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Are the Jews the Chosen People?
Townhall.com ^ | May 17, 2011 | Dennis Prager

Posted on 05/17/2011 8:06:47 AM PDT by Kaslin

I assume that the type of person who reads columns such as this one has wondered at one time or another why, for thousands of years, there has been so much attention paid to Jews and why, today, to Israel, the one Jewish state.

But how do most people explain this preoccupation? There is no fully rational explanation for the amount of attention paid to the Jews and the Jewish state. And there is no fully rational explanation for the amount of hatred directed at Jews and the Jewish state.

A lifetime of study of this issue, including writing (with Rabbi Joseph Telushkin) a book on anti-Semitism ("Why the Jews? The Reason for Antisemitism") has convinced me that, along with all the rational explanations, there is one explanation that transcends reason alone.

It is that the Jews are God's chosen people.

Now, believe me, dear reader, I am well aware of the hazards of making such a claim.

It sounds chauvinistic. It sounds racist. And it sounds irrational, if not bizarre.

But it is none of these.

As regards chauvinism, there is not a hint of inherent superiority in the claim of Jewish chosen-ness. In fact, the Jewish Bible, the book that states the Jews are chosen, constantly berates the Jews for their flawed moral behavior. No bible of any other religion is so critical of the religious group affiliated with that bible as the Hebrew Scriptures are of the Jews.

As for racism, Jewish chosen-ness cannot be racist by definition. Here is why: a) The Jews are not a race; there are Jews of every race. And b) any person of any race, ethnicity or nationality can become a member of the Jewish people and thereby be as chosen as Abraham, Moses, Jeremiah or the chief rabbi of Israel.

And with regard to chosen-ness being an irrational or even bizarre claim, it must be so only to atheists. They don't believe in a Chooser, so they cannot believe in a Chosen. But for most believing Jews and Christians (most particularly the Founders who saw America as a Second Israel, a second Chosen People), Jewish Chosen-ness has been a given. And even the atheist must look at the evidence and conclude that the Jews play a role in history that defies reason.

Can reason alone explain how a hodgepodge of ex-slaves was able to change history -- to introduce the moral God-Creator we know as God; to write the world's most influential book, the Bible; to devise ethical monotheism; to be the only civilization to deny the cyclical worldview and give humanity belief in a linear (i.e., purposeful) history; to provide morality-driven prophets and so much more -- without God playing the decisive role in this people's history?

Without the Jews, there would be no Christianity (a fact acknowledged by the great majority of Christians) and no Islam (a fact acknowledged by almost no Muslims). Read Thomas Cahill's "The Gifts of the Jews" or Paul Johnson's "A History of the Jews" to get an idea about how much this people changed history.

What further renders the claim for Jewish chosen-ness worthy of rational consideration is that virtually every other nation has perceived itself as chosen or otherwise divinely special. For example, China means "Middle Kingdom" in Chinese -- meaning that China is at the center of the world; and Japan considers itself the land where the sun originates ("Land of the Rising Sun"). The difference between Jewish chosen-ness and other nations' similar claims is that no one cares about any other group considering itself Chosen, while vast numbers of non-Jews have either believed the Jews' claim or have hated the Jews for it.

Perhaps the greatest evidence for the Jews' chosen-ness has been provided in modern times, during which time evil has consistently targeted the Jews:

-- Nazi Germany was more concerned with exterminating the Jews than with winning World War II.

-- Throughout its 70-year history, the Soviet Union persecuted its Jews and tried to extinguish Judaism. Hatred of Jews was one thing communists and Nazis shared.

-- The United Nations has spent more time discussing and condemning the Jewish state than any other country in the world. Yet, this state is smaller than every Central American country, including El Salvador, Panama and even Belize. Imagine if the amount of attention paid to Israel were paid to Belize -- who would not think there was something extraordinary about that country?

-- Much of the contemporary Muslim world -- and nearly all the Arab world -- is obsessed with annihilating the one Jewish state.

In the words of Catholic scholar Father Edward Flannery, the Jews carry the burden of God in history. Most Jews, being secular, do not believe this. And many Jews dislike talk of chosen-ness because they fear it will increase anti-Semitism; they may be right.

