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In US Army, the beret is out and the cap is back
AFP via Yahoo! News ^ | 6/13/2011

Posted on 06/13/2011 6:19:19 PM PDT by cll

WASHINGTON (AFP) – The US Army is abandoning the beret, after a failed 10-year experiment.

The black beret, which proved deeply unpopular with American soldiers, will be replaced by a patrol cap for everyday wear, US Army spokesman Colonel Tom Collins said Monday.

The move came after outgoing Army chief of staff, General Martin Dempsey, asked the army's sergeant major "to go out and talk to soldiers across the force and see what was on their minds," Collins told AFP.

"One of the things that soldiers consistently brought up was the desire to wear the patrol cap as part of their duty uniform," he said.

The beret will still be part of the Army's dress uniform, but will no longer be worn in the field as soldiers complained that it was impractical, he said.

"It does not have a visor and doesn't shield the sun, doesn't absorb sweat well," Collins said.

One soldier put it more bluntly.

"I hate wearing a wet sock on my head," Chief Warrant Officer Mark Vino, at Joint Base Lewis-McChord in Washington state, told the Army Times. "Plus it makes head/skin break out."

(Excerpt) Read more at news.yahoo.com ...


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; Government
KEYWORDS: army; armyusarmy; beret; berets; china; fashion; raspberryberet; shinseki; shinsekisberets; shinseky; usarmy
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To: oldsicilian
I guess there’s no chance that they’ll bring the c—t cap back. I really liked that cap.

Er, I'm going out on a limb here, but would that be an "overseas cap"? My father was in the old Army Air Corps.

51 posted on 06/13/2011 7:38:13 PM PDT by SamuraiScot
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To: cll
In US Army, the beret is out and the cap is back

YES! Screw you, Hillary!

52 posted on 06/13/2011 7:38:59 PM PDT by Talisker (When you find a turtle on top of a fence post, you can be damn sure it didn't get there on its own.)
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To: SamuraiScot

The vulgar anatomical name for the cap was pretty universal among the enlisted lowlifes (of which I was one) during the Korean war days, but my dad went to France in 1918, and his guys called it the “Go to Hell Hat”. Never have found anyone else that remembered the name.


53 posted on 06/13/2011 7:42:05 PM PDT by 19th LA Inf
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To: 11Bush

LMAO!


54 posted on 06/13/2011 7:42:05 PM PDT by Yo-Yo (Is the /sarc tag really necessary?)
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To: mylife

Spent 8 weeks in the Brooklyn Ship Yards in the winter if ‘58-’59. Had to wear the old flathat ( Donald Duck hat). Everybody pissed and moaned trying to find theirs at the bottom of their seabags. But at the end of the 8 weeks when we went back to NORVA, nobody wanted to go back the the friggin’ beanie (dixie cup),


55 posted on 06/13/2011 7:44:54 PM PDT by Old Seadog (Always do a little more than is expected, and someday .....it will be expected.)
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To: oldsicilian
"I guess there’s no chance that they’ll bring the c—t cap back. I really liked that cap."

Nothing personal, but I hated that POS.

56 posted on 06/13/2011 7:45:16 PM PDT by Flag_This (Real presidents don't bow.)
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To: mylife

Spent 8 weeks in the Brooklyn Ship Yards in the winter if ‘58-’59. Had to wear the old flathat ( Donald Duck hat). Everybody pissed and moaned trying to find theirs at the bottom of their seabags. But at the end of the 8 weeks when we went back to NORVA, nobody wanted to go back the the friggin’ beanie (dixie cup),


57 posted on 06/13/2011 7:46:07 PM PDT by Old Seadog (Always do a little more than is expected, and someday .....it will be expected.)
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To: ansel12

I believe it was around 74 or 75. I was in the artillery (2/2 Arty, Fort Sill) at the time. We had red berets.


