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Zogby Poll: Cain Takes Lead over Romney
NewsMax ^ | 5/23/11

Posted on 05/23/2011 9:43:59 PM PDT by Kartographer

Herman Cain leads presumed frontrunner Mitt Romney as the top choice of Republican primary voters in the race for the 2012 Presidential nomination. Among all voters, no one in a list of 13 possible GOP candidates leads President Barack Obama.

(Excerpt) Read more at newsmax.com ...


TOPICS: Front Page News; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: backstabberromney; benedictromney; betrayerromney; bigdigromney; brutusromney; cain; dncposerromney; flipflopromney; hermancain; saboteurromney
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To: Kartographer

As I said to the guy who made a more intelligent reply, I am disturbed that he hasn’t better prepared himself to run for president. The fact that you want someone no better than Obama is also disturbing. I’d like to elect someone who understands how to get things right this time. I can’t imagine why that’s not important to you.


151 posted on 05/24/2011 8:43:27 AM PDT by WFTR (Liberty isn't for cowards)
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To: ilgipper

He fumbled two questions. That’s simply a fact. Your denial of the fact doesn’t change anything.


152 posted on 05/24/2011 8:46:15 AM PDT by WFTR (Liberty isn't for cowards)
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To: Kartographer

I get it, you think when I said “Tea Party Conservatives are the ones who don’t like the Fed” I meant that the Tea Party “hates him”, meaning Cain.

No, I didn’t say that or mean that.

I’m just saying that that one excellent elite credential that Cain has, being KC Fed Chair, is more appealing to Establishment Republicans and less appealing to Tea Party Republicans. I’m talking about Cain’s elite credential, the Chair of KC Fed, not Cain. Cain has been selling his message to Tea Partiers and they like what he has to say. I’m not arguing otherwise. I’m saying that the elite credential itself, not the man Cain, is appealing to establishment Republicans, and less appealing to tea partiers. I’m not sure how well known the fact of Cain was KC Fed Chair is to tea partiers.


153 posted on 05/24/2011 8:50:38 AM PDT by truthfreedom
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To: eeevil conservative
He's had ten years or more to prepare. If he hasn't spent those ten years preparing, why not? If he'd been elected to the US Senate in 2004, he'd have had to deal with foreign policy to some extent. Did he even look at foreign policy before running for Senate? What does that say about someone when he doesn't prepare for such a big part of such an important job?

I don't doubt that he's a good man, but I'm very concerned about his not trying to get up to speed on foreign policy before launching a candidacy for the presidency.

154 posted on 05/24/2011 8:53:35 AM PDT by WFTR (Liberty isn't for cowards)
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To: eeevil conservative

Thanks for the heads up!


155 posted on 05/24/2011 8:57:01 AM PDT by justsaynomore ("I sure wouldn't have taken 16 hours to make that call - and jeopardize that mission" - Herman Cain)
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To: Kartographer

. “Quite honestly Mr. President, your calculations are incorrect,” I said. “In the competitive marketplace, it simply doesn’t work that way.”

He’s got my vote...and whatever else I can send him. His bell rings true.


156 posted on 05/24/2011 9:04:06 AM PDT by mo ("If you understand, no explanation is needed; if you do not, no explanation is possible")
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To: WFTR

He is a GREAT man...

you claim he has had 10 years to prepare- LOL! you should rally fact check these talking points ya’ll get before you repeat them....I have known him for over 7 years- He has not “prepared” for this campaign for 10 years....

Cain has integrity and is a principle man....I have full faith in his ability to deal with foreign policy- I have full faith he will always come down on the right side.

you are fully entitled to your pauses, and I am glad you bring them up....every candidate should be fully vetted...but be careful on repeating things you don’t know to be fact....

the tactic of using the “elite” term on Cain will not work....throwing him in the same club as Romney will not be effective either...although, I see you and your friends have adopted some of Romney’s tactics! Irony is a thing of beauty, the humor is well received!!!


157 posted on 05/24/2011 9:04:07 AM PDT by eeevil conservative (GIVE ME A PLACE TO STAND AND I WILL MOVE THE EARTH....Archimedes)
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To: justsaynomore

HE HIT IT OUT OF TE PARK!!!