But it doesn't alter the fact that the obsession with one of the smallest countries and smallest peoples on earth, and the unique hatred of the Jews and the Jewish state by the world's most vicious ideologies, can be best explained only in transcendent terms. Namely that God, for whatever reason, chose the Jews.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Editorial; Israel
KEYWORDS: chosenpeople; israel; jews
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To: DManA

“Then why the emphasis on genealogies in the Bible?”

Genealogies define “family lineage” and not necessarily “race”, for more than one “race” may be in that lineage.


101 posted on 05/17/2011 12:26:35 PM PDT by Wuli
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To: phillyfanatic
Yep, another biased belief and that’s just the way things are.

Indeed.


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If you can't appreciate the pure beauty of the violin after hearing this, something's wrong with your ears.

Or you can get raw with these strings. Either way, the violin is sweet yet lethal.

Do it!

102 posted on 05/17/2011 12:30:43 PM PDT by rdb3 (Knowledge without God only produces intellectual barbarians.)
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To: dennisw
Yes, and nice-looking women.

Do you really want a picture of a building or boat in Eliat?


103 posted on 05/17/2011 12:42:42 PM PDT by Jewbacca (The residents of Iroquois territory may not determine whether Jews may live in Jerusalem.)
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To: DManA
“Racially what is the difference between an Arab and an ethnic Jew?”

"Racially" not much.

104 posted on 05/17/2011 12:48:44 PM PDT by Wuli
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To: NEW YORKCITYGOPMAN

Thanks for the laugh.

Either you are Jewish or the joke was first told by someone who is.


105 posted on 05/17/2011 12:51:37 PM PDT by Wuli
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To: shield
Ruth was an Israelite

But Ruth replied, “Don’t urge me to leave you or to turn back from you. Where you go I will go, and where you stay I will stay. Your people will be my people and your God my God."

Kind of an odd thing for an Israelite, who already shared a people and a God with Naomi, to say. But perfectly logical for a Moabite woman. It was her announcement of conversion.

The Bible has nothing at all that indicates in its text that Ruth wasn't a "real" Moabite. It just says she was a Moabite. Where do you get your information

.so was Rahab. Rahab was also an inn keeper not a harlot.

I'll give you the not harlot bit, although the Hebrew is at best ambiguous.

But what exactly was an Israelite woman doing running an inn in a Canaanite city when the Israelites had just come out of the desert.

There is also the fairly obvious fact that Joshua made a specific exception for Rahab's entire family from being destroyed. Would seem less necessary for him to do so it they had been Israelites rather than Canaanites. Also seems like he would have mentioned such a striking fact in his proclamation. Like, "Don't kill the people in Rahab's house, they're all Israelites."

The Bible doesn't allow much justification of ethnic pride. For instance, Moses' wife was a Cushite, which probably means what we would call black.

Moses' wife Miriam got racist about this, and God struck her with leprosy as a punishment. God apparently doesn't approve of racism, even by his chosen people.

Also, during the Exodus "a great mixed company" accompanied the children of Israel. When they entered the Promised Land there is no mention of them. The obvious conclusion is they were fully assimilated during the 40 years in the desert.

106 posted on 05/17/2011 1:12:12 PM PDT by Sherman Logan
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To: Sherman Logan

You happen to have it wrong especially on Miriam and Moses’ wife. Miriam did have the wrong attitude but not for the reason you think you know. There were important reasons for Jesus to have been born through a pure line of Israelites...and your deduction on Ruth blows that aspect apart.


107 posted on 05/17/2011 1:35:00 PM PDT by shield (Rev2:9 "Woe unto those who say they are Judah and are not, but are of the synaGOGue of Satan.")
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To: Sherman Logan

Biblically, the Jewish people must trace their lineage back to all three patriarchs: Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. From a Biblical point of view, Jewish geneologies are paternally determined as opposed to other methods developed by the Jewish people over the centuries, such as a Jewish person is so if his/her mother is Jewish, if he/she is a gentile (non-Jew) cultural ‘proselyte’, etc. If a male Israelite married a Moabitess, for example Boaz marrying Ruth, their offspring were 100% Jewish, in Scripture.

Again, biblically, Jewish people are so because of their pedigree which must include Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. Most Jewish tribal geneologies were lost after the destruction of Jerusalem, 70 CE, although surnames such as “Levy, Levi, Cohen,” etc. point to the Levitical tribe.

