22 posted on 05/16/2011 5:39:24 PM PDT by centurion316
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To: centurion316

Sure, now try to tell my I’m wrong.


23 posted on 05/16/2011 5:43:05 PM PDT by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: driftdiver

Right or wrong? How can one know? All you can do is throw out a trite phrase. When you can put your opinion into a collection of coherent sentences that we call a paragraph, I’ll certainly be happy to provide comments.


24 posted on 05/16/2011 5:52:12 PM PDT by centurion316
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To: driftdiver

Right or wrong? How can one know? All you can do is throw out a trite phrase. When you can put your opinion into a collection of coherent sentences that we call a paragraph, I’ll certainly be happy to provide comments.


25 posted on 05/16/2011 5:53:04 PM PDT by centurion316
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To: centurion316

“When you can put your opinion into a collection of coherent sentences that we call a paragraph, I’ll certainly be happy to provide comments. “

Aww someone is feelin put upon. Its more than a ‘trite phrase’, its how these jackboots are trained to do exactly what they are doing.

Imagine how many lives they could save if they did police work instead of running up and down steps and lifting weights all day. But arresting criminals isn’t as sexy as shooting automatic weapons is it.


26 posted on 05/16/2011 6:03:19 PM PDT by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: DainBramage

Wrong, most cops are two damn lazy to be in the military, and yes, I have seen the military entrance grades give to military people that become cops. Let’s just say they become cops because directing traffic does not take any brain power.


27 posted on 05/16/2011 6:09:09 PM PDT by org.whodat
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To: driftdiver

Now we’re getting somewhere. I was particularly struck by the weight lifting comment in the story. Exactly how often are well defined delts required for good police work, even in SWAT who must be expected to show some level of physical fitness. The words of these SWAT members reveal what they consider important and provide a window into the minds that pumped 70 rounds into the body of an innocent man.


28 posted on 05/16/2011 6:10:00 PM PDT by centurion316
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To: Dogbert41
I believe most Americans would be safer under those terms. Keep your bullet in your pocket.
29 posted on 05/16/2011 6:15:12 PM PDT by org.whodat
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To: petitfour

“..David Ortiz, a Medic with S.W.A.T. says,” The goal for the S.W.A.T. Team really is to save lives.” ...”

Except when they bust in firing their Little German Machine Guns and their Little German Helmets and they kill everything that moves..

But hey...anybody can make a mistake, right?


30 posted on 05/16/2011 6:33:40 PM PDT by NFHale (The Second Amendment - By Any Means Necessary.)
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To: Borax Queen; yorkie
Sounds like another puff piece, even though this is about Tucson S.W.A.T.

The particular "breed" of recruitment of police (and fire for that matter) in the last 15-20 years have changed significantly, and not for the best. Granted, the gang and other violence problems, especially in AZ, have escalated significantly during that time period, so their level of intense training should go up accordingly.

That said, I'm reckoning many of the veterans (both active, and retired) can attest to their observations of this "new breed" who are on board with these special teams; especially working with some of these colleagues. Some have spoken up here on this thread, and I applaud them for being honest. Critical thinking is of utmost importance and priority, not reactionary.

31 posted on 05/16/2011 6:35:14 PM PDT by kstewskis ("Tolerance is what happens when one loses their principles"..... Fr. A. Saenz)
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To: org.whodat
LOL havent been around many swat teams have you ? Very very funny.

I notice no argument to being cubicle bound lol.

32 posted on 05/16/2011 6:36:30 PM PDT by DainBramage
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To: DainBramage

The cubicle statement was a very childish statement on your part, my desk was known as the bosses office. And one of my old drinking buds was an under cover Lt., had the same opinion of SWAT as me.


33 posted on 05/16/2011 6:46:52 PM PDT by org.whodat
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To: org.whodat

Where? Mayberry?


34 posted on 05/16/2011 6:51:07 PM PDT by DainBramage
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To: petitfour
David Ortiz, a Medic with S.W.A.T. says," The goal for the S.W.A.T. Team really is to save lives."

...and I'll kill anyone who says otherwise.

35 posted on 05/16/2011 6:54:01 PM PDT by rockrr (Everything is different now...)
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To: petitfour

I’m sorry, but I detest what SWAT represents.

Anybody drawing a government paycheck while wearing body armor and a helmet and carrying a full-auto weapon — that is a soldier of the king, not a cop.

I also have heartburn with the whole SWAT mission. Except for a long-ago bank robbery in California that turned into a firefight, I have never seen ONE incident that required SWAT firepower. Riot control does not require full-auto weapons, unless we’ve turned into Syria.

IMHO, your “local” SWAT team is just a paramilitary organization looking for a war to fight. Disband them all and call the National Guard if muscle is needed.


36 posted on 05/16/2011 7:22:58 PM PDT by DNME (There are wolves and there are sheep. Concealed carry makes us sheepdogs.)
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To: centurion316
I spent 25 years as an infantry officer and led men in combat. I understand the importance of the warrior ethos and warrior spirit. But that ethos and spirit must be held in check to ensure that its force is only used against a legitimate enemy. When that restraint is lost, soldiers become criminals and leaders must protect both the soldiers and the innocents from that scenario.