WOW!!!

AMAZING!


158 posted on 05/24/2011 9:06:22 AM PDT by eeevil conservative (GIVE ME A PLACE TO STAND AND I WILL MOVE THE EARTH....Archimedes)
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To: WFTR
He actually talked about foreign policy a lot on his daily radio show, so obviously he didn't just pull out a globe this morning and say what is this.

He is and will be on the right side of things internationally.

Most importantly, he has an excellent Reagan-esque economic vision which is priority 1 for this country in 2012.
159 posted on 05/24/2011 9:07:24 AM PDT by over3Owithabrain
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To: truthfreedom
Well let's see its part of his official bio, he speaks of it when he talks about his past it isn't like he is hiding it now is it?

Face it the one and only reason you are on the Cain thread is in an attempt to support Paul by subversion. Be a PROUD spam monkey and proclaim your love of all things Paul! Tell us how you stand with Paul in denouncing OBL's bullet to the head!

160 posted on 05/24/2011 9:16:03 AM PDT by Kartographer (".. we mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes, and our sacred honor.")
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To: eeevil conservative

My answer is cuts across the board.

What a lot people don’t understand, even some Ron Paul supporters, is that Ron Paul really isn’t a Libertarian.

He’s an old-timey, traditional Conservative who believes that the Federal Government has gotten way too big, and has grown way beyond the limits that the Constitution has set for it.

Regulating Drugs is just one of many many things that the Federal Government is doing that they shouldn’t be. Worrying about school test scores. That’s what local school boards are supposed to do. And on and on and on. Many many things Ron Paul would get rid of. Some of those things you like, but most of those things you don’t like.

Every President has grown the Government. Ron Paul wants to make it much much smaller, limited to what the Constitution allows. That’s the main pole, the support for the very sturdy, bolted to the floor, diner stool of Conservatism.

9 out of 10 major cuts and abolition of agencies true hardcore conservatives would support. Ron Paul is going the whole way and saying cut absolutely everything.

More on ending the War on Drugs. If the Federal War on Drugs ended, it doesn’t mean that all Drugs would immediately be legal. State Laws are still in place, or they would be put there. Ending the Federal War on Drugs just means that if states want to start making some drugs legal (and I’d imagine marijuana would be made legal in some states) they can. I do not believe that heroin would be legal anywhere.

About Foreign Policy, well, I would say that I personally don’t agree with his 2008 position that we should close all the military bases. He probably does have the same position, but I don’t know for sure.

I think the idea is just for the federal government to scale back it’s foreign policy objectives. Focus on keeping the US safe, and less on making sure every other country does what we want it to do. We really should be getting away from the idea that the US wants some other country to do one thing or another. Maybe we can move toward a “I don’t care what happens” policy. But, I really don’t care all that much about Foreign Policy, actually, except I think Ron Paul shouldn’t talk about it that much.

Also, wanting to close the bases doesn’t bother me, because I’m fully aware that if Ron Paul became President, he couldn’t just close all the military bases. And I’m fully aware that if Ron Paul became President, there is no way that he’d be able to accomplish everything he wants to do. But what won’t happen, is growth of the Government. Everybody will be expecting cuts. And everyone will be howling about the size of those cuts. And everyone will be trying to save this thing or that thing. But it will be all about cuts.

I would recommend thinking not about what would happen if Ron Paul became President and if every Congressman became a carbon copy of Ron Paul. Because not every Congressman will become a carbon copy of Ron Paul.

He’ll have a Senate and a House with a lot a Democrats and a sizeable number of RINOs. Will massive massive cuts pass?

Think just of the direction. Going from what new spending to what new cuts. And that’s the direction I want.

The biggest problem we have right now is the Federal Government does too much. Ron Paul is the one I trust the most to make the necessary cuts, to focus only on reducing the size and scope of the Federal Government.


161 posted on 05/24/2011 9:33:35 AM PDT by truthfreedom
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To: truthfreedom

thanks for your thoughtful and full response...

I think I would like most of Ron Paul would do....I know I would enjoy seeing the rest of DC implode on a daily basis when he sent everything back....

thanks again....