Scripture clearly delineates between 2 sets of people in 2 different ways:

Jews
non-Jews (goyim, gentiles)

believers, God-fearers
nonbelievers, pagans, apostates

One can be Jewish and a God-fearer
One can be Jewish and a nonbeliever (atheist, agnostic, etc.)
One cannot be Jewish and gentile (*biblically speaking only* where the father determines lineage)

Oh, and since many of the prophecies have not yet been fulfilled for Israel, God is NOT finished with His chosen people. God is always, always, always a promise-keeper, though His timetable out-spans our brief lifetimes. Beware reformed theology that “spiritualizes” away all the promises for Israel in the Tenach by suggesting “Israel” = the Church.

“Do not cause anyone to stumble, whether Jews, Greeks (gentiles), OR the church of God.” 1 Cor. 10:32


108 posted on 05/17/2011 1:41:49 PM PDT by Ironist
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To: shield
There were important reasons for Jesus to have been born through a pure line of Israelites

Might be important, but it didn't happen. Let's leave aside all the unknown foreign wives that were never recorded.

The minimal record we have, mostly of the women in the royal line of his ancestry, indicates numerous Ammonite, Egyptian, Tyrian and other foreign mothers of the kings.

Christ's human ancestry, like that of every other person on the planet, was not "pure," it was thoroughly mixed.

The Israelites themselves were never a "pure" race, in fact their Law contained specific provisions for marrying foreign women captured in battle. As one example, Joseph married an Egyptian women. Therefore, his two eponymous sons, Ephraim and Manasseh, were half-Egyptian.

109 posted on 05/17/2011 1:51:45 PM PDT by Sherman Logan
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To: Ironist

Your post is almost 100% wrong.

The father determines the tribe, the mother whether one is Jewish or not.

A convert to Judaism is 100% Jewish, with the only restriction being a female convert cannot marry a Cohen (but her kids could).


110 posted on 05/17/2011 2:06:14 PM PDT by Jewbacca (The residents of Iroquois territory may not determine whether Jews may live in Jerusalem.)
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To: Ironist

Your post is almost 100% wrong.

The father determines the tribe, the mother whether one is Jewish or not.

A convert to Judaism is 100% Jewish, with the only restriction being a female convert cannot marry a Cohen (but her kids could).


111 posted on 05/17/2011 2:06:31 PM PDT by Jewbacca (The residents of Iroquois territory may not determine whether Jews may live in Jerusalem.)
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To: Ironist

“If a male Israelite married a Moabitess, for example Boaz marrying Ruth, their offspring were 100% Jewish, in Scripture.”

Only because Ruth converted.


112 posted on 05/17/2011 2:08:50 PM PDT by Jewbacca (The residents of Iroquois territory may not determine whether Jews may live in Jerusalem.)
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To: Kaslin

Yes.


113 posted on 05/17/2011 2:29:05 PM PDT by Liberty Valance (Keep a simple manner for a happy life :o)
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To: Sherman Logan

Joseph married Asenath her father was Pontipher the Priest of the City of ON which was built by Enoch. The Priest were from the line of Seth. This is the reason Jacob/Israel made both of Joseph and Asenath’s Sons a tribe because of their pure lineage. Joseph adhered strictly to the teachings of Jacob. Your deductions remind me of the universal church spoken of in Revelation.


114 posted on 05/17/2011 3:02:38 PM PDT by shield (Rev2:9 "Woe unto those who say they are Judah and are not, but are of the synaGOGue of Satan.")
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To: AdmSmith; AnonymousConservative; Berosus; bigheadfred; ColdOne; Convert from ECUSA; Delacon; ...

Just think how much trouble they’d be in if they weren’t, eh? Thanks Kaslin.


115 posted on 05/17/2011 3:08:56 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (Thanks Cincinna for this link -- http://www.friendsofitamar.org)
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To: shield

Oh, dear.

Seth was the son of Adam and Even, an ancestor of Noah. Thus all living today are descended from him, since we are all descended from Noah. We are all of the line of Seth.

Enoch was the great-grandfather of Noah. Anything he built was obviously destroyed by the Flood.