58 posted on 06/13/2011 7:49:35 PM PDT by FlingWingFlyer (When the going gets tough, the tough check themselves into "rehab".)
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To: 19th LA Inf

“...[M]y dad went to France in 1918, and his guys called it the “Go to Hell Hat”. Never have found anyone else that remembered the name.”

I remember the name. I used to try and get all the first hand recollections I could from WWI vets when young. Great men. Cheerful and fun loving, many of them, even in old age and declining health.

“You might forget the gas and shells, Parley-voo.
You might forget the gas and shells, Parley-voo.
You might forget the groans and yells
But you’ll never forget the mademoiselles,
Hinky, dinky, parley-voo.

Mademoiselle from Armentieres, Parley-voo?
Mademoiselle from Armentieres, Parley-voo?
Just blow your nose, and dry your tears,
We’ll all be back in a few short years,
Hinky, dinky, parley-voo.”

God bless our vets, then and now, dead and living, may He bless each and every one.


59 posted on 06/13/2011 7:51:10 PM PDT by Psalm 144 (Voodoo Republicans: Don't read their lips - watch their hands.)
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To: oldsicilian

That’s the same hat [p*ss cutter] under a different name.


60 posted on 06/13/2011 7:52:38 PM PDT by PzLdr ("The Emperor is not as forgiving as I am" - Darth Vader)
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To: cll

Too bad it took ten years for someone to ask real soldiers what they needed for everyday headgear.

Stupid, false anti-elitism was behind the beret. That never works.


61 posted on 06/13/2011 7:53:47 PM PDT by fightinJAG (I am sick of people adding their comments to titles in the title box. Thank you.)
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To: calex59

Yes, also known as the garrison cap.


62 posted on 06/13/2011 7:54:35 PM PDT by fightinJAG (I am sick of people adding their comments to titles in the title box. Thank you.)
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To: Flag_This
Nothing personal, but I hated that POS.

Same here. This is all good news here. The beret looks good in a dress uniform, FAR superior to the...you-know cap. It's just not pleasant at all to wear day-to-day. The PC is the way to go for everyday work.

63 posted on 06/13/2011 7:56:49 PM PDT by Future Snake Eater (Don't stop. Keep moving!)
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To: Liberty Valance

Those are even less practical. You need something you can basically fold up and put in the utility pocket on your thigh.


64 posted on 06/13/2011 7:57:27 PM PDT by fightinJAG (I am sick of people adding their comments to titles in the title box. Thank you.)
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To: Fred Hayek
The black beret in the past was for Ranger units.

The black beret was actually worn by Armored Cavalry units before the Rangers adopted it.

65 posted on 06/13/2011 7:58:45 PM PDT by Sarajevo (Avoid arguments with your wife about lifting the toilet seat by simply using the sink.)
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To: Dogbert41
Berets should be earned by jumping out of planes and eating snakes.

I never ate snakes. Does Opla count?

66 posted on 06/13/2011 8:04:52 PM PDT by Sarajevo (Avoid arguments with your wife about lifting the toilet seat by simply using the sink.)
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To: Sarajevo; Fred Hayek

The Rangers were wearing the black beret as early as 1951.


67 posted on 06/13/2011 8:10:36 PM PDT by ansel12 (Bachmann/Rollins/Romney=destruction for Bachmann, but it sure helps Romney. WHY?)
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To: oldsicilian

The c__t cap with the glider wings was the old Airborne hat, that and pants tucked into the spit shined jump boots was a pretty good look.


68 posted on 06/13/2011 8:13:25 PM PDT by ansel12 (Bachmann/Rollins/Romney=destruction for Bachmann, but it sure helps Romney. WHY?)
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To: ansel12
"The c__t cap with the glider wings was the old Airborne hat"

I thought they separated the jumpers from the "glider riders" with different insignia, but I guess it just depended...


