Skip to comments.All four homes in raid tied to Guerena family
Posted on 05/28/2011 1:49:58 AM PDT by petitfour
Records released by the Pima County Sheriff's Department this week show that the four houses served with search warrants the morning of May 5 - when Jose Guerena was shot and killed by a SWAT team - are less than four miles apart and are all connected to the Guerena family.
And while initial reports were that doctors told the Guerena family that Jose had been shot 60 times, the Pima County medical examiner's preliminary report says he was shot 22 times. In its sole briefing on the incident, the Sheriff's Department said SWAT team members fired 71 rounds.
Aside from releasing more than 500 pages of documents about the incident, the department has remained mum since the May 10 briefing.
The raid netted drugs, large amounts of cash, bulletproof vests, about 30 cellphones and a stolen vehicle, records show, but no arrests have been made.
(Excerpt) Read more at azstarnet.com ...
I don’t see how. The story said “No drugs or large amounts of cash were found inside Jose Guerena’s home”. Looks like a “good shoot” to you, does it? It is generally not illegal to own a .38 Colt or a bullet proof vest. The way I read this, some folks this guy knew may have been involved in drug dealing. Does that make it OK to kill him?I hope you are not affiliated with the cops in my locale. This is why I hate the war on drugs. It is not that I am fond of drugs or the people who use them. Quite the contrary. I hate the WOD because it makes otherwise rational people think it is OK to kick in doors and kill people for basically nothing without even exploring sane alternatives. Don’t you think the police could have just arrested they guy when he showed up for his next 12 hour shift and avoided all this? I think these cops are murderers, no better than any other gang of home invading thugs.
The lesson as far as I can tell from this is never lock your door and have a “Welcome To Enter” sign on it, whatever time of day or night it is...
60/71 sounded high.
Another thing the ROE of engaement in Iraq or Afghanistan appear to be much stricker than for our own Police Force in the United States.
Best report on the whole matter I’ve seen.
On all these threads on this subject, some people ask, why are so many Free Republicans up in arms, so to speak, about this? Do they want legalized drugs? Do they hate cops?
The answer is simple.
We love, cherish, and honor our FREEDOM from government that is the very essence of being an American.
Our worry is that it is a very short fall on the slippery slope for these types of tactics to be used against us for political reasons.
Don’t think so?
Perhaps. But it really does concern us.
That is why so many worry about it.
The cure (war against drugs) is far worse than the disease (drug abuse).
Sounds like a huge success. At least they can use the money for MORE weapons and MORE assets to continue their war on drugs.
It’s kind of scary watching the video released by the Sheriff’s Office. Once the shooting begins a couple of the officers draw their handguns, point into the doorway and empty without any pretense of aiming. If that house had been full of people there is no way of telling how many others would have been hit. Complete amateurs in my opinion.
Non sequitur? Do you even know what that means? My reference was in regard to yours on canines.
Yep, I know what you were referencing. Apparently the point I was making sailed over your head.
1) The confiscated $92,000 from a home. So far no evidence that it is related to illegal activity.
2) The police report confiscated a small amount of marijuana in the stove of one home. Possible misdemeanor citation.
3) No other illegal items have been found.
So you are saying if they find a bag of marijuana in my brothers house a mile away the Men in Black are justified to shoot me 22 times, despite the fact there is no evidence of my involvement?
Exactly, the video of the SWAT raid shows a distinct level of unprofessionalism.
1) Music playing in the raid vehicle. This interferes with commands and operators hearing radio traffic.
2) The stack was not set up properly.
3) The shield man tripped and fell.
4) A flash bang was used which confused members into thinking they were being shot at when there was no gun fire by the home owner.
5) No care or consideration was given to shots as there was child home.
6) Police gun fire went through the home and entered neighbors homes putting them at risk.
7) SWAT commander states he was scared by the gun fire by the home owner that did not exist.
8) SWAT commander states he could not see into the home yet he was sure the homeowner was pointing a gun.
9) Official police story has changed several times.
Are you aware that NO arrests have been made ... even in connection with the raid on the dead man's brother's home?
What happened here is that the SWAT with 10 seconds warning, breached the front door of a home whose residents' sole 'problem' was a family relationship to someone else at another address suspected of criminal activity. The SWAT member carrying the shield tripped and fell. Those crowding behind him panicked, apparently thought he had been shot and laid down "suppressive" fire down the hallways as they dragged him to safety.
Of course the cop haters will have a field day with this case. That's because this is a classic, and getting to be all too common, case of the abuse of police powers. Please research Sheriff Dupnik of Pima County, follow this for a few more days, and then repost. Be interested in your considered opinion.