Asenath means “holy to Anath,” a major Semitic goddess. There is absolutely no reason from the Biblical account to assume Potiphera (means “he whom Ra has given”) and his daughter were anything but the obvious, worshippers of pagan gods, although we can assume Asenath became a worshipper of the true God after her marriage.


116 posted on 05/17/2011 3:19:39 PM PDT by Sherman Logan
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To: dennisw; Cachelot; Nix 2; veronica; Catspaw; knighthawk; Alouette; Optimist; weikel; Lent; GregB; ..
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117 posted on 05/17/2011 4:14:57 PM PDT by SJackson (Normal people don't sit cross-legged on the floor and bang on drums, WI State Sen Glenn Grothman (R))
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To: Sherman Logan

Man of the Covenant Promise. As a friend of God and of man who implicitly trusted the divine promises,Abraham was the recipient of an important covenant involving not only himself but his posterity, natural as well as spiritual. The Abrahamic Covenant as originally given. [ Gen. 12;1-4]and reaffirmed [Gen.13;14-17] [Gen.15;1-7] Also read Genesis 12 on.This is why God chose the jews and God is sovereign.


118 posted on 05/17/2011 4:26:44 PM PDT by primrose (PRIMROSE)
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To: Jewbacca
I have heard it expressed that “converts” are not actually “converts” but Jewish people born to other families, for whatever reason. The deal was struck at Mt. Sinai with all future, present, and past Jewish souls.

Jewish souls finding their way back after what may or have not been a difficult geneological journey.

119 posted on 05/17/2011 4:28:42 PM PDT by SJackson (Normal people don't sit cross-legged on the floor and bang on drums, WI State Sen Glenn Grothman (R))
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To: DManA
So how would you respond specifically to Prager’s assertion: The Jews are not a race; there are Jews of every race.

Well, there are Jews of every races. A simple google search should clear that up for you.

120 posted on 05/17/2011 4:35:59 PM PDT by SJackson (Normal people don't sit cross-legged on the floor and bang on drums, WI State Sen Glenn Grothman (R))
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To: mas cerveza por favor
You are saying the Apostles believed that Jews who did not follow Jesus remained the Chosen People? Please cite.

Romans 9, 10 and 11...

Rom 11:7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded
Rom 11:8 (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear;) unto this day.

Rom 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

121 posted on 05/17/2011 4:36:31 PM PDT by Iscool (I don't understand all that I know...)
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To: Kaslin

ABSOLUTELY INDEED.

However, the naysayers should be along any minute to shred every bit of you they can shred.

It’s a compulsive obsession with them.


122 posted on 05/17/2011 4:43:48 PM PDT by Quix (Times are a changin' INSURE you have believed in your heart & confessed Jesus as Lord Come NtheFlesh)
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To: Kaslin

Dennis Prager is a good conservative, and he’s good when that is what he is arguing for, however, he leaves me when he leaves off arguing for conservative issues, and starts pushing Judaism, and that to a largely Christian conservative audience. This lead article of his is prime example.

I’ve heard his program quite a few times, it seems lately more and more Judaism has become the purpose of his radio show. I’ve even heard him on quite a few occasions pushing the Jewish Kabbalah, which he apparently believes in quite devoutly. Which is a pagan-Gnostic mixture of mysticism, sorcery, witchcraft, and magic. I find that incredible. Does he not know that such things might be fine and dandy with him and his fellow Kabbalists, but is abominable to Bible believing Christianity?

Meanwhile, never have I heard him even mention Jesus Christ. Does he believe, like most Jews, Jesus Christ is a hoax? He pushes antichristian Judaism, never revealing to his mostly Christian conservative audience what he believes about Christ.

The dispensationalists and the John Hagee types eat it all up, of course, Prager like a pied piper leading them around by the nose. Never catching what Prager is doing. I mentioned John Hagee, he has gone so far with his dual covenant doctrine that he has written in one of his books that Jesus is not the Messiah. Hagee has Jews so special that they don’t need Jesus to be saved, they have their own covenant.

As to the dispensationalists, since what they believe is nothing but a form of Judaized Eschatology anyway, they are lock-step with anything Prager does. Kabbalist witchcraft and all.

