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Druggist in OKC is convicted of murder (shot robber)
http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=14&articleid=20110527_222_A15_CUTLIN912500 ^

Posted on 05/28/2011 11:54:51 PM PDT by TigerClaws

OKLAHOMA CITY - An emotional jury decided Thursday that pharmacist Jerome Jay Ersland is guilty of first-degree murder for fatally shooting a masked robber two years ago in an Oklahoma City drugstore.

Jurors recommended life in prison as punishment.

Two co-workers at Reliable Discount Pharmacy told jurors that Ersland was a hero who saved their lives on May 19, 2009.

Read more from this Tulsa World article at http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=14&articleid=20110527_222_A15_CUTLIN912500

(Excerpt) Read more at tulsaworld.com ...


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Extended News; News/Current Events; Unclassified
KEYWORDS: armedcitizen; banglist; ersland; robbery; selfdefense
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To: Jonty30

Manslaughter at best. It’s all BS.


251 posted on 05/29/2011 12:55:26 PM PDT by eyedigress ((Old storm chaser from the west)?)
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To: eyedigress

You still have to abide by the law. The law doesn’t recognize the ability to conduct a blood feud or go hunting an individual down, just because you think it is warranted.


252 posted on 05/29/2011 12:59:20 PM PDT by Jonty30
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To: SatinDoll
But I remember that there are people who when they didn't’t kill the criminal who attacked them, later were sued because the piece of shit survived. I am not going to work into my old age to support some criminal!

In Oklahoma that will not happen, we have a "Make my Day Law", the the kid was killed during the crime, the family can NOT sue. But since he was killed AFTER the crime the family is suing.

If the Pharmacist had been acquitted the family would have been forced to drop their suit, but since He wasn't the can now proceed.

253 posted on 05/29/2011 1:00:39 PM PDT by amigatec (The only change you will see in the next four years will be what's in your pocket.)
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To: eyedigress

Manslaughter is killing without the hate. What the pharmacist did was stronger than manslaughter.


254 posted on 05/29/2011 1:02:42 PM PDT by Jonty30
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To: Jonty30

Not on my jury. You choose to steal, you choose the fate.


255 posted on 05/29/2011 1:06:44 PM PDT by eyedigress ((Old storm chaser from the west)?)
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To: eyedigress

Yes, Mr. Foreman of the jury, loud and clear. :)


256 posted on 05/29/2011 1:10:13 PM PDT by Jonty30
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To: Jonty30

Robbing a pharmacy is the equivalent of robbing a bank. Determinations were made and acted upon. It is a lot more serious than stuffing a snickers in your pocket. I have no qualms whatsoever with the fright that idiot presented to this distributer and the subsequent action that happened to said idiot.


257 posted on 05/29/2011 1:15:00 PM PDT by eyedigress ((Old storm chaser from the west)?)
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To: eyedigress

Regardless, of your emotional state, there are limits as to what you’re allowed to do.


258 posted on 05/29/2011 1:21:19 PM PDT by Jonty30
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To: Jonty30

No there isn’t. Steal...expect the unexpected. You might die. They were wrong to punish this man. I will take care of my property. If you don’t want numerous bullets, I suggest you don’t try to rob me.


259 posted on 05/29/2011 1:25:23 PM PDT by eyedigress ((Old storm chaser from the west)?)
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To: eyedigress

It wasn’t the number of bullets, it was where they were in the sequence of events. Had the pharmacists shot the guy six times, quickly, and killed him, he likely wouldn’t have faced charges. The prosecutor had even said as much.

It was because the perp was, without question, no danger to anybady that the pharmacist was prosecuted.


260 posted on 05/29/2011 1:30:54 PM PDT by Jonty30
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To: Jonty30

So the pharmacist is suddenly a doctor or M.E., I could care less. The guy initiated his demise and chose this pharmacist. He lost. Do not blame the pharmacist. Your argument holds no water and excuses the events that led to this.