That constraint is even more important in the civil sphere. The powers granted to the police must never be abused and their duty to protect the public must stand paramount. I have seen too much evidence that some of our law enforcement officers have forgotten this, especially in SWAT type organizations who may lack proper leadership.

I congratulate you for your service. You have put your thumb on the problem, and your post gave me something to think over.

The question remains, how did it get so bad? Perhaps the new breed of police are taking war metaphors to heart, and taking them literally. The trouble is, a police force that literally believes they're fighting a "War on _______" drift into acting like they're an occupying army if they stop identifying with ordinary citizenry.

Have you noticed the less shocking cases of police overagressiveness get triggered when the police officer in question feels disrepected? It's uncomfortably close to how the gang-bangers act, even if the two are quite dissimilar in other respects.

Maybe the trouble comes with letting combat veterans into the police force. A soldier saying that wise-acre or peckerwooding civilians are "spoiled and undisciplined" works well because soldiers are sworn to protect all civilians from foreign aggression. Pegging disrespectful civilians in that way saves the ears, and doesn't change the underlying fidelity of the soldiers.

The trouble is, police officers have to divide civilians into two groups: law-abiding and criminal. The demarcation line is not at all obvious, except when the police officer catches a perp red-handed. Naturally, for officer safety as well as common sense, police are inclined to peg the dubious cases as criminal types.

A soldier doesn't have to divide civilians up; all of them are entitled to protection from the foreign foe. When "spoiled and undisciplied" mutates into "spoiled-ass civilians," though, police are tempted to throw undeferential citizens into the suspected-criminal group - and thus peg them as the enemy.

I could be wrong. In the olden days, a cop who believed "I am the law" was an accident waiting to happen. He was tempted to interpret criticism or disrespect of him, even as a person, as evidence of criminality. The same temptation went with criticism of his job performance, unless the complainer called him too soft on crime. That attitude had nothing to to with veterans entering the police force, and it long predates combat veterans going in to police work.

37 posted on 05/16/2011 7:49:13 PM PDT by danielmryan
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To: danielmryan

Good soldiers and good police officers are cut from the same cloth. Men and women who volunteer for a higher calling. Unfortunately, the bad ones also come from that same piece of cloth. The difference is leadership. Good leaders make good soldiers and good cops. Bad leaders turn good troops into bad ones. In this particular case, the Sheriff of Pima County, and the Chief of Police of Tucson are both prime suspects. They have both been on the news of late, and they are both very suspect.


38 posted on 05/16/2011 8:05:34 PM PDT by centurion316
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To: danielmryan

It’s not working. We need to have a militia the way Israel does. Everyone goes in at 18 and when they come out, they bring their weapons with them and then do a month a year until they are old. That way, there are no “special” people with higher citizenships than the average Joe. Everywhere a cop goes, he sees allies instead of sheep.


39 posted on 05/16/2011 10:44:28 PM PDT by Dogbert41
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To: DainBramage; org.whodat
"Actually before they were swat most were military and you would never call them low IQ."

I have a a high degree of respect for our armed forces, but -- being a veteran -- I would actually agree that low IQs are more prevalent in the military (and on SWAT teams) than in the total populace.

It is surprising how little IQ is required to be trainable to dumbly follow orders and to lug a ruck and rifle...

As one old sergeant told me, "Boy, you don't want to get out [of the military]. If you do, you'll have to compete with them people out there!"

SWAT members are the lowest-IQ ex-grunts who couldn't compete for real civilian jobs requiring intelligence and a work ethic...

40 posted on 05/17/2011 8:22:13 AM PDT by TXnMA ("Allah": Satan's current alias...)
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To: DainBramage; org.whodat
"Actually before they were swat most were military and you would never call them low IQ."

I have a a high degree of respect for our armed forces, but -- being a veteran -- I would actually agree that low IQs are more prevalent in the military (and on SWAT teams) than in the total populace.

It is surprising how little IQ is required to be trainable to dumbly follow orders and to lug a ruck and rifle...

As one old sergeant told me, "Boy, you don't want to get out [of the military]. If you do, you'll have to compete with them people out there!"

SWAT members are the lowest-IQ ex-grunts who couldn't compete for real civilian jobs requiring intelligence and a work ethic...

41 posted on 05/17/2011 8:22:29 AM PDT by TXnMA ("Allah": Satan's current alias...)
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To: petitfour
Rambo training. That's very nice.

But do they get any training on how to peacefully enter a house and serve a Constitutional warrant (assuming they have one) to a legitimate, innocent homeowner with a wife and family rather than break down the door and charge in with guns blazing and mowing the unfortunate, surprised Marine veteran Dad down because he thinks it is a home invasion and is protecting his family?

That would be even nicer. I would prefer that to hearing about their superhuman abilities to run up six flights of stairs, do weight curls, practice shock tactics, and be super-macho!

42 posted on 05/17/2011 8:40:36 AM PDT by Gritty (Judicial evidence is an archaic bourgeois detail - Ernesto "Che" Guevara)
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