Dispensationalist make the mistake of identifying modern Judaism with Old Testament Judaism. What they fail to realize is Old Testament Judaism and modern day Talmudic/Kabbalist Judaism are two very different things. Modern day Judaism is a syncretism of Torah and Pagan philosophy (Kabbalah). Similar to the syncretism of their forefathers, which caused them to be carried away to Babylon. The Talmud and Kabbalah are not the Bible, they are extrabiblical, similar to what the book of Mormon is to Mormonism.

Dispensationalists, of course, could care less, God’s chosen people have an unconditional relationship with God. Jeremiah wouldn’t agree with them.


123 posted on 05/17/2011 5:16:46 PM PDT by sasportas
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To: Iscool
Rom 11:7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded

The elect of Israel followed Christ and those who did not were, of course, not the elect.

Rom 11:8-10 (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear;) unto this day. And David saith, Let their table be made a snare, and a trap, and a stumblingblock, and a recompence unto them: Let their eyes be darkened, that they may not see, and bow down their back alway.

This appears to be punishment for rejecting the Messiah.

Rom 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

Indeed, it would be conceit and "that blindness in part is happened to Israel" for someone to think he is elect just for a being a Christian.

124 posted on 05/17/2011 5:18:29 PM PDT by mas cerveza por favor
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To: sasportas
I mentioned John Hagee, he has gone so far with his dual covenant doctrine that he has written in one of his books that Jesus is not the Messiah.

Hagee: "Jesus did not come as the Messiah"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7m6pPnQjn7w

125 posted on 05/17/2011 5:30:25 PM PDT by mas cerveza por favor
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To: Kaslin; windcliff; stylecouncilor

There is something profound in the concept of One God, beyond the Sun, Moon and stars. Even time. How could Abraham and the Torah writers have seen this? Indeed how could they even have looked into existence through their primitiveness and seen its essence so deeply?

Choseness? Yes, I would say so.


126 posted on 05/17/2011 5:56:38 PM PDT by onedoug (If)
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To: sasportas

I don´t think Prager ¨pushes¨ Judaism more than it frames his understanding of the world in general. Judaism professes great tolerance and insists that all peoples - Jew and non-Jew alike - will have a share in the world to come.

And I´ve also heard him say many times of Kabalah that it´s too mystical for his tastes, and that he´s not really into mysticism at all.

When he mentions Jesus it´s in the most reverential terms. He was feted a year or two ago by an Arvada CO church for a night in support of Israel just off a plane from Puerto Rico in which American Airlines had lost his luggage and was given a kippah by a Christian at the church. His talk at that event was about Judeo-Christian America and how unique that is in the world.

I´d listen just a little more closely.


127 posted on 05/17/2011 6:18:48 PM PDT by onedoug (If)
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To: onedoug

Thanks, onedoug. I guess you and I must have heard different programs, the times I heard Prager he sounded like he was on the side of the Kabbalists. He was defending witchcraft and magic saying it isn’t all that bad, etc.

There is only a minority of Jews who are not Talmudic/Kabbalists nowadays - Karaite Jews, they are vehement against both Talmud and Kabbalah, holding the Torah only. For which their fellow Jews have persecuted them terribly throughout the centuries, almost to the point of extinction.

The Karaites are what Christians would identify with as Old Testament Judaism. Ask one of them, and they will tell you in no uncertain terms that it was for what you see in the Kabbalah that Jerusalem was overthrown in 600 BC.


128 posted on 05/17/2011 6:44:20 PM PDT by sasportas
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To: sasportas

I´m not Jewish by birth, but have been to synagogues of all modern trends in Judaism, particularly Orthodox. You can´t really link phrases like ¨Talmud/Kabbalists¨ since they are two separate things. With the exception of one elderly Conservative rabbi, I´ve never known religious Jews to make any big deal over Kaballah. It´s talked about to be sure, but seldom seems more than something best left for specialists, so-called. Obviously, I don´t fancy it either.

Talmud, on the other hand, is a sort of case law compendium of commenteries of and about Torah. It would seem difficult to conceive of modern rabbinic Judaism being handed down from antiquity without Talmud....


129 posted on 05/17/2011 7:32:31 PM PDT by onedoug (If)
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To: onedoug
It would seem difficult to conceive of modern rabbinic Judaism being handed down from antiquity without Talmud....

