Posted on 06/14/2011 7:20:09 AM PDT by US Navy Vet
I would, however, like to do an experiment in which small children are not allowed to have a TV used as a babysitter.
Rapid fire input like that becomes the norm and a need to focus for an extended period for a mental reward such as learning becomes very difficult (my hypothesis).
It is a very delicate matter for a principal (which is the first line) to speak to parents about something being wrong with their child, and they do so usually only after convening a board of teachers and psych/social worker experts to observe and document the child's behaviors (it's called CYA) It is very delicate to suggest that a child who disrupts class constantly, uses pencils to hurt himself an others, rocks in his chair, and spins in a corner ... and on who all available classroom mamagement techniques have been tried, be “evaluated” by educational professionals much less doctors. If schools suggest testing for learning disabilities they may find themselves on the hook to do it, which is expensive. If a kid needs an IEP, it is expensive, the parent must be involved at every step, the paperwork is onerous.
Go volunteer sometime at the local elementary school and try your theories on kids who are untreated and undiagnosed because their parents are in denial. Maybe the teachers never considered your advice that they just need a little “discipline”. There is a need for many one-on-one aides to help these kids or just to remove them from the classroom so the others can be taught
Every summer we had about ten neighborhood kids on our street who during the school year differed greatly based on behavior, scholarly leanings, family structure, and attitudes while getting by. Once summer came, a new order would form based on new rules.
We all had bikes and we would be out on the street by nine in the morning. We would ride to wherever we knew we could go swimming, usually packing a lunch or snack. Fishing might be on the schedule if the swimming spot was a local creek or pond. We rode our bikes a startling 40 miles a day on average. We only discovered this once one of us got a speedometer on their Stingray. It was a rule to be home by 5PM, to eat dinner. The kids with problem households were "friends over for dinner", without asking or discussion.
After dinner, kick the can, baseball, tree climbing, or other activity was the norm. Around 10PM, there would be an outdoor camp-out with a cheap old tent in someones yard. At night it would thunderstorm and we'd end up in someone's basement for the duration.
The routine would start all over again, with any kid's doctor appointment, visiting relative, or undone chore throwing a wrench into the works. We would have to wait for the missing kid. For some reason we never considered abandoning them.
Eventually summer would end, and the group would slowly develop division as school had it's effect on our brothers. By October, we greeted each other with nothing more than a nod. It was like parallel universes.
Young boys are like teams of horses. If you don't run them hard every day they'll tear the barn apart(unless you medicate them).
There is a doctor from Hopkins (I can’t remember his name right now) who has written books detailing his feelings that television is a major contributor now over television in the past. I am paraphrasing this but he has done research with respect to color and how FAST the images flash with cartoons etc.. now vs the old cartoons (like the road runner etc.. the ones we grew up with). His premise is that it affects the brain of young children and doesn’t believe they should watch it at all OR very limited and their viewing is limited as well. (I’ll find the name and send it to you!)
the problem with physiological exams is many families would prefer behavioral observation and professinal assessment of those behaviors to diagnose, rather than putting their kid through a brain scan or other more intrusive tests to detect organic abnormality
Excellent analogy and summation - I will probably steal this from you. As a teacher, I can use it.
“I had a teacher try to pin ADD on my youngest”.
I had a second grade teacher send me horrible comments concerning my daughter. She couldn’t stop talking, fidgeting etc... I scolded her over and over. Finally, I sent two friends on “missions”. They volunteered at the school and sat outside the classroom and watched. One for thirty minutes, the other for forty minutes on separate days. I wanted their true opinions. I also signed in to volunteer and snuck to the classroom to watch. NOTHING! She just sat there, didn’t talk or fidget and only raised her hand to answer a question. THEN, I learned that this teacher is the “one” to “evaluate” kids and loads of parents have their kids seen by specialists. What I couldn’t figure out is this: how can a behavior not be seen at home or anywhere else prior to second grade? I finally told this teacher that I think her issue with my daughter was more of a “personality conflict” and that her opinion was meaningless. My daughter’s third grade teacher told me that she read the stuff mentioned by the second grade teacher and NEVER saw one indication in third grade. So, yes, many teachers are either burned out or want kids to act all alike and place “warning labels” on them.