162 posted on 05/24/2011 9:45:51 AM PDT by eeevil conservative (GIVE ME A PLACE TO STAND AND I WILL MOVE THE EARTH....Archimedes)
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To: Kartographer

see post 161 about Paul.

No, seriously, I think Cain could have a better shot running as an Establishment Republican (but a Conservative one) than a Tea Party Conservative. He has Palin (potentially), Paul, and Bachmann to get that vote. If he picks the establishment side, he has Romney, Gingrich and a whole bunch of people who aren’t going to win to contend with. It’s the easier side of the bracket.

It’s somewhat serious analysis. Certainly, it’s an outcome I want, because for me, Cain would be an upgrade over Romney, Gingrich and everyone else.


163 posted on 05/24/2011 9:50:17 AM PDT by truthfreedom
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To: truthfreedom; eeevil conservative

I tired of wasting good photons on you.

You have a good day.


164 posted on 05/24/2011 9:53:41 AM PDT by Kartographer (".. we mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes, and our sacred honor.")
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To: eeevil conservative

The budget negotiations would be interesting. The “threat to shut down the government” situation would be different with Ron Paul as President. Ron Paul I don’t think would hesitate to shut down the government. If you don’t give me a skillion dollars in cuts, I’m not signing the budget. And that’s that.


165 posted on 05/24/2011 9:54:51 AM PDT by truthfreedom
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To: mylife

Mr Cain is an American, and a Southerner to boot!


166 posted on 05/24/2011 10:41:17 AM PDT by ncpatriot
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To: truthfreedom
I think people who could like Romney could also like Cain. A very successful businessman, for certain, with the Fed job, elite approved.

Again, I don't know enough about Cain yet. But what little I do know, I like - Navy man, experienced business executive. If he advocates a program of budgetary reform which acknowledges that the US taxpayer is at the breaking point and includes permanent structural changes in the big entitlement programs - Social Security and Medicare, I'll like him a lot more.

I do know enough about Romney to know he's not the man to fix the financial problems facing the US today - people like him are precisely why those problems exist.
167 posted on 05/24/2011 11:52:37 AM PDT by AnotherUnixGeek
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To: sneakers

bump to view later


168 posted on 05/24/2011 1:06:31 PM PDT by sneakers ("Obama is like the dog that chased a car and caught it. Now he doesn't know what to do with it.")
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To: truthfreedom
These 5 can win the nomination - Palin, Romney, Gingrich, Paul, Bachmann

I want some of what you're smoking. It must be good stuff.

169 posted on 05/24/2011 1:11:07 PM PDT by Fresh Wind ('People have got to know whether or not their President is a crook.' Richard M. Nixon)
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To: eeevil conservative
He left the restaurant business in the late 90’s. He's running for president now. He's fumbled two foreign policy questions in just a few weeks. I don't know what he's done over the past ten years, but I know that he hasn't prepared to be president. This guy isn't ready, and the rationalizations of his supporters only make him appear less ready.
170 posted on 05/24/2011 2:34:48 PM PDT by WFTR (Liberty isn't for cowards)
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To: over3Owithabrain
He actually talked about foreign policy a lot on his daily radio show, so obviously he didn't just pull out a globe this morning and say what is this.

I never heard his show, but I always assumed that he talked about both foreign policy and domestic issues. Every talk radio show on politics seems to cover both areas. That's why I was so shocked to see him fumble these questions. Your assurance that he'll be on the right side of things internationally is nice, but I'd like some evidence that he already understands the issues and understands strategies for doing what must be done.

I'm glad that you think he has a good economic vision, but he's never tried to implement any kind of economic vision from an elected office. Executive experience in business is good and relevant, but that experience isn't quite the same as dealing with a legislature.

He seems to be a great guy. I'm still looking for him to say or do things that give me any confidence that he can be a good president. Much of what he's saying is causing me to have less confidence in hm.

171 posted on 05/24/2011 2:41:57 PM PDT by WFTR (Liberty isn't for cowards)
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To: WFTR

It is not a fact. I watched it myself. We are getting to the point where FR isn’t even to tolerable with you and countless other shilling for their candidates and trashing others.