261 posted on 05/29/2011 1:37:12 PM PDT by eyedigress ((Old storm chaser from the west)?)
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To: Teacher317
.. what he did after the first shot(s) was very, very wrong. He deserved to be punished for THAT part of it. The initial shot(s) were 100% appropriate

I tend to agree. On the other hand, I've killed venomous serpents just for being around my house. If I see them in the woods, I let them be.

gitmo

262 posted on 05/29/2011 1:38:30 PM PDT by gitmo (Hatred of those who think differently is the left's unifying principle.-Ralph Peters NY Post)
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To: eyedigress

He has had some level of medical training, since he’s pharmacists.

However, I don’t think you need a medical degree to ensure a prone man stays prone.

The law isn’t about whether or not you care about the man. Obedience to the law ensures, as much as humanly possible, that we stay civilized and aren’t allowed to conduct justice as each of us defines justice.


263 posted on 05/29/2011 1:43:55 PM PDT by Jonty30
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To: Jonty30; gitmo

My new AF flag came in yesterday and I need to go put it up. It was fun in the courtroom. Be safe


264 posted on 05/29/2011 1:44:25 PM PDT by eyedigress ((Old storm chaser from the west)?)
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To: Syncro; Jonty30
It's a gross exaggeration that will be c/p by FR enemies and used against us as gospel truth.

That's a good point. If I were O'Reilly, Matthews, Schultz, Maddow etc., I'd use this Jonty30 quote to smear Free Republic:

If somebody breaks into your house and you kill them, you should probably wipe out their family, including the baby, just in case.

265 posted on 05/29/2011 1:53:10 PM PDT by death2tyrants
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To: Jonty30
it was clear in the video the perp was no threat under any circumstances

That's not true. The perp wasn't in view after the inital shot, and there is no way to tell if the perp was able to regain his composure, pull out a gun, and kill the pharmacist.

266 posted on 05/29/2011 1:55:17 PM PDT by death2tyrants
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To: death2tyrants

In context, it was a perfectly appropriate quote. The fact that somebody might take it out of context is not my responsibility.


267 posted on 05/29/2011 1:59:44 PM PDT by Jonty30
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To: Jonty30
In context, it was a perfectly appropriate quote.

It was an absurd strawman on your part. Nobody ever promoted murdering babies or killing whole families.

The fact that somebody might take it out of context is not my responsibility.

Gee, the left would never take anything out of context to make Free Republic look bad./s

268 posted on 05/29/2011 2:08:36 PM PDT by death2tyrants
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To: death2tyrants

The pharmacist’s actions were in full-view.

His actions were not of a man who thought he was in danger.

If he thought he was in danger, he wouldn’t have moved so casually and kept hus back to the perp and he certainly wouldn’t have stood over him to shoot point blank.


269 posted on 05/29/2011 2:09:07 PM PDT by Jonty30
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To: death2tyrants

Let the left do their thing. They are becoming more discredited as the days go by.

If you give a man enough rope, he’ll hang himself and that is what the left is in the process of doing.


270 posted on 05/29/2011 2:11:27 PM PDT by Jonty30
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To: death2tyrants

If removing a threat is the goal, killing some 16 year old punk, who is incapacitated, is not a great way to go about it. You’re going to possibly increase the threat against you by either pissing off his family (who might want revenge) or pissing off the gang he might be in (who would definitely want their pound of flesh).

It doesn’t seem like you’ve really removed the threat when you kill somebody who isn’t a threat to you.


271 posted on 05/29/2011 2:18:24 PM PDT by Jonty30
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To: Jonty30; jimrob; ansel12; eyedigress; Syncro; freeangel
The law isn’t about whether or not you care about the man. Obedience to the law ensures, as much as humanly possible, that we stay civilized and aren’t allowed to conduct justice as each of us defines justice.

I have just a few questions to (hopefully) further the discussion while (just as hopefully) avoiding inflaming emotions on this clearly volatile matter:

1). Does (or should) the background of the individuals involved weigh into the facts that the jury considers? From a distance, the thug was just that -- a human being to be sure, but a lifetime of criminal behavior. The pharmacist, even with the lies of his military record, evidently had a body of work doing good for others and was law-abiding. As a pharmacist, he doubtlessly fulfilled prescriptions that saved or enhanced the lives of others.

2). Have any of the "heavy hitters" weighed on the verdict? Although I do my own thinking, what do people well-versed in Constitutional Conservatism think about convicting the druggist of murder? The opinions of people who have defended liberty such as our own esteemed Jim Robinson as well as Rush Limbaugh and Mark Levin would be of interest in this obviously hot-button issue.