69 posted on 06/13/2011 8:21:51 PM PDT by Flag_This (Real presidents don't bow.)
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To: cll

This has proven to be every bit as popular as Zumwalt’s Navy uniform experiments back in the 70’s were. The number one thing that Sailors wanted back was the Cracker Jack dress blues uniform, instead of the half-assed Air Force messcook uniforms old Elmo came up with...

At least the army didn’t go back to making the troops grease the hair with lard and powdering it with flour.....

Any other old salts out there still have a set of South China Sea Liberty cuff embroidered dragon patches for their Blues??

Did you have zippers put into your dress blues jumper in the PI??

How about in the 13 button pants??

Did you keep your Liberty Blues folded inside out under the mattress of your rack to make sure the creases stayed crisp??

What was sewn under the flap of your “Liberty Blues” jumper...??


70 posted on 06/13/2011 8:24:17 PM PDT by Bean Counter (Your what hurts??)
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To: cll

I wore a black beret (French style rather than military style) to work shortly after the Shinseky decision, announcing to co-workers that the General’s announcement included Navy retirees.


71 posted on 06/13/2011 8:26:49 PM PDT by jimfree (In 2012 Sarah Palin will have more quality executive experience than Barack Obama.)
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To: FlingWingFlyer

I was at Ft. Sill in 1972, with that red artillery ascot and a red beret, the dress uniform would look awfully bright.

Here is a mention of the period, and experiment that you are talking about.

“In addition, after HQDA encouraged the unofficial use of morale-enhancing headgear in 1973,”


72 posted on 06/13/2011 8:30:30 PM PDT by ansel12 (Bachmann/Rollins/Romney=destruction for Bachmann, but it sure helps Romney. WHY?)
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To: Flag_This

I don’t remember which one we were using in 1972, maybe some of the other guys do.


73 posted on 06/13/2011 8:33:21 PM PDT by ansel12 (Bachmann/Rollins/Romney=destruction for Bachmann, but it sure helps Romney. WHY?)
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To: cll

When I was in the Army they issued us fatigue caps that were soft and shapeless. If you tried to fall out wearing one you would get chewed out and written up for being out of Uniform. I pointed out that it was issue so how could we be out of Uniform and was told to shut up and do what I was told. We had to buy the ones we actually wore at the PX, they were blocked and looked a lot nicer than the issue ones , very similar to your picture but not camo. At any rate I do think they are much better than a beret.


74 posted on 06/13/2011 8:37:32 PM PDT by calex59
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To: cll

It was a dumb stupid ignorant ridiculous ideal from day one, and that applies to the fool that thought it up.


75 posted on 06/13/2011 8:46:27 PM PDT by org.whodat
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To: ansel12

I forgot all about that dang ascot. LOL! Wow! What a pain that thing was.


76 posted on 06/13/2011 8:47:36 PM PDT by FlingWingFlyer (When the going gets tough, the tough check themselves into "rehab".)
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To: Liberty Valance
The army helicopter boys still wear that hat.
77 posted on 06/13/2011 8:48:22 PM PDT by org.whodat
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To: cll

Thank God!!! Clinton’s passion for the very gay beret was about as horrible a move as he ever made.

It looked stupid and made our fine soldiers look stupider!!!


78 posted on 06/13/2011 8:51:10 PM PDT by DustyMoment (Go green - recycle Congress in 2012!!)
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To: Old Seadog

Holy Crap! I was born that spring.
Generations of sailors hated that stupid hat!


79 posted on 06/13/2011 8:52:03 PM PDT by mylife
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To: ansel12; FlingWingFlyer
The beret will be back in 10 years. It failed back in the 70s when we were all required to wear a beret of your branch colors.

I left the Army at the end of 1973, and I was not aware of an army wide Beret policy, what years was it?

I was in the Marine Corps from 73 to 79 and we never had a beret. We had the barracks cover, garrison cover and the utility cover and that was it.