It seems what we have here is the potential for an honest-to-God Greek tragedy.
Hard working ex-Marine is gunned down in his home by trigger-happy SWAT team.
There is, of course, the problem that members of Guerena and Celeya families have been arrested on numerous occasions and are involved in drug trafficking. Their homes have been used for both drops and storage, and murders may have taken place within them. Because I despise Sheriff Dupnik, I am willing to pin the blame for shoddy work on his SWAT team. There is, however, one very troubling aspect to all of this. In Jose’s garage was found a Border Patrol hat. That one sticks in my craw.
His department needs a top-to-bottom clean-out. Dirty and inept.
I saw on ABC this morning that Garcia was suspected of being involved in home invasions of drug dealers, and had body armor marked “U.S. Border Patrol.” Comment?
I am not a Marine, but I take insult at that remark. Every branch of the military has it fair share of losers after they were discharged.
Don’t forget John F’n Kerry - he served in Vietnam.
I agree. This SWAT team crapola is really getting out of hand. The SWAT is supposed to be used for crazies involved in gun standoff’s or bank robberies etc. Not to serve warrants on people. Its ridiculous and just another ploy to put the police state in place on all of us. Remember Elian Gonzales?
Oh, this explains why they had to murder the Iraq vet. Family members were involved in drugs! All family members of criminals should be executed by the cops./s/
Given his family members were into the drug trade explains why he freaked out with the house invasion. He, however, worked as a miner and could have been picked up at his job site at any time.
Glad to see he was only hit by 27 of the 70 bullets shot at him. That takes care of the claim it was overkill./s/
The dead home owner had a Border Patrol cap in a plastic storage bin in his garage. The dead man also had body armor stored in a closet from his several tours in Iraq and Afghanistan as do many veterans. He was killed in a pair of boxer shorts.
Jose had a clean record.
No evidence was found connected to any criminal activity.
He had some bad family elements.
Appears like this is one member of the family who tried to elevate himself from the crap he grew up in and was murdered for it.
Dynamic entries were severely restricted in Iraq prior to the (America) cessation of hostilities.
We used to do what was called 'tactical call outs', which entailed arriving at the objective area, setting up a cordon around the target house, then getting the terps to announce the equivalent to the old 'Come out with your hands up, we have the joint surrounded.' This generally ended in them coming out with their hands up, but occasionally with them calling back 'you'll never take me alive, copper'. Which we didn't, at that point. But that was rare, because it was pretty much an intentionally suicidal decision on their part.
It wasn't as safe or exciting as sneaking in and kicking doors, but it was considered tolerable by the local communities.
Afghanistan operates under a set of rules known as Karzai's 12, which is a checklist that restricts the ROE on top of the ROE restrictions. Conventional forces would need theater level approval to do the kind of raid that the Tuscon SWAT did.
In either country, you still have JSOC operating under much less restrictive rules, but the are very choosy about their targets. They only go after sexy, high profile individuals believed to be high in the threat food chain. This gives them a very high degree of confidence that they're kicking in a bad guy's door, since their targets generally have very long rap sheets and are known elements.
So he's guilty because some family members weren't?
Why on earth was he working 3 12 hr shifts straight in the mines - if he was involved and all that money was floating around - where'd he find the time to run a drug/invasion operation - Now that this Sheriff Dipstick has has two weeks to concoct and cover up - we're going to believe HIM and the wimps who fired 71 shots at a man who never even took the safety off his his gun - if indeed it WAS his gun...reports say his wife said all he owned was a handgun - and she saw the cops threw "a big gun" down next to him - after he finally died - Anyone asking WHY they refused to let the paramedics in to treat him - waiting 1 hour and 14 minutes - and then telling the paramedics they wouldn't be needed...More like they knew they'd screwed up big time and were getting their cover story made up and sure everyone would be on the same page.
Even so, they've already had to retract several allegations.
Yep - you go right ahead and turn on this Marine vet...
You DO remember who Sheriff DipStick is, don't you? The one that came out screaming that it was some disgruntled Tea Party Conservative who went on the rampage that killed the judge, the little girl and others and shot Gabby G. in the head. Yeah, he's a straight up guy.
You are confusing abuse of the commerce clause with abuse of drugs.
Red flag number two: the fact that Pima Count Sheriff Dupnik presented himself to the press with a blatant agenda for THREE months January - March during the entire Giffords shooting debacle. It wasn't just one ridiculous statement the man made, it was dozens. He has proven himself in full public light to be a statist, a "gubmint mouthpiece," delusional, and an asshole on top of that. HE PROVED ON LIVE TELEVISION THAT HE WAS A LIAR WITH A PENCHANT FOR NOT JUST TWISTING FACTS, BUT FOR OUTRIGHT FANTASTICAL DELUSION.