Why so difficult? Christians do all right with just the Old Testament scripture handed down to us. The Karaites would sharply disagree with you. They have only the Old Testament, yet they do all right.

130 posted on 05/17/2011 7:58:51 PM PDT by sasportas
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To: sasportas
>> What they fail to realize is Old Testament Judaism and >> modern day Talmudic/Kabbalist Judaism are two very >> different things. Modern day Judaism is a syncretism of >> Torah and Pagan philosophy (Kabbalah). You have the nerve to talk here about paganism given the very pronounced pagan motives, beliefs and practices of the most forms of mainstream Christianity over the last 2000 years. Stuff like the theology trinity, the "son of God" , the widespread veneration of icons in the eastern Christianity, the openly idolatrous veneration of the statues of Mary and saints in the Catholic church, the VERY pagan origins of modern "Christmas" and "Easter - all of these things ANTI-Torah both in essence and in practice - I could go on and on. What I find again and again on these threads is the inability of the majority of non-Jews again and again to grasp the basic concepts of monotheism, the belif in One, True God. Some crucial piece of the puzzle is missing. Maybe a Jewish neshamah. If anything, it makes me revisit my own Jewishness and reevaluate some things I may have been taking for granted. Maybe we are that much different. Like oil and water.
131 posted on 05/17/2011 9:46:16 PM PDT by JadeEmperor
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To: mas cerveza por favor
So all the Apostles, Fathers, Doctors, councils, and even Protestant Reformers were wrong on this fundamental issue?

The Apostles didn't teach replacementalism.

Regarding the rest of your list, anyone that ever taught that the "church" replaces Israel is incorrect, unbiblical and at least partially responsible for much of the damage done through history by Christians who believe they replace Israel in God's plan.

132 posted on 05/17/2011 10:09:02 PM PDT by Guyin4Os (A messianic ger-tsedek)
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To: JadeEmperor

I am not Roman Catholic. I am opposed to forms of paganism in Christianity. For instance, I do not observe Christmas or Easter...

These forms of syncretism are widely known, the enemies of Christianity, such as yourself, never fail to remind us. It gets publicized all the time. I make no claim that Christianity is free from paganism.

Not so though about Judaism. Such things as I have pointed out are NOT widely known. It is Judaism that claims to be free from paganism, and uses their supposed pagan-free status as a weapon against Christianity, while their form of paganism is much worse. I asked a Karaite Jew one time his opinion of the Kabbalah, he minced no words, he said it was idolatry, witchcraft, and sorcery. The same sort of thing that caused Jerusalem to be destroyed in 600 BC, he said.

While both Judaism and Christianity has these things that are wrong and sinful, and no excuse should be made for them, unbelief of Jesus Messiah is the greater sin.


133 posted on 05/17/2011 10:37:33 PM PDT by sasportas
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To: mas cerveza por favor
I mentioned John Hagee, he has gone so far with his dual covenant doctrine that he has written in one of his books that Jesus is not the Messiah.

Hagee: "Jesus did not come as the Messiah"

Why is it you guys can't ever tell it the way you hear it...You always have to add something or leave something out to change the story...And then pretend your story is the real one...Hagee did not say Jesus in NOT the Messiah...Hagee said Jesus did not come (the first time) as the Messiah...

134 posted on 05/18/2011 6:27:10 AM PDT by Iscool (I don't understand all that I know...)
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To: Iscool

I paraphrased Hagee, mas cerveza por favor gave the more precise quote. But regardless, judging by your reaction, I got my point across.

Surely you are not agreeing with Hagee saying Jesus did not come as the Messiah?


135 posted on 05/18/2011 8:47:12 AM PDT by sasportas
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To: sasportas
Modern day Judaism is a syncretism of Torah and Pagan philosophy (Kabbalah)

Where do you get this stuff? Some people take Kabbalah too far to be sure but they are not mainstream Judaism.

On the other hand, Chritianity is the syncretic religion. It is the original mormonism. The New Testament is "not in the (Hebrew)bible".

Many other religions at the time of Jesus taught..a virgin birth...resurrected gods...a sacred meal (eucharist)...a god-man hybrid savior..etc.