80 posted on 06/13/2011 8:52:12 PM PDT by AlaskaErik (I served and protected my country for 31 years. Progressives spent that time trying to destroy it.)
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To: Bean Counter

I was in the Air Force in 1960. After basic, I was assigned to Goodfellow AFB at San Angelo, TX, for radio school. We had ten man classes, five airmen and five sailors. While in school, the airmen wore 505 (khakis) and the sailors wore the white uniform with the flap (undress uniform?). Then both services switched to blues on 15 Oct. The sailors had those uniforms to which you referred, with the dragons on the reverse of the cuffs, even though none of them had ever been overseas before. It was bad enough for airmen, soldiers and Marines having to travel wearing Class As, but those Navy uniforms struck me as being awfully uncomfortable during the summer. I spent a lot of time at the flight line at Clark Air Base in the PI, and saw a lot of sailors passing through, wearing those dress blues when it was about 95 out with a humidity to match.


81 posted on 06/13/2011 8:56:45 PM PDT by Ax
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To: FlingWingFlyer

An ascot... until tonight I had forgotten that I used to wear an ascot during a time in my life, weird...


82 posted on 06/13/2011 9:01:00 PM PDT by ansel12 (Bachmann/Rollins/Romney=destruction for Bachmann, but it sure helps Romney. WHY?)
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To: cll
poster child for why berets should be EARNED!!! not handed out...

83 posted on 06/13/2011 9:05:55 PM PDT by Chode (American Hedonist - *DTOM* -ww- NO Pity for the LAZY)
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To: Leroy S. Mort

***I believe a pisscutter is a garrison cap (or flight cap to us zoomies).***

The same as a c**t cap? I never wore one as I only wore a fatigue cap, or the regulation dress cap.


84 posted on 06/13/2011 9:08:40 PM PDT by Ruy Dias de Bivar (Click my name. See my home page, if you dare! NEW PHOTOS!)
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To: laweeks
"‘Bout time . . . used to be worn only by Airborne and Special Forces . . . looks weird on the rest of the regular army"

When I got my maroon beret and then my black beret it was pretty special. I always resented it when it when it became the standard uniform for cooks and clerk typists.

85 posted on 06/13/2011 9:11:23 PM PDT by Natural Law (For God so loved the world He did not send a book.)
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To: cll
Good move.

They should go back to the Ridgeway style caps, not the baseball caps.

86 posted on 06/13/2011 9:12:44 PM PDT by smokingfrog ( sleep with one eye open ( <o> ---)
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To: Old Seadog

I dumped all those stupid hats ages ago.
And most of the uniforms.

I kept a summer and winter set of crackerjacks and all of my Submarine “poopy suits”

Those coveralls are actually useful.
Any old Texas farmer could tell you, that they have room for tools, smokes, a flashlight and a zippo lighter.
To bad we could only wear them on the sub pier or underway.

All the uniforms the Navy had were worthless from a practical working standpoint.

Even the dungaree working uniform was worthless.


87 posted on 06/13/2011 9:15:34 PM PDT by mylife
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To: org.whodat
Only if they're Cav I hope!...(I have one I wear 3 times a yr...Memorial day, 4th of July and when I go to my Army reunion
88 posted on 06/13/2011 9:16:52 PM PDT by M-cubed
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To: cll

I like the choo, choo, hat. Is that the Marine type?


89 posted on 06/13/2011 9:17:01 PM PDT by headstamp 2 (We live two lives, the life we learn and the life we live with after that.)
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To: ansel12

Source - Army.mil

Black Beret. The tradition of wearing black berets began with armored units. In 1924 the British Royal Tank Regiment adopted the first modern military beret, based on the Scottish highland bonnet and French Bretonne beret. The regiment selected the headgear for its practicality—brimless for use with armored vehicle fire control sights and black to hide grease stains.

In the US Army, HQDA policy from 1973 through 1979 permitted local commanders to encourage morale-enhancing distinctions, and Armor and Armored Cavalry personnel wore black berets as distinctive headgear until CSA Bernard W. Rogers banned all such unofficial headgear in 1979. Rangers received authorization through AR 670-5, Uniform and Insignia, 30 January 1975, to wear black berets.