A flub is Newt Gingrich last week completely sinking his campaign in one interview with politically tone deaf statements. a flub is Daniels sinking his potential candidacy time and time again with the truce bullcrap. In the course of interviews no candidate knows everything about everything. Chiris Wallace asked Cain about a specific term that probably 70% of Americans have never even heard, and answered it on the stop based on his best interpretation of the term. I had not heard that term used in years until last week. He should have been ready, yes, but it was a minor blip, at worst.


172 posted on 05/24/2011 8:30:34 PM PDT by ilgipper
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To: Kartographer
>
173 posted on 05/24/2011 11:55:19 PM PDT by Dubya-M-DeesWent2SyriaStupid! (Allen West 2012 Make it happen!)
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To: MrB

Who cares? Cain won’t wallow away and write a book.
He will make history and be the first black President.


174 posted on 05/25/2011 12:06:11 AM PDT by Dubya-M-DeesWent2SyriaStupid! (Allen West 2012 Make it happen!)
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To: Kartographer

Herman Cain is a fresh voice for many.

Meanwhile, Romney’s support is a hangover from 2 years ago. What’s he really done in the public eye to get excited about lately? Besides bring us Scott Brown...


175 posted on 05/25/2011 12:25:54 AM PDT by harmonium
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To: mylife

Bitter Beer Barry?

http://www.columbian.com/news/2011/may/23/Obama-Ireland-visit-bonds-of-affection/


176 posted on 05/25/2011 3:39:34 AM PDT by widdle_wabbit
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To: truthfreedom

HA HA LOL

“How am I trashing Cain?” #88

#89 “Herman Cain can’t possibly win in 2012 because
he’s not famous enough”.

FreedomFromTruth


177 posted on 05/25/2011 3:50:30 AM PDT by widdle_wabbit
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To: mylife
"Cain is unelectable, He fouled up the Pally question with Wallace. All I did was start an international incident and get my *** reamed on national television. Now I am drinking beer and tellin lies down at the pub. Did I address that Irish financial crisis?"

Anyone know what year it is?

178 posted on 05/25/2011 5:02:37 AM PDT by cake_crumb (Obama killed Osama and all we got were 72 versions.)
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To: truthfreedom

Wow, were you afraid we wouldn’t get your point? Do you think you repeated yourself enough?

Cain’s a completely self-made man and his specialty is solving financial crises in businesses. I know that doesn’t roll off the tongue like “elite establishment”, oh sorry, that’s “Elite Establishment”, but MY assertion happens to be demonstrably TRUE.


179 posted on 05/25/2011 5:10:20 AM PDT by cake_crumb (Obama killed Osama and all we got were 72 versions.)
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To: excopconservative

Yes he will. They’ll Clarence Thomas him.


180 posted on 05/25/2011 5:11:34 AM PDT by cake_crumb (Obama killed Osama and all we got were 72 versions.)
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To: Waryone; All
I have no idea why you’ve decided to attack him with this specious argument, but I do suspect some ulterior motive

Maybe this'll throw some light: White House Adds New Position to Deal with Unfavorable Online Media - and we all know which party the left's useful idiots belong to.

181 posted on 05/25/2011 5:17:54 AM PDT by cake_crumb (Obama killed Osama and all we got were 72 versions.)
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To: truthfreedom

What did you say about Cain that IS accurate? Why do all libertarians insist on joinging with the dems in using fallacious argument to make untruth seem like truth?


182 posted on 05/25/2011 5:21:23 AM PDT by cake_crumb (Obama killed Osama and all we got were 72 versions.)
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To: Kartographer; Impy; TigersEye; AmericanInTokyo; rabscuttle385

Yes ....!


183 posted on 05/25/2011 5:31:12 AM PDT by Arthur Wildfire! March (George Washington: [Government] is a dangerous servant and a terrible master.)
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To: celtic gal

I like Malkin too. I also liked Alan Keyes — was very loyal to him in 2000, but he simply lacked the leadership skills, and I refused to admit it to myself at the time. Cain is an outsider, just like Malkin and Keyes. So I’m thrilled. But I’m not counting out Palin either.