None of these are even remotely Jewish teaching. They were grafted into the new testament by grecco-roman thought.

136 posted on 05/18/2011 9:47:07 AM PDT by blasater1960 (Deut 30, Psalm 111...the Torah and the Law, is attainable past, present and forever.)
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To: sasportas

ROFLMAO


137 posted on 05/18/2011 9:58:32 AM PDT by Jewbacca (The residents of Iroquois territory may not determine whether Jews may live in Jerusalem.)
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To: JadeEmperor

Well said! Christianity is the original mormonism when you think of it. They have dragged all sorts of pagan concepts out and tried to shoe-horn them into Judaism as “the new covenant”.


138 posted on 05/18/2011 9:59:38 AM PDT by blasater1960 (Deut 30, Psalm 111...the Torah and the Law, is attainable past, present and forever.)
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To: sasportas

“Karaite Jews, they are vehement against both Talmud and Kabbalah, holding the Torah only.”

Actually, they consider the Talmud advisory, like a commentary, and not divinely inspired. They reach much of the same results.

“For which their fellow Jews have persecuted them terribly throughout the centuries, almost to the point of extinction.”

News to me. They appeared in 700 CE in Iraq, became quite numerous, and their persecutors were muslims.

There are probably 75,000 in Israel now, including one of my IDF roomates. We got along fine, except he would unplug the refridgerator on Shabbos because he did not want to pay for electricity that day, as that would be “going to the marketplace.” Turned off the A/C, too. Pissed me off.


139 posted on 05/18/2011 10:09:29 AM PDT by Jewbacca (The residents of Iroquois territory may not determine whether Jews may live in Jerusalem.)
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To: Jewbacca

Oh, the other major factor in limiting the number of Karaite Jews was the Spanish Inquisition, as they were forced to covert or die.


140 posted on 05/18/2011 10:18:41 AM PDT by Jewbacca (The residents of Iroquois territory may not determine whether Jews may live in Jerusalem.)
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To: sasportas
When I end my prayers I say, "In Jesus's name I pray" because I pray to a thirty-one year old Jewish carpenter - the Chosen One who passes my prayers on to God - and intercedes on my behalf...

I believe Jews are the Chosen People - and in my own cowardly little way - I'm thankful I don't have to take the pressure and challenges they've had to face and will face in the future. My home, attic and basement will always be available to protect Jews from their enemies - my voice and heart also.

Christians are the evangelicals - recruiting heathens to the Hebrew God. Remember sasportas, we're on the same team with the Jews.

141 posted on 05/18/2011 10:24:55 AM PDT by GOPJ (Osama bin SEALed - http://www.citizenwarrior.com/2009/05/terrifying-brilliance-of-islam.html)
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To: Jewbacca

I wish FR had a “like” button so I could click it for your posts...thanks!


142 posted on 05/18/2011 10:26:35 AM PDT by magritte ("There are moments, Jeeves, when one asks oneself "Do trousers matter?")
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To: magritte

You’re sweet!

If there was a “like” button, you’d pick up all the threads where I vote “guilty” or “not guilty” on female defendants, and it would ruin my credibility.


143 posted on 05/18/2011 11:41:14 AM PDT by Jewbacca (The residents of Iroquois territory may not determine whether Jews may live in Jerusalem.)
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To: blasater1960
Where do you get this stuff? Some people take Kabbalah too far to be sure but they are not mainstream Judaism.

Mainstream Judaism is what is represented by the Karaites, not Talmudic Judaism...and certainly not the Kabbalists. You gloss over Kabbalah.
On the other hand, Chritianity is the syncretic religion. It is the original mormonism. The New Testament is "not in the (Hebrew)bible".

Read again what I said, Christianity has its syncretic elements, with a remnant that is not. Same with Judaism, the Karaites being the latter, anti-Talmud and anti-Kabbalah. Are you comparing Jesus Christ with Joseph Smith? I wonder if Dennis Prager agrees with you.
Many other religions at the time of Jesus taught..a virgin birth...resurrected gods...a sacred meal (eucharist)...a god-man hybrid savior..etc. None of these are even remotely Jewish teaching. They were grafted into the new testament by grecco-roman thought.