Previously, locally authorized black berets had been worn briefly by the 10th Ranger Company (Airborne), 45th Infantry Division, during the Korean War before their movement to Korea; Company F (LRP), 52d Infantry, 1st Infantry Division, in 1967 in the Republic of Vietnam; Company H (Ranger), 75th Infantry, 1st Cavalry Division, in 1970 in the Republic of Vietnam; and Company N (Ranger), 75th Infantry, 173d Airborne Brigade, in 1971 in the Republic of Vietnam.

Brown Beret. While HQDA’s morale-enhancing order was in force from 1973 to 1979, there was a proliferation of berets, in a rainbow of hues. In Alaska the 172d Infantry Brigade adopted an olive or brown beret. Members of the brigades 1/60th Infantry wore their brown beret with a light blue flash insignia. It was soon dropped when the Army standardized headgear policy in 1979 to limit beret wear to Special Forces, Airborne, and Ranger units.


90 posted on 06/13/2011 9:17:45 PM PDT by Kozel89
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To: Notwithstanding

Bring back the “Ridgeway”.


91 posted on 06/13/2011 9:19:05 PM PDT by headstamp 2 (We live two lives, the life we learn and the life we live with after that.)
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To: Kozel89

That brown beret makes it look like you have a cow pie on your head.


92 posted on 06/13/2011 9:24:07 PM PDT by smokingfrog ( sleep with one eye open ( <o> ---)
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To: Ax

yep...very often the winter blues uniform was the last thing you wanted to be wearing when you got off the plane at Clark AFB...

And yes, those un-dress whites were almost as big of a PITA as the dress whites where. What made even less sense was attempting to own a pair of Corfam dress inspection shoes in a flight-deck non-skid environment. One mis-step, and those $40 shoes looked like you tried to shine them with a brick...


93 posted on 06/13/2011 9:25:13 PM PDT by Bean Counter (Your what hurts??)
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To: Old Seadog

I think Major Kong was onto something in Dr Strangelove.

Coveralls and a cowboy hat.

Plus that dang bugout kit. “Heck, a feller could have a pretty good weekend in Vegas with all that”


94 posted on 06/13/2011 9:28:14 PM PDT by mylife
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To: mylife

Yeah, but you gotta have the Dixie cup with the blue band to let the ladies on the beach know about the middies’, ahem, cough, cough, cough....physical hygiene problems...

/sarc


95 posted on 06/13/2011 9:36:34 PM PDT by BwanaNdege (For those who have fought for it, Life bears a savor the protected will never know.)
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To: M-cubed

1st of the 9th


96 posted on 06/13/2011 9:56:14 PM PDT by Dedbone
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To: omega4179
The Beret should have been earned, not issued

Bah! The beret is for gays and french"men". I'm glad I got out before I ever had to wear one.

97 posted on 06/13/2011 10:01:45 PM PDT by rivercat (Typed on my OSX-free MBP! Windows 7 (SP1) FTW!)
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To: OL Hickory
Iraq 2005...Bronze stars went to E7 and above...given out like PEZ candy!

They did the same thing in Somalia and Desert Storm. Nothing new.

98 posted on 06/13/2011 10:03:46 PM PDT by rivercat (Typed on my OSX-free MBP! Windows 7 (SP1) FTW!)
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To: Bean Counter

All I can tell you is my present fly says “The best there is” on the inside. LoL

To bad I’m the only one that has read it LoL


99 posted on 06/13/2011 10:04:09 PM PDT by mylife
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To: M-cubed

Yeah, no Stetsons for those that haven’t done a “spur ride”! If you ain’t Cav, you ain’t ....!


100 posted on 06/13/2011 10:08:13 PM PDT by rivercat (Typed on my OSX-free MBP! Windows 7 (SP1) FTW!)
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