And the SWAT team members are wondering why the public is questioning their actions? And the actions of their Sheriff leading them? Come on.
It's a distinct possibility - not because they suspect you - but just because these raids are going to become more common - on ANYONE for NO REASON...and if they find things like you have - BINGO - they are even taught to look for bomb makers with one criteria being if they are cleverly putting can of gasoline next to the lawn mower to make it look innocent.
Everybody better keep their nose to ground as to what's happening in this country. The Indiana SUPREME COURT just abrogated our rights to be secure from search in citizens homes that dates back not only to our Constitution, but to the Magna Carta! Read THIS for a chill:
“Indiana High Court Rules People Cannot Resist Illegal Entry by Police Into Homes
“cannot resist ILLEGAL entry”!!! how can they even put that on paper - But THEN -
“Indiana Sheriff: House to House Random Searches Now Possible”
“Sheriff Hartman showed such an indifference toward the rights of the people that he was asked three times to explain his views. The sheriff made it clear that he would use random house to house searches if he believed it was necessary.
The opinions of Newton county Sheriff Hartman has created a movement to remove him from office.”
We are well on the way to becoming a Police State-country
That is very well put. The fish rots from the head down.
Oh please. Border patrol hats are sold everywhere. Based on the presumptions many freepers are making my house would seem more of a control center than bin ladens compound.
I say jail all these bums for life.
That's what I was thinking too. Two in what. 50-60 years?
Boy, Put the country on alert.
Notice DainBramage is getting more het up with each post - methinks he doth protest too much?
Please tell me you are being sarcastic. You can buy Border Patrol hats anywhere, especially here in Arizona. http://www.amazon.com/BORDER-PATROL-HAT-ENFORCEMENT-HATS/dp/B00303ACRK
Ironically, this would take out about half the military. A lot of very good people I worked with joined to get away from negative elements in their families for a while. Or they had that one uncle or brother that just couldn't keep himself out of trouble. More than one energetic and otherwise great Soldier I've worked with has mentioned that he'd likely be in prison now if he hadn't gotten away from his family and joined the Army.
That's a hard thing to grow up with, when human nature pushes you to be close to your family, and human decency pulls you away.
Anyway, I don't know if this guy was guilty or innocent, but having shady family members or being on the fringe of criminal activity but not involved it is not terribly uncommon in the military.
Too much bramage I reckon. Must have been hopped on his dread as a baby.
I bet you have a needle in your arm and a straw up your nose right now you godless heathen tweeker! (Sarcasm on deep fat fry)_
Yes, I do realize that and have been pointing it out in numerous posts. I think it’s still fair to point out how lame the evidence is that was collected from the other houses.
D’oh.. he was only shot 22 times?
Like this post to you?
"Grow up. Ive seen it first hand myself as have many others. Your defense with your drug isnt healthy."
Here is a marijuana effects thread where you 'defend' marijuana multiple times. http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2669677/posts
Here you are proclaiming the medical wonders of marijuana.
You’re right, those hats are pretty much in every truck stop here.
And, there is always the joke going around about having one for the ER — to clear out the illegals. I’ve thought about getting one just because of that joke!
But my husband wears his Minuteman sweatshirt to different places — I’m sure we’re massively suspected drug cartellers in the new police state.
Here you are stating that the marijuana of today is just like the weak weed of yesterday ...
So what? Better to soak up the FDA-approved poisons?
Here you are proclaiming your pot expertise and defending criminal pot growers.
Assuming this is true? Arrest him at work, where he doesn't have his guns and body armor handy? Safer for all parties.
Or just cordon the house. If the guy has body armor and large amounts of weapons, cash and drugs, you can't flush it. In most cases, against most people, this will work just fine.
In extreme circumstances, take extreme measures. Terrorist masterminds, kidnappers, murdering psychos. Sure, kick that door and sling some lead if the opportunity presents itself. Otherwise, leave the Rambo stuff for the military. This guy, at worst, was a low level, part time soldier in a family drug running gang. He had a steady day job, a family and no criminal record.
If I gave you a Police Chief hat and the resources of the Tuscon PD, I'm sure you could come up with a very good plan to bag this guy without putting 70 rounds into a residential neighborhood.
So, you’re admitting you’re too stupid to read posts 79 and 81.
They obviously presume guilt on the police.