This is the line Albert Pike, the Luciferian, antichristian, prophet of Freemasonry, takes. Pike, you know, who says the Kabbalah is the basis of Freemasonry. Basing much of their Jewish-like religion on Solomon's temple and various other Jewish symbols. Sounds like you would have a lot in common. Are you a Mason?

144 posted on 05/18/2011 12:25:30 PM PDT by sasportas
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To: sasportas
Repost:

Where do you get this stuff? Some people take Kabbalah too far to be sure but they are not mainstream Judaism.

Mainstream Judaism is what is represented by the Karaites, not Talmudic Judaism...and certainly not the Kabbalists. You gloss over Kabbalah.

On the other hand, Chritianity is the syncretic religion. It is the original mormonism. The New Testament is "not in the (Hebrew)bible".

Read again what I said, Christianity has its syncretic elements, with a remnant that is not. Same with Judaism, the Karaites being the latter, anti-Talmud and anti-Kabbalah. Are you comparing Jesus Christ with Joseph Smith? I wonder if Dennis Prager agrees with you.

Many other religions at the time of Jesus taught..a virgin birth...resurrected gods...a sacred meal (eucharist)...a god-man hybrid savior..etc. None of these are even remotely Jewish teaching. They were grafted into the new testament by grecco-roman thought.

This is the line Albert Pike, the Luciferian, antichristian, prophet of Freemasonry, takes. Pike, you know, who says the Kabbalah is the basis of Freemasonry. Basing much of their Jewish-like religion on Solomon's temple and various other Jewish symbols. Sounds like you would have a lot in common. Are you a Mason?

145 posted on 05/18/2011 12:53:39 PM PDT by sasportas
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To: Jewbacca
Oh, the other major factor in limiting the number of Karaite Jews was the Spanish Inquisition, as they were forced to covert or die.

Was that about the time Christopher Columbus had to set sail?


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If you can't appreciate the pure beauty of the violin after hearing this, something's wrong with your ears.

Or you can get raw with these strings. Either way, the violin is sweet yet lethal.

Do it!

146 posted on 05/18/2011 1:07:08 PM PDT by rdb3 (Knowledge without God only produces intellectual barbarians.)
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To: sasportas

“Mainstream Judaism is what is represented by the Karaites”

Um, no. As already posted, Karaites were a sect that created itself in Iraq about 1300 years ago. It was never “mainstream” Judaism.

They prospered until the muslims and Christians killed them.

Now most reside in Israel, where they are embraced by their fellow Jewish citizens.

The fact you’ve twisted off into masonic conspiracies with the rest of your post confirms you are a nut.


147 posted on 05/18/2011 1:31:11 PM PDT by Jewbacca (The residents of Iroquois territory may not determine whether Jews may live in Jerusalem.)
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To: GOPJ
Remember sasportas, we're on the same team with the Jews.

It depends, if we are talking about Islam, then I would agree with you. If we are talking about the Old Testament, I would agree with you. If we are talking Jesus Christ, absolutely not. If we are talking extrabiblical literature like the Talmud and Kabbalah, absolutely not.

148 posted on 05/18/2011 1:37:12 PM PDT by sasportas
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To: Iscool
Why is it you guys can't ever tell it the way you hear it...You always have to add something or leave something out to change the story...And then pretend your story is the real one...Hagee did not say Jesus in NOT the Messiah...Hagee said Jesus did not come (the first time) as the Messiah...

Did you listen to the video? Hagee says "Jesus did not come as the Messiah"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7m6pPnQjn7w

Even if Hagee said "Jesus did not come the first time as the Messiah," that would still be horribly false. Hagee is spouting heresy to ingratiate himself with the Jews.

149 posted on 05/18/2011 1:40:15 PM PDT by mas cerveza por favor
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To: Jewbacca

On the Karaites, mainstream from my perspective...not yours Any Jewish group that is OT only (Torah & Tanach to you guys) are the good guys in my book.

Apparently it bothers you for me to bring up the basis of Freemasonry being Kabbalah, Solomon’s temple, etc. Sorry ‘bout that. And I didn’t even mention Kabbalah is also the basis of almost every form of witchcraft and occultic group in the world. Are you running cover for your Kabbalist brethren?


150 posted on 05/18/2011 1:46:56 PM PDT by sasportas
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