3). Presuming a question were framed about this verdict (and the incident itself) and posed in a debate with the Republican contenders for the presidency, would the answer each gave influence your opinion about that contender?

272 posted on 05/29/2011 2:24:18 PM PDT by re_nortex (DP...that's what I like about Texas.)
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To: Jonty30
I just happen to like no-holds barred discussions, with people being honest, even when there is disagreement.

Hypocrite. And liar.

You are being very dishonest on this thread.

And playing dumb. You have that down.

273 posted on 05/29/2011 2:26:12 PM PDT by Syncro (Sarah Palin, the unofficial Tea Party candidate for president--Virtual Jerusalem)
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To: death2tyrants
He's playing dumb, and continues to post statements that will be taken to prove FR is a hate site.

He has stated he doesn't care.

Very bad for this forum.

He's quite full of himself.

274 posted on 05/29/2011 2:31:14 PM PDT by Syncro (Sarah Palin, the unofficial Tea Party candidate for president--Virtual Jerusalem)
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To: Jonty30; jimrob; ansel12; eyedigress; Syncro; freeangel
Following up on my own post, I've yet to find thoughts penned by Mark Levin or Rush Limbaugh about the Ersland's guilty verdict. I did come across these two items but neither of them have the gravitas (for lack of a better word) than Limbaugh, Levin or our very own Jim Robinson.

Rally for Jerome Jay Ersland posted on the Mark Levin Show Facebook page.

Travesty: Disabled Gulf War Veteran Jerome Ersland Convicted for Saving Lives from Debbie Schlussel whose Conservatism is at best questionable.

275 posted on 05/29/2011 2:37:00 PM PDT by re_nortex (DP...that's what I like about Texas.)
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To: re_nortex

1. In my opinion, the background of the person is irrelevant. He may be on drugs or he may have been stone cold sober, it may be his first crime or thousandth. He didn’t have a father or he came from an intact nuclear family. That is irrelevant to me. If the pharmacist had gotten off six quick shots and killed the thug, I wouldn’t be arguing against the death of the perp. It was the context that matters. The pharmacist had the guy down and out of commision. He only would have had to call the cops, pull up a chair, and keep his gun trained on the thug and waited. If the thug had managed to do anything, other than continue to lie there and the pharmacist had then shot him again and again and killed him, I would not be making the argument that the pharmacist was in the wrong.

2. Nobody has given any links to suggest any prominent opinion-maker has had anything to say, but keep your eye on Townhall, if anybody says anything Mike Adams or Doug Giles would probably be the most likely to say something.

3. Even if I were an American, my opinion of somebody wouldn’t be affected in the least. I’m mostly economic, law and problem solving oriented.


276 posted on 05/29/2011 2:37:00 PM PDT by Jonty30
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To: Syncro

Be specific.

In what way have I shown myself to be a hypocrite and liar?

My position has been consistent on this issue.


277 posted on 05/29/2011 2:39:46 PM PDT by Jonty30
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To: re_nortex

The Pharmacist had a history of lies and mental problems, he had a fake fantasy life as a self absorbed, self described war hero and it looks like the murder set up and the fake description of the robbery was a part of that mental state and dishonesty.


278 posted on 05/29/2011 5:14:13 PM PDT by ansel12 ( JIM DEMINT "I believe [Palins] done more for the Republican Party than anyone since Ronald Reagan")
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To: re_nortex

Wow, Debbie Schlussel is a lying nut case, she is putting out a fake version of events. Evidently Schlussel just posts anything to get an emotional response from her less than sharp readers.


279 posted on 05/29/2011 5:21:47 PM PDT by ansel12 ( JIM DEMINT "I believe [Palins] done more for the Republican Party than anyone since Ronald Reagan")
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To: death2tyrants
That's not true. The perp wasn't in view after the inital shot, and there is no way to tell if the perp was able to regain his composure, pull out a gun, and kill the pharmacist.

Wrong, if you can't tell that from watching the druggist himself, then know that when the robber collapsed unconscious from a brain wound, lay in his own blood and blood splatter on his back with his hands out, never moving, and never moved even when he was being shot five times, the coroner and forensics easily could read what happened to the unconscious body.