I’m stumped too, it is getting so I don’t know a family who does not have, or know well, another child with autism or aspbergers or some variation
ADD/ADHD and depression seem almost garden variety normal
and these are families who eat well, do sports, seek activities and enrichment for their kids...
Sure some of it is curriculum and teaching technique and classoom boredom, but sheesh.
I have a child with severe problems traceable to prenatal substance abuse by his birth mother. Spent $2K ot get a diagnosis. Now the question is- what do we do about it? at is in his future? For now meds helps him a lot, not all the way. Is this a permanent solution?
I don’t now. We take it day by day.
But dismissive comments by people who haven’t lived with this or gotten involved to see for themslves - set me off. LOL!
ADHD is a list of behaviors that mostly annoy adults and teachers. The list was decided upon in a committee. There are no medical tests, no blood profile, no brain scans that can definitely be identified. Children are generally identified using the Conner’s Rating Scale which rates kids on how annoying and lack of follow through that they have. Rater reliability on the Conner’s is horrid, not to mention kids are rated by the same adults who they annoy and are ineffective with them. It is fascinating that among wards of the state ADHD identification is almost universal. Interesting that one populaton has such a high incidence rate. Couple in that parents get disability payments for their adhd “disabled” kid and does any wonder why the rise in cases?
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I have a lot of experience with this topic and both of my kids have taken medication for it at one time or another though I don't think they necessarily fit the diagnosis.
It is not true that all medication will only help if they are "truly" ADHD. My son's grades improved dramatically when he started medication and I have seen many similar cases where the subject did not demonstrate clear symptoms.
I know that many will disagree, but for me it boils down to whether it is worthwhile to take meds if it makes the difference between being an A/B student rather than a C/D student. I have seen this type of result in many (but not all) cases and for me the result justifies the use of the medication as long as the student is tolerating it well.
It is very easy to find a doctor who will prescribe ADHD medication as many feel that it is OK to "give it a try". There are other MD's who are more strict about prescribing.
I think it's ok for the school to "suggest" a medical evaluation, but parents should not be coerced.
Bingo. My youngest daughter was diagnosed with ADHD by a psychiatrist as well. She’s not “unruly”. She’s a great kid. She just can’t focus at all when we give her stuff to do. One set of instructions at a time and get’s lost from A to B. Time to leave and one of her shoes is in the kitchen one is in her bedroom upstairs... She’s smart as hell (130+ IQ) and reads on an 8th grade level despite being in 2nd grade. The ADHD medication helps her focus and act “normal”. A whole lot of the comments on this thread are pure ignorance.
I was on 20mg Ritlain 2x a day for 5 years(1968-1972) and I have NEVER had “serious substance abuse problems”.
There are multiple studies of ADHD brain MRI’s compared to non-ADHD brains and the differences.
One of my best friend’s has a son with Aspergers. To be honest, you could “see” an issue when he was very little. My friend did everything in the world to “fix” him. She could have beaten him all day and it wouldn’t have made a bit of difference (except destroy any sort of dignity or self esteem he had). After years of medications, he showed improvement in 8th grade and they lowered the meds. He is now a sophomore in high school and doesn’t take anything but regular vitamins. With your situation, I am sure that prenatal exposure to drugs does cause lifelong issues. God bless and prayers for your child. It is a day by day handling (that same phrase was told to me by my girlfriend... she didn’t look till next week but dealt day by day). It is a difficult road!
I grew up in a middle class setting in the 1950’s and never ran into kids that needed drugs to behave. Our ancestors raised kids who were self-controlled, won wars, and advanced science without the benefit of psychiatric drugs. What has happened to this society?
I don’t wish to be contradictory but the so called brain scan studies (zametikin spelling?) studies were so seriously flawed as to be laughable. No control groups, sample sizes of 15 kids, kids taken off ritalin days prior to the P.E.T. scan add up to nothing. No subsequent tests/scans have ever relocated these findings.
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It's all about employment for quacks and profit for drug companies.
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