184 posted on 05/25/2011 5:38:12 AM PDT by Arthur Wildfire! March (George Washington: [Government] is a dangerous servant and a terrible master.)
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To: Kartographer; Impy

Funny thing is that Boortz had a “guy crush” on Newt when the real power house was right under his nose. Talk about bad instincts!

I had predicted wa ... ay back that Newt would flop and that Cain had potential. [Buffing my VRWC decoder ring.]


185 posted on 05/25/2011 5:40:48 AM PDT by Arthur Wildfire! March (George Washington: [Government] is a dangerous servant and a terrible master.)
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To: Kartographer; Impy

Romney is kind of like today’s Forbes in some ways. Remember how Forbes spent tons of money and ended up nowhere? I remember [when I was shnookered into having satellite] how Forbes dropped a ton of balloons just before his speech in Iowa [2000 race]. The people kept popping balloons while he tried to talk. It broke his momentum, making him blink the entire time. I laughed myself silly.


186 posted on 05/25/2011 6:11:47 AM PDT by Arthur Wildfire! March (George Washington: [Government] is a dangerous servant and a terrible master.)
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To: truthfreedom

“These 5 can win the nomination - Palin, Romney, Gingrich, Paul, Bachmann. [Or The others can’t...Republicans don’t vote for fresh faces.”

Ron Paul? Nowhere. Romney or Gingrich would need ticket splitters to squeak through. I admire Bachman, but she needs something to happen — a mistake by Cain. She needs to hope that Palin doesn’t enter. Her name is not as well known as you might think. Giuliani was soundly rejected in the past, largely because he doesn’t respect Life. He would have to squeak through with a ticket splitter even more desperately than Gingrich or Romney.

If Palin doesn’t run, the only reason Cain would lose is because of Herman Cain. This is his to lose unless she enters. It was the same as Howard Dean — his primary race was his to lose, and Dean blew it. But Cain strikes me as very self-disciplined. His main stumbling block would be the tax lobby network — like H&R Block, brilliant people who are too comfortable with exploiting the complex tax code. They will try to harm him in a big way.

The reason Cain is rising so rapidly is this:

The conservative movement is much more dynamic now as the information age grows in maturity. A primary cannot be predicted with a static mindset. For example, while some conservatives still stick to dead tree papers, they read columns from people who research online. Radio hosts are building up reputations and forging more influence. FoxNews is doing the same. The radio hosts and FoxNews — all study online intently. This makes primaries much less traditional than in the past.

A strong movement has been forged to block the Ruling Class. This movement is even larger than the Tea Party; it’s not even a formal thing, and it’s bipartizan. I don’t even know if anti-conservative crossover primary mischief is going to happen this year.


187 posted on 05/25/2011 6:26:04 AM PDT by Arthur Wildfire! March (George Washington: [Government] is a dangerous servant and a terrible master.)
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To: Arthur Wildfire! March

just like ?malkin? and Keyes ? No BACHMAN and Keyes.


188 posted on 05/25/2011 6:30:57 AM PDT by Arthur Wildfire! March (George Washington: [Government] is a dangerous servant and a terrible master.)
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To: cake_crumb

“Yes he will. They’ll Clarence Thomas him.”

Good point; they will try. I hope he took that into account and is sure that he’s safe on that front.


189 posted on 05/25/2011 6:35:26 AM PDT by Arthur Wildfire! March (George Washington: [Government] is a dangerous servant and a terrible master.)
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To: RINOs suck

“Right now, only Sarah Palin deciding to run could derail Cain as the conservative frontrunner.”

I agree. If Palin runs, Cain will have a fight on his hands. Otherwise, this is his to lose. [If he has a scandal or makes a major verbal slip, for example.] In this day and age, people can rise from obscurity if ...

1. They have a strong base that is willing to work hard.

2. They know how to lead and expand that core base.

3. They are mentally prepared and make the right moves well in advance.


190 posted on 05/25/2011 6:43:35 AM PDT by Arthur Wildfire! March (George Washington: [Government] is a dangerous servant and a terrible master.)
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To: mo

Foreign policy experience is important, but the know how to bring this country out of its financial doldrums I feel is even more important.

It’s a lot easier to “negotiate” on the foreign stage as a rich country, than as a poor one.