280 posted on 05/29/2011 5:28:34 PM PDT by ansel12 ( JIM DEMINT "I believe [Palins] done more for the Republican Party than anyone since Ronald Reagan")
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To: eyedigress

Rational people can see that they were all bad guys, including the murderer.


281 posted on 05/29/2011 5:31:08 PM PDT by ansel12 ( JIM DEMINT "I believe [Palins] done more for the Republican Party than anyone since Ronald Reagan")
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To: Jonty30
The pharmacist’s actions were in full-view.

I never claimed he wasn't. Do you have anything other than strawmen? The perp wasn't in view on the video and the pharmacist had no way of knowing wether the perp was going to regain his composure, pull out a gun, and kill the pharmacist.

282 posted on 05/29/2011 6:11:29 PM PDT by death2tyrants
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To: Jonty30
If removing a threat is the goal, killing some 16 year old punk, who is incapacitated, is not a great way to go about it.

Like I said, there is no way to tell if the perp was able to regain his composure, pull out a gun, and kill the pharmacist.

or pissing off the gang he might be in

Who cares what his friends think.

283 posted on 05/29/2011 6:15:17 PM PDT by death2tyrants
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To: ansel12

There is no way for him to tell if the perp was able to regain his composure, pull out a gun, and kill the pharmacist. You folks defending these thugs would have given Bernie Goetz the chair.


284 posted on 05/29/2011 6:25:52 PM PDT by death2tyrants
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To: death2tyrants

Unless you are saying Okey’s are as dumb as hammers, you can tell by the actions of the pharmacist as to whether or not he thought he was in danger.

He didn’t hurry to get that second gun.
He didn’t keep an eye on the downed thug, as he went to get his second gun.
He casually walked back with the second gun and stood over the perp and shot him at near blank range.

None of these actions would be done by anybody who thought they were in the slightest amount of danger.

Therefore, from the pharmacist’s own actions, he didn’t think he was in danger. Therefore, he wasn’t in danger when he killed the prone thug at point-blank range, therefore it was murder.

In my opinion, to the second degree.


285 posted on 05/29/2011 6:32:11 PM PDT by Jonty30
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To: death2tyrants

By the pharmacist’s own judgement, you can tell if he thought he was in danger.

Yes, if you kill a gang banger, you better be expecting payback, so you better care if they care about somebody in their group, if they go down.

Unless, you have the ability to go to war with an entire gang, you better care a lot.


286 posted on 05/29/2011 6:37:15 PM PDT by Jonty30
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To: Jonty30
Therefore, he wasn’t in danger when he killed the prone thug at point-blank range

Complete non-sequitur. There is no way for him to tell if the perp was able to regain his composure, pull out a gun, and kill the pharmacist. Whether or not he was running around frantically while waiving his arms in the air has no relevance. Like I said earlier, you people would have given Bernie Goetz the chair.

287 posted on 05/29/2011 6:40:30 PM PDT by death2tyrants
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To: death2tyrants

I haven’t seen anyone defend the robbers, but some of you are definitely defending the Stolen Valor murderer with great passion and disregard for law and order.


288 posted on 05/29/2011 6:41:01 PM PDT by ansel12 ( JIM DEMINT "I believe [Palins] done more for the Republican Party than anyone since Ronald Reagan")
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To: death2tyrants

All the pharmacist had to do to make sure the perp didn’t do anything, was pull up a chair and keep the gun pointed at him. If he moved, BLAM.

The kid may have been black, but he still wouldn’t have been able to move faster than somebody who has a gun pointed at him and his finger on the trigger.


289 posted on 05/29/2011 6:44:58 PM PDT by Jonty30
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To: death2tyrants

You people? I don’t know who Bernie Goetz is.

And you don’t try people on possibilities, but on actions. The pharmacists actions warranted a trial and the jury warranted a conviction.


290 posted on 05/29/2011 6:47:59 PM PDT by Jonty30
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To: Jonty30
By the pharmacist’s own judgement, you can tell if he thought he was in danger.

No I can't. I don't have the ability to read minds.