Wealthy nations can mount a strong defense, and keep their citizens healthy and strong, with the ability to feed them and provide healthcare for them at home. Poor nations don’t really stand a chance now, do they.


191 posted on 05/25/2011 7:19:47 AM PDT by LibsRJerks
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To: eeevil conservative
"but there is no doubt that I would rather have a man of principle and integrity in office making decisions than politicos that will govern based on their own self interests- no matter how much more “knowledge” they have on foreign affairs...."

ding ding ding! We have a winner :)

192 posted on 05/25/2011 7:26:38 AM PDT by sweet_diane (Adoption, the beautiful choice!)
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To: Kartographer

The sooner Americans fully understand that politics is about enriching the media and making average people think they have some measure of control, the better off we will be. Then we can get rightfully POd and do something about it.

The Tea Party concept was built upon the frustration that we typically feel when the powers that be who run the system listen not to us, but instead push us into something we don’t want such as amnesty for illegals, or the millions more H1B visas instead of educating Americans, or billions spent in foreign aid while they figure how to cut enforcement of Medicare fraud against their cronies, or wars in Libya, or the perpetual war on terror, or the UAE managing our ports, or average Americans paying more taxes than GE.

Make no mistake the Party elite will be determining the candidates not average Americans. You will get to choose but only what they decide.


193 posted on 05/25/2011 7:43:15 AM PDT by apoliticalone (Honest govt. that operates in the interest of US sovereignty and the people, not global $$$)
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To: Dengar01
When people are going to be paying 7 - 8 dollars a gallon I think Barry is beatable.

I remember the same was said for $4-per-gallon gas a few months ago. The sheeple are more easily conditioned to accept the formerly unacceptable, so long as those in power have an effective propaganda arm to guide their thinking.

194 posted on 05/25/2011 8:47:15 AM PDT by ScottinVA (Imagine.... a world without islam.)
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To: truthfreedom

Including Paul in ‘can win’ and excluding Cain is denial at best and complete lunacy at worst.


195 posted on 05/25/2011 10:14:19 AM PDT by Servant of the Cross (the Truth will set you free!)
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To: eeevil conservative
End the Fed? Ron Paul Is Wrong for All the Right Reasons

“Unless all nations agree to do so simultaneously, the dissolving of a central bank amounts to the economic equivalent of unilateral disarmament.”

"End the Fed" is an ignorant slogan, not a solution.

196 posted on 05/25/2011 10:19:33 AM PDT by Servant of the Cross (the Truth will set you free!)
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To: cake_crumb
They’ll Clarence Thomas him.

Yes, they will. Yes, Herman is ready. And besides ....

CLARENCE THOMAS WON! (check out biden's shame)

197 posted on 05/25/2011 10:25:34 AM PDT by Servant of the Cross (the Truth will set you free!)
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To: Servant of the Cross

The last Gallup poll I checked, Ron Paul was known by 76% of Republicans, and Cain was known by 29% of Republicans.

The difference between 76% and 29% is the difference between can win and can’t win.

Cain is certainly a fresh face, and the Democrats do elect fresh faces. But the Republicans never elect fresh faces.


198 posted on 05/25/2011 12:46:03 PM PDT by truthfreedom
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To: Arthur Wildfire! March

My argument is only that Cain isn’t well known enough to win.

And that Republicans only pick well known candidates.

If you want to mention all the unknown Republicans that get the Republican Nomination in the last 50 years, go ahead.

I’m saying Cain isn’t famous enough, that’s all.

The 5 I mentioned all have high name recognition. Bachmann has the lowest of the 5. Cain has name recognition half of Bachmann. He falls short, just not famous enough for 2012.


199 posted on 05/25/2011 12:57:57 PM PDT by truthfreedom
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To: cake_crumb

All you have to do to make your case is find a quote of mine, and tell me where I’m wrong.

Herman Cain has excellent elite credentials. It’s a fact.

He was Chair of the KC Fed. Another fact.

I don’t know what libertarians do.

I’m a Limited Constitutional Government Conservative who wants a much smaller Federal Government.


200 posted on 05/25/2011 1:03:53 PM PDT by truthfreedom
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