Yes, if you kill a gang banger, you better be expecting payback

Maybe in an anarchist narco-state like Mexico, but not around here. Law enforcement can come down really hard on gangs, and the worthless gang members quickly turn on one another.

Unless, you have the ability to go to war with an entire gang, you better care a lot.

By this logic, innocent citizens should let gang members do whatever they want, because the gang might retaliate otherwise.

291 posted on 05/29/2011 6:48:32 PM PDT by death2tyrants
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To: death2tyrants

You have the ability to make an approximate guess, based on another’s actions. Psychologists have noted humans are quite good at that. Chimps aren’t.

Are you a chimp?

Sure. The lae comes down hard on gang members, unless they are laying prone and unconcious, then the law is helpless.

Understood.

No. You don’t let gangs do what they want, but you don’t discount them either.


292 posted on 05/29/2011 6:52:51 PM PDT by Jonty30
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To: Jonty30
You have the ability to make an approximate guess

That's what I thought. Rather than reaching a verdict based solely on facts, you'd reach a verdict based on your own guess work.

Are you a chimp?

You're not very good at this, are you?

293 posted on 05/29/2011 6:58:48 PM PDT by death2tyrants
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To: Jonty30
I am saying that you cannot kill somebody who is incapacitated and you cannot shoot them in the back either.

In Texas you can.

Before you attempt to argue read the following:

This text is from the 1999 Texas Penal Code. For a more current version of this provision see the FastLaws Texas Penal Code . Sec. 9.42. DEADLY FORCE TO PROTECT PROPERTY. A person is justified in using deadly force against another to protect land or tangible, movable property:
(1) if he would be justified in using force against the other under Section 9.41; and
(2) when and to the degree he reasonably believes the deadly force is immediately necessary:
(A) to prevent the other's imminent commission of arson, burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, theft during the nighttime, or criminal mischief during the nighttime; or
(B) to prevent the other who is fleeing immediately after committing burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, or theft during the nighttime from escaping with the property; and
(3) he reasonably believes that:
(A) the land or property cannot be protected or recovered by any other means; or
(B) the use of force other than deadly force to protect or recover the land or property would expose the actor or another to a substantial risk of death or serious bodily injury.

Mash here.

294 posted on 05/29/2011 7:00:50 PM PDT by Eaker (The problem with the internet, you're never sure of the accuracy of the quotes. Abraham Lincoln '65)
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To: death2tyrants

Nothing, not even DNA, is an absolute fact.

If you need absolute certainty, you could never convict anybody of any crime. Ever.

You have to fo the best you can do and the video of the pharmacist standing over the downed thug, shooting him from less than a two foot difference, with zero evidence the thug was able to move away, is pretty certain evidence to me.


295 posted on 05/29/2011 7:03:43 PM PDT by Jonty30
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To: Eaker

Doesn’t say anything about being incapacitated.


296 posted on 05/29/2011 7:06:47 PM PDT by Jonty30
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To: Eaker
In Texas you can.

Had the incident involving the pharmacist and thug happened here in Texas rather than Oklahoma, what do you think the verdict would have been?

297 posted on 05/29/2011 7:15:54 PM PDT by re_nortex (DP...that's what I like about Texas.)
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To: Jonty30
(2) when and to the degree he reasonably believes the deadly force is immediately necessary:

Right here.

298 posted on 05/29/2011 7:17:17 PM PDT by Eaker (The problem with the internet, you're never sure of the accuracy of the quotes. Abraham Lincoln '65)
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To: death2tyrants

It would seem the jury did determine that he wasn’t going to regain his composure and shoot the pharmacist. So far as I know the only witness the defendant called was an ME who said the robber “might” have been dead after the first shot. They could have argued this case much better, but chose not to for a lesser charge.


299 posted on 05/29/2011 7:18:08 PM PDT by Mr. Blonde (You ever thought about being weird for a living?)
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To: re_nortex

I wasn’t on the jury and didn’t see the evidence so I cannot answer that.

I do know that I will shoot to stop a threat and I will stop shooting when I know that the threat is no longer a threat.


300 posted on 05/29/2011 7:21:44 PM PDT by Eaker (The problem with the internet, you're never sure of the accuracy of the quotes. Abraham Lincoln '65)
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